where didja gather that monster can perform to the max?

Ok, so now we get to the heart of your argument. So in summary you are saying that no certification = no good because they cannot confirm the bandwidth or speed. That's it?! That's your whole argument for pushing people to buy expensive cables?

Do bear in mind the counterpoint is that just because the speed is not confirmed via certification doesn't mean it cannot be achieved. Did you see the link given above: http://www.audioholics.com/education/cable...testing-results Look at the testing results: at 6' length even the monoprice HDMI passes the 10.2GBps rate. Same as the few Monster cables listed. Of course those results cannot speak for other cheapo HDMI cables sold locally by Tesco or other hypermarkets.

Also just to clarify with you, are you also saying that certified cables will give better video quality compared to non-certified cables? Please answer.

And you still haven't answered my question: "Assuming two different cables with the same bandwidth capacity, how will that impact image quality?"

This post has been edited by jchong: Aug 20 2010, 09:31 AM

This post has been edited by DigitalTech: Aug 20 2010, 09:30 AM

I think both Digitech and JChong have their point in the discussion.

What JChong ask is if uncertified cable meet the HDMI requirement on bandwidth, there should be no difference in picture quality which I agree.

Digitech argument is if the cable is uncertified, then there is no way end user will know whether it will work as good as certified cable. Again, the point here is customer is taking a risk. If he get a good batch of HDMI cable, then it should work as good as boutique brand cable. Another problem with cheap unknown cable is some cable is a mixture of iron and copper which is very thin. Not PURE COPPER. So when it's bend more than certain degree, it'll break the cable. I don't believe in mixing silver in copper wire will increase the video picture quality. Also shorter length for less than 6', the tolerance for build quality in cable is lower.

So can we agree that if both cable are certified, both should display the same picture quality as required by HDMI standard?

My take is if you throw in RM 1k for 3 ft HDMI cable and expect to see a difference, it must be placebo effect. But as long as you feel good touching a RM 1k cable, who cares? It is your money and as long as you are happy with your purchase, that's a money well spend.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Aug 20 2010, 09:47 AM

I would agree to this statement.

What about you DigitalTech? Agree or not?

This post has been edited by jchong: Aug 20 2010, 09:51 AM

On qualitative ground, say if a OEM cable (Pioneer free cable, china mali punya) / non-branded cable can still transmit HD audio visual flawlessly, it's a 'pass' to me (peasant a bit cheapskate).

What I am eager to know is :

1. Whether a good HDMI cable does justify the price against non-certified cable
- Sorry, I have too many HDMI cables from OEM, non-branded to branded. So far, still not 100% convinced that it will bring a lot of improvement in qualitative term. Not so good experience when I tested a so-called v1.4 cable from a reputable brand (more famous than Monster for those HT hobbyists) that was being awarded 5 stars by a mag when it FAILED to outshine the cheapo Panasonic cable .

2. What is the difference between High-Speed cable against Standard Cable for audio and visual
- I am eager to know the difference (qualitative) both in audio and visual for these cables WHEN watching a movie / concert BD.




I agree that cheap cables might not last long esp those generic type. The connectors will even come off if you pull too hard

I guess I am lucky thus far as no of it has failed.

So far, I really failed to see significant improvement by using expensive HDMI cable. So, still sticking with those cheap HDMI cables from Pioneer, Giraffe, Panasonic, and 'kikilala' HDMI

If it's certified with the same specs, very likely it will perform the same.

Why Monster and other branded cables are so expensive?

These manufacturers need to build the cable accordingly to meet the certifications standards and required $$$.
This is to deliver full potential of your home theater experience.

Just like car to meet the crash test standards before it is certified to be safe to drive.
That's why branded cars are safer than the cheap ones. They invest in the quality materials and R&D.

Do you think Proton & Perodua meet crash test standards? Will the air-bag inflate when crash? Or is there air-bags in the car?
That's why you are paying such a price for this cars.
But, it will still bring you from point A to point B. No complaints for the price.

Same goes to cable, you pay RM10 for HDMI cable and you can see picture and hear sound, I'm happy already.
Who cares certification and build? It's RM10 a piece!

I guess it best to do a showdown not in words or specs but the actually 'proof of the pudding'...

Glad we all agree on this.



Using the car analogy is a little flawed.

What is the basic function of a car? Get from point A to B. Cheap or expensive car can also do the same.

But apart from the basic function, there are important secondary functions of a car:

* Safety - as you pointed out. Relevant here are crash test standards, safety equipment like air bags, ABS, EBD, etc.
* Comfort - noise insulation, suspension, etc.
* Handling, etc.

The secondary functions are real and practical. And people will pay more to get these functions because these functions make a real world difference.

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Let's look now at HDMI cables.

Basic function: to transmit the signal from one device to another. In short lengths cheap or expensive cable will be able to transmit signal.

Next, are there secondary functions of the cable that are real and practical?

* Length rating - this is quite important and real, since many people might want to run long HDMI cables (e.g. to projector). Thankfully this is certifiable but you really need to ask about it. Here is where clearly price or brand doesn't dictate performance. Say I need a ~10m HDMI cable to my projector for Blu Ray. Basic bandwidth needed is 4.95Gbps. Look at the table here again: http://www.audioholics.com/education/cable...testing-results

A cheapish cable like the BJC Series 1 passes the test. The more expensive Cobalt Cables fail. All the Monsters pass The WireWorld Starlight 5 at a shocking US$1399.95 fails (though tested at 12m).

* Build quality - a rather vague term, but yes we don't want connectors to snap or pop off. We want cables that can flex and not break internally. Trouble is, since you're so keen on certifications - is there a certification for build quality?
* Safety - I think mainly the building inspectors in USA are fussy about this - whether cables, especially those which are meant to be buried in the wall or ceiling, are safe. They have CL2, CL3 rating certs. Does this really make any real world difference?

So you say expensive cables are due to build quality. First thing, what is the certificate to prove build quality? You claim Monster cables have superior build quality - how can this be proved? Any cert to show for build quality? I'm genuinely interested in this because if I want to buy a cable with better build quality, how can I tell?

Aww... back N year ago i when still young, i fail my car driving test.. then hor, next exam i kasi duit kopi to the get my driving lessen
So hor, after i get my driving lessen, am i a skillful driver??? or just a certified driver (but actual not so skillful one) ???

Unfortunately there's no organisations/bodies certified cable build quality.

All I can share is this built diagram for Monster Gamelink HDMI for PS3 cable.



This post has been edited by DigitalTech: Aug 20 2010, 11:56 AM

You can't go wrong with Belden cable. Do you know that some boutique brand use customize belden cable just changing the jacket or add on braiding and sell at crazy price?

Is there really a difference using monster cable and chepo cable in term of audio & video quality?

There are 31 pages abt this to go through...

If it's analog, i'll say maybe. For digital, if it's not breaking up picture or sound, i'll say no.

I agree. Cmon lar...how to compare cars to cables!!! Cars is such a complex machinery, and features like Safety, Comfort, Handling are all very real physical factors. With cables, the job is only to transmit signal from one end to the other. And for digital cables...what's the difference?? Nada. If your TV doesn't shows artifacts , ur el-cheapo cable is doing exactly the same thing as your RM1K cable. The only risk u buy RM10 cable is the probabily u getting a dodgy cable is higher. In which case, you buy another unit of the same...which is still way cheaper.


This post has been edited by Matrix: Aug 20 2010, 05:57 PM

I've experimented with a few digital coaxial cables....for digital using current, its very susceptible to interference from other equipment or cables...so I must say cables for digital does make a different when dealing with interference. But i'm not sure how HDMI audio signal is passed through. But to be safe, a least 1 shielding is recommended if the wiring route is limited to place of outside interference.

i do agree...comparing cars is a no no subject.

welcome to the discussion.

the story so far is if both cables are certified (either type 1 or type 2) they should be equal in performance. everyone agrees with this.

that is, if you compare a type 2 certified cable no-brand one with monster type 2 cable then it should be same. the only difference is whether you trust the no-brand company when it says it did the certification. same goes for Monster.

for me I trust Monoprice and BJC - most likely they use certified Belden cables, and also I have a different problem with Monster's business practices in general


by the way, Matrix ... analog audio thru' HDMI?

This post has been edited by SiriuslyCold: Aug 20 2010, 10:14 PM

BJC definitely uses Belden cables, at least for their Series 1 and Series F2. The ATC cert for both can be downloaded from BJC's page.

yup, totaly agree... 'wat u c is wat u get'

Just for every1's info .. the equipment used for the test here posted here http://www.audioholics.com/education/cable...testing-results is actually from monster cable .. http://www.audioholics.com/education/cable...pment-procedure