what does IR stand for?

Bro, difficult to make any decision between this 2 units.

Reliabilty wise, I will choose Panny S10k, picture looks more natural for my eyes. I heard there was a greenish issue that can be solved after calibration. rite?

Design and color mgmt, I will choose B650, but scare of the IR issue.

Should I consider Sammy A950 LCD? How is this compare to S10k and B650? Anyone can advise?

Just went to the Pana shop in QB Mall as my colleague wanted to get the S Plasma. The guy there said all the Panny range except V and Z series cannot support "displaying 24p" but can only accept 24p input. He said it is the same for all other brands as well. Only high-end flagship like Sammy LED TV can "display 24". Is there any truth in that?

Sure boh? I guess S series should have as well.
B650 plasma has 1080 x 24p wor.

He said the "24p" means it has detected the source is 24p but will still convert to 30p or 60p as the plasma cannot display 24p. Hence the question...

this is interesting....i think need owners of S10 to give input...or senior master anfieldude can give his highly reliable input...

wit re to the IR issue of the B650...can a long hour break in do the trick? like 2 weeks 24hours? and normally how long it takes before IR sets? say when watching Astro channel, Nat Geo or Discovery or football, usually there will be static icon displayed during the program, but fortunately (or not) there are breaks in between...for normal channels, there'll usually be comm break every 15-20mins....for football, each half is 45mins...

if IR is encountered, black bar, static icons, what can be done to reverse the effect?

in terms of warranty, does it cover a permanent burn-in? sammy warranty only 1 or 2 yrs is it? i see in HN, extended warranty quite expensive...RM1k++ for 3yrs extended warranty...

I tot plasma will double or tripple the 24Hz image hence retaining the 24Hz feature at a smoother frame rate (not reconverting it to 50 or 60HZ and introducing conversion artifacts)

anfield.. yoohoo.. can come chip in some info.?

Last time when deciding to buy plasma, IR is one of the factors which 'force' me to buy Panny, Kuro too sexpensive so no choice. In fact I saw a few Sammy & LG got 'ghost image' at SengQ demo units, none on Panny & Pioneer wan. Don't know if new Sammy/LG plasma got this IR problem or not?

BTW this 24p PQ very good arrr? My ancient Panny TH-PY700 cannot sarpot 24p

That's why I was also surprised by his statement...and even more shocking he said Sammy B650 can accept and display 24p.

Just for sake of info and sharing, B650 does native 24p (no conversion or anything)

isn't that very flickery image to display at low 24hz? better to double up the rate to 48 or 72.. (which still means 24hz effect is intact.. )

ar188,

Not all plasmas. I know that the Pioneers refresh at 72Hz. However, I am not sure of the Pannys. I believe the higher end Samsungs refresh at 96Hz. Pannys were known to be a problem on the lower end sets, on their higher end stuff it was refreshing at 96Hz.

There is no clear evidence that Panny fixed the problem in the 2009 model. If they did I believe the G series onwards definately refreshes at 96Hz. I have to check and get back to u guys.

Edit: I believe the G and V series refresh at 48Hz. The Z series is 96Hz.

This post has been edited by anfieldude: Nov 4 2009, 11:11 PM

not sure la boss. just see 24hz on screen on 24hz material.
i am not expert like you and anfield

he's the expert.. nowadays I just wait for him to explain..

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Added on November 4, 2009, 11:17 pmwhat I mean it that TVs don't display 24hz signals at 24hz..

This post has been edited by ar188: Nov 4 2009, 11:17 PM

ronaldjoe,

Thats the input signal, its not the panel refresh rates.

Again, the info is patchy when it comes to the Sammys and the Pannys.

I'll tell you why.

Panasonic struggled to implement the 48Hz and the 96Hz refresh even till last year. There is judder when viewing 24p stuff. This year, they definately fixed them, however, I'm not sure if the fixed it by improving the algo for pull down to display at 60Hz or they are now refreshing at 48Hz. On their professional monitors that came late last year, they fixed the 96Hz implementation.

Samsung, depending on the AMP, u can get 96Hz, 100Hz and other wierd refresh rates. I have seen that when u switch on AMP, they really mess up a 24p signal, there are dropped frames and unnatural motion.

I have not viewed the B650 sets.

My advise would be shut AMP off for all 24p stuff. I believe at worst u would get 48Hz.

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Added on November 4, 2009, 11:25 pmYou're right, no plasma or LCD displays 24Hz at 24Hz, if they did almost all people would complain of a non smooth movement.

I believe a couple of projectors (earlier ones) did that and people just could not live wiht the 24p judder.

I think u will agree that if u really watch closely in the theaters u will see that the 24p judder is present, however, since the screen size overwhelms people, they tend not to notice it too much. Now, when u r back at home, thats a different story.

I think in this case Pioneers implementation is one of the best I have seen compared to most other companies (plasma and LCD that is)

This post has been edited by anfieldude: Nov 4 2009, 11:25 PM

Bro Anfieldude, so as a summary what the guy told me was true? And what does AMP stand for? TQ.

Sifu what is AMP?

chewkl,

I cannot confirm that the S10 does not do 24p correctly. The X10 does not do it too great, from the ones I have seen.

AMP is Samsung's own algorithm for image processing, which in my opinion is flawed to 24p. Leave it at off. Might be good for 50Hz sports for LCD.

AMP- Auto Motion Plus.

It causes dropped/skipped frames when viewing 24p. The refresh rates and algorithms depends on whether u select Low, Mid, High.

This post has been edited by anfieldude: Nov 4 2009, 11:32 PM

Thanks sifu for valuable input on this.
I got to figure out where the setting is... I am scratching my head now

I have seen it in the LCDs, I am not sure if it exists in the plasmas. If it does, leave it off when viewing 24p content.