That's why I was wondering about this so called retcon job when no lore was changed for the benefit of the sequel.

Considering that all three games were planned initially, I doubt Bioware is that sloppy in their writing.

This post has been edited by Yuki Ijuin: Aug 14 2010, 08:41 PM

I am not sure about the achievements but I am pretty sure you can decide not to wake them up yep.

Makes the team weaker for the final mission though, more chance to have people die since both Grunt and Legion are considered "tough" characters for the way the system calculate if people die or not (like on the part where the team holds off the collectors while you go kill the final boss)

About the Geth, H@H@ was just saying that it felt a bit "cheap" and quite a "standard" in lots of movies or novels to have the "bad guys who isnt actually a bad guy and ends up helping you" kind of character or group.

While I personally liked the twist about the Geth and Legion character, like H@H@ said, nothing is now stopping Bioware of using this card again and in ME3 come out with some collector/prothean NPC coming and saying "Oh, these collectors, nar, they are only a small heretic groups, for us we are cool".
That would be the same as with the Geth, but it would indeed feels a bit "cheap"

I also think it was all planned by Bioware and if t stays like this I would say it was interesting.
Can't wait for ME3 really

This post has been edited by Gormaz: Aug 14 2010, 09:02 PM

You definitely can toss Legion to Cerberus and get some credits for it. (although I later reloaded that part cuz I wanted to get Legion. It is funny how the funniest character in ME2 for me are both AIs, EDI and Legion)

The krogan I'm not sure. Don't really like him anyways. Where's Wrex?

Gormaz: Well they already pulled that with Saren. XD

Shepard. Wrex.

I miss Wrex too to be honest. Easily my favourite character in ME.

"Do you think there's any fish in that pond? I'm hungry." <3

Well, the idea behind a retcon is that it makes the previous lore "work" with the current one. The retcon may or may not be realistic, but is still a retcon nonetheless.

The retcon in ME2 may not need to be Crisis on Infinite Earth kind of retcon (Where literally the universe is rewritten to accommodate tie all storylines together), but its still one whether it appears logical. Plus, they could've at least made it look like they actually wrote it in properly by fleshing it out more extensively instead of just having Legion explain that bit in a couple of conversations.

I'm not mad that they did it, just that it looked so transparent and kinda made all that "hate" towards the Geth made in the first game seem ridiculously cheap.

Considering the "hate" was due to the ignorance on the part of humanity and others towards the geth, it's pretty realistic to me. Plus being isolated like damn monks for the past 300 years and taking over the quarian homeworld doesn't help your image lol.

That's why its a good retcon... It doesn't create any logical fallacies or loopholes. It works.

The thing about Western storytelling is that foreshadowing is an important element whenever it comes to any form of surprise or twist. It can be so apparent as to reveal the surprise or so subtle that it could be missed completely... But it HAS to be there or the audience will just deem it as a "Deus Ex Machina" moment (Ok, that's not the term, but its close to the meaning in spirit) where it just seems like the writers wrote themselves into a hole and needed a quick fix to dig themselves out. Foreshadowing elements beforehand basically ensure the audience that the writers intended for this to happen.

Its something that only Western storytellers use and Asians rarely do (Which is why some ppl can accept all the really stupendous twists from the Metal Gear games while others can't). Bioware obviously follow the former since they did similar things with Revan in Knights of the Old Republic.

There was practically no foreshadowing in the first ME that the Geth weren't wholly evil (Even dropping a simple "Geth worshipper" who thought they were misunderstood would've worked). Hence the reason I call it a cheap retcon.

Yep and thinking forward with it, if they start playing this card, you can basically explain anything.
The "we didnt tell you it wasnt like this" card is the most powerful story telling stuff really:

Asari actually controlling the Reapers? THEY DIDNT TELL YOU THEY WERENT!

Geth being actually ewoks in cyber-armor? THEY DIDNT TELL YOU THEY WERENT!

Miranda actually a man? THEY DIDNT TELL YOU SHE WASNT! (well if you romanced her I am pretty sure you would have found out but otherwise not ^^)

The Illusive man actually being Conrad Verner in disguise? THEY DIDNT TELL YOU HE WASNT! (Oh man that would be awesome )

I used to play quite a bit of paper&pencil rpg before and this kind of trick card is what my game master used to call a "Shut up, it's magic" where you kind use some "explanation" to tie up a story line or explain some fact happening in the story that somehow does not make much sense but help stuff move along.

While for Geth it was, as H@H@ said, am interesting good twist, and I liked it personally, I do hope they won't rely on this too much in ME3 as it gets old pretty fast.
You end up trusting nothing and it makes the universe feels inconsistent.

This post has been edited by Gormaz: Aug 15 2010, 07:01 AM

Finally part way of playing through Mass Effect 2, and I have to say... <3 Tali.

Also, I suddenly felt a bit bad about killing Wrex in ME1. Grunt isn't as interesting as him.

You... Killed... Wrex? *Murders*

Well I usually keep my mind open when playing through games with more elaborate lore. So I usually accept most new ideas they put in.

The power of assumption is the strongest in people and it is also the most dangerous when manipulated.

I remember that the dialogue option gave me no choice, I think. Ashley shot him...

Your paragon or renegade level wasn't high enough then.

u need certain level of paragon/renegade to persuade wrex or else he will die
but if u do the 'family armor' quest before then u can keep him alive easily

correct me if i'm wrong. just finished ME1 last week =p

Yep, it's either a Parangon/Renegade level needed (you either reason him or basically talk him down) or if you did the family armor or not.

Wrex is pure awesome, I killed Ash without hesitation but definitely would have been pissed off if Wrex died

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy ash?

She was racist really, or at least strongly pro-human.
She is kinda like a female Illusive Man without the money

Didnt really liked her. One has to die anyway

This post has been edited by Gormaz: Aug 17 2010, 09:16 AM

Storywise, its a really nice plot twist (As it further explores the themes of "no true evil other than differences of opinion").
But the way they did it, just came off a bit amateurish... The kind of crap that an inexperienced DM would do when suddenly one of your NPC buddies turned on you.

Also, anyone who had to *murder* Wrex didn't play the game right (Which is, you have to be a really opinionated loony. No middle ground in ethical decision-making).

Aww... but I did try to go Paragon whenever I can. But I'm really liking how some stuff gets carried over to ME2.

Best dilemma to have in ME2... who to choose... The Perfect Woman, the Botak Psycho or the girl in the environmental suit... hmm. Or stay faithful to Liara, who's gone a bit psycho too. Fun.

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Added on August 17, 2010, 1:17 pmI got a sudden urge to play all over again to see all the Renegade options.

This post has been edited by SweetPuff: Aug 17 2010, 01:17 PM

I sometimes choose Renegade choices to see, then reload to follow my Parangon choice.

Punching journalists is damn fun >_>

Can one use a controller to play ME2? I know that there are patches, but is there ant that really make use the whole pc interface of the game? And oso, can use ps3 controller?