Next Gen Console: PS3 vs XBOX 360 vs. Wii, Next Gen speculation discussion
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 May 20 2005, 01:04 AM
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11,305 posts Joined: Jan 2003 
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QUOTE(James_yka @ May 20 2005, 12:42 AM) Then PS3 1 is 1 lousy joke... like PS2... since tat they can change the spec n design witout prior notice... v cant say anythg abt it... If only i can understand what you are trying to say here.......let me put my sorting hat on my head and maybe i could dig up some Singlish dictionary so that i can decipher some of this.....  This post has been edited by stringfellow: May 20 2005, 02:31 AM |
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May 20 2005, 04:12 AM
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7,071 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: London :: Mutiara Damansara :: Xbox Live Network  
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Sony's Phil Harrison on PlayStation 3
QUOTE Everyone expected PlayStation 3 to be quite impressive, but many people were shocked at just how much of a leap ahead of current-gen technology was showcased by Sony at its events here in Los Angeles on Monday and Tuesday. The reaction has, however, been mixed; those who saw the real-time demos in person have been left jaws agape, while those who didn't are generally highly sceptical of Sony's claims. QUOTE Eurogamer: One question on the lips of many people at the moment: how much of what we saw in the PlayStation 3 demos was actually running in real-time? Phil Harrison: Everything in the demos was real-time. QUOTE Eurogamer: And what about the game footage clips? Phil Harrison: Not all of that - in fact, none of it was real-time because it was all running off video. If you make a presentation to two and a half thousand people, you're going to put some of it on video just to be on the safe side. I've been asked this question a lot. The way we put those videos together, everything was done to specification. Everything was done to PS3 spec. Virtually everything used in-game assets; some things were rendered. QUOTE Eurogamer: How representative of what we're actually going to be seeing in PS3 games were those videos? No more killzone 2...now ps3 was infact designing game for E3 only...Phil Harrison: I think very. I think depending on the game, different games took a different approach to their way of expressing what the games are like - but clearly, something like MotorStorm uses more cinematic, replay-like cameras than you would ever enjoy in-game. So that makes a big difference... But everything is done to spec. |
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May 20 2005, 04:23 AM
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Senior Member
10,544 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: GMT +8:00 
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QUOTE(eone @ May 18 2005, 11:01 AM) just some stupid x360 fans in anandtech forums, rechecked, confirm x360 iz 115GFlops only.. You people really believe any of those figures?well... if the overall system produce 1TFlops only, this means Ati lose to nvidia ^^ QUOTE(snowcrash @ May 18 2005, 11:33 AM) From /. the "ps3 produces 1 TFlops theory" is pretty much bunk. Yes, it can do that, but only if you disable all other functions and have the entire processing speed dedicated to nothing but the benchmark. Yes, this is indeed true. The Cell has the potential to be powerful, but a LOT of that depends on how efficiently the software can take advantage of all the power. Same goes for the Xbox360 and its 6 hardware threads.Ie, you benchmark your computer by running nothing but benchmark utility... no directX, no background programs AND most importantly, NO OS (like windows). All the discussion about Gigaflops are just marketing smokescreen. The PS3 has more power, but is irrelevant until the developers figure out how to get the juice from the processor "array". We'll only see real comparison around February, when the PS3 SDK has been out for long enough and there are enough 360 games out to compare with what is coming. QUOTE(prazole @ May 18 2005, 12:30 PM) Previous Sony titles does squeeze the juice out of the ps2.. so no question about that.. The ps2 was not a balanced design IMO. The CPU was very powerful (although very hard to fully optimize for) but the graphics was quite behind.Epic was given 2 months and they already got their Unreal3 engine running as seen in e3..  and ps3 is said to produce 2 Tflop theoritically ... i will say its good news more than bad news..For more REAL discussion about the CELL architecture, here's a good thread: http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=157407 Sorry i had to crash your party, people  |
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May 20 2005, 05:04 AM
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7,071 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: London :: Mutiara Damansara :: Xbox Live Network
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More Detail on the Xbox 360 GPU
QUOTE ATI did clarify that although Microsoft isn't targetting 1080p (1920 x 1080) as a resolution for games, their GPU would be able to handle the resolution with 4X AA enabled at no performance penalty. Scratching the Surface of NVIDIA's RSX QUOTE NVIDIA stated that they will eventually do a unified shader GPU, but before then there are a number of other GPU enhancements that they are looking to implement. Potentially things like a programmable ROP, programmable rasterization, programmable texturing, etc... QUOTE We're going to keep digging on both of these GPUs, as soon as we have more information we'll be reporting it but for now it's looking like this is the best we'll get out of Microsoft and Sony. This post has been edited by PrivateJohn: May 20 2005, 05:04 AM |
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May 20 2005, 05:23 AM
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Senior Member
10,544 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: GMT +8:00
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QUOTE ATI did clarify that although Microsoft isn't targetting 1080p (1920 x 1080) as a resolution for games, their GPU would be able to handle the resolution with 4X AA enabled at no performance penalty. Hm... wonder how that works... 10MB of EDRAM can only store the back buffer at that resolution (almost 8MB), without enough space for the Z-buffer even, much less to store AA samples. If what they claim is indeed true, then things are getting much more interesting than i originally thought.... |
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May 21 2005, 01:32 AM
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7,071 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: London :: Mutiara Damansara :: Xbox Live Network
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Anandtech tries to find next gen
QUOTE We wrote earlier about the disappointment that was E3, now let us clarify a bit. The Sony PlayStation 3 press conference was quite enjoyable, as were our private meetings with ATI and NVIDIA to discuss PC hardware, but with no actual presence of next-generation console hardware at the show itself, we were left wanting much more. QUOTE Microsoft was running all of their Xbox 360 demos on Apple Powermac G5 machines, and Sony didn't have a single PS3-anything in their booth (with the exception of some clips from the press conference). This year's E3 was very much about current generation platforms and games, and in that respect it was a disappointment. |
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May 21 2005, 01:30 PM
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Senior Member
10,544 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: GMT +8:00
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http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html?fromint=1
Keep in mind that Microsoft was the one that came up with that, so take it with a truckload of salt. Ok here is what i think of it. CPU Xbox: 3x PowerPC core (general purpose) 3x Vector units (FP/SIMD number crunching) PS3: 1x PowerPC core (general purpose) 1x Vector unit (FP/SIMD number crunching) 7x SPE (FP/SIMD number crunching) The Xbox360 will obviously have a lot more general purpose CPU power compared to the PS3. The PS3 on the other hand is a streaming FP monster, but lags behind the Xbox when it comes to general purpose computing power. How they compare in real world apps and games remains to be seen. Expect the balance to tip in favor of either one depending on what the computing demands are. Graphics There is definitely not enough known at this point in order to make any real comparisons yet. But from all current indications, while the performance is unknown, the Xbox360 GPU looks like it is a more novel/flexible architecture. The PS3 does claim to support 1080p HD mode, and has a dual output capability, so it seems like it will be no slouch in terms of performance. However they have not spoken anything about AA, while the Xbox360 seems to be heavily focused towards that, supposedly giving 4xAA for "almost free". The memory bandwith comparison in that article was rather unfair IMO, because the 256GB/s figure for the Xbox is for the max EDRAM bandwith. No doubt EDRAM will give it an advantage, but to make such a simplistic comparison is just plain wrong |
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May 21 2005, 02:38 PM
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7,071 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: London :: Mutiara Damansara :: Xbox Live Network
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Ya...i will wait till the game developer which got both final kit and tell us the real result.
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May 22 2005, 04:27 AM
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7,071 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: London :: Mutiara Damansara :: Xbox Live Network
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E3: Microsoft's J Allard on Xbox 360
QUOTE If there's any truth in anything we've seen this week it's that no one can really be that confident that know who has the advantage. There are more smoke and mirrors flying around at E3 this week than you'd find at a magic forum, and the best advice to anyone getting caught up in the intense arguments is to enjoy the show but take it all with a huge pinch of salt. Because nobody really knows yet. Be excited. Be disappointed. Be cynical. But don't claim you know any better than anyone else. Even J Allard admits as much in this revealing interview, conducted less than 48 hours after Sony conducted its pre-E3 briefing and played its PS3 hand. Check out this interview, it's very hillarious...i hope they have a video capture. That's the time when we first "wow" by sony conference with all the magic, even j allard is shivering... ...and after like days after...microsoft engineer keep working out and do some "theorical calculation" and that's in ikanayam links. IGN took it from Major Nelson's blog, in case you guys don't know he is microsoft employee. It's quite fun reading it... Included post like this... QUOTE Major Nelson Says: The things happen over sony & microsoft is pretty much like us.6 hours, 17 minutes after publication. This is great discussion. As you can imagine...the Xbox team is reading your comments and enjoying this discussion as well. My goal here is to present you, the smart consumer, with some data. You can claim that they are biased, but they are facts...like them or not. Sony is a great company at spin and showbiz...they have a whole division dedicated to developing and creating great fictional stories (Sony Pictures) for our entertainment. They have history of taking creative license with their technical performance. At Microsoft, we take a much more reserved approach...we'd rather under promise and over deliver. I ask again: Sony where is your community spokesperson/blogger to address the concerns of the gamers? Don't you want to have a direct conversation like this with your customers? (and yes...I see Sony IP's in my blog log..so I know you are watching me.) I also want to point out that this is great discussion...you all bring up some good points, and I'll see if I can track down the experts on my team to get some answers. This post has been edited by PrivateJohn: May 22 2005, 04:28 AM |
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May 24 2005, 10:19 AM
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Senior Member
662 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: KL
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May 24 2005, 10:24 AM
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Elite
169 posts Joined: Mar 2005 From: Wallowing in my Pool of Ignorance (splat..splat..)
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May 24 2005, 10:14 PM
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2,240 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=529742#529742
QUOTE All 48 of the ALUs are able to perform operations on either pixel or vertex data. All 48 have to be doing the same thing during the same clock cycle (pixel or vertex operations), but this can alternate from clock to clock. One cycle, all 48 ALUs can be crunching vertex data, the next, they can all be doing pixel ops, but they cannot be split in the same clock cycle. That was unexpected, I had thought the R500 would have been more flexible......  |
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May 24 2005, 10:17 PM
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Senior Member
10,544 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: GMT +8:00
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QUOTE(DSC @ May 24 2005, 09:14 AM) http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=529742#529742 It has been clarified that this is not true. Read the whole thread.That was unexpected, I had thought the R500 would have been more flexible...... |
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May 25 2005, 09:00 AM
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7,071 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: London :: Mutiara Damansara :: Xbox Live Network
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Console War II
-------------------  A Gamers' Manifesto QUOTE 5. And on the opposite side of the nipple coin... Give it a read, it's hillarious but it's quite true!Developers will be shocked one day when they notice that the world is full of women. It's true! More than half of your potential customer base are penisless. They have money. They like doing fun things. And yet, how do you think they feel when they play a game where the heroine looks like this:  Yeah, that's what she wears into battle. Thong-length kimono, no bra for those flopping DDD breasts. And this is years after analysts told developers that women would happily play games if they didn't feel so objectified by them, and several decades past the point where they should have even needed to be told that. Have you guys ever met a woman? Then why don't you try making just a few games that don't play off of a 14 year-old male's idea of womanhood on the apparent hope that he'll play the game one-handed? |
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May 25 2005, 11:42 AM
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Senior Member
15,022 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Damansara Jaya/Bandar Utama
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QUOTE(ikanayam @ May 21 2005, 01:30 PM) http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html?fromint=1 IGN is really a truckload of shit. That looks more like a marketing campaign written by some 10-years old moron at MS marketing department. They keep blabbering the 256GB/sec, which is the bandwitdth between the EDRAM and/or between the main GPU and the daugther GPU(the XBOX360 GPU is split in two). Anyone who has half a brain can see through the bullshit. Really, they needen't to resort to such low tactics...and i guess IGN was paid handsomely by MS.Keep in mind that Microsoft was the one that came up with that, so take it with a truckload of salt. Ok here is what i think of it. CPU Xbox: 3x PowerPC core (general purpose) 3x Vector units (FP/SIMD number crunching) PS3: 1x PowerPC core (general purpose) 1x Vector unit (FP/SIMD number crunching) 7x SPE (FP/SIMD number crunching) The Xbox360 will obviously have a lot more general purpose CPU power compared to the PS3. The PS3 on the other hand is a streaming FP monster, but lags behind the Xbox when it comes to general purpose computing power. How they compare in real world apps and games remains to be seen. Expect the balance to tip in favor of either one depending on what the computing demands are. Graphics There is definitely not enough known at this point in order to make any real comparisons yet. But from all current indications, while the performance is unknown, the Xbox360 GPU looks like it is a more novel/flexible architecture. The PS3 does claim to support 1080p HD mode, and has a dual output capability, so it seems like it will be no slouch in terms of performance. However they have not spoken anything about AA, while the Xbox360 seems to be heavily focused towards that, supposedly giving 4xAA for "almost free". The memory bandwith comparison in that article was rather unfair IMO, because the 256GB/s figure for the Xbox is for the max EDRAM bandwith. No doubt EDRAM will give it an advantage, but to make such a simplistic comparison is just plain wrong There's a much fairer and realistic (and neutral) comparison of the specs at Gamespot. At least they don't take sides with no real information. |
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May 25 2005, 11:58 AM
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Senior Member
10,544 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: GMT +8:00
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QUOTE(Matrix @ May 24 2005, 10:42 PM) IGN is really a truckload of shit. That looks more like a marketing campaign written by some 10-years old moron at MS marketing department. They keep blabbering the 256GB/sec, which is the bandwitdth between the EDRAM and/or between the main GPU and the daugther GPU(the XBOX360 GPU is split in two). Anyone who has half a brain can see through the bullshit. Really, they needen't to resort to such low tactics...and i guess IGN was paid handsomely by MS. There's a much fairer and realistic (and neutral) comparison of the specs at Gamespot. At least they don't take sides with no real information. No need to get so mad. Did you even read the clear disclaimers IGN wrote right at the beginning of the article? It was not IGN who wrote that article. Read carefully. |
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May 25 2005, 12:40 PM
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Senior Member
15,022 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Damansara Jaya/Bandar Utama
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QUOTE(ikanayam @ May 25 2005, 11:58 AM) No need to get so mad. Did you even read the clear disclaimers IGN wrote right at the beginning of the article? It was not IGN who wrote that article. Read carefully. Okay..okay..saw it already! hee-hee..okay let's make that MS is a truckload of shit... Let's see how SONY gonna counter this...so that i can put "SONY is a truckload of shit" soon....  This post has been edited by Matrix: May 25 2005, 12:42 PM |
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May 25 2005, 12:48 PM
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Elite
169 posts Joined: Mar 2005 From: Wallowing in my Pool of Ignorance (splat..splat..)
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QUOTE(Matrix @ May 25 2005, 11:42 AM) IGN is really a truckload of shit. That looks more like a marketing campaign written by some 10-years old moron at MS marketing department. They keep blabbering the 256GB/sec, which is the bandwitdth between the EDRAM and/or between the main GPU and the daugther GPU(the XBOX360 GPU is split in two). Anyone who has half a brain can see through the bullshit. Really, they needen't to resort to such low tactics...and i guess IGN was paid handsomely by MS. I don't see what the fuss is about. That was a very balance analysis based on speculative data. Based on the speculative information, the XBox 360 does seems to be a more powerful beast compared to the PS3 or the Revolution. There's a much fairer and realistic (and neutral) comparison of the specs at Gamespot. At least they don't take sides with no real information. I don't own a XBox and am myself a huge fan of Nintendo. But I can't deny the blatant fact slapped right at my face. But again this is speculative, so please hold your horses with titanium reins. |
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May 25 2005, 12:49 PM
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Senior Member
10,544 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: GMT +8:00
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QUOTE(Matrix @ May 24 2005, 11:40 PM) Izzit?? Tak nampak-ler! Some of it was BS as usual, but some things they said were quite true, as i said in my earlier post.Okay..okay..saw it already! hee-hee..okay let's make that MS is a truckload of shit... Let's see how SONY gonna counter this...so that i can put "SONY is a truckload of shit" soon.... |
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May 25 2005, 12:51 PM
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Senior Member
10,544 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: GMT +8:00
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QUOTE(ray_ @ May 24 2005, 11:48 PM) I don't see what the fuss is about. That was a very balance analysis based on speculative data. Based on the speculative information, the XBox 360 does seems to be a more powerful beast compared to the PS3 or the Revolution. I wouldn't look at it as a completely fair analysis. Clearly some things were pure BS like the part about the transistor count comparison.I don't own a XBox and am myself a huge fan of Nintendo. But I can't deny the blatant fact slapped right at my face. But again this is speculative, so please hold your horses with titanium reins. |
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