Wow, what's ASEAN Free Trade Agreement ar? What's that ar?? I am so scared le, how??

Dun go off topic pls. We are discussing about dispensing right. Start another thread on FTA if you wanna debate on it (i happen to know a few things about it. We frogs have TV and internet in our well you know)

Who's being ignorant here? I gave you the numbers, a very good article, and a few valid points. Many forummers had given their views and yet you ridiculed them as they were against your interest. you are going around the same issues we have discussed and not giving any constructive comment. You even start raising issues with choice of words used (you are the one started the issue on "can", england sensei ) Look who's the frog now.

Opps, this is really going to be my last lar. Good bye boy.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 14 2008, 03:23 PM

Again you miss the point. He gives numbers and statistics about the whole country, but nothing about Klang Valley specifically. So I wonder what statistics the HM has about Klang Valley to consider doing a trial there.




Yup you don't sound funny, you sound pompous and presumptuous.



Now it is you not thinking clearly enough. The gap between bomoh and doctor is far wider than the gap between doctor and pharmacist. The bomoh is not qualified at all, he has no formal medical training at all. However, while a doctor may not be as good with meds as a pharmacist the doctor still has some knowledge about medicines. I think most people wouldn't trust a bomoh to do diagnosis, but would trust the doctor to dispense.

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Added on December 14, 2008, 3:24 pmWhat's happening in 2013 related to doctors and pharmacists?

This post has been edited by jchong: Dec 14 2008, 03:24 PM

I was right
Like many other things, you know absolutely nothing yet too arrogant to ask. You are so full of it and yet didn't realize your own ignorant. Typical close minded "frog in the well mentality". Totally unlike jchong who is here to share his view and ask for others view. Isn't that what this forum is for?


http://www.hunton.com/files/tbl_s47Details...ngaporeFTAs.pdf
"Mutual recognition arrangements covering accountancy services and dental and medical practitioners were
signed at the Singapore meeting. The arrangements allow professionals licensed in one ASEAN member
state to practise in other member states."

.......For your info, it was supposed to take effect 2010 but now pushed back to 2013. Malaysia verified this agreement in 1997 so unless we can pull a Houdini trick, we are stuck.

Yalar, i dun know larr. I can't access to google to search for such info.

That's actually a good thing if you ask me. Why should i be scared? And most of the doctors willing to work in msia will be those from poorer states. You actually think doctors in S'pore wanna practice here?

Haih. I shared my view. and you ridiculed me without basis. What else i can say?

Good good. Keep up the good work frog boy.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 14 2008, 04:06 PM

Klang Valley is part of this country but Klang Valley is NOT the whole country.

Therefore YOU missed the point. The point is NOT about the whole country so why drag in data of the whole country? Ignore that. It's irrelevant and has no place in this discussion on Klang Valley.

On bomoh vs doctor. It was brought up to illustrate my point. But truth be told, in the middle of the jungle and away from civilization and if the bomoh is the person most qualified, bomoh it is. May be you people might want to take your chance with a monkey but I don't.

The Key word here is "whoever is most qualified" at that particular time and place.

BTW, there really are some places without any medical personnel, not even a dresser.

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Added on December 14, 2008, 4:15 pmI thought you gone already. Still here?

Yes, they will want to practice in Klang Valley. And we are talking about the Klang Valley, aren't we?

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Added on December 14, 2008, 4:16 pmI am so glad that you have accepted your identity as a frog

This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Dec 14 2008, 04:16 PM

Yeah, still here. cuz i find your "superior mentality" entertaining and hilarious.

Harlo, that's year 2013. By that time if we have enough pharmacists, then i'll be glad to pass them the dispensing right. BTW, i expect more health care professionals to flock to Singapore. All the good local doctors and pharm will be practicing in S'pore, then all the not so good ones from poorer states will be replacing them.

PLs put up some valid points why you want to run the trial so badly. Btw, the trial will be implemented, just no date is set.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 14 2008, 04:23 PM

It is so easy to make a frog happy

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Added on December 14, 2008, 4:23 pmLet talk on the ASEAN agreement.

What effects do you think it will have on our medical professional (not just the doctor)? Will we be swamped by doctors from Burma who are willing to charge a fraction of the normal price? Do you think our standard of care will deteriorate?

This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Dec 14 2008, 04:24 PM

Yup, just like another frog mentioned here, he's here just for fun.

Come on, that's another issue. What is it gonna do with dispensing right. Stick to the topic will ya.

If you really wanna discuss on that, open another thread.

Btw, you think people who can afford private health care are as naive as you? They'll, of course, look for a good one (Msian). Most burma doctors will be working in gov hospitals. There are already many working the gov hospitals.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 14 2008, 04:28 PM

You are too shallow and short sighted just like a frog.

In globalization, the strong or advanced nation often win at the expense of the weak and less advanced.

If Malaysian government is being responsible, she should make sure our banks and industries and service sector (of which health is one of them) are strengthened with up to advanced country's standard. And dispensing right is one of them.

Do you know what I am saying? Or are you still sleeping inside your coconut shell, frog?

Then i can tell you one thing, we are definitely not ready.

More important issues like the quality of health care professionals need to be improved. Dispensing right, at the moment, is still not a burning issue to be solved, as we have shortage of pharmacist.

Hmm, seriously, situation in msia won't change, even if we want to. Therefore, if you can't adapt to the system, just get the hell out of here. Many of my friends are already planning to leave this country for good. I am currently planning too, as my skin color is not dark enough to enter the local Master programme.

Seriously no point arguing and calling names here, as nothing will change. Neither of us have the power to change the system for the better. Facts of life, pls accept it.

BTw, just to make my stance clear. I dun agree with the trial before we have a centralized health care delivery system.

Btw, do frogs sleep in coconut shell? First bomoh, then oracle, now frogs sleep in coconut shell.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 14 2008, 05:11 PM

Even though we are not ready, we still have to make it ready by 2013. The alternative consequences is worst and our competitor doesn't give a damn as to whether we are ready or not. In fact, they will be even happier that we are not ready. This is a fact as thing stand.

IMO, the only way out of this situation is to make ourselves ready. And to be ready means to upgrade our service and system up to their standard. Doesn't matter how it is done or why it can't be done etc. It just have to be done. Period.

If we can have a wholesale change of system to centralized health care system, good. If we can't, even piece meal change is still better than not doing anything at all. We can't just say.....dispensing is just small corner of the whole system so it can not have much impact so let's not do it. But the fact is, if you change just a small corner of the system, you can change the whole system as well.

An example. We often say before Mar-08, my 1 vote is useless. But after Mar-08, we realize that one vote of yous can change the whole system. Same logic.

Actually, what competitor you are talking about?
What i have foreseen is with FTA, non-bumi health care professionals will flock to Singapore. Then, they will be replaced by doctors from poorer ASEAN states.
So, issue like dispensing right can't have much impact on the future. Many will still be leaving unless there's an increment in salary and reduction in workload. Mind you, there are many other factors (social, political) which contribute to the brain drain.

As for your concept of March 08 election, the scenario is totally different. For the election, most of us are fed up with the corrupted gov, and wanted a change. However as for dispensing right, only the pharmacists are calling for the change. The public are not ready (not even aware) for the benefits and the rising cost of such change. To be honest, most of the doctors are not ready to let it go at this point. So you think mere 4000+ pharmacists can stand up to 20000+ doctors?

BTW, we do not have the luxury of time. 2013 is a mere 4 years away. Time is running out fast. Turning around the entire system to centralized system is like turning around a big ocean going ship and it takes a looooong time, assuming we have the money and political will.

In fact, I reckon we are already running out of time. I further reckon this trial may already be too little, too late. And yet, we have people resisting that.

Look at it another way. If you can't have the whole cake, at least part of it is still better than nothing. And try to look at the interest of this country and not just one profession's.

Come on, FTA is not Armageddon. It is, in fact, an opportunity. There are many loop holes which can be exploited, as with any other system. Why so desperate for a change when the benefits and drawbacks are not even clear (as for dispensing right)?

Come back to the present pls.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 14 2008, 05:28 PM

I reckon those non-bumi wanting to go to Singapore has already gone there. Just go to Mt.Elizabeth and you can see them there.

As for Singaporean coming here. Are you so sure they couldn't come here? The main thing preventing them coming here is because we don't really allow them (from what I heard....legal, ownership %??). FYI, there is already a Singaporean owned hospital in Sarawak and they probably would love to do the same in KL.

The main differences between the election and ASEAN thing is this: With election, the people wanted to change. With ASEAN, changes will be forced on you so you just have to prepare for it. Like it or not.

No, not really. Many non-bumi trained in local private medical colleges want to go but can't do so at the moment, as the degrees are not recognized.

Opening hospital here and doctors coming here are of different things. Most of the doctors served in S'porean owned hosptal are local doctors, not s'porean doctors. Besides, there are many other factors (political instability, racism, and security issues) which prevent them from coming here. Singapore is a much better country.

I am not talking about ASEAN, but dispensing right lar. Can you pls read properly for once?

i think you all have a mistaken understanding of what the asean thing is about.....there will still be barriers.....

it just say that there is cross RECOGNITION of qualifications, and right to register and practice across member states......it does NOT say they you actually CAN work, as there is another barrier which the agreement cannot breach, ie immigration laws.......

so effectively, someone graduated from thailand in medicine will have his qualification recognised, and can be registered to work in spore.........IF he can find a job, and hence apply for a WORK VISA......

the effect is just like the new immigration rules in uk.......a msian student who graduated from say leeds, can do the 2 years foundation, and then be FULLY registered with the GMC......BUT he will NOT be allowed to be offered a job, and get a work visa, unless the employer can prove that they cannot find another doctor from either uk, or the eu to do the job.........

wanna bet something like this will be used to control the movement of people?.......remember, asean is NOT like the eu.........a non-citizen/pr needs to have a visa/permit to work in another member country........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Dec 14 2008, 06:58 PM

In that case, the issue with dispensing right can wait. Solve other more important issues first.

I think you have overstated the effect of the ASEAN FTA. 2013 will not spell doom for Malaysian doctors. Yes, there will be some influx of foreign doctors but by and large the majority of doctors will still be Malaysian.

But this is digressing from the topic of dispensing rights...

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Added on December 14, 2008, 9:50 pmYes, if we want to compete against foreign professionals from advanced countries coming here we should improve the standard locally. But how will dispensing right help?

If Malaysia doesn't give dispensing right to pharmacists I think many foreign pharmacists won't want to come here because hard to 'cari makan' or maybe they won't be fulfilled professionally because they can't play their full role. This will help to protect the local pharmacists no? Assuming if a lot of foreign pharmacists come into the country wouldn't this also negatively affect the local pharmacists?

This post has been edited by jchong: Dec 14 2008, 09:50 PM

Changes are something inevitable through time....

Human change from time to time to move forward, to advance...

Those who embraces change and are adaptable would move forward...

Those who are afraid of changes, will be left behind...