oh god, dont... i am freaking out here... and i have a medical interview tmr.. not looking forward to tmr oh well.. arshavin deal would be good right now.

I hope kaka and robinho can join Arsenal....

It's impossible to happen

me too... esp kaka.. but he wont go to citeh for 107 million pounds. wenger can afford..um.. 10 pounds? u willing to donate?

What an analogy.... lol !!

I don't think we would... in fact we're like complaining that players like diaby, song,denilson gets into the team TOO EASILY .. we're a football team not a football academy. We give young players chances (that deserved it mind it) We do not owe youngsters a responsibility to put them on the pitch esp when they play like how diaby/song etc has been playing. Denilson will be a great player but shouldnt be expected to play week in and out. Only cesc was a special case and even then that has caused us many pts in the early days remember? It's good that there's healthy competition and squad in depth... isn't that what we were crying out for ? now when we're going to sign someone we're now worried that we'll limit some players? So we shouldn't sign then ? I say good job if signings come in and i think players like diaby, song need a good kick up their arse to start playing properly again. If they can't handle the competition or cant break in and feel frustrated.. then im sorry you're not good enough for Arsenal then simple as and you're not willing to fight for it. (unless he has tried so hard and clearly shown he's better yet AW sticks with another player)

we shouldn't have to see eboue on RM, diaby on left like last time, denilson on the RM sometimes .. that goes to show how much we're lacking in depth to have to play players with potential but not ready for everyweek games and out of position as well. I reckon put the establish signings in 1st team if ready, keep diaby, song, denilson on rotation basis to fill that spot/spots available with denilson getting preference 1st as he's better than the other 2 now. And put them in when 1st team players need some rest etc.. but i think it'll be for the better anyways

If we sign arshavin great! , if we add a another on top of that.. even better! i forsee some players heading off in summer so we'll have to address that again in summer when its cheaper or if there is opportunity, get the players now to bed them in for the new season!

yet another great post from chronic !

Amazing! simply amazing how you're able to put a different view towards the issue we never tought of.

And yea , i do agree with you.. putting youngsters out there playing for a club who wants to stay on top and qualify for the champions league every season. Yes it's important to ensure that the lads are ready to play week in week out with consistent performance or an even better one.

It can cost or it might benefit you... Both ways, at least he's been given the chance to prove himself at the top level and nothing to be ashamed of...

And yes, not ANYBODY gets to taste the first team experience easily in a club stature alike Arsenal. I believe they earn their spot in the first team and there must be a reason why wenger still field those 3 you mentioned there chronic. It is the undying faith wenger have in our young lads , and thanks to wenger for that support as we all know young lads need support and showing faith in them hoping they they will return it to wenger in a different form which i prefer are trophies =D

hope its not a repost.

the beast doing his bicycle kick which won roma the game at the dying minutes.



too bad we couldnt see him do anything like that with us.

awh85..the commentator in that youtube clip is so

If I'm not mistaken,he also scored from a bicycle kick for us when he had a loan spell with us few seasons back.Not so sure though.

yep.. he did score that thundering goal in the carling cup. too bad he didn't show up for EPL.

Please back them up with reasons, eg how the partner would complement Fabs. Otherwise it'll just be a list-feast without any substance for further discussions.

My choice, without considering Option 6 would be 1. Fabs + Denilson.

There has been talks about Denilson being too similar to Fabs, hence the issue about the Brazillian being more suitable as Fabs' understudy than our capi's partner. While I agree that Denilson has certain similarities to Fabs, I see something that might just make this combination work.

Denilson seems to be growing into a player who operates deep in the middle, and by that I don't mean a pure defensive-minded central midfielder. He doesn't have blistering pace nor does he pose a constant, direct threat to the opponent's goal; but his qualities are his accurate short passing. This could be a vital link between the defence and the attacking players, be it strikers, wingers, or AM.

Some may argue that the combination of Fabs + Denilson didn't exactly work out well during our early season performances as none of them seem to be disciplined enough to stay deep and protect the defence. I agree to an extent, but I feel that it could be due to the inexperience of Denilson, coupled together with Fabs' lack of form (fatigue due to Euro perhaps?) plus the rawness of the partnership. Since then, Denilson has matured as one of our more consistent players with a high work rate and completed passes so I don't think it's fair to consider him as the same young player anymore. If he keeps on improving his positioning, his physique, and work on his long upfield punts, we could very well have ourselves a playmaking-Gilberto.

For this combination to work, we have to have runners as well, especially midfield runners. With awkward wingers such as Eboue and Diaby (out of position) plus the absence of Tommy the engine, the midfield appears to lack urgency and pace. With runners, say Nasri/Theo/Arshavin (if he comes) we'll have wingers covering the flanks or cutting into the middle and attack as Fabs + Denilson spray passes from deep within. In addition, whenever one player moves forward to support the attack, the partner must be disciplined to sit back instead of impeding. Similarly, whenever we lose the ball, the more advanced player should track back and support the defensive partner. I don't think it's a good idea to restrict whoever to do what role, eg Fabs focusing on attack while Denilson sits back or vice versa - It'll only limit their abilities. Let both of them roam freely, and be smart enough to complement each other in their respective tasks.

If all works well, we could have a front formation like this:

Note that I put our two CMs in a deeper position to support our defence plus spray long passes, while allowing our wingers more freedom upfront to cut inside / drift to the flanks.

My other preferred option would be Arsene's original idea of letting Diaby partner Fabs before Matty stamped his authority. But we'll need to see more Paddyesque qualities from Diaby first if this combination is to effective, plus Diaby has sometimes reminded us of Dr Jekyll and My Hyde. He can be brilliant at times, eg vs MU and Fenerbache; but he has too been hair-pulling ineffective and anonymous more often than we would like. Again, if Diaby can recapture his pre-fracture form and enthusiasm then I'd choose Option 2 instead, and let Denilson mature into a Fabs-like playmaker.

Fabs+Song seems similar to Fabs+Matty as Song's a naturally more defensive player than any other players listed, but for me Song's speed is too slow nor is his passing as tidy as Denilson's. Fabs + Tommy might be an interesting one as Tommy functions as a deep operating CM in the Czech NT, but until Tommy appears fit and ready on the pitch I'm apprehensive about this combination.

Of course, all of the above are just paper talks from a football fan; armchair hypotheses may not necessarily function well in practical reality.
And I decided not to choose Option 6 because we'll never know who Arsene is going to buy, and I'm more familiar with our own players.

Here's the list again to keep it going... I reckon a lot of people didn't see it in page 49. I'll add in an option 7 as well to make things more interesting.


This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Jan 21 2009, 01:21 AM

Anyway have u guys seen the match where WBA thrash middlesborough?

If u guys see how Simpson play,u would want him back to replace adebayor even if he leaves of never.

He played so cool and before he was sub off he gets a loud cheer from the crowd although he did not score a goal.

Hope he can play for arsenal really well too 1 day.

Its possible if arsenal are owned by Saudi Arabian.

cheers bro , i malu ady =P no la.. talk about something im really passionate about obviously i'll get long winded la =D because of that i visit alot of forums as well like arsenal-land.co.uk where i get to see opinions of the posters there, some of em real quality posts.. some of them are experiences from a fan who's been there since dawn of ages lol.. so i see their perspective and learn, in fact you did see me post some of their stuff here.. thought provoking. as for blogs i only read arseblog as he's the most amusing =) , the rest perhaps during transfers or when i run out of arsenal stuff to surf (when i should be sleeping- now almost 3am here lol, or doing my work) Just takes a little time to read what others think, im still trying to take a look at the "End of Defensive Midfield position at Arsenal discussion" quite interesting.. AW may be wanting to build a team with more complete players, playing players out of position, most players can play 2 or more positions now mayb he wants everyone to attack and defend.. (think like futsal on a bigger scale) everyone has a specialist trait to the position then a backup trait that he moulds by playing them at another position like vela and walcott on the flanks, nasri left and centre, song midfield and CB, eboue RB and RM and even CM(although RM failure and CM perhaps more of emergency =P ) Diaby left and middle and in the hole behind the striker.. RvP has been played "left , right centre literally lol" though his best position we can all see... he plays right for holland.. only ade as i can see hasn't been moved, almunia, the back 4 .. im trying to figure out the rationale behind this.. mayb for AW , DM out and out.. just tackling and keep passes simple is "soo last year" and is attempting to revolutionize the sport in a new way, like how he did when he 1st came in many ways..


Good analysis StarGhazzer, i personally prefer fabs+flamini(type) who hassles up front and gives sense of urgency but this can't be anymore so moving on... in the "End of DM's at Arsenal" discussion on arsenal-land.. someone mentioned that now we seen denilson has improved.. AW perhaps long term wants to see 2 central midfielders who can tackle and can attack.. cesc is improving his defensive game now as a result and once denilson steps up perhaps we'll see like 2 CM's taking turns defending and attacking or both attacking the same time linking together etc.. both may be small in size but both are learning to get stuck in... an interesting look at it really... im still gathering my thoughts on this on whether if this could work.. it depends on the developement of denilson and cesc's form as well... i guess we would have been able to see it if alonso came... imagine... alonso prefers to sit deep so perhaps he stays behind cesc but he can pick a pass as well.. (albeit more of the long ball type passes, and cesc focusing on through passes slight up front, both will get stuck in.. imagine our creative outlet.. ) cesc's throughballs to send the ball to the feet of RvP or flanks.. alonso to ping the ball upfront to Ade or to spaces in flanks as well for fullbacks or the wingers like now we can see the likes of walcott and vela with pace.. imagine the possibilties.. mayb this is what AW wanted but couldn't achieve.. we can only speculate now.. i feel a little uneasy without the proctection of the out and out DM but if the whole team is tough who needs a dedicated one.. also if we get alot of possesion then an out and out ball winner is pretty redundant.. we are a team with lots of possesion.. although some do argue that an out and out is needed for us to earn the right to play against the tough teams but if the whole team can stand up together.. shouldnt be too much.. im starting to grasp this idea of "the end of an out and out ballwinner at arsenal" AW perhaps is looking for a slightly defensive minded CM who can play football ... not a ball winner monster who can win balls but can only play simple passes. We won't know until he speaks.. hehe interesting for thought tho...

I wholeheartedly agree with the below par players getting their chances too easily. Thats what i've been saying all along. Wenger seems too soft and too caring for these players who cant perform. We dont have a responsibility for
them. If you're not good enough then sorry but ur gonna have to make do with playing for a 'smaller' club. But i still love
you Wenger.

This post has been edited by Goonerforever: Jan 21 2009, 11:13 AM

i think the reason why there has been so much debate about the kind of midfield player that the fans would want to see in the starting 11 is simply because the perspectives on tactics are all different.

those who favour a more balanced approach would favour a DM to allow fabregas the freedom of playing to his strengths (creativity) while the DM would be able to mop up behind him. those who think that attack is the best form of defense would on the other hand prefer two CMs who also share the defensive load.

while arsenal have been winning of late and seem to be much better than the slump we found ourselves in this season, i still find that arsenal still struggle to break down physical sides and teams that are very defensive. this would seem to suggest that we need more creativity and probably for our attack to be more potent (more goals to possession percentage ratio). but on the other hand, we seem to be pretty lightweight in the middle of the park because our midfield personnel simply do not have the build or enough experience... so the defensive duties of our back 4 are increased. couple that with the fact that the back 4 (probably except for sagna) and goalie don't seem to be too confident right now, we would seem to have a defensive frailty that is dangerous as well. so while we need attacking reinforcements, we also need defensive input.

and i think that's where all the debate begins because some people want to tackle the need to put away the chances we get and also get better end product from our possession, i.e. better penetrating passes instead of lateral passes and etc. others on the other hand cannot believe how much goals we've let in this season and the meagre sum of clean sheets that we've kept this season in all competitions. and to be honest, i don't think we'll ever be able to solve both problems in the january transfer window...

so i think that wenger has gone in to tackle the problem which he is best well versed with.. the attacking and creative part of our play. so that's probably why he went in for arshavin and why despite the fact that our defense has been less than satisfactory that he is still keeping faith with not just the defenders, but not going after a DM. perhaps by resolving our lack of creativity and low (by arsenal's standards) goal return issue, teams won't have enough time to worry about playing defensive or having more time to attack our defense.

but then again, the transfer window has still 10 days to run and wenger has been known to pull the rabbit out of the hat before, so i won't be surprised if he suddenly gets a DM or something and totally blasts my theory to smithereens... but oh well, this is just my own personal opinion...

This post has been edited by lostasylum: Jan 21 2009, 11:26 AM

This discussion was inspired by the same discussion on arsenal land that you mentioned

We are still lacking someone of the stature of Paddy, not even Fabs is able to offer the dynamism and engine that our previous midfield general does so easily. Like mentioned before, if Diaby is able to recapture his form and grow into a Paddy-like player, I'd put him ahead of Denilson. But right now Denilson deserves his place.

I'll leave out Alonso since he's not our player, but Fabs + Alonso would be my first choice should we ever reignite the bid for him in summer and actually manage to get the lad.

I believe a partnership where our two CMs are able to attack and defend simultaneously would work better than letting Fabs focus only on the attack while the DM sits back ala sweeper style.

Fabs + Gilberto didn't work as well as Paddy + Gilberto. Paddy and Gilberto worked well because Paddy started our moves from the back and carried the ball (and the team) forward while Gilberto used his positioning to block passing channels. Gilberto was never the fiercest tackles anyway (not even close to Paddy's prowess), but of course he never shied away from any physical challenges. Fabs, as brilliant as his vision is, doesn't appear to me as a full fledged AM ala Kaka or even Rivaldo if anyone remembers him. Having him operate deeper with runners latching onto his passes would be a better option.

The combination of Fabs + Matty worked well last season not because Matty is a pure defensive midfielder, in fact if anyone watched him closely Matty actually joined the attack on a regular basis. What he lacks in physique he makes it up with energy and hustle-bustle, and he manages to bring the ball from our defence to our playmaker (Fabs) quickly. A pseudo box to box midfielder, if you like; but definitely not a Makelele/Toulalan sweeper.

Finally about our difficulties in breaking down anti-football teams - We're not the only one. MU had trouble with Bolton and only managed to scrap a last minute victory too. Yet I'd like to see us being more nasty in tackles, I actually miss the days where everyone is complaining about us being the number 1 red-carded team in the league. Denilson, Song, and even Fabs are all guilty of losing tussles and tackles this season, Diaby offers us more physical brute but his ball distribution is appalling.

This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Jan 21 2009, 01:50 PM

You should read the soccernet forum. It is really analytical.

I think that the argument for a defensive midfield is this. To relieve the pressure of the attack we need to have a solid base so that the attackers can concentrate on attacking without having to worry about the defence. I believe that if everyone attacks and we concede a goal, we get worried and the attacking players will have a stigma on going all out attack. Of coz all out attack is nice to see but when the attackers are confused on whether they should go all out attack or stay back a little. I think the solution would be to go all out attacks with a strong defence to repel attack by the opposition team.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jan 21 2009, 02:07 PM

I'm sorry guys, but I don't quite see Denilson developing into anything better than a good squad player. For me, he's a decent player who does everything at a level that is above average.

But that's just it!

I feel he's lacking one quality that makes him an outstanding player. For example, Cesc has vision, Ade has power, Van Persie has technique and Clichy has pace. From other clubs, you have Gerrard and his semangat, Rooney and his aggresion, Ronaldo's dribbling and Terry's leadership. These players did not train hard and work at to attain these qualities during the course of their professional career, but these qualities were already apparent when they were youngsters and were polished further as they matured. Right now, I just don't see any aspect of Denilson's game that has the potential to be world-class. (Add on here coz I didnt read Star_Ghazzer's post in full. Bad habit I know) --> With all due respect to Star_Ghazzer, I believe that short passing is a basic skill that all footballers should have, moreso for a midfielder... Unless of course you're Alex Song, this skill is optional

I don't deny the lad is playing well at the moment, and yes he is still young... But I just don't think he has the quality to sustain this form in the long term.

I agree with Chronic that the Flamini-type player is the best solution for our midfield, but at the moment there are no prominent players in world football right now that fits the bill. And unfortunately, Denilson is not the type of player we desperately need in our midfield right now.

... I hope I'm wrong though...

This post has been edited by Zan81: Jan 21 2009, 02:23 PM

wah haha...the commentator yelled like my friend!...