Here's soley Actuarial Science discussion thread.. I don't think it's a right place to ask.
But in my opinion, risk management course is a good course with a lot of potentials.

Advice for quants wanna be
written by Mark Joshi (Professor at Centre of Actuarial Studies, the University of Melbourne)

http://www.markjoshi.com/downloads/advice.pdf

This post has been edited by Y-shapedTwig: May 25 2013, 02:59 PM

thanks alot, now i need engineering 1

1. Is it hard to take double degrees with actuarial science? I have a strong interest in Maths but Mathematics degree can't take me any further right? i might end up being a lecturer or researcher.

2. I pretty much have interest in probabilities and investment. I've decided to take AS degree but i don't plan to become an actuary, will it be a waste? Is an Actuarial Science degree more valuable than other degrees since we can switch to other fields such as investment and risk management? Is it possible to become a financial consultancy with an AS degree?

3. What field can i enter if i'm an AS degree holder other than risk management and insurance? Can i enter marketing and business field?

4. In Actuarial Science degree, u need to have a stronger Maths or Econs? Like which is more preferable, i don't want the answer 'They must be equally good'.

Please answer my questions>< thanks!

[quote=Crazy.SoT.Gila,Jun 29 2013, 09:18 AM]


Most of the people i know who took Mathematics degree ended up being a lecturer. Even if they ended up in finance field, isn't it more worth it to just take Financial Mathematics degree? AS degree even covers part of Financial Mathematics and basic of accountancy, which is better than Mathematics degree (just dealing with numbers). So Mathematics degree is not that valuable imo even though i love maths

I want to take AS degree but didn't plan to become an actuary because AS degree covers a lil' bit of other fields such as finance, accountancy, investment management etc. It's good to understand part of the things that are in other courses and i can see which field i'm really interested in. So if i don't plan to become an actuary i still can learn a wide variety of things in AS degree that might help in my future career right?

I'm not really good in Econs but better in Maths and interested in Finance. If there's Maths, Statistics, Econs and Finance, how many percentage do they cover in an AS degree?

I'm currently studying A-levels and preparing to apply for 5 UK universities. How would u rate University of Warwick, City University, University of Kent, University of East Anglia and University of Southampton, from best to worst?

This post has been edited by YennVIP: Jun 30 2013, 11:02 PM

YennVIP

I am not familiar with UK universities. You might want to throw in Heriot-Watt into your list though.

There are a lot of programs under maths. It doesn't just have to be pure maths. I went to uWaterloo; you can see what they offer under the math faculty. Although I do understand that most universities lump it under BSc. You can also consider taking a minor to supplement yourself.

Again, yes it can help. But it may not be the best choice. Look at the UW list of programs there - you should be able to see other alternatives. And I am sure other universities have those similar programs.

I covered only Econs 101 and 102 for my degree (taken at INTI SJ). Statistics covers a majority of it, and I suppose followed by finance. But you will need the math background to work through those two areas.

This post has been edited by Crazy.SoT.Gila: Jun 30 2013, 11:46 PM

Yes, Heriot-Watt was in my list at first, but i threw it out of my list because of its location. Edinburgh is too far away from Cardiff where my brother is currently studying now and it would be inconvenient for my parents to come visit us, not to mention my sis will also be studying in UK soon.

Thanks for the information bout uWaterloo but i prefer to study in UK
*Thanks for answering my questions Crazy.SoT.Gila *

Anyone else have studied or currently studying AS degree in UK universities? Manchester University, University of Leceister, University of Southampton, which is the best? I need to set one of them as my 5th choice

This post has been edited by YennVIP: Jul 1 2013, 10:42 PM

[quote=YennVIP,Jun 30 2013, 10:59 PM]
[quote=Crazy.SoT.Gila,Jun 29 2013, 09:18 AM]


Most of the people i know who took Mathematics degree ended up being a lecturer. Even if they ended up in finance field, isn't it more worth it to just take Financial Mathematics degree? AS degree even covers part of Financial Mathematics and basic of accountancy, which is better than Mathematics degree (just dealing with numbers). So Mathematics degree is not that valuable imo even though i love maths

I want to take AS degree but didn't plan to become an actuary because AS degree covers a lil' bit of other fields such as finance, accountancy, investment management etc. It's good to understand part of the things that are in other courses and i can see which field i'm really interested in. So if i don't plan to become an actuary i still can learn a wide variety of things in AS degree that might help in my future career right?

I'm not really good in Econs but better in Maths and interested in Finance. If there's Maths, Statistics, Econs and Finance, how many percentage do they cover in an AS degree?

I'm currently studying A-levels and preparing to apply for 5 UK universities. How would u rate University of Warwick, City University, University of Kent, University of East Anglia and University of Southampton, from best to worst?

[/quote]

For your own sake, please do not study a degree in Mathematics. Mathematics at university is different from A levels altogether! Practice makes perfect no longer applies and Mathematical aptitude overulls. Take it from me YennVIP. I have studied Mathematics in the UK for 4 years and ended up almost jobless in Malaysia. Now, I am faced with another dilemma as I dislike finance which render my employment options more limited than ever.

I can't answer many of your questions but I could rate the universities (according to my personal view of course, not a widespread perception).

1) Warwick
2) City
3) Southampton
4) Kent
5) East Anglia

On a side note, a friend of mine is at UEA studying for her PhD in Applied Mathematics.

Just asking you to view it as a reference on what programs are available out there. Not in any way asking you to go to Waterloo.

I did a double degree in Actuarial & Commerce, where my commerce program covers Accounting and Finance.
Hard to do it with a double degree? Depends on which stage you are talking about;
1. For a Math/Actuarial combined degree, early stage would be a living hell having the need to crunch in abstract math and understand them at different context. But as you do a few intermediate courses in mathematical analysis and bit more theoretical stuff, it actually aids you for the Actuarial courses as you find concepts are relatively easier to pick up.

2. For a Finance/Actuarial type of combination, you wont really feel a very strong difference in early years except the fact that you probably need to do more statistics than the usual finance cohort. At the final stage, what you learn is probably the career wise skill-set that differs between finance (let it be quant type or just general capital markets) and the actuarial approach of doing things. In terms of content, up to the intermediate level, they are pretty darn similar if you talking about the quantitative type of finance.

3. Actuarial & Commerce or even Actuarial & Econs, they are probably the most arguably independent set you can ever get within the "commercial stream of businesses". Both program have different focus (some might say actuarial are clearly alot harder than the usual business courses, I will leave that up to your own judgment), you probably do very different stuff along the way of both programs, except some minor reference when insurance are mentioned in commercial context; or actuarial contents talk about management aspects/ the financial statement analysis. Yet, your final year is probably gonna be horrible, when you deal with the final year subjects for both. Its both gonna be time-consuming and tedious. Thats something people dont see it coming.

I have quite a group of friends that did mathematics in uni. I would have to say, apart from just being concerned about how much you can earn, what social prestige does your qualification entitles you for, speaking from the asian background culture; receiving an education is probably alot more than that.
I have among these friends, some that went into Astrophysics research, a few proceeded into their PhD, two of them went for Computer science & programming sort of stuff; while the remaining 5 go into Finance ranging from investment management up to investment banking.
Job Opportunities? Probably you just have to realise without any prior full-time working experience, jobs are not gonna find you, you need to do your research & find them.

Speaking from my own experience, within the 35 actuarial graduates in my cohort, I can hardly point out 10 that really move on to pursue an actuarial career (immediately). A minimal amount of them continued their part II education, a majority of them moved into finance while a significant amount of them move into insurance but not within the actuarial department. As usual, what did the top, brightest & very "money" motivated individuals go into?
They start their own business, trade stocks & engage themselves commercially.
True hard fact is that, working for someone else is not gonna earn you big bucks, if thats what one is concerned about, which is in line with the risk-return proportionality.

What sort of field can an AS degree field go into? Well, depends where you want to get into!
I have heard recent expansion of human Resource management in big firms to hire actuarial graduates for the statistical expertise. The typical finance career had always been a popular option between actuarial grads. Actuarial grads have the sufficient level of background to be trained and take on a statistician career.
Everything in insurance from underwriting to marketing put priority on actuarial talents alot as they understand how the mastermind thinks.
Its the skill set that serve to be of great value rather than what we learn.
I myself did Actuarial & Commerce in uni, but along with some decent mathematics & probability elective courses, I am able to now pursue my masters on mathematics research in the field of Statistical models and mathematical genetics.

The knowledge that an actuarial students is equipped with on statistics, is the reason why we can literally go into any field of interest as long as our skill is deemed useful. Of course thats if you are not picky in terms of
high salary, location, company culture, workload. Sometimes if you are to find yourself unable to pick a suitable job, question yourself about the factors, not the degree.

From time to time I do get job offers from Consumer research institutes, data-centres, and some smaller scale finance firms. So I dont see how actuarial/stats grads are having a hard time pulling off a job.


The last question,
Do you need to be good at anything at all? Not really. I suppose each student that applied to do actuarial science would atleast have a decent background for Calculus & preliminary algebras. Of course you will learn useful formulas & approaches along the way. Economics can be picked up in Uni.
the Mathematical reasoning is fairly minimal, and only used in respect to reasoning the proofs, which does not stand for what you usually need to do. Actuarial part I education with their focus on professional technical exams, had made it quite inline with the asian study culture. "practise makes perfect."
Yeap, the use of extensive exams somehow made exam structures & content somewhat predictable. Dont be surprised how by just repetitively focusing on past years can get you a decent grade.
of course some content are best examined on a coursework basis, yet there will be scaling issues. Eventually you will figure out what type of study person you are. But judging by the fact you are on A-levels, you should be fine.
The highest criteria for an actuarial degree would be persistence & patience. The coverage is sometimes so wide that if you want a good time in uni, its hard for you to be good at everything; but if you are persistent with your studies, you will pull it through. Dont get demotivated with weak marks; I have live examples of friends that was
extremely good when they first started, and somehow got stuck in 1 or 2 courses where they failed to score within their expectation and dropped out. Is it the ego or the call for interest? I dont know. Sometimes its just a hard transition, and dont be surprised to find yourself at ease after going through those horrible transitional courses.

I can go on and on about this. But if you have any specific questions.
I am happy to shed you some light before you commit yourself in a career, you are not quite sure what its about.

[[/B][

Is Actuarial Science degree heavier than Finance, Business Management, Investment Banking etc.? I'll learn the basics of other fields too right? What's the percentage of coursework and examination? What University were u in? Did u have a normal social life (sports and entertainment) while studying the degree?
well not really. actuarial science is basically the control of financial risk, or in a general sense, everything to do with the concept of insurance. the actuarial education is to cater the students need to understand all the risk dimensions pertaining insurance. Mathematics & Statistics is the structure, while finance, commerce and also economics are the contents. Conventionally actuarial courses are heavily weighted on exams, thats because it is how the profession works, to obtain membership from these actuarial institutes require you to clear countless papers. But in terms of university courses, it really depends on the sylabus coverage and how the lecturer decide its assessment.
I did all my uni in Australian national. I dont know what you mean by normal social life, or how our standards might differ. I am not one of those top-scorer, so casually I dont feel very loaded all the time. But as the finals are approaching, we do get a little tensed up. Afterall, university is really more than just a conventional school, its about networking, finding true self, and learn to manage things as an independent adult. Stress comes and goes when the workload & quizes pile up. which is perfectly normal. If you feel stressed up all the time, you probably need to re-evaluate your lifestyle and expectations.



Part I education means honours degree? What's part II and part III? I'm quite sure to further my studies in Actuarial Science degree cuz it seems worth it to train my critical thinking and stuffs while studying a wide variety of things(except science). I don't really aim for A LOT of money, i just want a standard high payment which professional people should have

I am not sure about the Actuarial Hons or no-Hons system, since the australian intepretation of Honours is very different from UK (well, literally in UK, most 3yr degree comes with hons.. thats another topic by itself).
Part II & Part III refers to the continuation of the actuarial examination for you to qualify as a certified fellow in the actuarial institute. Part II focuses alot on getting all the technical skills introduced in Part I, and synthesize to a real insurance scenario, pertaining the actuarial control cycles and focuses on the management aspects of actuarial controls. So be prepared for a decent amount of articles & essays. Part III puts on its emphasis on the professionalism conducts, ethics and commercial aspects of the actuarial industry. Here, candidates will also have to pick a specialization route e.g. Life Insurance, General Ins, Investments etc
If you are lucky and extremely talented, you can finish all the parts in 6 years time, thats the minimal time.



So apparently, i can go into any field(except science and accountancy) with an AS degree? It just depends on how i apply myself right. Got it

Frankly speaking, in a world today, degree is probably the very basic qualification to seek for employments.
Not just AS, in fact alot of degrees give you the same flexibility to "go into whatever you like" as long as it is not a highly technical job.
The reason why actuarial grads seems to be able to enter any industry is the fact that an actuarial degree is nothing very different from a classical statistic degree. Except of course, society always deem actuarial degree as a "glorified" statistics/math degree. when in fact, this group of statistician just happen to earn the most due to the profit channels in insurance businesses.
However, using what you learn and apply it to a distinctive new field/area is part of your skill. Some people just dont know how to bring the skill set across different disciplines.



How did they find u out? U applied for a job there or they came to offer u a job when u're still studying in ur uni? I heard some of my friends had a few job offers when they haven't even finish their degree.
Of course, like I said, you always have to establish the contact. Not being too picky, always leave you with lots of opportunities to explore with. From time to time, feel free to take aptitude assessments, and career tests to understand more about yourself that you are not aware of. Its normal that some bright students get headhunted even before graduating. But all these dont come without hard effort.

In AS, is it Stats>Maths>Finance>Econs? How much percentage coverage does each of them has? Btw i'm not really good in Econs but better in Maths and interested in Finance(Don't have a clue whether i'll be doing well in it).

Its a combination of finance, economics and lots of statistics. The math you need is fairly preliminary, just calculus and algebras. I cant really break down the portion for each. But the general guideline is that, not so much of accounting & economics, but a lot of statistics & finance, remember its everything about the fundamental insurance contents.




Can i have ur top5 suggestion for these UK Universities regarding to their AS degree: Uni of Warwick, Uni of Kent, City Uni, Uni of East Anglia, Heriot-Watt, Uni of Leceister, Uni of Southampton, Manchester Uni, Queen's Uni Belfast.
I have no 1st hand experience with any UK Universities. but I can give you some idea of what to look for based on the academic integrity & practicality of their course with respect to real actuarial work.
1. UCL
2. Warwick
3. Kent
4. Heriot-Watt


It is normal to feel anxious and excited with what you want to study in future.
However, I can almost assure you that as time goes by, your perception changes, and you will find yourself at times reevaluating things that you deem of great value. In fact, most of us would find ourselves doing things driven by the dynamic changes of our own choices, as well as the significant element of pure chance.
So dont try too hard laying down a path to be walked 10 years down the road. Focus on the short-term goals, and get the most out of it. Your parents might advice you otherwise due to the type of culture & society one is bought up with. but always remember, your talent does not cater specifically to just one area/industry. Spend some time and explore all your options.

@RyukA

Okay i think i have everything clear for now Thanks for the help!

Ryuka pretty much answered all of your question, but I've something small to add..
Personally, I would advice against going for an Actuarial Degree unless you're really interested in Actuarial Science.
Taking AS and not going into actuarial field is pretty much like taking ACCA but decided not to go in to accountancy field.
That being said, it doesn't mean that you can't find other jobs with an AS degree. There're still a lot of job opportunities.
But the question is, why AS? If you're interested in IB or finance, then take up financial engineering, investment-related degree etc.. AS is a very specific course which specialize on the insurance industry (in general). Hence, most of your knowledge learnt will not be applied directly (all knowledge can be applied indirectly... so, it's not to say that what you learnt will be wasted) in your working life..
I would suggest going for the course which you think will benefit you the most after graduating..

No i think it's not right to compare AS with ACCA. In AS, i'll be learning part of finance, investment management, insurance, economics and maybe the basic of accountancy. ACCA is just about accounting, its more specific than AS.

Why AS? Because i've never learned any of these stuffs and i'm not sure which one i'm capable of. I'll be introduced to a wide variety of arts field stuffs and by learning part of them i'll be able to know what i'm more interested in. Despite the knowledge i'll gain, i can develop my critical thinking in this degree. I'm sure there's lots of thing that i'll learn in AS degree will be useful in the future. It just depends on how i apply the skills i learn.

Thanks for ur piece of advice, i appreciate it

masih ada orang tak mau dengar...

seriously, if you want to be introduced to a wide variety of arts field, you might as well go for Finance/Economics degree.

it may not seem a big deal wasting 2 years learning sciences (in form 4 and 5) and then not use it for the rest your life. it's an entirely different story when you waste 3 years doing a degree and going down a different path.

No, it's not a perfect comparison for AS and ACCA. It's just a way of saying i studied A, B, C ended up doing X, Y, Z.

AS is very very very specific (as mentioned by someone). just because i have to learnt economics and finance, doesn't make me more "exposed" to other "arts" related field.

$0.02 don't be stubborn. talk to some real life people and instead of reading about how much ppl earn as an actuary...

1. Every field can earn a living one way or the other. preference is a matter of personal choice. Nothing very objective when it comes that. Besides, I dont see the connection between picking up wide variety of arts or social science subject being linked up with finance/econ. To be exact, everything is connected in a practical sense, but that doesnt mean one is more favourable to the other in an absolute manner.

2. I know bunch of high profile leaders, academicians, and senior management staffs that are working in a field not directly related to their undergraduate degree. There's no waste if you know what you want, or what you can gain from that program, because every step does take you closer to what you really can/want to do. So, I dont see that as a primary concern, because you would be darn sure, you will either get a feeling that you might be wrong at some point in time as your career progress, or you might just live with it.

3. Yes. It is a valid comparison. It was referred to the act of taking on a professional qualification education that cater to that specific profession, yet end up not practicing that profession. You can quote me bunch of business leaders (like Tony Fernandez) that had ACCA yet did not practise accounting; while I can also give you examples of insurance CEO that hold actuarial qualification yet does not practise as an actuary. These pointless examples still doesnt disregard the truth of that statement.

4. The more you learn, the broader you go, the more exposure you gain. AS is specific in a sense it is objectively catered for all the issues and risk dimensions pertaining the insurance business. Specific in terms of skill set? no. Skills that you gain from an AS degree, can be intepreted as a good blend of problem based solving, engineering, computational, critical and analytical reasoning skills.

1. Depends, on the school, on the timing. If you're talking about double degrees, you're talking about Australia, and they have 2 semesters you might start in. For at least some cases, in the past, it may have been easier to do a double degree if you enrolled during a bad semester, making Actuarial/Economics, or Commerce, or Finance, easier than straight Actuarial. That was fixed so straight Actuarial degrees are easier now. But still, Actuarial + Econ/Comm/Finance/Stats is not much more difficult (Stats>Econ/Finance, Comm depends on major) compared to straight Actuarial, but Law probably is, Maths definitely is harder.

3. Mktg and Business don't really have requisites.

In Actuarial you only do up to Intermediate Macroeconomics (considered 3rd year by NUS/American standards), and basic Intro Microeconomics. So you only need to be average at Econ (at least a 60/65 by Australian standards).

The bulk of the work is Statistics, either Applied Stats or Mathematical Statistics. Given 8 classes a year / 4 every semester, I have in the entire degree only 1 pure Math (not Stats related) class, 3 Econ classes, 1 Accounting class, 5 compulsory Finance classes (although 1 is Mathematical Finance), 4 electives (they don't have to be Business related), the rest are Stats.

Overall Warwick is clear first, Soton second. For Actuarial City is clear first, Soton is not bad, Warwick doesn't have all exemptions in 4 years but it should be a good school.

This. Aptitude is more important. You might understand a class reasonably well (say more than half) and get 70-90+ in assignments or mid term exams, but end up failing the final exam because you couldn't do three quarters of it. While someone who could do about half the exam ends up with an A. It applies to Maths or Physics at A Level or Pre U too, to the extent that it scales with ability (someone capable of enrolling in a Maths degree won't feel that way during A Level, but other people not so good at Maths might).

Understand that at university, most all the people doing what you do, your peers, are also better at Math than average. But if you can beat them, by just a little bit, you can get As and Bs.

This post has been edited by LightningFist: Jul 8 2013, 07:26 PM

By questioning you "Why AS?" I'm implying you hv a misconception of thinking AS has a wide variety of arts field stuffs. I'm implying that no, you won't gain a wide variety of arts field stuffs. It's more like touch and go only, which other courses (such as finance, investment etc) offers as well..

I re-iterate, AS is a very specific course. You will spend about 60-80% (depending on Uni) learning stuffs that is specifically meant for those interested in going the Actuarial world. By studying AS, you will at most know the elementary part of what you're interested in only.

If you are not interested in AS to begin with, I see no reason to spend 60-80% of your time studying things that you will not be able to use directly..