Put some paragraphs already. Makes it easier to read. (I'm a reader and I am passing judgment regarding the paragraph issue)

Nah, im done. its ok. Let him be. Thanks for reading anyway.

See, i told you so.

I think that's enough of bickering and trolling. Forget about paragraphing and who is being more childish.

Back to the topic.

0) On the issue of money (oOOoo, sensitive issue), I'm sure the feeling is mutual here for both professions. Doctors don't want to let the pharmacists have sole dispensing rights because only then can they monopolise the sales of medication, and the pharmacist wants sole dispensing rights for the very same reason as well.

To other issues.

1) Doctors claim that it is troublesome for the patient to buy medications elsewhere.
(In KL or Klang Valley, there are substaintial numbers of pharmacies, usually within 1-2 shop rows away, the pharmacists are asking for a trial in KV not on nationwide basis.)

2) Doctors claim that there are usually no pharmacist to dispense medications, instead it is handle by some shopkeeper.
(Pharmacies have at least one in-house Pharmacist, and if medications are dispensed by shopkeepers when the Pharmacist is absent, they are liable to charges in court, and Pharmacy Enforcement sees to that. Also, most pharmacies employ Pharmacy Assistants to help in simple dispensing. I'm not so sure about the lady who calls my name to collect medications all the time in my local clinic. I wonder what qualification she posses?)

3) Doctors claim that it is more cost-effective for patients to see the doctor and get their medications from them.
(Yes, bundle and sell, might be cheaper. But sometimes, doctors purchase their stock from pharmacies as well, so It's hard to say until we try it out)

4) Doctors claim that there isn't sufficient pharmacists/pharmacies to do dispensing.
(True if on a nationwaide scale. Hence, which is why a pilot test is proposed to see if it will work in areas where they are enough pharmacist/pharmacies)

5) Doctors claim that this system is not suitable in our country.
(Suitable or not, the pilot test will tell. This system is very effective in other countries. Also, the NHS system in UK may also be modeled upon to allow more pharmacist back to the private sector to do dispensing)

6) Doctors claim that generics sold in pharmacies are not good.
(Generics do possess a certain amount of efficacy before it may be marketed in our country. Although I dare not vouch that it is as good as branded originals. However, consider this situation, patient has gastric. Doctor prescribes some hi-fi losec which costs the patient some RM100 for one-weeks worth. Patient then has to scrimp and save every penny, and hence did not eat well. Thus gastric worsens. Compared to a situation where patient used generic omeprazole at RM14 for one week's worth, and gets to eat normally. You do the math.)

7) Doctors claim that there are no 24hr pharmacies.
(This, the pharmacist must start. No excuses. Being in the healthcare industry, it must be patient orientated. Anyway, pharmacies who don't offer these services might lose their competetive edge sooner or later)

8)Doctors claim that pharmacist are dispensing prescription-only-medications to patients without a prescription.
(This is true, and needs to change. Pharmacist are regulated by Pharmacy Eforcement.And Pharmacists caught doing this, should be punished heavily.)

With seperate prescribing and dispensing, what the pharmacists offer are these:

A) A system where pharmacists may counter-check prescriptions by doctors for contra-indications, drug interactions, dosing/frequency errors, etcs.

B) A more in-depth counselling with regards to medications rather the regular, "this is for hypertension, take one table once daily (full stop)" recieved in most clinics.

C) A choice of generics or branded medication, while most clinics carry only one brand of the medication. Hence visiting a pharmacy might be more cost saving.

Pharmacists are only asking for a pilot test. Why are the doctors getting so worked up for? It might not even succeed. But during the time this issue was raised by our DG of Health, newspapers are swamped with articles against this. Surely, the doctors can see pharmacists' point as well right? Or do they see point number 0 as far more important? But there are doctors who are suportive of this directive, and pharmacists do understand their limitations due to the acute lack of pharmacists nationwide, but can't both profession work hand in hand to bring a better service to patients? Doctors, think of the Hippocratic Oath. Pharmacist, think of your Medication and Ethics Module. Think Hard. Then maybe we can ditch point number 0 and work on a healthcare system which is best for patients.

Edit: Some minor grammatical errors

This post has been edited by Kain_Sicilian: Feb 20 2009, 03:24 PM

Now, I'm practicing in Australia where we have seperation of dispensing right from the doctor. Many points were made in previous posts about the advantages and the basis of giving the dispensing right to pharmacist. The one I wish to highlight is the regulatory/law monitoring of the drugs. What and how much drug someone is selling needs to be regulated. This is most important in regulating prohibited drugs and drugs of addiction. Govern have to then expand the regulatory body to make sure the correct practices have been complied by both doctors and pharmacists.

Not an easy process if you ask me. Politics and buerocracy. Perhaps a good lobbying group from pharmacist association. (is there one in Malaysia?)

Another aspect is the mind set of the general public. They expect to pay less with lesser ailment when they see the doctor. This is applicable in Malaysia where common illness can be treat with common medication. If dispensing right were to be taken away from doctors, they will have to charge their patient base of time spent and procedure done on consulting patients. Someone mentioned RM30 for a single consultation to be implemented if the system commenced in Malaysia. Well, the cost here is Australia is AUD30+ for a 10-20 mins consultation. However, the government subsidises the medical fees. Most people in Malaysia will find this hard to accept.

As above mention, the change will directly increase the cost for healthcare in Malaysia. Whether or not the public are willing to have a safer and more stringent medication dispensing at the cost of increased healthcare cost its up to the public and politician I guess.

While the implementation means more business to the pharmacist, it also mean [B]significantly more work load and more responsibility.

Hopefully this system will eventually be implemented but much more education and change in mindset have to be done by the general public, doctors and well as the pharmacist.

P.S I do choose lifestyle over money anytime.

This post has been edited by dunaskwhy: Feb 20 2009, 04:32 PM

Politics and buerocracy. Sigh~ In Malaysia this will be VERY difficult. And the Pharmacist Association (known as Malaysian Pharmacuetical Society) does exist, but is weak to say the least.

Yes, regulation and enforcement of laws is one big thing to top up. To hope to implement this system in the near future is almost impossible, but one can hope. However, with the huge outcry from doctors, it seems, they (but not all) are not the least bit willing to even give this system a shot for they would not even accept a pilot test running in only a small restricted area.

Yeah. So for them, it still boils down to money. Y would they wan to give u a pinch of their wealth (someone's perception)? Then again, with dispensing seperation, it does not mean that pharmacists will prosper. This is based on a study conducted in Korea ( in case someone pushes for evidence again).

Quite a number of retail pharmacists do not want the seperation to be implemented for fear that their business will be affected (imagine you can sell your drugs only in the presence of prescriptions vis-a-vis our current system)

So for our suspicious fren, all i wan to get across to you is this: Recognition of role! Nothing more nothing less.

This post has been edited by giovanni: Feb 21 2009, 08:27 AM

eh, you are still here? I thought you are done de?

Finally, you have learned to do paragraphing. Good good.

yeah....i finally learned. Cos i am willing to learn. Perhaps u shud learn to do the same too

This post has been edited by giovanni: Feb 21 2009, 02:04 PM

Mind to point out what i should learn?
I have stated in many posts that ultimately, sole dispensing right should be given to pharmacists, provided that our health care system is a centralized one. Perhaps you need a reading glasses?

Perhaps i cant teach a big headed person to learn something new. That someone who always pushes for evidence where most of his points are based on his on 'facts of life'. When challenged, he cant stop the bitter bickering but to start telling people to wear glasses, calling ppl names i.e newbies etc.

Get a life n grow up. Im not interested in this personal feud. At the end of the day, i still hav to say that i cant get any points across a stubborn mind. Sarcasm wont harm me. Oh ya, i do realize paragraphing makes things quite neat and comprehensible. At least it makes ppl flared up (so it means somebody got my point).

What do you mean by centralized health care system? Like those in UK or Aust or USA?

Eh, still here?? What lar you
As i have mentioned before, quote me a sentence of mine which belittles the pharmacists. I have told in my previous posts that my mom is a pharmacist. So how can i belittle my own mom? Try to use your brain cells to think it over.

Flare up?? Nah, not at all lar. Get used to people like you in this forum de.

Regarding name calling, are you aware of who started it first?
Let me give you an example:

BTW, if you really want to look through my posts, just press the button "Show posts by this member only" at the top right corner of any of my post. You dun have to look through the entire thread like you claimed.

Like the one in UK.

If i am not mistaken, Singapore has done the trial and it failed miserably. Can anyone confirm this?

This post has been edited by hypermax: Feb 21 2009, 06:23 PM

9,440 doctors vs 3,321 pharmacists in the private practice, a ratio of 2.84. Plenty of pharmacist to take care of prescription.


Local docs to face foreign challenge
By FOONG PEK YEE

KUALA LUMPUR: Local medical professionals have to compete with their foreign counterparts when the services sector under the Asean Free Trade Area (Afta) is opened up by end of the year.

Health Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai said at least 70% of the equity will be opened to foreign participation by the period.

This would lead to an increase of foreign professionals, particularly from disciplines which were in demand, those not available locally or facing a shortage, he said.

“The locals will have a choice of seeking treatment locally instead of having to go overseas.

“This is also a boost for medical tourism as foreigners will be attracted by good services and affordable rates in Malaysa,” Liow said in an interview.

Liow however said that the foreign professionals must be registered with the Malaysian Medical Council (MMC).

Malaysia has 23,738 doctors, 3,165 dentists and 4,571 pharmacists. They include 9,440 doctors, 1,625 dentists and 3,321 pharmacists in the private practice who may be directly affected by the move.

Admitting that local professionals were initially quite hesitant in accepting the move, Liow said his ministry, via several briefings with them, managed to convince them that the move was inevitable and that they (local professionals) should be ready and able to compete with their foreign counterparts.

“Like many other countries in the world, Malaysia is gearing up to make medical tourism more attractive to foreigners.

“There are also a lot of requests from foreigners, many whom are Japanese and Koreans and residing in Malaysia, for treatment by doctors or specialists from their country,” Liow said.

How many of these foreign experts from developed countries will actually come to Malaysia? I can foresee most will go to Singapore. Only those doctors from Myanmar and other poorer countries will come to Malaysia.

As for Burmese doctors, you can read up some horror stories from Dr Pot's blog.

Economic crunch hits docs and patients
By FOONG PEK YEE

pekyee@thestar.com.my

KUALA LUMPUR: The economic slowdown is biting hard even in the medical profession, causing keen competition in government clinics, with private practitioners also scrambling to get a share of overtime payments.

Several government clinics are now operating much longer, up to 9.30pm daily, with doctors manning them paid RM80 an hour in overtime payments.

Health Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai, who acknowledged the keen competition going on between government and private doctors for overtime payments, said:

“Many doctors, irrespective of whether they are in the government or private sector, are very keen to earn extra income these days.”

Liow said that to cater to the increasing number of patients seeking treatment at government clinics, the number of clinics providing outpatient treatment would be increased from 16 to 31 soon.

Besides these clinics, he said 59 hospitals were also providing similar treatment after office hours.

Patients pay RM1 each for outpatient treatment at government clinics, which record more than 50 million such visits annually.

With private practitioners charging at least RM15 per visit and with the economic slowdown causing people to tighten their belts, more and more patients are heading to government clinics.

“With more people seeking treatment at government clinics, opening up more such clinics between 5pm and 9.30pm will make it more accessible, especially for those who are working,’’ Liow said in an interview.

The minister said he had received feedback from private doctors on poor business in their clinics due to the economic slowdown.

On allegations that government doctors were being favoured over private practitioners to work overtime in the government clinics, he said:

“The faster approval for government doctors could be due to the fact that their credentials are readily available for checking.”

“As for the private doctors, it may take longer to verify them,’’ he said, adding that all doctors applied for the overtime online.

---

Added on April 21, 2009, 8:24 amAnother reason for Check & Balance?

Medical chits going for as low as RM10 each
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 03:24am
©The Sun (Used by permission)
Kong See Hoh

KUALA LUMPUR (April 20, 2009) : Sick of work? You can buy a medical chit for as low as RM10 if you are in the know.

According to a report in Nanyang Siang Pau today, MC chits can easily be bought from clinics.

In a random survey last month on 18 clinics in Petaling Jaya, Brickfields, Pudu, Kampung Baru, Kepong and Jalan Chow Kit by the daily's reporters who were disguised as students, two were found to be selling MC chits without consultation for RM10 and RM25 respectively.

Another two required the "students" to see the doctors before they were issued the chits.

However, most of clinics do not engage in the sale of MC chits and some stressed that they would not issue the chit on request unless it is deemed necessary.

On March 15, a Nanyang reporter posing as a student approached a clinic in Kepong and asked if she could obtain an MC for a fee. "Yes" came the reply from the counter staff who asked for her MyKad.

The staff was careful, lowered her voice and asked the reporter to follow her to the consultation room where a male doctor was in attendance.

Doc: Where do you live?

Reporter: PJ

Doc: Where do you work?

Reporter: I am still studying

Doc: What sickness do you want me to write down?

Reporter: er ... fever.

Doc: OK. Remember not to come back within two months (for MC chit).

Reporter: OK, thanks.

In another clinic in Kuala Lumpur the next day, the reporter told a nurse at the counter she wanted to buy an MC.

The nurse was initially suspicious but dropped her guard when the reporter said her friend had recommended the particular clinic.

The reporter, again claiming to be a student, obtained the chit in five minutes without seeing the doctor.

Reporter: I want to buy an MC.

Nurse (laughing): Where do you work?

Reporter: I am a student.

Nurse: How do you know this place (has medical chits for sale)?

Reporter: A friend recommended.

Nurse: Why do you need an MC?

Reporter: Personal reasons.

Nurse (taking out some pills): I'll write down fever and give you some Panadol.

Reporter: Can I have vitamins? I don't want painkillers.

Nurse: OK. But (vitamins) in liquid form, more convenient to give the pills.

Reporter: Can I take the (Panadol) pills if I have headache in the future?

Nurse: Yes. Because you are a student, I charge you RM25. But for those who are working, I charge RM28.

Reporter: Wow, so expensive?

Nurse: It is cheap already.

Cases like these are believed to be repeated daily in many other clinics due to the demand for MC chits.

The question of ethics aside, the rampant sale of MC chits will have an impact on companies in terms of performance and medical costs incurred by the errant employees.

Congress of Unions of Employees in the Public and Civil Services (Cuepacs) president Omar Osman wants the government to take a serious view of the sale of medical chits saying the practice not only affects the good name of the medical fraternity but also the performance of individuals and the competitiveness of their companies.

Malaysian Medical Association president Datuk Dr Khoo Kah Lin said the association is conducting internal investigations into incidence of sale of MC chits and will take action against errant doctors once it obtains proof of such irregularities.

The association has indeed received complaints from some employers, he said, adding that it will not ignore the problem.

This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Apr 21 2009, 08:24 AM

Is a job as a pharmacist boring?
Do they face challenges and get satisfaction upon completing their job?
As a pharmacist, do u find that ur life is interesting?
Can u share with me ur experience? Thanks.