Honestly, i dont quite get ur anology there.
Yes, it's an investment. Yes, there are things which are out of the managers' control. But how do they justify gobbling up 5.5% of ur investment n some annual fees without having to be responsible for anything?
We are paying this amaunt because we believe that these company can AT LEAST perform on par with the benchmarks. If that is TOO much to ask, i dont think they have the right to our 5.5%.

I got the 3-Yr annualised 6.xx% from the monthly report that PM send to me.

But the actual mathematical formula is quite easy:

Annualised return = [[Dividend received + End period NAV - Begin period NAV]/Begin Period NAV]^1/n -1 where n = periods (can be day, month or year)

Since I do not have the raw data of your fund, I will just based on the report supplied by PM.

You can calculate the annualised rtn using the above formula.

Xuzen

Are you sure the annualized return is so high when arithmetic return is only 1.9. None of the calculators can back it up

here's a link to some calculators below
http://www.gummy-stuff.org/petrovski.htm
http://www.dinkytown.net/java/AnnualReturn.html
http://www.money-zine.com/Calculators/Inve...ent-Calculator/

This post has been edited by idunnolol: Jul 3 2010, 04:47 PM

perhaps you didn't include the dividends but only calculated the price difference?

Will it make a difference

Last last time i have 5.1k inside. Then now i only have 5.2k AFTER all my dividends are reinvested back to the fund. So now my money only grew 100 right?

Did you minus the 5.5% charge? If Zuxen's calculation is correct, 6.XX% - 5.5%, then you only get whats remaining. That shows you how expensive Malaysia's UT charges are.

Think should be. I am not that sure anyway because that 5.1k figure is what i got from telephone conversation

The risk of the fund is fully borne by units trust investors. Yearly management fees will continue to be charged regardless whether your fund has postive or negative investment income. These management fees are charged daily based on capital contributed plus unrealised profits by investors or net asset value of the fund. PM has many popular funds that has more than a billions dollars in size.

there are also cases where dividends received past few years may not be able to cover the loss in NAV.

units trust won't gurantee you will not loss your capital and continue paying management fees.

I don't believe anyone has actually complained about the point you are making, ie that fund managers are expected to guarantee that you will not make a loss. I think almost everyone understands that the risk belongs to the investor.

The point is regarding funds that perform below the benchmark. The question is why are investors charged a management fee supposedly for the expertise of those managers, and yet they perform below the benchmark? Versus the alternative which is to simply buy the components of the benchmark, no expertise required, and get better returns with much lower management fees?

The reason, I believe, is like most things in life that some will do better, and some will not. Which funds to invest in, or not invest in, is ultimately the responsibility of the investor. And not just do whatever the agent says, unless that is exactly what you want to do

Hi guys, can I ask any of you who has done this before... I have a fund PIBOND, which is closed for the market at the moment. I came to know PM will only process payments if one chooses DDI (Direct Debit). Can I apply for a direct debit now? Status as of now?

This post has been edited by guanteik: Jul 4 2010, 12:41 PM

You can do it anytime when PMO is online and your bank is online. If the transaction doesn't go through, say, because your bank is not online, the transaction will show as status Pending, and you have to try again some other time.

It doesn't get processed till the next business day, obviously.

@howszat
I don't think PMO can do DDI... It has got to go through a hardcopy form. Anyway, from PMO, I can't get to see the fund name too, when I choose 'Additional Investment'.

I have misread your question. I saw Islamic Bond Fund in the list, but that was actually PBIBF. You are right, PIBOND is not in the list.

A lot of people have the misconception, that once you buy the UT and pay the manager, you can forget about it and reap all the rewards well into retirement. Those people are hopelessly misguided by either their rose tinted glasses or agents who promised them sweet returns.

Any investment carries risk, and those risk are rightfully borne by those who invest and wish to gain profits. If you do not know how to handle the risk, or choose the right time for investment, then you are taking greater risks for your investment. All investment needs effort, nothing will come for free, you need to research properly before buying including the fund, the risks, holdings, fund manager and the right time to invest. If you invest blindly, serves you right on having negative returns on your investment. There are no one to blame, other than the one that pays the money.

The 5.5% sales charge is used to pay your agent, who is suppose to educate you on the above, if he does not do that then get rid of him. The 1.5% management charge is a payment for the manager to buy a basket of equities according the the deed/target of the UT. If the fund says that he must hold minimum 90% in china equities, he cannot and will not sell down to below the percentage, although the economy is crashing, country is bankrupting etc etc. The manager only manages the investment, and hope to beat the benchmark slightly, based on the right stock holdings. If the stock market crash, all stocks will be suffering so it is understandable that the fund will have losses.

It is then up to you to manage your investment according to your asset allocation portfolio, to either sell or buy more depending on the market sentiment and economy. So as a summary of the above, no one is responsible for your investment other then yourself. If you don't put in effort, then you will not reap any gains other than blind luck.

This post has been edited by gark: Jul 4 2010, 11:10 PM

I think u should understand the frustration here is not on the fact that the fund is making a loss. nobody is blaming them for that as we all know the market crashed. The keyword here is 'benchmark'. To under perform compared to the benchmark, how is that supposed to be a paid expertise? why dont u pay me to do that for you? i dont even want 5.5%. just 1% will do. Next, i'll just throw in ur 99% into any types of stock n leave it to fate while laughing all the way to the bank with ur 1%. c'mon, i've paid n i'm supposed to expect some quality performance. n again, i must stress, i'm not expecting profit. i'm expecting performance .

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Added on July 4, 2010, 11:37 pm+1

This post has been edited by dannyme: Jul 4 2010, 11:37 PM

You have not been reading right, that's why I said in my previous post, YOU must do the research, so that you know what fund you are investing in. You don't just go invest blindly into whatever fund that is recommended by agents, that is your mistake and no one can help you, and you are well deserve to get whatever gains or losses there is. Before I will even considering to buy a fund, I will do quite some research. Here are a sample of things you must read and understand.

1. General Stock Market & World Economy performance - I will not buy at peak, I buy at the bottom, DCA is rubbish.
1. Performance vs. benchmark 5 years minimum - I will not buy any fund which does not have min 5 years performance
2. Audited annual accounts - income, expenses, turnover, fund size, fund manager & policies
3. Fact Sheet - Monthly - Latest 6 months - Holding, percentage, regional risks, interest, equity vs. fixed income risks
4. Standard & Poors, Morningstar reviews - performance vs peers - I tend to buy funds which have dropped the least compared to peers during bad periods ie. 1997, 2001, 2008. Any fund will make money in a bull period, it takes skill to survive in bear.
5. Asset Allocation - You must have a proper asset allocation to diversify your risks.

You should not expect performance if you did not do your homework. It is your duty to choose, looks like you have bet on the wrong horse. In fact around 80% of the funds in the Malaysian market now is rubbish and most probably trailing the benchmarks (over 5, 10 year period). I will not buy those, will you?

This post has been edited by gark: Jul 4 2010, 11:55 PM

Yes, u have a point there. i did not do my homework. and that is exactly why i choose unit trust over stock. if every one has done their homework, i really do not understand the reason to choose unit trust. do u pay 5.5% when u r buying stocks?? Maybe i'm the only fool here, but i believe all the average joes out there who had bought unit trust were 'duped' into believing these funds will at least performed at par with the benchmark. u think unit trust, especially PM will be doing so well if they did not drum up this 'expertise' of theirs?

once again, i must stress.... i shouldnt be made to pay thru my nose if every duty to monitor the market in on me.

If you buy stock, expect to do even more homework than buy UT. I invest in stock too, but the sheer amount of work it needs, makes me diversify some to UT especially fixed income & those out of Malaysia, where we cannot invest so easy directly. The stock market during boom times, any tome d*** and harry can make money, but when the bears come, those who are not aware will get eaten alive. I probably estimated that 60%-70% of the listed company in Malaysia is also rubbish. So did you do your homework?

Hot stocks will kill you faster in the long run. And no, I do not pay 5.5% when I buy UT. Shop around and you will see . And also not all of PM's funds are good, I estimate there are maybe 5 that can buy, the rest....

This post has been edited by gark: Jul 5 2010, 12:13 AM

So....the conclusion here is u r not in the same boat as me but u'll have to admit that u too agree that PM is an overhyped unit trust company.

Umm is there a hype in the first place? Avoid all those advertisement, awards and sweet talks from the agents. Focus on performance and hard cold numbers, wherever that might bring me to. In fact I am invested in 6 different UT companies, both in and out of Malaysia, some of them are so low profile, nobody has heard of them. Need to learn to tune out all the static and noise in the market and focus on whats right for YOU.

Also, please don't chase after all the hot/famous/hype funds, with their advertised big big earnings, at most times you are buying at the top of the market and there is no where to go but down. I rather buy UT which has lost the least rather than those who gain the most.

This post has been edited by gark: Jul 5 2010, 12:48 AM