Thanks for sharing that with me friend.

But I really do not know what about it that is reasonable? There is nothing in it that can be agreed or disagreed with. They are just symbols after all. Just like we can't argue why someone would call their dog "lucky", the meaning is abstract, and no right or wrong to it.

But if one was to say the symbols have any practical use,
putting the earth symbol, will make your plants grow more fertile, than that doesn't make sense at all.

And that's what Feng Shui is all about is it not? Not just symetrical symbols.

What follows is a link to Ying Yang theory.

http://www.jamesmiddleton.net/philosophy_p2.htm

Tai Ji gave rise to Si Xiang, according to the link above. And Wuji (universal void) gave rise to Tai Ji.

On your second question, yes Einstein did mention that. However it wasn't a religion discussion. It was a debate between Bohr and Einstein on whether fundamental elements (sub particles) uncertainty is intrinsic in nature. When it comes to clock, it works like snooker balls, when it comes to atom, it works like roulette.

After several experiments conducted to confirm the finding, the result was, Bohr win, Einstein lose. Nature does play dice when comes to fundamental elements. Uncertainty is indeed an intrinsic property at atomic level (and is not due to measurement errors).

I guess it is the same as putting a not parking sign along the road in KL these days. It just doesn't make sense at all, NOT ANYMORE!

feng shui not really work la. Its just custom/ ancient believe exploited by people to make money

feng shui not really work la? This debate is still going on, so who are you to end it?

Its just custom/ ancient believe exploited by people to make money, ya like all things and religions.

BTW Do take time to research first before you open your mouth and knock it. And for your info, many things in China has been lost...
Example.
Some bronze weapons from Qin Terracotta Warrior 221 BC when unearthed still glitters in metallic luster without being rusty. Modern technical analyze reveals that these weapons, made of an alloy of copper, tin and other ten rare metals are coated with a thin layer of oxidized chromium. For modern people, the technology of chromate coating was invented by a German as late as in 1930’s.

If you plan to get a house, do you check the location accessibility to work's place, hospital, school, restaurant? And whether it is built on a slope, having a dam nearby, draining facility is intact, etc.

You could call it a checklist before getting a house, or other names you see fit, some still stick to the conventional name FS. This is what harmonize with the surrounding actually means. I regards FS as all of the above and not about buying crystal ball, etc.

Unless you don't do the checklist above.
You know what, what you mentioned here make sense.
What is your opinion on the following scenario? You plan to get a house which is built on a hill slope. There are many houses on that slope. A friend of yours advised you this, the house is no good FS and he showed you a FS book that mentioned it. The reason is slope indanger kids when they walk out, bicycling and performing other activities. Also slope limits the car driver's vision as such indanger other cars and also the people staying there.

Using your example above, did your friend just justify a baseless conclusion? The chance that it is indeed bad to own a house on a slope would be coincidental?

Would you do a statistical study whether the chances of accidents are more likely happened on slopes before buying?

More importantly, will you buy the house?

I do not see any points in saying that, even FS's book is coincidentally logical in this case, it doesn't justify the correctness to its entity has anything to do with the decision in buying the house above.

The bottom line is, are you or are you not buying the house.
Same reply, I do not see any points in saying that, even the book of changes is coincidentally logical in this case, it doesn't justify the correctness to its entity has anything to do with the decision in buying the house above.

The bottom line is, are you or are you not buying the house.

I think nice.rider nailed it.. about harmony..

this harmony is hard to comprehend from the five elements in feng shui, but it made it clear as what nice.rider did it... using example of building, location, fucntion to create harmony.... as one neighbourhood....

e.g. a metaphor in feng shui....

water is the nemesis of fire and you need one of each to equalize each other..

feeling hot, cool down with water and vice versa

fair and logic enough

but one thing I cant get over with is what do you do/judge that makes you determine a certain thing has the characteristic of gold(metal to be precise), water, fire, earth etc....

My wife once ask me to accompany her on a fengshui telling session...

sifu: wah.. lu punya characteristic is wood(after flipping through his bible of feng shui), u must keep a pendant or do alteration on thsi and that and increase the fire property to keep it low [I assume the metaphor of fire burning wood to keep it low]

Awakened_Angel: sifu, how you know my characteristic is wood?

sifu: from my bible laaa.........

AA: that I can tell from your action.. But, how do you justify, based on what criteria or law?

Sifu: instantly show me beh song punya face....



This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 26 2010, 11:03 PM

There may be advance tech in China once upon a time, but we must not conflate it with everything that came out from that time.

Definately not the magical means of calculation and measurement known as FS... so in that sense I agree with Fifi.

In terms of seeking harmony... sure I agree, but not in the mythical sense FS was all about, even from the very beginning.

---

Added on September 27, 2010, 9:22 amFirst of all, I'd like to say that I agree with you that all these needs to be put into consideration before purchasing, I've mentioned this in my earlier posts.

But the problem is, I think we are mixing what is logical, and attaching it to something which is mythical, and saying that it makes sense.

This is like calling all asians chinese.

If you'd notice, modern man is creating their own justification as to why FS is true, whereas that is not what it is about. FS is straight forward shown to be magical reasoning.

To make it a little bit clearer, which phrase in Iching states the above you mentioned? You'd probably say "Harmony", but that's vague. Anybody will know harmony is important, I'm more interested in the formula proposed by it to achieve this "Harmony".

Why don't we just say "ergonomics" instead of FS?


I take it that you mean, that even if certain cases may be coincidental, doesn't mean that the whole lot (in FS) is wrong. That we should not use it to consider buying a house.

Well, as I mention above, we must differentiate our own reasoning with the formula and reasoning proposed by FS itself.

I think the most important thing to know whether something can be used or applied, is how it was derived.

Do you take a medicine, that was concocted through scientific research and testing, or something which someone dreamt up, has not been objectively tested, and has no real world logical reason to be true?

---

Added on September 27, 2010, 9:40 amLet me break it down, so that we can address them seperately instead of FS as a whole entity.
I believe this is where FS came from?

"acceptance of the inevitability of change" I agree.

"Dynamics of balance" in terms of the 5 elements etc. <---- this is Hogwash.

"Triagrams" having power or any significance <---- BS

Why does it have to end up with us been told we need to buy something for us to realise that it is not true? Why can't we see that the reason people can easily manipulate FS is because it is absent of proof? And the reason why it's absent of proof after thousands of years, may be because it's not true?

In the case of religion, or the existence of god, the conclusion/the promise, is beyond life, thus it can never be proved/disproved in this life.

But for FS which is suppose to work for us, in our daily lives, why do we not expect proof?

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Sep 27 2010, 09:40 AM

+1.. I do agree in FS that harmony is essential but at the same time reject mythical beast is in charge of the force

It is a good thing that you are able to 'see and touch' the pyramids are still standing in Egypt today or else you would have put it down as mythical and folklore, as till today, we are still unable to explain its existence - how it is built.

Yes there are many charlatans taking advantage of people's greed and ignorance, but by no means should we sweep what ever we don understand as magical or mythical.

Agreed. But we should not confuse something that we know, and something that has yet to be proven.

The sad part is, with all these stuff, usually nobody even bothers to verify them, people just accept them bait, hook and sinker. These is what makes them mythical.

"if it doesn't work, you're just doing it wrong", I think that's just too convenient an excuse.

Most of the time it's a dead giveaway that the thing doesn't work because the stories do not make sense at all, it is not about filling up the blanks (pyramid built using XXXX technique).

Example: "Because water represents wealth, we should accumulate them infront of our house." What's the relation between having water and wealth? Symbolic sure, but how can it be applied literally?!


We do not need to be conned to be a victim, of false thinking.

I'm still waiting for someone to point out what exactly about Feng Shui, or in the I Ching, that shows it's really a book worth reading. And please don't say "harmony", cause, anybody could tell you that without knowing anything about I Ching. Show me how it applies, logically.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Sep 28 2010, 10:09 AM

let`s flash back to the past. During ancient times in china, I`d assume most of the people`s are uneducated, superstitious or ignorant with whac now we know as science. Generally, when a spiritual leader speaks, no one are suppose to question the authencity of it. As most of the spiritual leader are either close to king or king himself



exactly, I was informed that my fens shui horoscope is earth... but why? What makes you said so? according to the 10,000 years book of change of course... but hwo valid is the argument within the book? like any other religious book. No one question it, only conclusions/examples/result were drawn randomly to fit in the gap between mythical and fact.

Sorry.. not me.. I do not have the sufficient knowledge in that area. But I think you could get the answer for RM 10.00. Just visit any fortune telling stall.

Lol, and I'd get that same look you got when you questioned that guy who told you to buy a talisman for your wife.

Let me give you an experience that I face once.. being drag by my partial superstitious wife and superstitious mother in law(what excuse can I give of not going when being drag by these two powerful people ) Ok.. continue....

I was draged to consult the chinese traditional oracle for new coming year(it is said that the chinese oracle were to "keep" anak hantu, that is why his prediction/forecast was damn accurate.... ) I do not buy such things and was skeptical about it....

upon entering his holy place, there`re lots of altar and statues of all kinds of deity.. some looked mythical, some looked intimadating... but then, I notice something else.... there`s small small coffin on the corners... with sweets, toys and milks surrounded them.. (that`s where the anak hantu is sleeping I suppose) and then our turn for "consultation"

being unwilling to go, but was "forced" to, I`d put my best in acting skill to practise.... I acted I was excited.. and I was shown random card and was being asked to choose one...

Once I choose, the sifu said "you dont even want to see/consult me.. why bother to come here?"
I was suprised

my acting skill pecah tembelang?

The wikipedia nail it down to its simplest form - Feng Shui is an ancient Chinese system of aesthetics believed to use the laws of both Heaven (astronomy) and Earth (geography) to help one improve life by receiving positive qi.

hospital?
TheDoer - During ancient China they dun have electron microscope to validate airborne virus and/or bacteria but they do know from observation is it not ok to live near hospital.
And I guess if you were to travel back in time, you would also have a hard time describing virus or bacteria during those ancient times. Maybe they'll burnt you at the stake for causing the disease, no?

Many reasons are lost through time and greed. Some practice has become redundant due to advances in technology and new knowledge. Hope you are able to regain or discover some of the lost reason from the Feng Shui book. Hope your journey gives you some insight into the daily lives of these ancient people.

This post has been edited by DarkNite: Sep 28 2010, 08:34 PM

@DarkNite

"aesthetics" and "believed/belief" sums it well

The problem is not just the ancient people, but modern people believe it is real too, for the most unrealistic parts of it.

Sure, you can't explain virus, but nonetheless people know that they can fall ill. Ancient people also thought that blood letting (draining your blood) can cure you. Does that prove to be true? Why do you think that their ideas have any reason to be true at all?

In math exams, the teacher sometimes tells us to give the workings, otherwise no marks will be given. Naturaly because, god knows we may be guessing the answers.

The prob now is, even with the tools and technology available, we put faith and believe in the conclusion, without even wanting to test it out.

As for staying near a hospital, and other logical stuff, as I said, I don't believe this is in the IChing is it?

You've not mention your stand, do you believe that these symbols have real power other than aesthetic/symbolic?

---

Added on September 29, 2010, 8:58 amEven if say, Feng Shui is true, and we've proven statistically that it works. We still need to know the workings. The workings is very important, because it determines application of a conclusion.

The fact that we do not bother to find out, and just accept, this is something which I can't understand. If one believes that Feng Shui actually works, just that the "real" ideas have faded into history, why aren't anybody trying to use modern science to find it again? Why aren't there experiments, of houses facing this direction and that direction, whether there are any difference to the occupants.

Wouldn't this knowledge be very useful?

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Sep 29 2010, 09:00 AM

Doer,

Let`s go back to basics.... what is Qi?

I donno... you tell me There are many definitions to it, depending on the believer.

Energy?

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Sep 29 2010, 09:41 AM

Ahaha...

I`ll try.. but not from Feng SHui POV... from what I experience LAHH...
During martial art training, you need to focus when delivering an explosive move... when fosucing, you are actually, diverting all your enerrgy of your body to only a certain body part

In Taoism, it is better known as Life Force or what Jedi are referring to. And yes... energy... the all of it.. heat, kinetic, etc etc...........

Kinetic energy exist. But super human feats, like flying or walking on water with your Qi, that's a different story. The supernatural idea of qi, is that your body can contain some form of energy other than the normal calories burn to kinetic energy.

Anyway, talking about kung fu, it is discovered that chinese martial arts are not as efficient as others (anybody watch the measurement on astro?). That explains Bruce Lee's westernization of the arts. The solid fist beats the complicated moves, which are suppose to increase your Qi.

A not related example, even the nanchucks which ppl think are hard hitting, actually have less force than if you hit directly with a stick of the same length.

Belief and fact sometimes do not tally. (sorry not addressing to you, just can't seem to state this enough)