hyumi...better still...you and me go play a guzeng and I show.

Please delete this post.

This post has been edited by PhantomGaL: Feb 8 2010, 12:36 AM

hi! i learned the guzheng for about 1 year already.. did not take the exam as i'm learning it out of pleasure..

i'm in gr4 now and wants to know you guys opinion.. am i going too fast or too slow?

coz i've just started for about 2 months, my teacher tell me i can upgrade to gr1 already.. and between half a year.. i'm into gr3 already..

abit surprising for me actually as i learned the piano and violin and did not upgrade to another grade so fast.. i've heard somewhere that for guzheng, one can jump from beginner to grd4 in a few months time actually... after that, will take longer time to go to the next grade.. what's your opinion?

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Added on March 5, 2010, 2:26 pmwow... thanks for the score.. gotta try it out..

This post has been edited by cassiemissy: Mar 5 2010, 02:26 PM

Hi All,

I like this place. I had been playing for 2 years but I felt like a frog in a nutshell. I figure its time I explore what is out of my nutshell and bumped into this place. I was surprise to see so many guzheng lovers here in Malaysia.

Subang Man although you don’t play guzheng your research on the topic for the sake of your children had been a good source of information. I guess that makes you the “daddy” of this post. Empire you had made a living out of playing the instrument. It is something most music lovers will envy because it is something we desired but were fearful to venture into. Hyumi your series of questions were what got this topic interesting and thanks for starting the post.

I would like to clear out a common misconception here. It is a typical 1960’s Malaysian mentality. The carving and décor on the guzheng is not a factor that makes it expensive. Handicraft artists are a dime a dozen in Malaysian. A trip to Pasar Seni will convince you of that. Given our current technology and skill, it would take only minutes to produce. In the case of China these artist are a penny per ten thousand.

It is the key materials use to make the guzheng that make it expensive. That would be the soundboard, bottom board and the side frames. Let’s detour to the guitar. It had a big hole to capture the sound into the sound box to amplify it. Since the sound going in and the sound going out is the same place, its sound quality is no match compare to the guzheng. It is amazing that the guzheng does not make a hole to capture the sound into the sound board yet it can amplify the sound. If you cover the hole in the guitar you could hardly hear it. We can conclude that it is the soundboard that has ability to capture the sound into sound box. Technically it is the vibration of the bridges that transmit the sound waves through the soundboard. For this reason the soundboard had to be made of a very soft and special wood. The spruce qualifies but it does not make the cut.

Paulownia 泡桐 (pao tong) is the wood that is used to make soundboards. The paulownia tree is native to China and mostly found in Xian. Sometimes the Chinese call it “tong” wood or tree for short. It takes about 5 years for the tong tree to be harvested for timber. Tong is also used for the bottom board. The side frame requires dense wood to keep the sound in the box. The type of wood for the side frame will not affect the sound quality of the guzheng. As long as it is a dense wood, it will do the job. Rosewood and sandalwood is commonly use for the sides. A superior grade tong sound board and bottom board with either rosewood or sandalwood would put a grand piano to shame.

faceless.....errr....what's your point ha? :-D

good info... u r more than welcome to contribute, share n express wat ever here ...



This post has been edited by subangman: Mar 30 2010, 11:49 PM

nice nice! very informative... so next time when i choose a new gu zheng, i will understand them better.. haha..!! thanks!!!

Empire, my point is guzheng price is based on the important materials used to make it and not the décor. Guzheng makers spent 5 years for a tong tree to be harvested. That is a lot of fertilizer and other associated cost. One particular maker (Scarlet Bird, from Xian) allows the board to dry naturally for 1-3 years. This is the old fashion way. Dun Huang from Shanghai uses oven drying with controlled humidity. This cuts down the drying process to a day. Others used a direct flame drying method which cuts down the time to a few hours. In the process the wood got burnt. The ability of the tong wood to transmit sound waves is lost. If you end up buying one of these, it would be your misfortune. Some people here talked about cheap that can do the job. This one is cheap and will never do the job. You will spend more time tuning it than playing it. A fellow class mate used to own this inferior product. That guzheng was brought back to laoshi (teacher) almost every week for tuning. She finally decided to get another one. That was like throwing RM1,800 into the drain.

Back in the 1960s people carve with a knife. Nice carvings take a lot of time to produce and are very costly those days. Today we have very efficient and precision tools for woodworks we still think nice carvings are costly. If a manufacturer had made a grand guzheng throwing in some décor however elaborate it may be would not even constitute one percent of the cost. Conversely for an entry level guzheng, a manufacturer would not want to spend too much effort on décor. I guess that is business sense. Some crooks capitalize on this idea. They will use elaborate design to fool into thinking that you are buying a high quality product.

If you want to get a guzheng then you need to have some knowledge about wood. That is my point, Empire.

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Added on March 31, 2010, 3:33 pmThanks for welcoming me Subang. Comming from you, it was an honor. My apologies for leaving these courtesies out. Guess I was too caught up with replying Empire. I want to make sure I did not offend any one.

Cassie your post number 63 was the reason I found this place. Like you I just want to compare notes with guzheng players who are not my class mates (I stand corrected here). I can ask my laoshi difficult pieces in which the most senior student is currently playing and he will tell me is medium level. None of my class mates are taking exams so we really did not care. Sometimes you just want to know where you are base on certain established standards.

Subang maybe you can help after consulting your daughters. At what grade would a person start using the left hand to press the strings. What grade would be playing with both hands (right hand plays melody and left hand plays bass). It would be nice if you can tell me for the Dun Huang and Beijing syllabus.

This post has been edited by faceless: Mar 31 2010, 03:33 PM

Grade 2 will b using the left hand to press the strings.

Grade 3 onwards one will start wit both hands.... i like to overseeing my gals practising their guzhengs sometimes.

mayb during the weekend i'll scan their syllabus for u ...

sometimes its quite hard for my gals to express the 'feel' of the songs as they r like myself {a banana... and their r made from downunder}
and they dun listen to chinese songs.... so just play according to the score without much feel ....a body without soul !

but lately my younger one begin to express it better after guidence from her sifus....

My elder stopped her Dun Huang after completed her G3.... trying to get her hook back to her guzheng else it'll be a pc of wood in my house.

My younger now touchin G6-7 in CCOM.... and heaps of performance since CNY @ KLCC/Rakan Muda Bukit Jalil/ Poor Sisters Home/ MBPJ ...
and soon to Petronas MPO KLCC in May.

i think i have posted a link for the CCOM syllabus here ...

u want tough one ... try tis .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERNI9xPz44w

This post has been edited by subangman: Apr 1 2010, 12:27 AM

Hey Hey.. your younger one so geng! Going for performance also.. how did she get those performance job? from her sifus? haha.. tell us when she performing.. i will go attend!

her sifus drag her in to public performances after she won the Klang Parade chinese instrument solo division last yr....her sifus really geng
in chinese instrument... *teach me how to post video clips here then u will see their performances*

earning little bit of extra pocket money but i am limiting her as need to sit for her PMR tis year.... on top of tis she still taking her ABRSM
exam and latin competitions... tis gal of mine sch really pack during the weekends... hardly have time for ah pa....

Thanks for the info Subang. It seems you stayed pass midnight to do it. I appreciate it. I look forward to your analysis after the weekends.

I think I have the answer to Cassie’s question. Piano players use a ball-holding grip when they play. That is they make believe that they are holding a tennis ball in their hand. With guzheng player there is a slight variation. The fingers form a line and the thumb sits behind the fingers. This would enable both fingers and thumb to strike the strings in a natural swing motion. When you join the thumb and the fingers at their tips, it is shaped like a bird’s mouth. It is one of the shapes of the three shapes of “one-two-jus” game. The thumb and fingers are not joined. The bird shape is just to give an idea. The fingers resemble the ball holding grip except the position of the thumb varies. It would be easy for piano players to adapt to the guzheng grip and vice versa. The difference is in piano the finger press keys while guzheng player strike the strings. It is easy for a pianist to pick up guzheng and vice versa. In the case of guzheng players, they had to learn to read notes on the treble and bass staff. Furthermore, Cassie had already learnt how to coordinate the left hand with the right from her piano days. Cassie, does my comment make any sense to you?

Is playing with feelings part of the syllabus too? Playing with feeling is hard to define. I have two version of it. I had gathered from movies that it is the use of tempo and volume to create an atmosphere (sad, happy, or lively). Ever notice how the themes of movie play with these elements to suit the scene. In a sad scene they play theme slow and soft, and it has the ability to touch you. It is the question of using the right mood as you play/sing. Knowing the lyrics is not necessary. There is a song the goes “Lonely, I am so lonely.” The singer sang it in such a jovial tone that it does not create the right feel.

The second version has to do with how music can paint pictures in our minds. The 1812 Overture by Tchaikovsky painted the scenario of the Russian defense of Moscow against Napoleon. The first drum beat and how the other instrument echo the beat to create a cannonball sound effect was unforgettable. If you really get into it you can notice how some instruments tried to mimic the sound of horse gallop, the sad moments of seeing a broken homeland, and the pride of a final triumphant victory over Napoleon at the end. These classical pieces had no lyric nor would anyone attempt to put lyrics into them. They are to be appreciated as they are written to feel the scenario and moods.

The guzheng classics are mostly about appreciation of China’s scenic nature. The guzheng is noted to create water, wind, thunder, horse gallop, drums and gongs sound effects. Water beats them all. There is cascading waterfalls, rain drops, gushing rivers, gentle waves, turbulence waves, water flowing off a rain gutter, and perhaps others I had not known yet.

I was playing a peice “the Hills and Waters of Guilin” 桂林山水. Guilin is most noted for its waterfalls and majestic hills. It is a hot tourist spot. I was able to pluck it right but it did not make requirement. I was stuck on this piece for 3 months. On day a senior student told me “put in feeling and laoshi will give you a new piece to play”. She told me to picture Guilin’s beauty. If I cant then search some pictures of it on the net. After that I was suppose to go to some local waterfalls and rivers to listen to the sound water. I did more than that. I brought my instrument to a waterfall in Bentong and then to Templer’s Park and played while I listen to the water. It was easier to see (hear) the similarities. You got to use tempo, volume and accented notes to mimic the sounds. On volume it is not like the f, p, m notations for a certain section of the song as used by piano. It is varying loudness form one note to the next. It can be “loud soft loud soft” and many other possible combinations. In this case although it is called played with feelings, there is no emotion involved. It is more like feeling the environment. Laoshi later gave me “Gratitude to the Huang Ho” to play. Even though I knew where the water sounds are, I know it does not feel right. I ask my senior to explain the piece. It was about the composer gratitude to the Huang Ho for sustaining the people (the Chinese title is a 3 word poetic form where you could never guess the context). It is a question of knowing theme (like the 1812 Overture) and using the pieces to paint a picture. I hope these points will help your daughters. Empire, do you have anything to add? You had always stress feelings.

highly appreciate your info.. will pass it to my gals.... THANK YOU on behalf for my gals.

waah u veri alert person... noted tat i am still hang around past midnite.

tis have been my life since my flying days... {hangin around my notebook until 1-2am daily unless i am in a place where not access to phone or ADSL}

as i used to say music is a passion and it breaks all barriers (religion, race, politics, gender, etc)

Wow.. ur gals are really cool... so young but so much experience..

i dunno how to post video here as well.. haha





Hey! thanks so much.. so tat means since i hav background in music, i can go faster? but now i seems lack of expression.. and ur explanation really helps.. do u really bring ur instrument to the waterfall.. so cool!

I think I can only be satisfied with nature cd music and pictures in the net..


Would like to hear u play as well.. any chances?

You are most welcome, Subang. Sharing knowledge is fun. When you expect a reply from someone you will take notice of the time they regularly surf and check for the reply with strong anticipation.

I don’t think you can see me play this year, Cassie. Next Chinese New Year would be possible. Getting stuck in “the Hills and Waters of Guilin” for three months and “Gratitude to Hwang Ho” for one month was no help. I still got a big list of “water” pieces before can I move to the “thunder” ones. This is beginning to sound like frictional kung fu thingy.

It is not the music background that gives you an edge in any one instrument. The music gives you some edge. You had understanding in things like whole notes; half notes … It is the dexterity of the fingers gained from a similar instrument that is the greatest help. When you move from piano to violin there was no edge except for music theory. If you go into guitar, you would have a dexterity edge because your fingers know how to hold down a chord. Even if you move to er hu or pi pa you still have that edge. Form recorder to sax there is an edge because the fingering is the same, right Subang?

I was a flutist playing the plastic kind Yamaha cheaplat type FIFE... fingering compare with sax almost there but now instead of 8 holes
i got 21keys to take care...

cool wow cool.. i've met some really great people here! ^.^

I was wondering who posted the 好心分手 here. I think we should post more pieces here to make this place more interesting. Can anyone tell me how you post a document into the reply? Has anyone played it? It does not sound like the song which Kelly Chan sang.

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Added on April 2, 2010, 9:41 pm

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Added on April 4, 2010, 1:16 pm

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Added on April 4, 2010, 1:20 pm

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Added on April 4, 2010, 1:31 pm

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Added on April 4, 2010, 1:40 pmor is tis wat u like ?



This post has been edited by subangman: Apr 4 2010, 01:40 PM

Thanks Subang,

I am also what you called a “banana”. I learnt chinese with a Chinese-English Dictionary and through lyrics of Cantonese songs back in the 90s. I command a good vocabulary for single characters but have difficulties with compound words (eg electric brain = computer). I have problems understanding written formal mandarin because of these compound words. I guess, you have to be educated in mandarin for that. What syllabus is this, Beijing or Dun Huang?