wahh, another debate? hahahahaha

albnok: i wont deniel that, generally, it takes perhaps 10 years of photography experience for a person to Mature to compose or to see a great picture. (well, there are some born genius... or artist that catches up really quick, that they took less then a year to learn what general ppl learn in 10 years)

the problem here, in LYN's Sony thread, most of the people here, are partly Lazy, and New. Lazy as, they never bother to do their homework or research... New as, well, PNS users.

like u said, Painters can Paint better... because they see the result before painting (compose before shoot), while many photographers, they... shoot then expect result (shoot then crop, or PP, or never bother). they should learn to be like painters. but in the end, human nowaday, are eager, when once they put thier view through the OVF, they forget everything and shoot as much as they can, trying to hit a bird with some stones.

braindead_freak: good point there. what justified them is, their works, is accepted and praise by the people. we do not need to set a borderline of who is who. or use words to differentiate a machine with lens and a painter or photographer. a good photo is a good photo. a bad one, with no exception, is a bad one. when a so called great photographer shoot nonsense trying to Express himself and it didnt work out, it doesnt mean that the viewer dont understand him, it could be just plainly that, he tried to express himself but fail in the wrong way.

This post has been edited by ieR: Feb 15 2010, 03:16 AM

about wedding photog .. I still remember one of my friends who criticized it because of its "fakeness"
since the couple are instructed to do this and that kinda of posing and action which sometime will not ever happen
for candid shoot... just as he hate model shooting
But I guess...when it comes to business.. people just following what their customer want..

Lets just say that everyone has their own beginning
Newbie with new camera for sure will shoot like no tomorrow and post it for better improvement and comment
maybe some of them might start getting bored and stop after certain period ... Or just keep shooting without learning anything


Currently I`m not impress with my shot (mostly) and stuck on how to improve .. (really mood swing with these hobby) Maybe I just don't know what to shoot...(or maybe I`m just too sleepy and cannot think properly at 3.35 am.. )

This post has been edited by Ksano: Feb 15 2010, 03:35 AM

ksano:

wedding - there is many works to be done, request to be understand and meet.

u see, sometimes, or most of the time, the customer doesnt know what they wan. they might wan something, something in their mind, but no way to express it. some wanted the louispang's way, but not willing to pay him for the job,... so when a photographer pick up the job... he iether be proactive, or passive shooter. to make composition, or to go with the flow (sometimes, the flow are pretty boring and plain)

for me, a wedding shooter is not just about showing the best sweetest skillful photo u can snap. some people can shoot the table and chair that looks like god-send chair and table... but how much the couple would smile over those photo? to me, it's all about showing the couple, what happened that day. because during that day, so much thing to deal, so much to worry, so much to do, both bride and groom's mind is just a piece of white blank... they wouldnt know what happened, until, they see the photo. so it's always a mixture of candid and art. how people always say, photo is a frozen memory.

if a couple pay u just because they wanted Siti Nurhaliza's grand wedding alike shot... might as well ask them to pay actors to play the wedding...

One of my local heroes for street photography is this dude:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vignesbalasingam/

And of course this dudette, who is going to give a talk at Galeri Petronas on the 28th of February 2010, 2-3pm:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/szetooweiwen/

braindead_fr3ak: What is the small square white book?

And yeah it's quite sad to see people go for typical cliches. Wah here's my ROL (Ray Of Light) shot! Here's my moon shot! Here's my sunset shot! Here's my HDR! What you do, I also try to do!

I'm not against visually appealing pictures. However, pictures can have a purpose, e.g.:

Food photography - promotes awareness of a restaurant!
Gig photography - promotes a band, or a band can use that as profile pictures.

I hope your thoughtful photography is contagious.

ieR: LOL are you saying I failed (not that I perasan the first bit, just asking.)

I usually show my clients know what my style is (which is not much editing, just vivid color) and I make sure they understand that if they want Kukubesi or what, they should hire Kukubesi. In a way it's a good way to indemnify yourself in case they ask why your style so different.

And yeah man, the god-send chair and table LOL! What we photographers go nuts over (WAAAHHH bokeh!) the subject may not like (eee why you make me look fat?)

ahmike89: Earlier shots are a bit blue-green-ish. Suggest warmth to add pop to the prawns!

Ksano: Looking at your Flickr, I'm quite impressed that you go one shot at a time.

This post has been edited by albnok: Feb 15 2010, 04:36 AM

albert, NO... i do not mean u failed. its just, when a bad picture, is bad picture(i am pretty sure u know what i mean), newbie always 'tried' to imitate the pro by duplicating the idea but without the composition. or so called, cincai shoot... i am very sien when people post a pic of cincai shoot, then ask for comment, that is a moving target for Fatman.

when u first post the pic, i felt is a very normal compo, and knowing ur style of 'doing review' i at first thought u were trying to show 50mm's DOF on FF. until u mention there is other meaning, i recalled the wording on the board, until i figure, (and u did a good job in, u wanted people to see what u wan them to see) you compose missing the common word 'jangan' but the 2 nails on the board makes it really difficult to know there is more above.

well, albert, perhaps KL and my town are a little diff, ppl here dont know what they wan. i guess KL ppl has very high expectation. my town, ppl here need education of what they can get out of great photographers. people in my town only know louis pang... that is the only name ever will u hear among couple that going to get married =.=......

regard of bokeh, i really really cant stand one of my friend... he always wanted max bokeh, sometimes until the BG is soooo blur, (example, the bride in foreground, while groom in background), i dont even know the pic is art of the 2 couple until he told me the background is the groom.... (in my head, WTF) at least, give some details of the BG/groom that the groom is there... not the broom...

and i do sometimes find my friend (the couple) some are really sensitive to 'fat' when they are just fine... or even little imperfect on their skin, they go screaming 'delete it delete it' lucky they are my friends... if clients, that mean i have to OT to PP the photoes >.<

ohya, recently, a friend (himself is photographer and company's photography), his company had a company dinner, the company asked him not to shoot but to just enjoy the dinner, they will hire a studio photographer... when they gotten the picture few days later... he was really mad at this photographer... the photographer end up shooting the stage with the backdrop (background) super sharp, but the subject infront are all out of focus, like when they gave awards to the employee etc, they are blur!(it seem like the photographer didnt know how to use the AF point selection?) he wanted to complain to the studio, is there anything he can actually do bout in legally? sue them? (worst thing is when he approach the photographer(who didnt know my friend is a photographer too) claimed that, the photo is 12.3MP, when u develop it to 4R, u wont see the diff... call that professional!

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Added on February 15, 2010, 5:36 ambtw albert, why are u up at 4 in the morning? ehehehehe

what do u think of this? btw, i am planning to sell of this lens... to fund other lens/body


This post has been edited by ieR: Feb 15 2010, 05:46 AM

morning everyone...

ieR: want to sell off ur 18-250?? how much?

This post has been edited by akumirul: Feb 15 2010, 09:04 AM

albert :

..the little white book?..why its my darling a700 manual of course!

another point of debate... how does a beginer (in photog) validate his claims to thoughtfullness?..... isnt he expected to be able to produce the STANDARD BENCHMARK ( eg : hdr, bokeh, etc etc)....

would the "SENIOR" and "EXPERIENCED" shoot him down for claiming to express what they cannot or WOULD not perceive? of for not toeing the line?(gladly this is not the case in alphanatics...where our seniors are actually very very very helpful...kudos tu u guys who help and guide those forming their first footsteps in this world)...


i for one have been shooting events...but at customers request(mostly) all they want is the cliche shots....creative freedom is usually limited UNTIL you can claim to be AN EXPERIENCED PRO....then anything you shoot is excepted as "art"...even when sometimes its crap...(i have seen a "pro" photog who charged 20k for 4 days of shooting ....then seen is results...which are not thought provoking...this i can understand as it was a housing development shoot, but the photos were very average and given the same equipment, i can easily reproduce what he did....possibly without even looking at HIS results).....what justifies his claims to pro ness?

of course this is also debatable on behalf of that photog. His speciality might not be product shots, but as u know, customers think 1 pro photog can do EVERYTHING like a pro, landscape, portrait, lighting..when most of the time...this is just not the case...


Thus i believe , most noobies are FORCED into being that PNS shooter who has great gear but nothing much developed behind those eyes...for those who dont even bother...well...i wont bother explaining...


Today i leave to celebrate CNY with my friends and family....i shall be bringing along my trusty slr...not just to take pictures....but to try to "capture" chinese new year in a way that no one can expect......it shall be my challenge....I have a fondness for human expression....


KSANO : very interesting set of pictures you have....!


IER : expectation = what YOU benchmark for yourself...its easy to be lax if everyone around you is lax-er..... but isnt that one of our traditional failings... where with the blind, the one eyed is the king...... is that satisfactory.......?

i believe the trick to turning pro...is to be able to COSISTENTLY produce beautiful pictures THAT HAVE deep meaning in different situations and places..... your photog that ur friends company hired...sounds like sumone who "just shoots to be known as a photog/earn some money"....the saddest type of photographer...

I have been contemplating on what you said the earlier day when we had a chat....the WB and the restaurant and FG and BG, the more i think of it..the more it makes sense...and then something clicked......!!..what if...we used coloured filters?...hmmmmmmmmmm....im sure there are right?

guys,

I want to ask you about indoor shooting with flash. Look at this picture (credit to saiful nang).



My question is, how do I get the whole picture is equally expose (at least 'see-able' background) like picture above? Most of my indoor shooting will get dark background but object is correct exposure. How do I get both of them are equally same exposure?

I assume use high ISO and slower shutter would help, am I right? Any other tips?

ieR : When you want to sell your prime or your tamron?

I'm a noob in DSLR but what I know is you have to use "Slow-sync flash".

I think ISO and Aperture DO play important part to produce these kinda of picture..

I dont remember much.. but I still remember 6-10 version before these... some one post a youtube link about flash and ISO aperture effect...

bigger aperture (f2.8) will mostly allow you to take get the backround well exposed to while smaller well lead to darker background...

and yeah ISO also effects the exposure of background I guess.. lower iso tend to darken the background...

since we play with flash... I guess we can't control shutter speed very much... so ISO and aperture is the key

Correct me if I`m wrong

All 3 basic element(shutter speed, aperture, ISO) you can do adjustment to allow more ambient light to enter your camera sensor.

Just try around and get your desire setting.

lol, alright.
In this case, I would say that, the wall doesn't give much impression. It's like a lil' 'empty' to me.

f4.5, 1/40s, 150mm/ 1600iso

CnC please.

This post has been edited by Mikeshashimi: Feb 15 2010, 11:15 AM

there are very technical explaination if u would like to listen.

standard by flash, the min shutter u will get is 1/60. let say the background is 2 stop under at 1/60 F5.6 iso400. (kitlens + A300 (iso400limit))

your subject will always lit up to 0ev metering (properly expose) by the flash. now, knowing all of above setting, the question is, how to you make the background expose the same?(as the subject?)

answer is simple, increase 2stop of exposure, but how?

1. Shutter Speed, by slowing down the shutter, u will have more light gain, 2 stop is by decreasing ur speed to1/15 from 1/60, which u might not wan to use it, as it causes blur from handshake if u are zooming at 100mm.

2. Sensitivity of ISO, by pumping to iso1600 from iso400 (that's 2 stop) u'll gain exactly what u need, but problem is, some of us are using older model where, iso400 is as far as they willing to go.

3. Aperture (Ksano you're right), increase the aperture by 2 stop, F5.6 to F2.8, u get more light travel into the lens/sensor, hence u will get brighter background, but as well as bokeh, if bokeh is what u wanted, then its okay, if it is not.... another story.

4. and u can mix 1 and 2 and 3 together, say shutterspeed at 1/40, iso800, at F5, u still gain 2 stop. that is why, Pro use manual, using each of the setting above to compensate of each weaknesses.

tamron? dont think will sell, unless sigma's 17-70 becomes F2.8 and it's as sharp as tamron.

slow sync flash = slow shutter. its just a auto-mode used to overwrite the pre program of shutter in P/A mode.

braindead_freak: true true, like i mention, a good photographer is justified by their works being accepted and praise by the people. definitely my friend's hired 'studio photographer' are not a good one. btw, let me tell u my style (tips) on my tammy. i usually shoot at F4 for the sharpness, constant 1/60 (manual) so even when i zoom to 50mm (supposely 1/80) but i will still get the constant same exposure of the BG with 1/60) and iso pump to 800 is i have to...sometimes iso400 is enough(your A700 can easily goes up to iso16). the rest, flash will do the job. to me, photographS should be consistent too.

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Added on February 15, 2010, 11:35 amnot striking enough, >.< if only u have brought a tripod

This post has been edited by ieR: Feb 15 2010, 11:40 AM

Spam from Bali~

wow, i was missing for like a day and a half, and super debate happens... very intriguing and provoking conversation. now THIS is what i expect to happen more often in forums like these. ieR, that studio photog, if me, i'd strangle him till he pays back at least half of what he's paid if not all.

@ieR: i did bring a tripod along but the lanterns were kind of high off the ground and i did took some shots with a tripod and slow exposure but it turned out too bright and not the natural colours.

Thanks abnolk for advice

iER: Go for 18250. my favorite lens...

LOL... welcome to the business world... he will, definitely defends him for whatever cause, as long he have his money... lucky he never mention 'my other client dont mind eh' if me, i straight go his studio slap him in the face. LOL.

hehehe, time to learn manual~~ u could have use manual and try every 1/3 stop down to find the color u like. and also, the lcd on the body, is only use to see framing, u have to by heart, knows the exposure and color that ur camera will comes out with, because the LCD itself lacks the color (hardwarely) to produce what u really would expect on ur PC LCD/CRT.

i plan to sell it, i have too much lens sleeping in drybox... i never use 18250 when i somehow found i liked the kitlens more @.@ then replace with 50mm for 3 month, then now uses tammy and fisheye all the time, the rest of the 4 lens (18250, 1870(plan to go with body if i ever sell the body), 55200 until 70200G approved by gf, and 50mm)


ok guys, i going out to pai nian~ hehehe, gong hee, gong hee to everyone who celebrates, and happy hols for those are not~ have a nice day

consistent on the exposure u mean ?
I am still figuring why my exposure is not consistent when i shoot a few frame with the manual setting (no change in the setting), no change is the lighting. The time between 2 shoot is more than 5s which is longer than my F58 refresh time (4s).