West Wing,
My sentiments exactly, we had everything at our disposal and to our advantage, we squandered the opportunity.
Our lucky stars?? It doesn't take a lot of imagination to sense it is dimming. The previous PM came into the job & found the kitty almost empty and was told that there was plenty more in the Petronas piggy bank. Now you see the current PM raising all kinds of taxes and removing critical subsidies. What does it tell you? There seem to be alot of 'initiatives' suddenly, one must realise that some are AFTA related. Thus are really not initiatives but are to comply with the agreements. For years analyst have been telling that M'sia is surviving on overdraft. You read between the lines !!!
As to wheter any of the PMs were good in terms bringing in developments (I hesitate to call it progress)?
I have my own pet belief...see where Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos & Vietnam are heading!
Where there's cheap labour that's where labour intensive industries will go. We got those industries then & has not gotten ahead beyond that. My pet belief is we would have got to where we are now even with a blind, mute & deaf person in charge. For the record I do not see him as all bad. He has some redeeming qualities.

---

Added on January 4, 2010, 12:01 pmDunsun,
I have anticipated the objections, maybe we can leave this for now for discussion in the future.

I fear that the game will change somewhat when the guidelines are published.
This is merely my guess....please don't flame me as I merely am playing the devil's advocate here.
Let's agree that the parties to the GAHP revision will work within the existing law. (as I have not sighted any new related legislation, pray tell if any of you have).
Other than the existing local legislation the other is CITES.
Thus far I recall the CITES recommendations were
1)gather further statistics
2)DNA differentiation
Perhilitan
From previous posts here on the 'requirements' from Perhilitan for whatever licences. They were all skewed towards data gathering. Does anyone here think that they will dispense with it. Me think not. So I predict the full current requirement will be intact.
PBT
PBT requirements.. I predict full disclosure will be the name of the game. I recall some of the past bad press where 1 particular councilman wanted to charge RM1K for the biz licence. So the licencing regime will make you declare full details. (the point here being that some of your above objections will soon be requirements).
The only saving grace will be IF they will be a 1 stop centre whcih I believe was requested for in the w/shop.
All the revision effort will have been spent on territorial marking by the parties.

Again if you are in touch with the nice lady in the Vets, nicely request for a preview feedback session.
Stress that it will not be nice for everyone if a flood of objections appear in the paper post publication.
Imagine if instead of protests, appreciations appear in the papers.
Prior knowlege does not convey material commercial advantage to anyone.
As such there shdnt be any tight control over it's contents.








This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 4 2010, 12:01 PM

WW,
Hate to be the cynic again. You may get away with it on a small scale with the guano idea.
If ever you go big time, you'll be stepping on the toes of 'suppliers' who does nothing but supply fertiliser to the govt at preferential prices. Certain ministries give out free fertiliser to the smallholders every year. Who is to complain about the price when you get it free? Also quite a bit walk away in shipment too. Instead of being a hero and conferred a datukship for service to the country, your birdhouse will probably get raided for illegal manufature of fertiliser.

Like I suggested, if we make the assumption that the parties to the guidelines revision each work within current legal framework, most of the expended energy will be on how they are to work together without overstepping their precious jurisdiction. Or more importantly each other's toes. Without passing new laws or gazzetting new executive orders I forsee just putting Perhilitan staff into the PBT office if they so inclined to be nice & setup the 1 stop centres. It will just be a logistic convenience for us & maybe some cosmetic changes to the guideline per se. Simplified process.... maybe if they are colocated at the same premises, you get to fill in your name & ic nos less number of times at best.
After 10 years of each of us carrying a chip embedded IC, not a single govt dept (in personal experience anyway) bothers to get a chip reader to capture yr particulars but instead make you fill out paper forms. Maybe 1 day when we get sophisticated enuff I will sue the govt for conditioning me into a chronic cynic. Some may accuse me of just complaining & not offering up any solutions.... I am too embarrassed to do so in this particular instance & I may sound really condescending in the process.
Now that I am on the roll again at 5Am (can't sleep..having night mares that instead of many birds I get a giant one that make tyre size nest) They were like transformers, coming together & then becoming 1. I just dun know how to renovate the the birdhouse I dun own yet.
I just want to share this piece of item that I picked up in boredom on TV.
We have a Institut Perkasam located somehere in Lenggong Perak. (serious)
I am waiting for it to be upgraded to university status & so I may apply to do a MBA there.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 5 2010, 05:48 AM

Dunsun,
Ref the Star article:
If it is to be tabled by end of Jan at Cabinet level & gazetted by end March, it is obviously in circulation already in some official circles. It sounds positive in terms of speed of completion of the guidelines especially boosted by the statement in Melaka of the right of the state to refer to Unesco’s Committee on World Heritage Site. That means the guidelines as in current form does not specifically differentiate heritage & non-heritage areas. So Penang & Melaka will refer to Unesco to make the call for them. There's money involved as UNESCO fund heritage areas maintenance. By extension shophouse are OK since those heritage areas are mostly shophouse areas? (pls note that this is a question).
Before anyone go jumping with joy, again please note that these are my own reading of the statement in the paper article. (ie my guess only).

As to the money allocated in the budget for the BN industry???? I recall the overall sum were provided to 'develop' certain industries including BN. Dont know which agency was entrusted with the money, but like I have stated before, during the exclusive Paya Indah 'workshop' giving out of money was mentioned. Another sad day if the money was to be given out to build birdhouses. Develop has limited meaning in M'sia, it means, build, construct building/s for politician/s to have their pictures taken for the papers. I wish that I will be proven wrong this time, that will be the best gift to Malaysia for the new year.

Like I said, I wish to be proved wrong just for 1 instance. We do not know, to whom the money is entrusted to & how they plan to 'develop' the BN industry. Here i am wondering who the BN industry players are? Isnt the money to develop the industry for you & I? Your assessment may be correct as to the disbursement to their cronies.
This is akin to upon being given some money to develop the car industry instead of doing what's good for the industry, like funding local Us to develop new alternative propulsion or fuel, develop new market etc.. they spend the money on developing a new internal combustion engined car with god-knows-who to compete with Proton. Has anyone here been consulted as to what is required to 'develop' the industry to greater heights? I recall some figures we shared here as such that becomes the deliverable of the budget wouldn't you think so? So, who will be monitoring the implementation? Who will be accountable? Where's the KPI. Are they the expert? Can only happen in Malaysia.
Also closer to our immediate concern... where's the guideline? It's meant for us to comply with, so pls have the courtesy to at least brief us, if not out of respect for the fact that the budget money is our money. I know I have been cursing some govt depts & I know that they are not all bad. Just them bloody politicians!!! and appointees who interfere in the depts. Bear with me as I have to bear with you. Fair? It;s partly your fault if you let them ride you.

My previous suggestion to build BH for our asli bros who now harvest the BN in the wild may fit their function of safe guarding a protected specie. But to build more BH in direct competition with existing ones? I am not so gullible to think my suggestion may be the only one, but have the courtesy to tell me if otherwise.
I am new at this biz, anyone from our supporting govt agencies here in this forum that is suppose to help me? I having been paying income tax the last 28 years, road tax the last 20, I pay toll when I travel, I pay when I piss and crap. Can I have some of my money back? If you cant help me, can I have some of the budget money so I may help myself?

First They want me to scrap my old junk of a car, now they want me to pay petrol by cc? I think I will buy a motorbike take way the petrol tank & put in my car petrol tank. 100cc mah! Some more must show IC-ah? Can't they implement the IC checks at the border town stations? Do we have 100,000 petrol stations at the border towns? This govt is a serious health hazard. I dont know which will take me first. Dying from dehydration from alternately crying & laughing too much or heart attack/stroke from reading another idea that is more stupid than the last

Incidentally I visited an asli in Dengil who owns 1 1/2 BHs. 1 solely owned under construction and another already operational shared with a partner. It was a site visit arranged by the supplier to see the precast wall panels used.

PS Dunsun, I like your pirate duck.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 9 2010, 12:20 AM

Well,
Not to specifically screw them , to be fair give them credit when it's due lah. But then if it;s not make known before hand how to give them credit? I would think it's better to listen to us behind closed doors than to have folks here screwing them publicly. We are not unreasonable people here. In polite society, it's known as 'feedback'.

PLEA to DVS[U]
Please , please DVS if you are reading this to remember that it is to develop the industry, not just an amicable agreement amongst govt agencies to regulate the industry only.
Remember we are the customers. In drawing up your KPI, you will obviously have put us in as a stakeholder, No?
I wouldnt wish you having to redo this exercise repeatedly in the full glare of the public & the higher ups.
Please share the draft with us for feedback. More brains the better.
We only aim to make the guidelines better the first time and not having to redo this. Can you imagine the time lost in the bureaucracy crawl?
You may have sent the draft to the related agencies and awaiting their feedback which I am sure is still 'under consideration'. Please do not wait till the last minute ie after all agency feedback.
Please let us have a go at it too. You save time this way.
I come from 30 years in a corp world so I humbly think I know what I am talking about.
We can view it behind closed door onsite & an undertaking to not reveal until cabinet approval.
We will not take any material out. We can sign a black and white undertaking.
Please PM me if this is feasible & preferably reasons if not. Remember I am volunteering my time to help.
Come on DVS, pick up my challenge to do this right the 1st time. 1Malaysia, 1Time?
You have my commitment and I am sure all here.

As an aside, anyone know what has happened to Ben Chai? I enjoyed his writing when I was catching up from V1. Would be nice to have him drop by soon. He kinda bring in some fresh air in this serious, stuffy, often repeated subjects of complaints of which I am most chronic.

Hackwire,
Just checked TI Corruption Perception Index, Malaysia is at 56 & Iindonesia is at 111 for 2009.
Let's celebrate.

As to the PBTs going about giving everyone a tough time.. well there is 1 1/2 (one and a half) side to the coin.
1 side is as you have shared. 1 half could be that our well meaning councillors mean well and wanted to reign in some repeat offenders. And our equally well meaning enforement/licencing dept just hantam only lah. Maybe got KPI target to hit mah. After some screaming and bad press everything will go back to 1Malaysia. I one, I want, You give.
The other half-leh? That is donated to Transparency International to accumulate for 2010.

They need only to call in some reps from the particular business and inform them before hand.
Kau tim. No bad press. The players will be good boys for a while.
Enforcement can quickly turn into persecution according to their whim.

Maybe the same scenario will unfold with the BH guidelines? ...if they do not invite us for a preview?

Coolandy,
How do you propose to share the risk?
No matter what the land will always be there, as such there is no risk, there is only a lost of opportunity in rental or capital gains on a sale or lost of revenue from existing biz on the land.
The BH cant be taken away whole.
I met a land owner in Sg Ruan, Pahang where he JV with a Setiawan sifu.
The way they did it was to sum the total cost ie value of land + cost of BH.
Then they decided how much each is willing to foot.
Say land=RM100K, BH=RM300K ie RM400K
My guess they will form a company and transfer all assets to co.
Shareholding will be according to how much equity each is willing to take up.
By default the land owner will own 25% from his contribution of the land, & the sifu who built the BH wil own 75%.
But if the land owner wants more equity then he comes out with the required cash for that.
This rely on being able to transfer the land, how will you do that for Malay Reserve land.
I know there are folks who do it with a PA, which is unenforceable.

Dunsun,
WW mentioned earlier a RM300 licence fee in Kuantan? Yr BH In Pahang?
1)The fee is under PBT jurisdiction & discretion.
Negotiate if they allow or they can say it's gazetted or some other excuse.
I recall a past sharing (cant recall whom) of DL challenging the PBT either in Kedah or Perak on the high fees.
PBT have somehow equated BH to goldsmith. DL asked how much goldsmith are charged for their licence. He managed to bring it down to RM200 region. It may temporarily serve as the benchmark (ie the local goldsmith), until we can come up with something better.

2)Let me remind ALL here that we have to demand service in return for our money.
We have to start demanding that PBT with AUTHORITY they also carry the RESPONSIBILITY.
Hypothetical eg: if current guidelines state that BH to be 100M from residential houses
We now comply and are compliant. It is the PBT's RESPONSIBILITY to ENSURE they dont approve new/further residential developments within 100m of our birdhouse!!!! We have to demand this instead of complaining later of this & that.
This is real as I suppose most would have chosen spots that have utilities available & these locations are not far from developer 'serial/terrace rape'. Cos we cant take them to court for omission of action ie they act stupid and say yakah, saya tak tahu. Only they can plead ignorance of their own rules and get away with it. And with new residential developments within 100M, NOW your BH is ILLEGAL. For the rest of us, Ignorance is not a defense.

I think what you have alluded to are (just my recollection of accounting lessons in school of 35 years ago)
1)Goodwill - that is the value ascribed to the name/brand of a running business. Yes there is a way of arriving at a value (but not important for the discussion).
2)Potential ? Well I do not think one can put a number on this as there are so many ifs on this.
There must be a reason there is no accounting term for this.
The closest I can think of is 'Potential Loss' ie what you will be losing if you give up the land for something else.
Say you are now renting to a farmer eg. you loss will be the rental.
But if you are now running a petrol station on it, then I agree to most that you mentioned in a normal case of a running business. ie the asset (whcih include the land in Qs), liabilities, goodwill, loss of potential earnings (for this you must show a records of earnings and come to a mutually agreed nos.). But realistically, would buy a petrol station (or any real running biz for that matter) to put up a BH?

Let's strip away the ifs and say you sell the land as is (kosong for simplicity). How much can you sell it for, you will bring in a professional valuer. They provide the value of the land based on some potentials if any; like you have mentioned, a housing development. Say you sell to a developer direct, do you ask for his future profit to be factored in? If you find an agreeable developer, you are most likely not to get your money cos' he's obviously going to go bankrupt. I think the operative word is NOW, how much can you sell it for NOW. Sure if you keep it for another 50 years the price will increase.

In short it's not equitable to factor in an imaginary future loss, more so in the BH biz.

As to the sifu/partner, developer inflating the cost, you can address that by asking a few developers including your partners quotation. I think the BH in SG Ruan's method is simple & neat.
Would like to hear other comments pls. cos I have always wondered abt how they do the JV for BH.

Just my 2bit, maybe a real accountant can shed more light.

I think we are in agreement in principle now. I think you are talking about market demand ie once a general area produces good results, neighboring land owners and brokers will definitely want to jack the price up for a fatter commission. I think that's what West Wing was lamenting in an earlier post. Valuers / Real estate agents will work on a last done deal valuation. So it's all demand and supply. This still works on the principle of how much NOW, not 5 or 10 years in the future. As such the valuation already has already factored in the 'potential value' (to use yr term) of the land. Agreed?
BUT not on a basis of future concentration of EBN, that's arbitrary.

It's far too complex for me to unravel. But my impression it's not equitable.

Let's look at it from a cash-cash JV.
1)you sell the land for cash
2)partner comes up with cash for BH
With the combined cash both of you buy a piece of land to build BH (and live happily ever after )
Your equity will be your contribution of the cash? Ditto for partner. Agreed?

Since it is yr land that's the viable site for BH.
1)You sell yr land to the JV co. that both of you own. (that means already transferred to JV co).
2)Partner gives his cash to the JV co & build a BH.
Equity in the JV co in the ratio of the cash equivalent contribution.

For both scenarios, all txns to be banked & a/c operated by jt a/c requiring both signatures.
Income is split according to ratio of equity.
This way risk is shared according to yr equity & no one has additional benefit over the other.
Yr exposure is also limited to yr equity.

If you need to split, then sell off the JV co that now owns the land & BH.
You may also buy back the land with the proceeds of the sale.
Except there's a catch, you will need to buy both the land & BH.

Coolandy,
Please note that I am here to learn from sifu here too and each sharing has to be evaluated for your own decision.
For the record I do not own a BH yet. Am just adopting sifu WW spirit of sharing whatever we know or think we know Notice the tone around here, it's more discussion then arguments?

(Dunsun thks), yes you need to provide more specific scenario for more specific suggestions.
However I will try.

I will state my own assumptions if applicable
1)Assumption - you own the BH (& land if applicable) wholly.
Why do you have to give a share of the BH to the guy running it?.
Pay him a salary or share of of EBN sale in lieu of the salary if you do not wanna come out with cash.
Another way is no salary until harvest (but you have to sweeten the deal somewhat).
Both ways you have to work out what the salary shd be.
Let's start from the lowest option I can think of, an indonesian laborer - how much? RM700-RM1000? I dun know as I havent hired 1 before.
These are only approaches , how much depends on your valuation of his contribution to your BH.
My gut feel is the nos I stated is fair. If live-in (ie at the BH), you get a ready guard, though you cant make him work for u 24 hrs a day. The last word will still be....to be negotiated between you two.

2)Assumption - the guy 'running BH is a partner and you have a JV co setup.
Approach for (1) above applies too.
Any incidental expenses can be charged to the JV co as expenses.
When you become a millionaire on the 3rd year:
your Hummer petrol, services, electricty, water for swimming pool, massage for the swiftlets to ensure big nests, wine & beer to clean the BH can all be less off from your sale so you dun pay unnecessary tax. (as legitimate business expenses
Also dun forget to invite us when you throw your weekly parties.

These are just normal business principles and I'm not a businessman.
You get better advice from your neighborhood grocery store owner
Just my 2bit. any comments welcome cos' I bantai only.
(notice I cant even give my 2sen?, cos I have not earned even that from the biz yet)

This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 18 2010, 07:19 PM

Coolandy,
cool brudder

I too have pondered this

Prevention
as I am assuming folks get the fungus from having to mantain the 85% humidity continuosly.
(there are of course folks who try using humidty to control temperature which require even further experince to the threshold when humidity actually starts to contribute to higher temperature - this is a diff topic for another time)
I as someone who hangs on to every word that the sifus here write has come to this conclusion..ie
Nests need the humidity to mantain their shapes & prevent cracking off the NP.
My conclusion is the high humidity is primarily for the nests NOT the swiftlets.
My believes can only be confirmed by any BH Sherlock Holmes here who has actually gone through a situation of low humidity and gone on to high hunidity and has observed a sudden increase in swiftlet counts and other environmental conditions being constant.
Coming to my point or rather Qs ----
Does one need to have the humidity at 85% ALL the time?
1)If the nests are heavily hydrated already (my assumption they do get hydrated after a certain nos of hrs each day), one should be able to shorten the running hrs for the mister? No?
That ought to help in preventing the NP from being wet all the time? and thus the fungal growth?
I am great believer in prevention instead of cure if a way can be found.
(We have progressed far from the days of old when folks use air-cond for temp control.)
My observations can all go out the window if any sifu can drop in a pearl of wisdom that
85% = more birds + good nest OR 85% = good nest only
2)I have read abt aluminium corner boards being used. What abt aluminium NP? or any other material for that matter.
They need to cling..how do they cling. Do they actually make microsopic dents with their claws on the NP where they cling? If not other material shd do, No?
Someone ought to test out this theory with just 1 plank.
I have never read anyone making the observation that there are a lot of tiny little holes from their claws on the NP!
Also caves do not have Meranti planks in them have they

Just some crazy ideas,
you know how those chip wafer plants regulate their air? How to implement for BH? That will ensure no spores get into the BH. ANd those that get in with the birds are vacuumed.

What abt a welcome mat at the LMB with a request in swiftlet lnaguage - dust yr feather & claws!
maybe an air-curtain at the LMB! special fungicide with the blown air to clean incoming birds.
that what they do in airplanes too dont they?
What abt those broken hospitals operating theatre in the news, also fungal growth problem? What went wrong? Common factor? Water. No water, no fungus. BUt how?
Treat like hospital OT, boots inside and always inside, shoes to be left outside.
WHat abt hospital gowns for working in the BH..really ah, I wanna hire female workers only.
OK I digress.

Treatment
These are the kind of stuff the govt fund from the last budget ought to go into.
Fund the Uni chaps to go do some real science to help us.
Ascertain the specie of fungus, treatment, prevention etc..
Study the birds if they are spore carriers

If I recall my bio classes correctly, fungus propagate by spores.
You mentioned a vacuum cleaner. Good idea,
Attach a stiff brush or something to the vacumm hose for 1 man job or someone scrub & the 2nd hold the vacuum
I really am lost with this fungus thing...complicated with aroma & stuff like that cos' I can only imagine how I would deal with it if I had this problem in my own home....call the carpenter

Sorry lah. Got more Qs than answer.
Hope this will generate more discussion and some ideas.

PS thinking abt the hospital problem...can those of you who has fungus problem on the NP alos have the same with the walls? I am thinking that the spore may have already be on the NP even before installation. Can be ah?

This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 18 2010, 11:32 PM

Dear aeiou228,
Pls share-lah, why difficult to apply? Timer problem? Need 85% ALL the time?

If it is to be limited to current practice for discussion, can't contribute -lah, got no BH experience.
Maybe there is an element of prevention here as after you've found a 'safe' (from health perspective) way to clean it, you still have to prevent recurrence? No?

My apologies I may have gone off tangent. Out of habit-lah, when brainstorming & thru practice, I do not make a conscious decision of what can or cannot. I just say what comes to mind, the more outlandish the better. List them all down and each of us look at the pts no matter how silly at 1st impression, we assume each pt works and discuss the implementation. The idea is to make a silly suggestion work. Sometimes it's known as a guided way to thinking out of the box. Works better with people unrelated to the subject matter.
If that is not what you meant, I misunderstood.

I'll jump in if no BH specific knowlege applies.

For my benefit, do yr walls near the NP with fungi have the fungi?

WW, thks.

aeiou228,
Fire
I figured fire which you have tried turns it a diff colour, I will presume already toasted?
But it doesnt come off easily without hard scrubbing? As WW mentioned, can it be left alone w/o disturbing the birds?
Instead of a lighter , can you try a bigger fire power like as in picture here?
I think, if flame is applied evenly throughout the all plank and not just the fungal parts, you may have a chance to toast even the spore that are about to germinate. Also the heat will 'treat' & dry the NP somewhat? But I think it will leave some residual smell with unknown effect on the birds?

(how do I put a inline pic here, cant find the appr help)
In case, my pic doesnt come out here. It's a burner that uses the canned butane gas. It's used by butchers to singed off animal hair? I use it to light BBQ fire, saves a lot of time.

Chemical
There are plenty of leads , just google 'Tropical Fungal Treatment'
1 which I scanned thru is following
http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/3000/3300.html
There is a mention of sodium borate , whcih I think (may be mistaken) the common name is meat tenderiser. Ask yr wife or mum, they will tell you where these are available. It's a form of crystal, water soluble, I have used it once for 'green' method of termite eradication.

Heat/Wave/IR
Anybody wanna try DIY a microwave appliance, I can contribute a working microwave oven complete with thermal heater. Only the control panel is kaput. I am hopeless with electronics.

Ozone?
I believe there there are used in the fuit export biz. There are portable units I last checked for another purpose.

Oh 1 more important thing, I bumped into something scary 'invasive fungal' ... something. The shor test something abt organ transplant.

There must be a simple & elegant way of getting rid of fungus, how else fruit can exported easily all over the world with strict disease control?

I am in a bit of rush now, I may come back in abit with some more reading. Myabe someone can do that & share?


Attached thumbnail(s)

OK Am back momentarily waiting for a return call to se of I need to rush off.
Without going hi-tech I think Boric acid is a promising.
Dissolve in water and apply, if used properly it's not toxic.
I have used it once fort termites & I am still alive today. I think there are small concentrations of em in commercial food stuff too. I never got to see the effectivesness though, it was supposed to work very slowly on termites.
They are articles on the net where folks use for skin, toes fungal treatment w/o getting dissolved nor growing extra digits!
An extract
Those in the fungicide and wood preservative manufacturing industries discovered that boric acid and/or borates are effective and reliable long term fungicides and preservatives. When wood was treated with boric acid and/or borates and then placed in a damp and warm area, the ideal environment for fungus growth you would have no fungus growth. These chemicals also work as a termiticide (prevents and/or kills termites and other wood destroying insects) -- unlike other fungicides and preservatives, which would also break down. Boric acid and/or borates are derived from natural elements, therefore they do not break down readily. When boric acid and/or borates are used as fungicides and preservatives, they serve as a growth regulator rather than a desiccant.

Fungi are plants that contain no chlorophyll. Therefore, they cannot make their own food and so they must have an outside source of food, in this case wood. There are four requirements for fungus growth; first is food, such as cellulose and lignin which is contained in all wood; second is air; third is warmth; and, fourth is moisture.
end extract
Read more here
http://devinefarm.net/rp/rpboric.htm

---

Added on January 19, 2010, 3:44 pmBoric acid
Ah , powdered form available too.
http://hubpages.com/hub/How-to-Cure-Fungi-based-Infections
Not only kills the fungus, but prevent spore germination too
http://www.springerlink.com/content/n07m203758474526/

---

Added on January 19, 2010, 3:51 pmBN suppliers also have possibly other substance to do the same
see the RM43.00 item (semua boleh 3 in 1)
http://shop.birdnestcenter.com/vmchk/attracting-swiftlet.php

This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 19 2010, 03:51 PM

chiongguo, dropped u a PM

---

Added on January 19, 2010, 4:54 pmWhile waiting for nest, can start clinic for transgender for pendapatan sampingan,
Clinic Pakar Buang Telur


This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 19 2010, 04:54 PM

Hi Ben,
Good to have you back and in a fighting mood too.
I was a reader/learner on the sideline back when you were active here.
Glad to hear that you are well and thanks for again volunteering if recalled into active service.

As for your sense of an impending storm;
If they are now licensing BHs and with the Federal guidelines in the works and folks comply, we will have reduced room for abuse. Not that I doubt their ingenuity to create some more.
But let's not play their game, let's demand accountability.
Any infringement should be dealt with within existing legislation & not treat it as an industry wide problem.
The frequent complaints here points to noise level.
Let these offenders be pulled up by the authorities.
They break the law they pay.
They are always the minority, but if everyone here and BH owners not active here so decides that level of noise is necessary for the industry, we will be legislated further and further away from human contact.
Then we become the target of the greenies, moving into wildlife habitat.
I am not being frivolous here, I have read of reports of negative impact of noise level on all sort of wild things.
We open another avenue for abuse.

BTW, I want to share something that is beyond everything else ever being discussed on this forum.
Humankind have about 10 years to do something to arrest or reverse the climatic change.
A free movie released but very little Malaysian publicity costing millions to make & thousands of volunteers.
it's called HOME, you google 'HOME ppr', it's available on YouTube.
Even if you don't buy this scientific projection, watch the breath-taking sceneries from all over.
I have made it a must watch for everyone in my family especially, most of us would have passed the tourch when the worst hits us though no one knows what exactly but everyone agrees it will be bad. Each new negative finding compounds the the problem and the deadline seem to be getting shorter and shorter just like the movie 2012. Sad to say it;s real & not a movie.
It's merely a documentary with no attempts to 'sell' any doomsday agenda.
I wish some Malaysian with a good command of BM contact them to have a BM version for local distribution.
After all major language vers are available for download. It's 1.5 hrs, depending on fomat selected ranges from 400MB to 700MB.
I watched it on my desktop last night.
What troubled me was before I finished downloading to watch & was reading the papers, there were reports of people dying from floods in the desert region of the Middle East. Go figure.
Oceanic currents are slowing being disrupted and Jetstreams in the atmosphere are changing.
Do we wonder why the climate is changing. This is just the start. Even today's paper has the word catastrophic in the report on world average temperature rise for the decade. Once they factor this in, the projection will be worst.
I doubt one can remain a cynic much longer.

Dunsun,
The last I heard, the Taman Negara in Pahang has merely established a Kelah sanctuary, conditioning them to take fish pellets and also catch and release angling. I hv not heard of any real research conducted beyond that. I also know of another in the Nenggiri river in Kelantan which I doubt still exist.
Ben,
Was it successfully bred outside it's natural environment for you to get yr hands on 1000 fries? For years there were unconfirmed stories that either in Sabah or S'wak that an Australian researcher managed to breed it. But it was also whispered that the female was already pregnant when captured from the wild.
If someone has successfully bred them in captivity it's wonderful news. In the long run, it will reduce pressure on the wild stock. Malaysian anglers consider landing a wild Kelah on rod and line the holy grail of fresh water bottom fishing.

As for your gaharu trees, are you considering doing the innoculation yrself or leaving them uninnoculated for oil extraction?
I was with a farmer today in Bidor, Perak , every major fruit cash crop over in Peninsular seem to be falling victim to some kind of viral/bacterial/insect attack papaya, mangoes, jagung, dragon fruit and banana. Even oil palm is experiencing some and spreading fast. Natures's balance seem to be out with the years of intensive farming with lots of synthetic fertilisers, chemicals for pest & weed control. I have read abt these happening in Africa and India but now I am hearing it happening in Malaysia. The Green Revolution has run it's course. I am glad Uncle Ben is on the right track going about it in a more sustainable way.

Like all 'exotic' things, when they are hard to come by, it fetches top prices.
It becomes commodity once everyone Tom, d*** & Harry is producing it.
Siapa cepat dia dapat-lah.

He He, you will need to get the beach buggy model cos' you'll be running over hills of bird shit.
Arent you planning to monitor the BH when yoiu are off site?

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Added on January 31, 2010, 5:03 pmaeiou228,
I recall someone mentioned that the eggs may be 'stillborn/dead' so the birds reject them.
Also someone suggested bouncing them, it ought to bounce like ping-pong ball.
Just my recollection, not experience.

This post has been edited by Cergau: Jan 31 2010, 05:03 PM