Im working on an idea that has been on my mind for ages.

Have you heard of the Davis Cup? A tennis competition comprising of multiple events, where each win from events will add to the total score of a team. Something CGS took into their system.

But i want to do it a little lighter because it is hard to find 12 people to play under the same flag in 6 different games.

That is why my idea will be a Cybercafe based cup, where 8 chosen cybercafes will compete in 6 different events, across 3 platforms, 1 FPS, 1 RTS, 1 Sport.

Why 8?
Firstly, i want to have cybercafes have at least a leveled head when dealing with their competitors. 8 would seem fair so long as the cybercafes are willing to contribute equally to the prize money, venue and purpose of the event. All 8 cybercafes will act as "stadiums" where teams face off their opponents, Home and Away style.

This system will be very long, having need 7 weeks to complete 1 meet (all 8 teams are in 1 group, similar to a football league). This league will have teams representing each type of game in 6 events, with their standard events counted as 1. (e.g COD4 5v5 is considered 1 event, RA3 1v1 is considered 1 event and FIFA2009 1v1 is considered 1 event.) 3 other events may include RA3 2v2, FIFA09 2vs2 or side events for COD4, such as sniper events etc etc.

When the league ends, the winning team will then carry home a cup, to be placed in their "home" with their team name/players etched on the plaque with the year of their win.

What will you make of this? hmm?

Benefits to the industry :
i) Promoting games is always good for the community, industry and individuals that are involved.
ii) Promoting different genre's at the same time could boost a Cybercafe's revenue, by promoting their locations, services and games.
iii) Since all participating cafes require to have the same software (the games at least), this would be beneficial to gamers out there that may not be able to find a game in their area. A cybercafe that participates from that area may benefit from newer prospects/customers.
iv) Legitamacy of software is an issue, but since the number of games in this cup is limited, it may in fact help those companies by setting a requirement of having legit licenses in order to join this cup.
v) Promoting multiple genres in a team may in fact bring gamers closer together, adding new players to their rosters and eventually venturing into newer games. This will hopefully create a higher quality competitive squad of players which are supportive of each other beyond their own game. uniting the local gaming industry may in fact be beneficial to cybercafes, gaming companies and equipment distributors as they now have a larger and more visible target market.

Just to name a few.

This post has been edited by crashtec: Dec 9 2008, 08:31 AM

Good idea. Hope to hear more from the public
But its my SPM year. That suks!
Its a big event for 2009

Since the fall of cgs it really hurt most of us who are from counter strike source well that is why are shifting from cs source to cod4 .......... so the winner only takes the cup home and no prizes o.o ?

haha, ofcoz got la, remember that all participating CC's generally need to "sponsor" something lar.

This post has been edited by crashtec: Dec 1 2008, 03:08 PM

thats the hard part?
economic crisis goin on O___o

That awesome!
Death? Shouldnt we be using international rule sets for CoD4 in order to "tarik" the sponsors?
I'm talking about bigger companies like the DotA tournaments get?
Talking about possibilities!

Actually, the biggest reason why you don't seem to get much prizes or many competitions is because the Malaysian government does not support gaming per say. The Cyber athlete is NOT recognized in Malaysia as a sportsman.

There are no such things as standard rule sets. The rest of the world is divided over a common rule set, so technically unless there is a standard ISO 9000 standard like CS:Source or such, i guess there is not such thing.

yea... that too! =)
but still it would make a difference rite?
but still like DotA competitions are getting more publicity!
It came out in STAR newspaper and so on...


This post has been edited by FFF.10: Dec 2 2008, 08:57 AM

DotA has a lot of prizes of money simply because it's sponsored by SMM. SMM is a Malaysian company that supply Blizzard games in Malaysia and have affiliated with Blizzard, so they don't sponsored other game that developed and published by Blizzard. With that affiliation, of course they have a lot of money from themselves and additional money form Blizzard to support any tournament that only has Blizzard name behind the game. It is simply because of that.

DotA more popularity because more people playing it, and to remind, it is quite an old game. COD4 not even 1 year age in Malaysia, now the population of COD4 is increasing. If there's a lot of COD4 gamers in Malaysia, any sponsor would interested in sponsoring any tournament of COD4.

i wud say the same as well.. unless new-era goes into the venture like SMM then it wud be interesting lol~ ^^

p.s i saw king kong's face in teh paperz~~ ^^

Instead of looking for profit why not do for the community ? to make cod4 become more larger o.o ? ^^v

good idea death, but personally i think it's best to focus on CoD4 for now.

even if you finalise the games, most cafes cannot fulfill enough teams for each of the games. for example, using CoD4, DotA and FiFa08:

CoD4, DotA and FiFa08
cafe A: Y N Y
cafe B: N Y Y
cafe C: N Y N

i believe most cafes will only fall under cafe C, since DotA is so popular. as for FiFa, only a handful of their good players are affiliated with cyber cafes and if they really are, the whole clan is under 1 cafe.

i strongly suggest focusing on CoD4.

also, i hear this talk about international rules. unless most of the international tournaments adopt THE SAME RULESET, then there is no international rule to follow as yet.

why be followers when you can be the leader?

Play CoD4 as a sport. Not just a game.

You want to make the ministry see that its not child's play. That this is a serious sport/game. Where players are willing to compete at the highest standard there is.

If you want to see match servers and scrims online daily. Please adopt Promod. Go competitive, keep the competitive community alive not through fun but the will to compete. Humans have the shortest amount of attention spans. You can't keep players coming for more if it is just fun and money. These kind of players NEVER make it far.

Please don't spoil the essence of Tactical Team Based Shooters. The introduction of perks and hard points is fun for public play. Then again the fresh crowd of players who could make frags even with the minimal amount of skill don't know that they are playing into IW's hands.

They talk trash, act like Mr.Know-It-All and Mr.So-What. If they had the least amount of decency and respect for the term competitive gaming. They wouldn't be stuck at this level.

Please, I urge this community to grow up and stop fiddling with PAM4. If you are not going to take gaming as a sport don't call yourself a competitive gamer. If "FUN" is all you are looking for you can stop playing around with the mods and just play the game as it is. Otherwise don't be a hypocrite and claim you know what the community wants.

Its not easy to explain. But this is how the mind of a competitive gamer thinks. To play is to lose, learn and win from your past experience. I have not learned anything important by playing regular CoD4. Because it is too "FUN".

Do everyone a big favor and not waste more time. We need to form this "competitive" community base ASAP. Right now all I see are clans that claim they are. Don't joke with me. I hardly see matches and servers every night except the mix scrim in JEDI server.

Competitive gaming is not for people who want to have fun playing. Period. That's the bottom line.

I expect to be flamed now. Be nice boys.

"You can't jump, If you ain't got ground to stand on."

This post has been edited by t3quila: Dec 3 2008, 06:46 PM

Quoted by tequila:I hardly see matches and servers every night except the mix scrim in JEDI server.

Mix scrim in JEDI server. And who do they play with? Their community? How many teams do they have in SG? I hardly see lots of players playing at the server except for the same old people over and over again. And of course, teams from other countries once in a blue moon.

From what king_kong said,"why be followers when you can be the leader?". The goal is to lead not to to follow everything because you think "Promod is the way to go because the entire world is following it,by doing so, we'll compete in higher standards because everyone is following it". By the way, SKOTH4 was closed because "there wasn't enough teams". There's your SG community. They don't have enough teams and need players from the world to join in to make it successful. Do you want the same thing to happen here?

Quoted by tequila:Please don't spoil the essence of Tactical Team Based Shooters. The introduction of perks and hard points is fun for public play.

Don't spoil the essence of Tactical Team Based Shooter? It's not being spoiled. It was never spoiled. Promod just simplified it. And the ruleset now also requires thinking on possibilities on what might the opponent be using their perks.

Quoted by tequila:They talk trash, act like Mr.Know-It-All and Mr.So-What. If they had the least amount of decency and respect for the term competitive gaming. They wouldn't be stuck at this level.

Look who's talking. I'm sorry teq but you're acting as one as well. Stuck as this level? From what I can see,a lot of teams are improving.

Quoted by tequila:If you are not going to take gaming as a sport don't call yourself a competitive gamer. If "FUN" is all you are looking for you can stop playing around with the mods and just play the game as it is. Otherwise don't be a hypocrite and claim you know what the community wants.

Not everyone calls themselves competitive gamers. Competitive gaming does not mean following the entire world as well. Don't be a hypocrite and claim you know what the community wants? You do know there'd be a meeting once in a blue moon to ask what they want? Why don't you go there when there is one and ASK who wants Promod?

Quoted by tequila:To play is to lose, learn and win from your past experience. I have not learned anything important by playing regular CoD4.

I agree with the first sentence. But are you sure you haven't learn anything important? From what I played on both mods, I've learned a lot on both of it.

I'll just stop here for now.

This post has been edited by Mr.Pikachu: Dec 3 2008, 07:20 PM

1. Not enough servers. Not players. We on the other hand have NO promod servers besides FsN's.

2. If you are going to complicate competitive play then be my guest. Promod was to simplify yes but also to restore the best of what competitive CoD was. Tell me HOW are you going to keep a community of competitive gamers together from CoD4 to CoD6 if there wasn't such a mod.

3. Teams aren't improving fast enough. I don't expect it to be in one month. But not this slow since the first tournament in Malaysia.

4. Well they DON'T know what they want either. A monkey with the most persuasive screech calls for a vote and you expect all the other monkeys to know what to vote for? Please the last rule discussion I went to failed. The scene will get more competitive in time yes but how long will that be? So many adjustments will be made you'd just end up having something like promod anyway.

5. Aiming down the sight, stratnading, wallbanging, fake planting/defusing can be counted as fundamentals. Nothing else matters really because the other game modes are just pointless. It may be IMPORTANT to you. But to me it can be dismissed. Regular SnD CoD4 with perks has like nearly no bomb plants at all. It looks like TDM to me.

Do I have to say more?

Hmm.... define "competitive"

OK dude... first of all,
We DO call ourselves COMPETITIVE gamers.
Not PROFESSIONAL GAMERS.

The reason behind it?
well, most of us cannot commit!
if u really think gaming is LIFE then please go ahead with all these stuffs and all.
Don't call me a sadist or pessimist because this is Malaysia and for now, gaming is only at a competitive gaming level.
Not at professional-getting-paid-money level.
Most of us are studying and working.

We are trying to make it happen.

Gaming for me comes only 3rd after my education and family.
Yes, this is what i chose and it is my personal endeavor and also my personal commitment problems.

I hope u understand this. Try thinking from another person's point of view.


MAYBE just MAYBE we cod4 community and the Msian gamers community are not just ready yet for this.

I personally have no problem with promod or pam4 or watever bullshit.
If theres a tournament and if i got no commitment issues(no exams) then i will join n play.
Hurm..... what about u? If u question us about our "willingness" to commit to CoD4.... what about u?
I didnt even see u play for WGT.
Well that was quite a big event.

I play games for fun. Not for a living. Thats not just possible YET in Malaysia.



Can u please just for a second think about what we are tryna do?
We are taking it slowly.
CoD4 is NEW(just only reached 1st anniversary).
Do u see CS PRO players getting up and going in like within a year after the game was just out?
What about DotA?
What about FIFA?

Dont be ignorant and assume that whatever u say is correct.

You think money drops from the sky meh?

Why organizers dont go for the minority.
i) no money to gain
ii) no reputation
iii) imagine i put my investment in you and all you do is be an aggressive nut and complain about everything. What do you think the image of your sponsors will be?
iv) everything we have we built together, the entire community. Whenever they think we go to promod, we will. But i honestly think the method you choose to use to push it is in high disregard to what the world is coming to. See what happened to CGS. "it was ahead of its time" they said, you wanna know why it failed? THe people behind it had no experience in what they were showing off, they were not gamers. Gamers helped, sure, but did you actually watch the show, what did you learn from the show aside from seeing people cheer and a few snippits from the game?
v) Gamers have too much high regard for each other or themselves that they ignore what you need to run an industry. If all the companies involved just pumped in money and only the gamers gain from it, what do they get? Money doesnt drop from the sky, there will eventually be a need to earn revenue to cover the cost. The companies that DO gain have their own revenue are usually companies not directly related to the industry, such as Microsoft, Google, Adidas/Nike. They dont need us to make money for them, therefore they can easily sponsor an event or two just to show their support. We dont have that here, that is why we need to first build the community.
vi) You may think you're pro, honestly, the way you put things seems to disregard everything but yourself. Yes you mentioned the rest of the community getting "pro". But what does that mean? DOes it mean the community will stay? More competitions will exist to feed them? Will teams keep getting the opportunity to win and earn money? WILL THEY HAVE A FUTURE. What happens after gaming? Are they going to give up education just to be a "pro" then at 28 have no where else to go?
vii) Competitive gaming is still in its early stages here and gamers are still "immature". Im not mister know it all, but seeing what transpires in the forums, you can see they lack the maturity to succeed in what they want to achieve. One of the few teams that i noticed to have a mature mentality is probably RnF. Their leader understands what all of this means, yet still knows what is really important to begin with. Even within my team, not all of us are "mature".
viii) the MOds dont matter, seriously. You can use PAM, Promod, dumbmod, zombie mod for all i care to turn it into a competition. A competition = competitive play. Even Left4Dead might see it into a side event in WCG. Why isnt there a PROMOD for that? Does it matter? Play what the organizers give you, they pay you. If you want to be part of something like that, then organize your own? Its that simple. If you had the money, all you do is offer it. If i offered RM50k for a knife match in COD4 and opened it internationally and for 128 players, do you think people will join? If i do it yearly, will they complain? How bout i put some hot chiqs as promoters, will more people come? Will i have more people spectating the event, getting interested in the game and then in the end, join promod?

Sigh. This wasnt even the point of the thread. The worse is, you had the guts to bring stuff like this up against our sponsor's rep, which in my opinion is the dumbest move ever. New Era has been a staunch supporter of our community, everyone knows it. Where have you been?

Wow. This is simply amazing, i can see issues with the points written right here on this page.

1. Not enough servers? I wonder why. Common sense will tell you that demand will create supply. If the interest was there why are there not enough servers for ProMod?

2. You mean all competitive games are meant to be simple? I mean seriously, if you cannot tune yourself to fighting in an environment where the enemy has an advantage in an area you have, it's obvious you're not adaptive enough. So, my enemy has juggernaut. That probably means he has less damage to throw at me. Play it by ear.

3. Team aren't improving fast enough? Oh dear. I'm sorry. I'll implant cyberchips to make them learn faster. Maybe we can draw upon 10 years of former CoD gamers to help teach them. Just like CS.

4. Well, if you think it failed, which is SUBJECTIVE. I think you failed to make any worthwhile points as well which is ALSO SUBJECTIVE. Since we all have really important opinions right now like all of the above points I guess it means it's your opinion against ours.

5. Who made you the expert on gaming? Who made you the benchmark for all shoot them up games? Did you design them? Did you win the world championship for CoD on earth and Mars? No seriously. If you were number one in Asia WITH a team i actually knew for CoD i would take your words into consideration. Right now, the ONLY 2 people i seem to know is Alvin and YOU from FSN. And he doesn't say anything. Whereas, you seem to be highly vocal about something only YOUR team seems to be doing. I just don't understand it. It's like being the cat in a kennel full of dogs.

You want us to do it your way and you start telling us that we're know it alls. Well Mr know it all. I guess you're right, because the way I look at it. I've gamed WAY longer that you have. I was playing AND winning gaming tournaments BEFORE the year 2000 and played in other genres as well. What is it that makes you so special that your words are more important than mine? Whenever we meet up you're all sweet and nice but online you turn into some raving psychopath whose only truth is the one he's spouting.

Be nice and I might start listening.

hmm
so teq is trying to say that playing around wif perks and game modes is not competitive and slows down teams to "that" level?
perks=fun, no perks=competitive?

Hmmm.... interesting posts....

I'm just gonna keep it short since there's like.... a few lenghty elaborated posts before me. Constructing another wall of essay is gonna frustrate those tl;dr guys.

t3q, is good to have you voicing your opinion in this forum. Afterall, by definition, "forum" is suppose to be a discussion site where everybody share their thoughts.

However, teq, you're taking things a lil' too far. Instead of posting up your over-passionate ideas filled full with emotions, you could just keep cool and state why Promod is a superior choice. Backing up your views with logic helps a lot... you know, instead of saying that perk sucks and stuff. I think you can come up with better points than that.

Cheers,
I love fat chicks

yes i believe so.

lol. did i? xD

As long there are more tourneys coming up, the community will not die. so keep it with a good work to increase the population cod4.

This post has been edited by sawakita9: Dec 4 2008, 12:22 AM

Yes, as Brian / crash/ death said,
promod, pam4, zombiemod, gaymod, or watever bsmod,
we will still play.

We are trying hard to make the merger.
We dont want CoD4 to die like it did in other countries.
Look at Australia, people already moved to CoD5 like so fast.
Look at Cs, its dying because it is too boring.
We need diversity.

Ok, if u really wana help us, tequila,
I think u should help us by organizing a promod tournament together WITH us or watever.
Dont u think we will listen?
Do u really think we will just say its stupid or blablabla...?
We are all adults.

This post has been edited by FFF.10: Dec 4 2008, 12:42 AM

Don't know if is related or not but still I gonna say it out. =/

When you promote to people to play PROMOD more, who you target? You telling the same person over and over again? That just doesn't help. Eventually you need a bunch of freshies who know nuts about CoD4 to have some "fun" that you mentioned, slowly turning them into competitive play or even professional gamer. Do enlighten me if there's any professional gamer who plays game for their living, AROUND S.E.A cause I don't see any. The most successful team I ever seen is most probably Bf.Nut, being sponsored by SingTel, which is what I've heard since years ago when they are still in BF2 days.

You still need people to support your idea of playing the PROMOD, ONLY if there's a demand. But from what I see, there isn't such demand, besides FsN. Don't drag Singapore, just talk about Malaysia alone. I only see 1/10 CoD4 gamer asked for PROMOD than PAM4. Maybe Malaysia suck, maybe Malaysia just like to do stuff in their own ways. Maybe Malaysian are this slow to adapt international level. But why not YOU, as a Malaysian join and support the local community ruleset? I don't know what you think, but as a Malaysian who doesn't even give a tiny little bit of support to own community, sounds pathetic to me.

I hope you understand that, when there's demanding, there's supplying. Sad case is that not much of people demanding for PROMOD, that's why you only see not many server running under PROMOD. I have no personally issues about PROMOD. I don't mind about playing PROMOD, PAM4, or <insertyourmodhere>. Heck I'd play zombie mod if there's company hosting such event. I don't mind to give it a try. But when local community tried it, not much of them liked PROMOD, that's why they want to stick with PAM4.

Back the the topic, just wondering how do you calculate the points, and how many points for champion, 1st and 2nd runners? And how do you acknowledge the event as part of the calculation point thingy? Any particular requirement need to meet? Minimum team joining, etc.. Maybe king_kong is right that we should concentrate on one particular game before bringing in so many games. A beta testing period?

but bro cc full of dota

The only game S.E.A is really successful at is DotA. Call them Dotards or whatever but as far as I'm concerned, they're the only ones doing a great job promoting e-Sports in our country and proving that Asians can be competitive as well.

I witnessed the growth of the DotA scene in Malaysia with my own eyes.

I was a DotA player once and I can tell you, the competitive scene in Malaysia those days were so small you'd only find a few proper teams to scrim with.

Then slowly, international tournaments hosted by MYM and such appeared which allowed Asian teams to join and try to compete with the world's best. The competitive scene was really heating up and many new teams were formed.

So my question is this, do you know what inspires people to work hard and play the game so well to achieve glory and God knows whatelse?

Competition.

Right now things are heating up in our country. Alot of teams are being formed here and there and so are tournaments.

But believe me when I say one day, you're all going to get bored of playing with each other. Because no matter how much you play, you're just the best in Malaysia. Does it matter?

It's just a matter of time before people abandon this game due to the lack of competition. Even reigning champions would get bored of winning the same thing over and over.

People strive to become the best in the world. New challenges. Zenith and Kingsurf proved to the world that we are not people to look down upon. Pity for them their final wasn't on stage.

And who says there are no pro-gaming teams around S.E.A? Do you know Fnatic signed up XcN's (Indonesian) Dota team?

With the vast number of teams Malaysia has, why don't we actually help the INTERNATIONAL CoD4 scene (Not the LOCAL scene), which is apparently dying, by providing them with more support. I thought SKOTH4 would've been a great start but sadly, it is canceled.

Then again, it's up to the Malaysian community to decide what they want best. Who am I to speak

This post has been edited by Strayfah: Dec 4 2008, 02:45 AM

To be the best in Malaysia. Story ends here. Happy?

Dude... if I have all the time in the world then I wouldve joined.

Well, you might see dota grow with your own eyes, but why did it grow? It grew because Blizzard maintains support for community development and the people behind Dota itself gave a lot of attention to the game.

Despite not being a stock level game - which is a requirement in WCG and WGT, Dota's popularity is built upon Warcraft 3's popularity as well. But do you really think we can reach that level in 10 months, when dota has been around for almost 5 years?

Companies wont even put sights on games that havent even matured yet, why should they? You need a stable community to maintain the games in major events, while smaller companies such as New Era/ Cyber Cafe's put effort in maintaining the game outside these events by doing smaller tournaments (the build up will be a positive effect to events such as WCG/WGT, as the players and teams continously have something to look forward to before the major event)

Also, No one actually said we weren't helping the International CoD4 scene. Why do you think me and my team went down to be marshals and server admins for their tournaments? Why did we help them run their competitions? Besides that, if you are really in touch with those behind the scenes in singapore, we talk alot about supporting each other promod or no, we always go down if they have any tournies and we always invite them if we have any tournies open to them. Its a simple solution to our problems. It is unfortunate that SKOTH was cancelled due to some server circumstances, but it wasnt because of the participants.

I know how the regional teams are doing, most of them are dying because they have nothing to look forward to in COD4. We have got to change that. In time, hopefully soon, i will be in talks with some companies on having a regional competition for COD4 to boost and maintain teams.

I have so far done what i say i would do, why dont the promod supporters even trust me, i dont really know.

I'm sorry if I sounded like I don't trust you but it's just the fact is, other countries are moving on to COD5 and the competition for COD4 internationally isn't strong anymore.

We on the other hand are just playing among ourselves, among Malaysians. If PAM4 is recognized, even if it's just around S.E.A, I would definitely play it. But it's the fact that only we, and maybe a few other countries, are playing it. I fear that we will never get a chance to prove ourselves internationally in COD4.

This post has been edited by Strayfah: Dec 4 2008, 05:09 AM

yeah agree with strayfah
by the time our ruleset is finalized and lets say we are ruleset leador for S.E.A, i dun think many ppl will still be playing cod4 except malaysia. like he said its too late to prove msian internationally.
so wuts gonna happen next? play msia tourney till cod 6 i guess.

This debate is getting boring. We're seeing the same crap over and over again. The same points being bandied around. =/

Some of us are under the illusion that there's international fame just around the corner. I think firstly we need a firm grasp on reality here. The chance of playing an international level opponent (Even at 1.6 level) comes around only once a year, maybe twice if you're very, very lucky/good. The WCG games are in a different level than what we're used to in terms of skill level, funding, and corporate support. For a game (Say, 1.6 or war3) to have international support firstly requires the parent company to really push the game to the WCG/WGT committee (and when I said 'push', I meant 'give away cash'). CoD4 is stagnant because the publisher of the game (Oh, don't want to mention names here but ACTIVISION) couldn't give two poops about pushing it further. They would rather push the next game in their inventory once the quota/profit target for the first game has been reached. Of course, this makes perfect sense in terms of running a business. Who could blame them? However, it's companies like Blizzard that have value-added services for many years post-release (Re: Starcraft) that really make the game and the community really shine.

Sure, some of us say we're moving way too slow. Sure, some of us say the changes are coming on way too quick. Whatever your views are, please keep in mind that not everything is guaranteed to play out in real life as it does in your head. You want to fight for a place to be immortalized on tek9 cinema? Go ahead. You want to play fnatic or dignitas (Well, maybe not dignitas, eh? =P) annually? Train hard for it. Just don't blame us when it doesn't happen because it's not always our fault, your fault or anybody elses fault. Businesses do have a higher calling sometimes. =)

EDIT: MAI ENGLEESH SUX

EDIT2: Believe me when I say: If those things were available to us (WCG INT CoD4 or WGT INT CoD4) I would be the first in line competing for a place there. I'm neither defeatist or cynical, merely realistic.

EDIT3: To Strayfah: How do you propose to prove yourself internationally in CoD4 when there aren't any international tournaments at all for it? I'm still hoping that WCG/WGT next year does pick it up, though. =)

This post has been edited by Grr: Dec 4 2008, 10:26 AM

see the difference between activision and other game makers like blizzard.
How long did blizzard supported 'Starcraft?'
How long did endless strings of patches came out?
How long did they waited and developed the sequel 'Starcraft 2?'

How long did it take activision to come out with a new sequel?
9months?
Are they gona shut down CoD4 and let it rot?

I'd still say CoD5 is just cod2 with perks and tanks! =0
Still cool but they couldve done more!

semua salah cod5!!!

yeah, probably i can blame to codwaw. most of cod4 player move to codwaw like sg.

ah, very good arguements from all parties. good to see many young debaters.

OOT, i'd like to tell you about my experience in Sabah 2 years back when i was told that STARSHIP TROOPERS, yea, the game based on the movie, was a popular game in cafes over there.

was it believable? sounds hard to believe but i did see it with my own eyes. i saw about a dozen players playing STARSHIP TROPPERS, the multiplayer portion, in a cafe. players were screaming and shouting and laughing like in any FPS shooter. i can't remember which cafe was it but it was a rather notable cafe. also, i only saw it 4 months after i was told about it. so to see with my own eyes, 4 months later, was surprising.

strange, even one of the cafes wanted to do a tournament but it was too weird at that time.

anyhow, nothing happened and the game died. what happened after? people played other games, there are so many games to play out there!

so lessons to be learnt from my experience:
all games are fun. y so serious?

anyway, sorry for my old man 'monologue', back to the topic.

again, when most of were at the very first meeting at Damansara nearly 6 months ago, i aimed to make tournaments more fun and exciting for everyone to play, i followed the majority and the majority went to perks which later realised itself to PAM4. PERKS, are a feature in CoD4 that made it stand out from other games. no PERKS, no CoD4. and so PERKS are here to stay until the time comes for a change and that change will be a majority change.

n i also saw the rise of DotA into competitive gaming... i implemented the save game rule every hour because there were so many arguements in Global Net 5 years ago. i had to stand my ground and order a rematch because of disconnections, nearly one hour into the game.

like it or not, competitive / pro-gaming has another 10 more years to go. with the CPL and CGS closing down, it's a sign there was a flaw in the model and i believed is this: cyber gaming isn't spectator friendly.

it also boils down to the sportsmanship of players. although i condone swearing but i do it responsibly (families are excluded).

teq: i still have your proposal, haven't had the right time to look at it, soon i shall.

so finally i'd like to say: stick to PAM4 for the time being. keep it consistent and then review the changes. you don't see FIA changing main rules too often, only before the beginning of the season and everyone shuts up and accepts them.



This post has been edited by king_kong: Dec 4 2008, 02:14 PM

well said king kong .... just wait n c ....

flame wars are so damn ridiculous....anybody can just say all the shits in the world =P. LOL

PS: Ill go with any mod btw PAM4 and PROMOD FTW. Both mod has their ups and downs. Both mods are being used in EUROPE and AMERICA =D wakakakak

like my principle.....Whatever ruleset the community throws we JZ WHACK ONLY!

Mmmmm.... care to share his proposal? Just curious....

:S I forward to you lah.

Yeah, k. Forward to me too. =D

Hmmm.... okay

me too! lol

An interesting shoutcast to listen to:

BASH 87: Crushing Competitive CoD

This post has been edited by t3quila: Dec 4 2008, 09:41 PM

SKOTH4 was initially closed because of insufficient teams, but I got it reopened and got a total of 24+ teams to join. It got closed because Rapture was unable to get servers for SKOTH, due to the incompetency of the nevertheless eager admin. Rapture will always favour DOTA over CoD4, because DOTA is DOTA and has worldwide coverage, is played by almost every teen in Singapore () and is easy as heck to organize and play in. Rapture being a profit-motivated organization simply chose the easy route instead of being the community leader it should be.

And, of course we need to get teams from other countries in SKOTH, have you not noticed SKOTH is an asian-wide tournament for both DOTA and CoD4? But at the end of the day, yes, we only have a handful of CoD4 teams, but then again, what is our country's population compared to yours?

And regardings scrims in our server, at last count, ESP, RvG, SwL, FsN, Gr4\/, FFF, RnF, JEDI, Bf.Nut, UO, sC, <3M, CEBU, Aztig, -aa-, XcN, bc, empnext, eF, eFox, S!GA have all played in our mix scrims. More then half play REGULARLY on our server.


Ever heard of Singapore Sword in the now-defunct CGS?

Or Fnatic's XcN dota division


DotA grew because first of its hardcore fan-base, extremely low system requirements, easily pirated game played online, not much lag issues playing online and yes, its multiple creators attention to the game. Only in the last year+ has Blizzard given support to the DotA, before then, it was ignored, wasn't even on the "Official WC3 Mods" list in blizard website.


heehee to the bolded part and lol @ protective community, and werent you paid to marshal?


Point me to a tournament in europe or america in the last 3-4 months which has used pam4 please.

Oh, and YOUR pam4 and THEIR pam4 is very different, their pam4 ruleset is basically promod with some differences

This post has been edited by SnapperJR: Dec 7 2008, 08:23 AM

Paid indeed. 3 months late and peas.

If i was there for the pay, i wouldnt have taken it up. 5 bucks an hour i'd rather work as a waiter.

Anyhow, the MOD doesnt matter, because now, there are 3 communities, if you hadn't noticed. 1. PAM, 2. Promod, 3. DAMN:MW.

1. PAM's been replaced with a new modder, bulletworm, while its original modder is working on CoDTv. (CsTV for COD, or so it seems)
2. Promod's modder, raf1 has left COD4's scene to focus more on CoD5 leaving promod to its own. Despite having a final release, we may see the communities in EU/NA drift from promod to DAMN:MW.
3. Because of this Team Dignitas Manager "Morg" joins up with DAMN:MW's creator to further his own version of a competitive mod. Because it came out so late, most EU/NA players are still stuck between the two.

The only real way to solve this issue is to approach them directly, if they cannot put the effort of pushing their mod for a more prominent event which is recognized worldwide, such as WCG or WGT this situation will continue and escalate till it kills COD4. Their local/regional e-sports regiments are still not enough to keep them standing. As much as we would like to beat them at their game, it will be impossible until they figure out what they want over there. And im not talking about it being a side events. If they can push for it being a major event or a grand final, we as the SEA community can easily band our resources together to attempt to be a part of that, regardless of which mod is chosen. Organizers will mostly be happy they have a standard after that anyway.

Imagine having to change your gameplay everytime some moron decides say "im leaving cod4 to mod cod5, kthxbai" and his "partner" joins some other modder to make "pokemonmod" which he brings his followers like a flock of sheep over, thoroughly splitting the community again. Next thing you know, you'll have 10000 mods, with 100 competitions that have no links what so ever, Call of Duty 4 : Modders Warfare.

The main reason i somehow stick to pam is because it hasnt changed much. Yeah, we use a different ruleset, our own configs per say, but its not like we're not going to port over. If they can't keep their heads together, im not following their footsteps.

Anyway, CGS is dead. lol

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Added on December 7, 2008, 1:16 pmsigh, please go to wormsworld.net join the forum and see what PAM actually stands for before you make comments like that plx.
there is no YOUR pam and MY pam. Pam4 is a mod, not a ruleset. In order to be officially part of the PAM4 ruleset system, you need a league the size of a minimum of 24 teams with an active website up 24/7. If you have, you can apply to include your ruleset into the PAM4 system. PAM4 currently has more than 76 rulesets in total.

Promod was created to limit the amount of rulesets, having reduced the total number of rulesets down to 6 if im not mistaken out of the 56 originally in PAM4. While doing so, they combined the 56 rulesets taking out the best of each and finally coming up with solutions to implement as a competitive mod. That is why you'll see weapon changes and performance boosts in promod.

Both Promod and PAM4 goals are nearly the same, to create a unified mod for leagues/tournaments and competitive play where ever possible.

DAMN:MW was the first competitive mod ever created for COD4 but never really took off. DAMN initially had the same goals as the mods above, but its now taking a whole new direction with the help of Morg.

So who're you going to follow?

This post has been edited by crashtec: Dec 7 2008, 01:16 PM

abc, are u paid by someone to talk here?

1. bulletworm is PAM4's creator, garetjax was just PAM's original creator, so why are we discussing this when bulletworm made PAM4 in the first place, and recently came back to update PAM4 for the last time and make PAM5?
2. What's the point in this statement, at last point, PAM was totally dead without any support until bulletworm suddenly came back and it is unlikely there will be much more support since like raf1, bulletworm is making his version of PAM for cod5. I do agree there is a possibility that EU/NA may drift to DAMN:MW but thats not likely now, it's wayyyyy too bug-ridden and it needs some changes.
3. So what? At least there's support for a mod AND a ruleset. Like I stated previously, I'd still play DAMN:MW over your ruleset, because DAMN is very much more competitive, although the game dynamic is changed TOTALLY.

My point about YOUR and THEIR pam4 was basically the configs, many of your malaysian players seem confused by this point and think PAM4 is a ruleset per say, when like you say it's basically a mod.

Like I said in the other thread, I have the sincere belief that your ruleset shackles your players skill level, leaving them with little progress whatsoever, and with a community self-brainwashed into stating stuff like "ohhh promod is ezmod" when most of them have never even tried promod, as well as self-brainwashed into believing that their own ruleset is better, because this is what they've played from the start. I giggle like a little schoolgirl when I hear that. If it was so easy in ezmod, why can't you guys win in it?

I'm only here to state my opinion, and start educating people. I know I may sometimes come off as harsh, but you know what, thats the only thing that will attract enough attention so people will read, look at my Asian CoD4 Championship posting, not even 1 post of criticism or of support.

This post has been edited by SnapperJR: Dec 7 2008, 03:38 PM

To make it clear to everyone:

1. PAM 4, Promod and DAMN: MW are all mods.

2. PAM4 is not "the malaysian Ruleset"

3. PAM4 allows for certain weapons, perks to be banned, and add few other things like Team counter and what not.

4. "Malaysian ruleset" is just a set of config files which the current community has agreed to ban perks/guns, customize timers, and what not.

5. What we use for local tourney is PAM4 as the MOD, and then apply "Malaysian Rulset" config files to it to make all the bad things in the original COD4 go bye bye.


I hope everyone in knows the difference between PAM4 and "Malaysian Ruleset" now.

P.S: WGTMY, or ESPGL are all the same PAM4 mod, with "Malaysian Ruleset" configs, they are NOT new MODS.
There is stil the basic 3 mods now, PAM4, Promod, DAMN: MW

I want to make this very clear with you. I don't know about brainwashing, but whatever choice the malaysian community made, was their own. In the end, only a select few will be interested in going pro/porting over to new games/mods. The level of competition increases whenever these teams make a choice to improve further. That is why there are levels planned for such porting. From the amatuer to pro, it should be a step by step process. This way, COD4 as a whole still can maintain a community even though there are some amatuer teams and some pro teams. So long as they exist as one whole entity, it will be easier to get participants. The ruleset was created to promote the game locally, so long as the game exists in the background.

It is planned to be something like this : Malaysian Ruleset -> Regional Ruleset -> Most Popular International Ruleset. If the Regional Ruleset is the same as the most popular ruleset, then it will be chosen for higher level players.

This way, you'll have a steady number of participants but at different levels of tournaments. Weaker teams will not be as likely to leave the scene, while the stronger teams have a chance to improve with higher level tournaments/leagues. Why do you think we have an Amatuer League now? Do you think we're that short sighted?

I hope not, because it reflects on your own personality. You come to this forum throwing aggresive comments in a facade of "opinions" then justifying them later when you piss someone off?

It is estimated that in 6 months we would have a steady 16 Amatuer Teams and perhaps 8 Pro Teams. As time goes by, with continued effort, this number will slowly grow to the extent that participation will no longer be an issue, since there will always be entree level teams that will likely push forward into competitive play. These numbers are the optimum to continue without external participation. This way, teams can have a choice of scrim locally and internationally, rather than be forced to find teams to scrim with online.

You do not grasp the concept of community building, that is perhaps why you don't understand what im talking about. If you're here to teach, you should be eager to learn as well. I'm not saying i know everything, i admit i learned a lot when i was over in singapore but haven't you learned anything from our community? Instead of laughing and giggling like the girl you are, ever ask why our community still grows despite our "shitty" ruleset?

Thanks Nightkillr,

and brian, if you do intend to eventually grow into international ruleset why was this not announced earlier?

eh props to you since your so proud of your growing community, but I throw aggressive opinions? Perhaps you should look at my first post in this thread and to who I quoted to, if your members want to sit in there and spread lies to justify why the "malaysian" ruleset should stay, then I will always seek to clarify the truth. And, yeah, I'm the one being aggressive going around calling other people girls and putting words in other peoples mouth.

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Added on December 7, 2008, 8:18 pmActually, you know what, I'm bowing out from this argument, I've said my piece and Night has clarified a lot of what I wanted to say.

Any more of my arguing, and I only further entrench your mindset of malaysian ruleset vs promod and international ruleset and more people will resist it, just so they can argue with me.

I wish you luck for the future.


This post has been edited by SnapperJR: Dec 7 2008, 08:18 PM

They get information on a need-to-know basis. Too much information may just confuse them more. I've announced this many times throughout the year already anyway.

No one is spreading lies, they are merely defending their ideals, like what you're doing. This is barely even in the right thread for all of this crap.

Excuse me if i am interrupting this discussion but aren't we suppose to discussing about the plans for next year. So far for what i've read in the past 30 minutes for 2 and a 1/2 half pages is a very serious debate on mods, going international, bringing up the community etc etc. (good constructive and important topics mind you )

Yes i agree that all these are very VERY important topics that the CoD4 community should discuss address and debate it in a healthy way.
YES this is a forum and many of us are very passionate for the game we all love but PLEASE if we are to continue to discuss all these 'current issues' it will be FOREVER ongoing.

If ever anyone should discuss this topics (which i would encourage since this will help ANY SIDE OF THE STORY to raise their opinions and let others view their points) , can't we take it into PM's or open another forum topic so that anyone can debate whichever viewpoint they would want.

I assume everyone here is an healthy growing adult/young adult who should know the meaning of the word called "ETIQUETTE" so try not to let the ugly monster control what you are typing and always come up with constructive criticism.

passion mode OFF

Back on topic: Love the idea of 'stadiums' and going to other stadiums to play away. Its a bloody cool concept actually. Sounds like ESPGL V2.0 is in the making but with more running about weeeeeee.
However, i kinda concerned about the 7 weeks to complete 1 meet. I feel that it could be too long and draggy. How about we cut down the numbers of cybers?
There might be a few kinks too.
Firstly, this is an experimental tournament style that hasn't been tested yet. 2ndly, i think convincing cybers to do this concept will not be an easy task for the fellow negotiating it.
MY suggestion is the least we could do this time is to cut it to say 4-6 cybers, have a strong foundation of cybers where we can always rely and trust on. Nxt, once we have completed this, we can spread the circle even bigger and with a better credibility, other cybers would be more willing to join in this venture for the following year. What do you think peeps?

The world would be dull and boring if everyone shared the same viewpoint, thus the difference in opinion is what makes us human.


p.s. i was at awe to c almost every major 'player' in the cod4 community started to appear when i read this topic. Many things raised actually taught me more about the complexity of the gaming cycle and some in and outs of cod4. keep up the good work you big guys up there. small peeps like me will keep cheering on.

This post has been edited by amakor aka mama: Dec 8 2008, 02:49 AM

Hmm, the main reason why i proposed 8 is because there are currently about that number of cybercafe's that are sponsoring teams. So, i dont want to leave them out if they are interested.

ABC, I think there were quite a few things you weren't aware of about the planning for the future of the CoD4 community in Malaysia here. Yes, perhaps we were "stubborn" before, but clearly the time is ripe for change now. Switching over too early would have seen too many of the newer teams drop out and we would have been left with an ever-growing divide of skill between the top teams and newer teams. This way, when we do switch, it will be done with the consensus of the majority rather than a select few. While I don't believe in the purity of the democratic process, I do believe this is the only way to guarantee the participation of the majority in the future. Of course, if you had noticed, in this whole discussion, there weren't many posts defending our local ruleset. This doesn't mean that the community hates the local ruleset but rather is mature enough to notice the deficiencies there.

Mama, I think this debate was important enough not to be done through PMs. The community needs to know about the information revealed here. Yes, it's off topic, but important nonetheless. =) You are right about the both sides being passionate about what and why they believe. I suppose the mods will split the thread if they see fit.

And finally, yes, we desperately need some sort of global unifying mod and a ruleset. Not just for us, but for the CoD4 community all over the world to grow even further. I do believe this game still has quite a bit of undeveloped potential. =)

This post has been edited by Grr: Dec 8 2008, 02:17 PM

We'll have to see what CEVO and ESL come to at the end of December. Then we'll know where this is all heading.

I agree with the unifying ruleset and it doesn't matter WHAT is it. With sufficient numbers you could create a mod with bananas for knives and supersoakers for guns and you'd still have a playable mod. It IS kind of saddening that people who did not understand the working model behind what a lot of the leaders here were trying to do and fought against it. We were talking about it a few nights ago and came to the conclusion that we couldn't make the decision ourselves because there were too many factors involved. So, in a way the meeting on the 20th is to clear up everything in preparation for 2009.

And yes, sometimes, you have to hide information on a need to know basis. Reason? I've met enough people to know and read enough in this forum that people with only half the information will run off spouting their mouth thinking its the god absolute truth. I don't pretend to know any of the government policies of any of the neighbouring countries on Gaming (I'm Malaysian btw). I don't profess to know the general behaviour and I've kept from using blanket statements unless they happen to be true (e.g Every Malaysian grew up surrounded by piracy in one form or the other.) I mean seriously, i'm sure you've told part of a story to a friend and your friend runs off to tell everyone that it is the gospel truth. Better not to mention anything at all and let the ones who are interested in doing, do and those who just want to talk, talk.

Cheers
Sanction

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Added on December 8, 2008, 9:48 pmWait, i just realised. Did Snapper just call us liars? This is REALLY good for international relations.

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Added on December 8, 2008, 9:51 pmI also just realised he bowed out of the conversation just as he realised he couldn't justify any of his comments because they weren't thought through in the first place. And don't use that, I'm leaving now because i'm more mature than you line. It's old. If you can't justify your words except with not understanding how something works, don't pretend to know what others are thinking. None of us said our way was the right way. But you're assuming we are, and you are SAYING that you're smarter better faster. So please Snapper, please don't come in here, sling insults, and think you're all the better because of it. You don't sound harsh. In fact you just sound like a guy who doesn't have all his facts who wants to come in and seem like he knows what he's talking about. I don't know you personally, but your online image really sucks right now. =) Oh wait, you probably don't care because you're on the other side of a screen.

This post has been edited by Sanction: Dec 8 2008, 09:54 PM

LOL.

yeah, if we look at what we all said before, its quite entertaining.

:S You have been trolled. Well not by me by snapper.

haha, doesnt matter la, i think we all will have settled this by next weekend

actually dis discussion so far is d most progressive and least 'flaming' of all the mods/ruleset discussion thread thrown around the forum, me ish think.

agreed. i think internationally, the mod/ruleset to settle on for competitive play isn't solid or agreed upon by all yet. Prolly why it is difficult to push the game out for really global cyber events.... hopefully next year! then mayb we can juz adopt watever mods/ruleset that is used. (fingers crossed that EC is still available) XOXOXO