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 Public Mutual v2, PB/Public series

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dannyme
post Jul 2 2010, 02:33 AM

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No offence to all the agents here. But I think i really need to rant a bit to vent my frustration on PM. Well, isn't the very idea of buying unit trust to let the 'professionals' handle our(noobs') investment? Isn't the service charge and annual fee fees for their 'wise and wonderful' decision making? But what do we get at our end? Not only couldn't they perform better than the index benchmarks, nor at the same par as the benchmarks (which i think even my illiterate grandpa is capable of. Yea, i'm being sarcastic) they actually underperformed!! Is this kind of rip off the Ponzi scheme of the 21st century?? Selling something(investment skills) which is nonexistent? This is really like the case of AIG's CEOs getting those fat cheques for their failures! So, am i the only fool led to believe that I'm a noob who needs all the help from these so called 'professional' fund managers to lose....i mean 'invest' my hard-earned moolah (while at the same time getting a chunk of it) or is there anyone of you out there who feels the way i do?
Once again, no offence to all the agents out there. I know you are just making a honest living....but all these underperforming managers should really be shot!!

PS: I'm only referring to PCSF and PBCPEF

This post has been edited by dannyme: Jul 2 2010, 02:43 AM
dannyme
post Jul 3 2010, 01:23 AM

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QUOTE(jackysoo @ Jul 3 2010, 12:58 AM)
Guys, I think you got the idea all wrong...

It does not matter if it's a mutual fund, a trust fund, or you actually buy stocks on your own. It's an investment, period.

Whether you like it or not, investment involves the possibility of losses.

Take another example, what you are talking about is similar to what a business owner hire people for. For example, if you hire a cashier to work in your restaurant, are you expecting that the cashier will always be 100% accurate in his/her work? If you hire a cook for your restaurant, does it mean that he/she will cook 100% perfectly tasty dishes at all times? Come on, people...
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Honestly, i dont quite get ur anology there.
Yes, it's an investment. Yes, there are things which are out of the managers' control. But how do they justify gobbling up 5.5% of ur investment n some annual fees without having to be responsible for anything?
We are paying this amaunt because we believe that these company can AT LEAST perform on par with the benchmarks. If that is TOO much to ask, i dont think they have the right to our 5.5%.

dannyme
post Jul 4 2010, 11:34 PM

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QUOTE(gark @ Jul 4 2010, 11:08 PM)
A lot of people have the misconception, that once you buy the UT and pay the manager, you can forget about it and reap all the rewards well into retirement. Those people are hopelessly misguided by either their rose tinted glasses or agents who promised them sweet returns.

Any investment carries risk, and those risk are rightfully borne by those who invest and wish to gain profits. If you do not know how to handle the risk, or choose the right time for investment, then you are taking greater risks for your investment. All investment needs effort, nothing will come for free, you need to research properly before buying including the fund, the risks, holdings, fund manager and the right time to invest. If you invest blindly, serves you right on having negative returns on your investment. There are no one to blame, other than the one that pays the money.

The 5.5% sales charge is used to pay your agent, who is suppose to educate you on the above, if he does not do that then get rid of him. The 1.5% management charge is a payment for the manager to buy a basket of equities according the the deed/target of the UT. If the fund says that he must hold minimum 90% in china equities, he cannot and will not sell down to below the percentage, although the economy is crashing, country is bankrupting etc etc. The manager only manages the investment, and hope to beat the benchmark slightly, based on the right stock holdings. If the stock market crash, all stocks will be suffering so it is understandable that the fund will have losses.

It is then up to you to manage your investment according to your asset allocation portfolio, to either sell or buy more depending on the market sentiment and economy. So as a summary of the above, no one is responsible for your investment other then yourself. If you don't put in effort, then you will not reap any gains other than blind luck.  laugh.gif
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I think u should understand the frustration here is not on the fact that the fund is making a loss. nobody is blaming them for that as we all know the market crashed. The keyword here is 'benchmark'. To under perform compared to the benchmark, how is that supposed to be a paid expertise? why dont u pay me to do that for you? i dont even want 5.5%. just 1% will do. Next, i'll just throw in ur 99% into any types of stock n leave it to fate while laughing all the way to the bank with ur 1%. c'mon, i've paid n i'm supposed to expect some quality performance. n again, i must stress, i'm not expecting profit. i'm expecting performance .


Added on July 4, 2010, 11:37 pm
QUOTE(howszat @ Jul 4 2010, 12:03 PM)
I don't believe anyone has actually complained about the point you are making, ie that fund managers are expected to guarantee that you will not make a loss. I think almost everyone understands that the risk belongs to the investor.

The point is regarding funds that perform below the benchmark. The question is why are investors charged a management fee supposedly for the expertise of those managers, and yet they perform below the benchmark? Versus the alternative which is to simply buy the components of the benchmark, no expertise required, and get better returns with much lower management fees?

The reason, I believe, is like most things in life that some will do better, and some will not. Which funds to invest in, or not invest in, is ultimately the responsibility of the investor. And not just do whatever the agent says, unless that is exactly what you want to do smile.gif
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+1 rclxms.gif

This post has been edited by dannyme: Jul 4 2010, 11:37 PM
dannyme
post Jul 5 2010, 12:03 AM

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QUOTE(gark @ Jul 4 2010, 11:51 PM)
You have not been reading right, that's why I said in my previous post, YOU must do the research, so that you know what fund you are investing in. You don't just go invest blindly into whatever fund that is recommended by agents, that is your mistake and no one can help you. For me before I will even considering to buy a fund, I will do quite some research. Here are a sample of things you must read and understand.

1. General Stock Market & World Economy performance - I will not buy at peak, I buy at the bottom, DCA is rubbish.
1. Performance vs. benchmark 5 years minimum - I will not buy any fund which does not have min 5 years performance
2. Audited annual accounts - income, expenses, turnover, fund size, fund manager & policies
3. Fact Sheet - Monthly - Latest 6 months - Holding, percentage, regional risks, interest, equity vs. fixed income risks
4. Standard & Poors, Morningstar reviews - performance vs peers - I tend to buy funds which have dropped the least compared to peers during bad periods ie. 1997, 2001, 2008. Any fund will make money in a bull period, it takes skill to survive in bear.
5. Asset Allocation - You must have a proper asset allocation to diversify your risks.

You should not expect performance if you did not do your homework. It is your duty to choose, looks like you have bet on the wrong horse. In fact around 80% of the funds in the Malaysian market now is rubbish and most probably trailing the benchmarks (over 5, 10 year period). I will not buy those, will you?  laugh.gif
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Yes, u have a point there. i did not do my homework. and that is exactly why i choose unit trust over stock. if every one has done their homework, i really do not understand the reason to choose unit trust. do u pay 5.5% when u r buying stocks?? Maybe i'm the only fool here, but i believe all the average joes out there who had bought unit trust were 'duped' into believing these funds will at least performed at par with the benchmark. u think unit trust, especially PM will be doing so well if they did not drum up this 'expertise' of theirs?

once again, i must stress.... i shouldnt be made to pay thru my nose if every duty to monitor the market in on me.
dannyme
post Jul 5 2010, 12:34 AM

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So....the conclusion here is u r not in the same boat as me but u'll have to admit that u too agree that PM is an overhyped unit trust company.
smile.gif
dannyme
post Apr 23 2011, 11:19 PM

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Deleted

This post has been edited by dannyme: Apr 23 2011, 11:27 PM
dannyme
post Apr 23 2011, 11:25 PM

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QUOTE(elearning @ Apr 23 2011, 12:04 PM)
Did you know that you can earn 50% returns from Public Mutual?
Check this out:
http://ourpublicmutual.blogspot.com/2011/0...lic-mutual.html
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Lol...i fell into the same trap during the 2006 - 2007 economic boom. Past data make it so attractive that u will end up being millionaire in 5 years with just 100k-200k investment. I wonder if your agent (assuming you are not an agent) show you the chart of 2008 - 2009. U will sh*t brix looking at that chart.
dannyme
post Apr 23 2011, 11:47 PM

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And what is so great about all these unscrupulous agents (not everyone) is their reasoning of why it is good to buy unit trust anytime.
When it is booming, like these two years, they'll show u the extraodinary gain in just 2 years.
When it drops, they'll reason that unit trust is a long term investment, look beyong the horizon...yada yada...
So...check out the performance of most of the funds for like 4-5 years and u'll see some still in the -ve region while some cant even compete with fd.
God...what a great sales pitch.

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