Do you really rely on a template and the pre-set repetition and set ranges?

I've been a user of cookie cutter programs like Madcow 5x5 (which reaped phenomenal results) and Boris Sheiko's powerlifting program (helped me bench 115KG'S man!)

Anyway, my days of powerlifting is pretty much over and I'm fully into Olympic weightlifting now. What I've learned is the importance of fixing your weakest points. I thought long and hard about why Chinese training method.

First we'll go with our snatches and clean and jerks. Then on that day, if we're particularly crappy in a portion one lift, we'll do more of that portion with other supplementary work. Then we move to strength movements like clean pull (basically a deadlift with a triple extension) and squats and overhead push presses.

I find with this method, we almost eliminate bottlenecks and still manage to strengthen the entire body. This is also the method that Russians programmed which Westside Powerlifters have copied and implemented into powerlifting.

What's your take and opinion on programs and all that?

I began to think that sets and repetitions were bullshit about 6 months ago, and have since seen my numbers soar. Nowadays, if say I'm squatting, and I'm struggling at the 4th rep, I make a promise to myself to hit a 5th rep for the next set no matter how tough it becomes. If I struggle at the 2nd rep, I make a promise to hit a 3rd rep for the next set. If my mind says "Okay, enough" I say "One more final set, with ONE extra rep!"

In fact, my routine can look like this when logged;
160KG x 4

The improvements have been tremendous strength wise. Technique wise, I'm still fixing it, so .....that's another story.

How are you guys basing your training ?

hmmmmm.... how do u define ur goals pizza boy.... the majority of bbers...dont really give a squat about strength... they are going for the look....
bulging muscels....

i am currently basing my training on feeling......i have a standard cookie program that i modified to my taste...schedule and lifestyle....

i would say i follow the program 80%...there are days when i just dont have the time to do 100% but i make it up on another training day..

i am seeing wonderful gains.... feel stronger...although slower...and bigger...muscles are getting very well defined....

my goal was never strength....i am looking for asthetics and shape....and generally being fit....

b4 i get bashed for this...let me say..... strength was secondary...(Cept my legs...that one im pushing ...because of basketball).........

cmon..everyone wants to look good right...ive always been skinny and decided to do sumthing about it..and heck..it works... ...

i may not bench the most or squat the most..but im definitely getting to my goals......


so far...am waiting for 20kgs more of plates.. my bench has been at 50kgs for 2 weeks ... .yea!!

basically...my program is based on undeveloped parts...i want an all round well developed body....from my legs to back to chest to biceps....
so now ...im focussing on my calfs....chest and abs....
and also my back...traps and lats...

hmm.... for small dudes like me (with weak str to sustain heavy weights).... i need to increase strenght 1st b4 i have start bulking. tats my assumption....

i might be wrong....
but due to the time spend on increasing my str capabilities.... i might have already TONE UP a lot, while getting slightly bigger.

I'm a lazy noob.
All I know is just to follow a tried and tested programme for ectomorphs and don't fxck with it.
And since I'm not training for competition (I just want to put on some meat and perform better in casual sports), so I can afford to be a lazy bum... I don't like to think too much for training. Simplicity is beauty.

It's my diet that suck anyway. 1 year and only 3kg. That's what I need to concentrate on, instead of meddling with what not programmes.

Pizzaboy,
You mind elaborating more about the difference btwn Western and Chinese training methods?
i'm curious to learn. Who knows, i might get to apply some principles into my normal workouts.

I am a fat dude.
I just started gym around middle of february.
I do not follow any method anyway.
I just do wat i like. if i want to do arms, i do, if i wan chest, i do.
I may suck at it and take longer time.
But oh well, thanks to some advise by pizzaboy, i think i am improving.
Thanks for the advises.

I just go for wat i feel best. Most of the time, i go for lots of weights.
I think my answer would be, i do wat i think i can. =.=

john yeap... u cant do the way u r doing right now.....

end of the day u probably dont know what u are doing and dont know where u will end up...

its important to have a goal and a goal plan... if u simply go gym and simply do things..

hman nature is such that u will keep doing things that u can do the heavyest and only that part will be developed....

in my opinion..u will benefit from weight loss more than muscle building.....

if u follow what u feel like doing all the time.......u gonna look pretty weird in one ear...

no wonder u got problem with ur elbow or sumthing....if u dont balance ur training...u will stress one part of ur body too much.....


have a plan mate...it might just be the thing that makes it for u.......it did for me...i was gymming 1 year without a plan and almost screwed my body..... and even then i was having a 3 part split...so ...yea.......

actually my arm was fakap 5 years ago... =.=
now actually recovering but on and off i fak it up again.
hmmm... true...
but i dont usually have a routine.
if i feel i can do biceps and triceps today, i do...
if i feel i can do chest today i do...
but i do in 3 sets and reps of 4-6 (max ot)

maybe i will write out a schedule or routine. =.=

yea... im sure u will improve a lot once u r in month 2 or 3 of ur routine.. if u follow it la.. post it here.. i got a lot of help for mine... now im stabilizing my routing .... ..


good luck mate.!! keep us updated on ur progress.....

if u r low on motivation...u can feed of the many members here..its what i do...
see their weights and how much they are improving make me BURN!!!!

It's just that many people are so caught up with the perfect routine, which doesn't exist. I'm just suggesting, that perhaps it's best to listen to one's body and lift according to what your body's saying. IF it's saying "I'm feeling strong" then hammer it with more weights and get some good rest and grow.

My goal's power and strength, but muscle growth does help assist in the chase. Of course I want to grow more muscle, and better my CNS at recruiting it.

You're doing it right, IMHO with the wrong mentality.
You get stronger, as a result of getting bigger. You get bigger, as a result of getting stronger.
It's connected. You don't have to get stronger, and then grow some size or vice versa. You're actually doing both.
I'm getting stronger, but I can maintain my weight. This is because of caloric intake control.


Western-Extremely concerned about the perfect routine. Constantly seeking the "best" rep range and weight in order to achieve their goals.

Chinese-Works more on the weaknesses to eliminate bottlenecks. Template may say A-B-C-D, but if there's an issue with "C", maybe "C" will be emphasized, or "F" will be implemented to assist with the proper execution of "C". In BB'ing terms;

Leg day maybe; Squat, Leg Extensions, Reverse back extensions, Leg press. But if the bodybuilder, finds himself wanting to work a bit more on the quads , he may incorporate front squats instead for a change. They can change change their exercises. Close to Westside Barbell's highly marketed methods.

hahaha... i will just envy on our pizzaboy can de... looking at him doing the squats i was like wtf! =.=
i am much heavier but he is MUCH stronger.
haha... comparing a nissan skyline with nissan sunny. =.= (nissan sunny driver here btw)

my record for bench press for 1RM is errr... pizzaboy, pls reconfirm this coz i barely remember. Was it at 85kg or 90kg?
squat 5RM at 80kg.
deadlift (wrong method maybe) but manage to pull up 120kg. havent tried more

im not relying on any templates. but i will make sure i ll train on every parts in one week.
if i feel one bodyparts is lagging, i will train 2x a week for that part. im very simple...lol

Chow

hehe... i am doing something like wat u do... but no routine... just feel like which part is ready to go hard, then i go hard on it...
but now will do more whole body workout.
squats and deadlifts. =.=

Sounds very logical to me. I thought that's how all oly lifters around the world train.
I've not reach the level that bottleneck begin to show up yet. But I'm keeping this concept in mind.
It'll prove to be useful someday when I hit a threshold.

Anyway, how has the Chinese method worked for you?

This post has been edited by iamyuanwu: Mar 23 2009, 02:19 AM

Working out without warming up?

Dan,
I didn't mean cramp or pulls during workout. (I do warm up)

I meant during other times when I'm not working out. Such as when i'm bending over to pick up a pencil or what not.

hmm....chek on your electrolite and vitamin levels...
take supplements if necessary...
if u fail to replenish ur electrolytes sufficiently...u will get cramps....i used to get them too !!

NOLAH!
You know there are MANY countries where the lifters follow a routine like bodoh lidat.

THe Chinese concept has driven me to be more powerful. The difficulty level, is nothing you can imagine. It's a lot of mental fighting. After 1 hour your body just slows down, but my strength training part only comes in at a 1.30 hours in training. And that lasts for an hour. SO try to imagine how tough it is fighting just to go on.

Anyway, back to topic of whether routines are really that important, and if you guys do implement it.

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Added on March 23, 2009, 11:18 amOh and stretch....after you train. Isometric stretching for 10-15 minutes.

This post has been edited by pizzaboy: Mar 23 2009, 11:18 AM

not true...its part of bodybuilding. or else you will see them throw words like this :
"apa angkat ringan ni? nenek aku pun boleh angkat"


Chow

I followed some of the workouts in Men's Health, & so far I've been very pleased with my progress. I've just finished a 12-week total body power training program & I've managed to bring down my body fat % down to 20% (from 26%). & now I'ma start on another 12 week program, modified from the original workout program to suit my goals. Weights was part of my cycling training program before I quit in 2000, & I've been going to the gym on & off since then. But the progress I've seen for the past year since I followed the program as suggested by Men's Health has been better than my cycling years. So I guess now I'm doing it right la.

One simple reason why routine is required is that the routine will determine your ultimate goal,you can't cut and expect to get big and vice versa.