Uncle WW,
IR
I am lost when we come to electronics per se, but 2yrs or so ago I did dwell into Night Vision Devices for a while.
Most IR devices are at the wavelength where it is near-invisible to the human eye.
I said near-invisible cos' there must be a efficiency compromise for the picture tube. (Picture tubes work better in the visible spectrum.)
In essence, the manufacturer can make it invisble to the human eye but the picture tube that picks up the image works less efficiently.
You can check this out if anyone has a NVD , turn it on and view from the side of the IR source (there is a red tinge which is visible).
PLS do not view directly into IR source, it may damage yr eye sight. The last I recall there were Chinese cos who were beginning to make totally invisble IR cameras for CCTVs. Also the picture tube is slowly giving way to CCD, CMOS whcih will bring down the overall cost eventually.

As to yr question if there is any effect on birds? I did a quick query here below.
http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/17B.html
Seems there is still many gaps in our understanding of bird vision.
Only thing certain is that birds posses more sophisticated vision than human.
Also there is a mention of nocturnal birds like owls may have sensitivity to IR.
This brings up an opportunity...can we turn on a IR light source to keep owls away?
If it works will certainly be advantageous to a spot light in terms of power consumption for folks off the power grid & on alternative power source like solar power or wind power.

Ultrasonic
I havent done any research on this. BUt my gut feel is that since swiftlets uses echolation which is sound wave, ultrasonic MAY have an effect.
Just my gut feel. Need more research.

My 2 bits.

Sounds to me 2 scenarios here
1)Owls getting into BH and...disaster
2)Owls attacking swiftlets in mid flight into/out of BH

I recall someone mention long ago (maybe V1) trees around standalone BH that encourage owls
That is borne out by watching TV-lah..they stay (in the trees, where else?) within sight of he prey for a while before they attack.

Other than deterrence at the LMB with spikes, electric fences, fishing line (also heard some attach treble hooks on the fishing line).
I am wondering the feasibility of wrapping/hanging old trawler nets around the tree foliage closest to the LMB.
This was used by a friend who runs a fish farm to capture wildboar digging up the pond bunds. They merely hang up the nets on bamboo loosely. Upon contact the whole net collapses and the boar is soon wrapped up and the boar is given a good lecture and released...into the pot.
This of course if you sayang the tree and not want to cut it down, the other is to ensure no trees around the LMB.
Can work? This friend mentioned that he purchases the nets for abt Rm30 per bag. Old-about-to-be-discarded, need to do some repair-lah! Buy cheap monofilament fishing lines from yr local tackle shop to do the repair. Once the owls are caught in the net, you retrieve and decide it's fate. They're abt 4x4 inches so only bigger birds (like turkey, goose or maybe missing jet engines) will get entangled.

Say... do owls attack the swiftlets or get into the BH during th day?

The only owls I have sighted now a days (other than on TV) were during the day.
As a kid I used to lastik (catapult) them at night with my old man holding the torch light as my old man believes it will bring death in the family if left alone.
my 2 bits.

Also I think, the internal sound attarcts them owls.
When I was playing with sounds at home I attracted crows, they are thieving predators too.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Feb 3 2010, 12:58 AM

Dunsun
Alternatively you can keep a collapsible reclining chair in yr car & use it whenever you feel 'sadistic'.
Plus you can also have yr favourite drink in one hand while reclining in yr chair.
No worries, you will still continue to look crazy...
You can occasional look down at the mirror on the ground to remind yourself how good you look.
If any keh-poh folks ask... say a few words or laugh or growl to yrself in the mirror & then continue watching the birds.
This will ensure they do not disturb you again,...or ever wonder again.

Cant offer any opinion on the bats cos' I think we aim to create a cave environment. Once we get that, bats like it too. I think in the natural environment, bats & swiftlets share caves. Would like to listen to sifus' opinion.
It was shared in an earlier post (if recollection doesnt fail me) of a similar experience.
Just cant remember if a solution was offered then in the post.
My inference is that echolation is used only selectively (same way you use yr high beam for night driving).
This is borne out by the fact that when you see them in flight, you do not hear the clacking sound all the time.
Me thinks that birds at the point of going in dont use echolation (same way, you dont check for obstacles when you enter yr own room).
IMHO they fly in thru habit/conditioning and then turn on their ecolation in the dark to get to their own nest.

If it was my bird house, I will remove it immediately, and if need be, will install the partition incrementally ie maybe 3 inches at a time.
My 2 bits.

Sifus,
I humbly seek your comments on my proposed BH design.
Thank you in advance.



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aeiou228,
thks for yr comments.
It's only recently that I am convinced of this 15' design. It came abt from a fren's fren who does BH contracting work. He also mantains the BH he builds with a retainer fee ie for a fee he will replace any broken stuff for an agreed period of time, mostly speakers frm his experience. He mentioned that when he finds time enuff to build his own BH he will build it 15'. He told of seeing fledgings taking their 1st flight go splat onto the floor due to insufficient height in 10' BHs. It make sense to me. IMHO we mostly design with considerations to adult birds cos' they will be the brood stock. Me thinks I need to think abt the new fledgings too.

I have heard of folks building 7' (mezzanine as you call it) tall BHs (read it in a blog, also a BH contractor). Also there are actual BHs of shipping containers (8.5') in a blog. I have actually done some research in terms of cost and design...you can reduce the cost by 50% for a 20' x 80' x 3 storey, if it works. My concern is heat & noise insulation and of course my new 'belief' of a tall wall for BH.
Anyone here know of a successful BH done up with shipping containers? The example in the blog, only has 1 nest. Also not as cheap as mentioned in the blog. I contacted the local containers suppliers and was given a ballpark of RM5K for a 20 footer with insulation. These are real shipping containers and not those that are fabricated from corrugated sheets used for construction site offices. Google 'ISBU' (short for Intermodal Steel Building Units), they are used quite extensively overseas.

Also, I plan to design a collapsible scaffolding on castors that I can roll along. Normal scaffolding 6', so double height 12' feet. I am definitely above 3' tall. So no problem-lah. Just afraid that the birds will fly into me when I am so high up!! Also there are 3' scaffolding, so I can make it 9' if necessary.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Feb 8 2010, 11:00 PM

ahchard,
Items for my DIY kit
1)Any box to fit all in a nice portable package (some folks use document case u get from stationary shop)
2)12V Amplifier (I had to buy cos' my car stereo still run on cassette tapes) (RM120)
3)tweeters - (RM3-4 each)
4)speaker wire (RM6/metre)
5)power cable (dun use the speaker wire!!!!, though speaker wires are supposed to have less resistance, the ones you get frm J Pasar sort of just heat up, so I use the cheapo ones frm electrical shop (very cheap, a few RM per roll , enuff to fly kite with)).
Just remember if you are putting yr amplifier in the box, they get hot after half hr, so keep it slightly open to ventilate.
6)thumb drive for bird call

Good luck





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Wow, I didnt realise this is going to be so much fun chasing away so many diff types of unwanted guests.
Looks to me I will needing a blowpipe too
thks for the warning.

Now I need to put on my thinking cap to see if I can AVOID such pests instead of having to deal with them after they get in.
One thing that comes to mind is something Dunsun mentioned.. ie slippery material wrapped around the BH for those crawlies.
If connected to TNB power, maybe some form of physical obstacle around the cable. After all now adays they use the insulated power cable anyway, shd be safe enuff to do something like that.
Just dun know how to avoid the bats.
I am still thinking of the infrared lighting connected to a PIR sensor.
If you have the PIR sensor facing out, it shd trigger before it gets into the BH.
Or maybe something physical like a mist net (I have seen Perhilitan use them to do bird sampling).
The nets will take care of both bats and owls.
Just need to figure a way to automate the timed deployment.
Or maybe someone with some good electronic experience can fabricate a timer triggered auto-gate of light material like wire-mesh.
That ought to sell amongst us, ANY TAKERS?
Ting! Ting! another idea, those fish pellet dispensers use in commercial fish ponds.
Those can be ripped apart for the timer and motor.
I may try DIY this someday when the need arises.

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Added on February 9, 2010, 1:10 amRaymondetc,
thks for yr comments.
"1) reduce the ceiling height to say 12ft of 10ft?"
My thinking was that most contractors quote by the floor space, height is never mentioned, maybe they will factor in additional for a 15' height.

"2) run your staircase through the LAL hole, this shall save you one wall per floor (short side)"
I dont want any obstruction in the nesting area and also cos' of the way contractors quote as in pt 1. Additional wall may not add on to cost.

"3) do away with the small observation room/lounge at the top floor"
It's a nice-to-have thing, not at all necessary. But then, what the heck, we need some luxury too at the end of the day. Have some friends over for drinks and a nice view of the surrounding.

"4) use corrugated zince roof (rather than concrete slap), but some shall say security issue, but since it's a stand alone, it's quite difficult to climb up to the roof. As a thief, i'll most probably enter by breaking the door, or asking the owner to open up(with force of course)"
Yes, it's security consideration, I know of a shophse BH that is for sale in the P Klg area. Owner sort of 'give-up' due to the frequent thefts thru the roof. This BH is also termite infested.
One consideration is to use metal trusses (newer hses use that) to avoid termites. That still leaves thermal insulation to deal with. My neighbor just had his roof changed due to termite infestation, cost RM30K for trusses and new tiles. I figured that amt will buy me a concrete roofing with less of a concern over theft thru roof.

"5) do a 2 storey rather than a 3 storey"
Yes, I am still considering a half size BH of say 25' x 40' x 3 storey and expand side ways when need arises. But not 2 story to 3 story. That will be too much disturbance to existing birds. Also that will be like a new BH as the birds will need to get used to a new LMB at a diff height. (see Swiftlailai sharing).

"6) do a double/tripper tier nesting plank (apartment style)"
Wah, very greedy -ah! Definitely when my BH spills over.

"7) do a Dog Kennel entrance, most probably since it's in an agriculture land, double that as a roving area, this shall free up the "open roof" area so you can put up more nesting plan?"
Yes, that's a good idea, thks. I will mull over it a while. It helps with rain getting in too.
I have another design with a sort of DK but doesnt double as a roving area though.

My primary objective is not so much the cost (though important) but what I think the birds will like (gathered frm this forum and 2 books)
Then only cutting the unnecessary for cost consideration.

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Added on February 9, 2010, 1:33 amaeiou228,
1)thks, took me a day to make the test kit.
2)Yes, I can see that now. I intended the mobile scaffolding to straddle the full width of the BH, just dun know if it will be unyielding to wheel such a big contraption in the BH running over piles of guano. I have 4.5' on each side of the LAL to play with. Need to imagine this further if the scaffolding can be strengthened w/o a centre support when I wheel it over the LAL.
thanks again.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Feb 9 2010, 01:33 AM

I use Google Sketchup (it's free).
Nice features
1)You can make shadows fall for diff times of the day so you can roughly gauge the brightness in the BH.
2)You can also overlay yr BH from Sketchup onto the actual spot in Google Earth.



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thks,
My personal safety will not be compromised.
There will be hand rails for the staircase & circumference railing for the LAL.

u r welcome.
"raking in millions, give la the contractors some job!"
I dun hv such high hopes. I expect the price will drop with so many BHs coming into production soon.
If I just keep my retirement investment money above inflation I will be happy.
Like most of us, I have plans for the remaining of the land which is the fun part of this whole exercise.

"obstruct sound path"
This is something I may need to think abt.

thks for the rest of yr comments.

Tweeter thks for yr comments.

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Added on February 10, 2010, 1:26 pmWW,
thks for yr advice.
If I stay with the design, I will very likely go abt the maint/harvesting with a safety harness.
I use safety harness in my other hobby up in trees/hides etc.
Also I am in the dark all the time.
So safety is not something I will take lightly.
I will attempt a scaffolding gurney design to share as a safety option in this forum for the industry.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Feb 10 2010, 01:26 PM

I was thinking something like this.
With castors, it shd be around 7', the scaffolding is 6'.
There are half scaffolds of 3', so you can mix and match and build up as needed for yr BH dimension & design.
You can also add on a pulley sustem where you just pull yrself along w/o having to climb down to push the gurney.
If you want some more fun, you can fabricate a manual winch or motorised winch to pull you along.
You will have to figure out if this is feasible.
I figure there will be a need to have guides on the floor to guide it along.
Also you can hook yrself with a safety harness onto the gurney if you can build it sturdy or have a cable at on the ceiling where you can hook yr safety harness.
Since it's modular you can dismantle for storage at a convenient corner of each floor.
Just initial thoughts for now, maybe you guys can think of better ways with this.
The crossbars I suggest you fabricate yr own as the commercial ones are flimsy. a 2"x3" ('kok-chai')/wood is a good replacement.
Please use at yr own risk & I take no responsibility for yr safety from yr own fabrication.

PS cant load my pic as there's a storage problem on the LowYat site.
Will try upload tomorrow.

PS2 The storgae problem still exist, so you will need to download here
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk287/s...ng_gurney_1.jpg

This post has been edited by Cergau: Feb 11 2010, 09:07 AM

swiftlailai,
thks for yr comments.
I may adopt a dog kennel yet.
I will stay with 15' if the contractor doesnt make a fuss or the additional cost is marginal.
I will hv the option of a mezzanine floor plus condo-type NP, (2 possible expansion methods) all w/o having to mess with the BH structure.

Thks seeseng,

To all Chinese forumers,
Wishing you all
Gong Xi Fa Cai.
May your BH/s bring you an abundance of top quality nests.

Latest on 1GP
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/bm/news_lite.php?id=476151

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Added on February 19, 2010, 10:05 amtomytan,
Thks for yr input.
I hope the models like it enuff to stay a while
I will build them the nest personally

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Added on February 19, 2010, 10:10 amDunsun,
Thks.
Am sure you will be able to incorp the changes in yr next BH.

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Added on February 19, 2010, 10:20 amglobalexm,
thks for the input.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Feb 19 2010, 01:16 PM

This is shaping into yet another nightmare.
I copy here ref extracted from a PutraJaya net or something (dun know why National Land Code is not in the AG site???)
I have put the relevant clauses in bold.

CATEGORY : AGRICULTURE
Implied conditions affecting land subject to the category "agriculture"
115. (1) Where any alienated land is subject by virtue of any provision of this Act to the category "agriculture", the following implied conditions shall, subject to sub-section (3), apply thereto-
(a) that no building shall be erected on the land other than a building or buildings to be used for one or more of the purposes specified or referred to in sub-section (4);
(b) that a bona fide commencement of cultivation of the land shall be made within twelve months of the relevant date;
© that the whole area of the land, other than any part thereof-
(i) occupied by or in conjunction with a building (whenever erected) used for one or more of the purposes, specified or referred to in sub-section (4), or
(ii) used for any of the purposes mentioned in paragraph (e) of that sub-section, or any other purpose which the State Authority may specially authorise,
shall be brought fully under cultivation within three years of the relevant date;
(d) that the area referred to in paragraph © shall be maintained and cultivated according to the rules of good husbandry; and
(e) that the said area shall be continuously cultivated:
Provided that the condition specified in paragraph (e) shall be regarded as complied with in the case of any area so long as any period during which less than the whole thereof is cultivated does not exceed twelve months.
(2) In sub-section (1) "relevant date" means the date on which the land became subject to the category:
Provided that, where any land becomes subject to the category on its amalgamation with other land already so subject, the date on which a register document of title to the amalgamated area is first registered shall become the relevant date as respects the whole of that area.
(3) The conditions specified in sub-section (1) shall be implied in the case of any land to the extent only that they are not inconsistent with any express conditions to which the land is for the time being subject.
(4) The purposes referred to in paragraph (a) of subsection (1) are the following-
(a) the purposes of a dwelling-house for the proprietor of the land or any other person lawfully in occupation thereof, or for the servants of, or any persons employed for agricultural purposes by the proprietor or any other such person:
Provided that the dwelling-house for the proprietor of the land or any other person lawfully in occupation thereof shall not occupy more than one-fifth of the whole area of the land or two hectares, whichever is the lesser;
(b) the purposes of agriculture;
© the purpose of extracting or processing raw material from any agricultural produce of such land;
(d) the purpose of preparing for distribution any such material or produce, or any honey-bees, livestock or reptiles kept or bred on such land, or the produce of such livestock or aquaculture on such land;
(e) the purposes of providing educational, medical, sanitary or other welfare facilities, including (so far as they are provided primarily for use by persons employed on the land) facilities for the purchase of goods and other commodities;
(f) any purpose which the State Authority may prescribe for the purpose of this section by rules under section 14.
(g) any purpose which the State Authority may think fit to authorise in the circumstances of any particular case;
(h) any purpose incidental to a purpose falling within any of the preceding paragraphs.

CATEGORY : BUILDING
Implied conditions affecting land subject to the category "building".
116. (1) Where any alienated land is subject by virtue of any provision of this Act to the category "building", the following implied conditions shall, subject to subsection (3), apply thereto-
(a) that, unless on the relevant date such a building already existed on the land, there shall within two years of that date be erected thereon a building suitable for use for one or more of the purposes specified or referred to in subsection (4);
(b) that no part of the land shall be used for agricultural or industrial purposes (except in so far as the erection or maintenance of any building for a purpose or purposes falling within paragraph (f) or (g) of subsection (4) may constitute such a use);
© that every building thereon (whensoever erected) shall be maintained in repair;
(d) that no such building shall be demolished, altered or extended without the prior consent in writing of the appropriate authority.
(2) In subsection (1) "relevant date" means the date on which any part of the land first became subject to the category.
(3) The conditions specified in subsection (1) shall be implied in the case of any land to the extent only that they are not inconsistent with any express conditions to which the land is for the time being subject.
(4) the purposes referred to in paragraph (a) of subsection (1) are the following-
(a) residential purposes;
(b) administrative or commercial purposes, or the purposes of passenger transport;
© the purposes of exhibiting, selling by retail, repairing or otherwise dealing in any goods or commodities, or of providing any services;
(d) the purposes of providing educational, medical, sanitary or other welfare facilities;
(e) the purposes of entertainment, refreshment or recreation;
(f) any purpose which the State Authority may prescribe for the purposes of this section by rules under section 14;
(g) any purpose which the State Authority may think fit to authorise in the circumstances of any particular case;
(h) any purpose incidental to a purpose falling within any of the preceding paragraphs.

In essence, once yr agri land is converted to building land, you cant have agri activities.
(IMHO the law is fine as it is to have BH on agri land...unconverted (see below) ...I suspect, the conversion is merely to generate additional state revenue.)
CATEGORY : AGRICULTURE
(4) The purposes referred to in paragraph (a) of subsection (1) are the following-
(h) any purpose incidental to a purpose falling within any of the preceding paragraphs.

I hope the guideline is as stated below and NOT as 'anytime'.
Just doesnt make sense to me, why there is a need to come up with new and different regulation that differ from existing ones.

General powers of State Director, etc.
15. (1) The State Director, the Registrar, and any Land Administrator, may for the purposes of this Act (and without prejudice to the exercise of any powers conferred upon him by any other written law) -
(a) at all reasonable times have free access to, and enter upon, any land in the State;

Like I have stated before, if the PBT wants this (not that I agree with it) then they have a responsibility to ensure that no residential development encroaches onto our 1.5km 'safe haven' subsequent to approval of the BH. Else thru no fault of yours , your BH is deemed to be 'out' of the guideline if the PBT approves such development.
There be a fallout from having BH in any area????? Any BH is the vicinity will automatically render any land within 1.5km unsuitable for residential development!!! Is the residential here the zoning or literal ie a residential house? If zoning then it means a housing estate, if the later it means even if a kampung house is within 1.5 km also tak boleh!!!!

I presume the 40db is still in place? or maybe the more ridiculous ultrasonic sound!!!

No amount of security will dissuade determined thieves/robbers.
IMHO security is put in place merely as a deterrence for the likely thieves/robbers who are so inclined to be so deterred.
It's those hardcore armed and determined ones that everyone fear. These are fearless and bold robbers.
It's not worthwhile to trade your life for a few kilos of EBN.
Short of hiring your own armed private army, there's only so much each of us can do.

Like some of the sifus here have stated, I will not worry abt until you start to harvest plenty.
Let the initial returns pay for the security as appropriate.
If you produce enuff to hire a armed guard, why not? Just a matter of economics.

One suggestion is to have local BHs to come together to hire armed patrols like the KL/PJ housing estates are doing.
If the guards drop in at unannounced and odd hrs and they are armed, it may prove a real deterrence.
This will be like a private police patrol.

The guidelines are a result of the biz being perceived as a public nuisance and the subsequent raids in S'wak which generated a lot of publicity.
A lot of the sifus here have also contributed to subsequent roadshows/workshops to offer feedback.
It's the outcome of all these ie the 1GP that all of us are eagerly awaiting to view.
In terms of security we still need to fallback on our PDRM, not the guidelines.
Don't dream that they will setup a special security unit to prevent theft and robberies pursuant to the 1GP.
If housing estates in KL/PJ need their own security tells you how thinly the PDRM is stretched.

In terms of the 1GP, dun expect much either. Like I have speculated in a prev post. The time will have been spent not working out a 'friendly' guidelines but at turf wars between the different ministries. I think I read on the MOA site that the Health Ministry has yet to respond to the draft.
A realistic expectation will be take all existing regulations; merge them together and the result will be a thicker guideline with more requirements....that is 1GP. Call me a cynic but I will be delighted to be proved wrong.

I dont watch TV, do you mean that there was a program on ENB biz and viewers were asked to vote? On what specifically?

Dunsun,
Try yr camera with diff settings. Sometimes you can get it almost like a scanned copy.
I am eager to view it in it's entirety & then discuss it here.
You can also try a fax machine if you hv 1.
I think we need to quickly view and discuss and quickly start any action like writing to the cabinet members etc..
Are you in Selangor today? I dont mind picking it up to be scanned somewhere. Need to be back home by 6PM today.

From my brief viewing of the para you typed out (thks bro), I am beginning to see a pattern.
I will withhold my observation till I view the entire draft.

As for the National Land Code 1965, it's not on the AG site. I pulled it out in html (page by page) from the Putrajaya net site. I dont know what this Putrajaya thingy is. PBT or what???? I can try pulling them ALL out page by page in it's entirety frm the same site later if I can't find a complete document somewhere else

Can't find a complete doc, not on the AG site, not in Parliament site, There's an amendment Bill (maybe that's why it's yanked off the AG site).
From Putrajaya.net
http://www.putrajaya.net.my/portal/page?_p...&_schema=PORTAL

This post has been edited by Cergau: Feb 20 2010, 06:10 PM

Do you have prior knowledge of the guidelines?
May I request you share with us for discussion, I do not wish to see my fellow BH owners going down w/o trying to reverse this.

Just on the distance clauses:
6.2 Jarak Bangunan
i. Mempunyai jarak 150m daripada mana-mana bangunan kediaman berdekatan
This seem in place for Agri/Kampung land, this too will bring some BH down.
ii. Hendaklah tidak kurang dari 0.5km daripada kawasan perumahan dan bangunan komersial
This seem the catch all....@shophse as well as eco parks?
Strange!!! all eco units are close to each other arent they? Notice this is Jarak Bangunan & NOT jarak tanah!!!
If all agri land for BH are now converted to bangunan then all eco units too will kena!
The converted land of ecoparks will instantly make them commercial buildings!!

I had initially thought unseen hands were at play to fix a negative perception of eco parks.
Buyers fear that a failed eco unit cant be resold for it's initial purchasing price cos' no commercial activities are allowed.
So if now converted to 'bangunan' then legally can be used for commercial purpose.

This bring up another issue of CF & building specs that Dunsun mentioned.
Most standalone are not build to pass commercial building specs as they are build for a specific purpose and does not have 'normal' load bearing capacity.
As for Dunsun's Qs on increased commercial value, it's exactly the opposite.
If ikut this guideline then no residential houses nor commercial building can be approved with 500m of a BH!!!
If I were to interpret this literally then a single hse can be built within 150m of a BH. If more than 1 hse (my interpretation) within that distance then tak boleh!

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Added on February 20, 2010, 7:28 pm6.17 is about Kuasa Pegawai;
i. 'hendaklah membenarkan pegawai daripada Majlis serta mana-mana pegawai agensi kerajaan yang berkaitan untuk memasuki mana-mana rumah burung atau premis untuk menjalankan pemeriksaan pada bila-bila masa'.
ii. PBT bersama lain-lain pihak berkuasa boleh menutup/menyita, memindah, termasuk kuasa memecah masuk premis bagi melupuskan apa-apa peralatan yang dirampas.

I do not like this 1 bit. I already can imagine it like a movie set of Genghis Khan mob sacking a city, rape & pillage, with victims crying, pleading. I do not see in my funny eye a movie set FBI/SWAT operasi with battering ram, bolt cutters and shouts of 'CLEAR'.
Also notice pihak pihak lain...wah maybe invite Hitler also-lah. RELA maybe? I think we either give out queuing nos or take our money & do the same biz in Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia with less hassle. Seriously I am abt to firm up my land purchase on Monday. Looks like I have to hold this off now. Instead of feeling all high abt it, I am feeling really down like the political situation in BolehLand. And I thought I can go hide on my land watching swiftlets and take my mind off my country going down and being bankrupted by those filthy politicians. Will end here b4 I become more descriptive with my words.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Feb 20 2010, 07:28 PM