Optiplex330:
So in the end, you are running out of points and evidence, and resort to personal attack? I can understand if you attack me alone, but why belittling my HOD and doctors as a whole?
Oh well, whatever.
At least i have given the number of pharmacists in Msia. What figures have you provided? Just bunch of childish statements.
So let's say if the trial is a success, should dispensing right be given to pharmacists in Klang Valley only? How about pharmacists in other parts of the country.

BTw, do you know why medicine course is generally longer than pharmacy? Also are you aware that lecture hours for pharmacy are much less than medicine?

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 18 2008, 06:55 PM

You don't get it do you? I am having fun with you. Great entertainment.

BTW, the figure you gave me for Malaysia is useless because we are talking about KL. As a scientist, you should know what is relevant and what is irrelevant information. Frankly, I am disappointed you do not know that. Well, nothing perfect in this world.

On the trial. Nobody know whether it's going to to be a success or not. But assuming KL trial is a success, I presume the authority will try it out on other bigger town that has SUFFICIENT pharmacies only.

On length of studies. Doctor have more things to learn than pharmacist (but you sounded as though you do not know that and I am shocked ). You could say doctor is the best jack of all trade in health. BUT when it comes to medicine, pharmacist learn more about medicine than doctor and they are therefore the specialist of medicine. These 2 are facts.

Taken together, therefore, doctor is the better general rounder and hence rightly should be the better person to diagnosis and prescribe because he can see the whole body system. But pharmacist role is more specific to medicine and thus is the better person to dispense medicine.

@hypermax

Obviously my friend...if the TRIAL is a success..it wont only be confined to Klang Valley, and it also will not be implemented throughout the whole country at 1 go...

It will have to be implemented at stages...one place at a time... make sure each city is prepared..
That is how Taiwan did it...they started off in TaiChung, and slowly to KaoShiung, Taipei...etc.
And you and I know that implementing it at one go throughout d country is not possible...not all city are like KL, PJ or Butterworth...so, they have to slowly help other cities to prepare for this, while other cities will set as pioneer for others to learn.

Doctors needs 5 years learning, bcoz your job needs it, and deemed sufficient enough for you to go out & practise. ...so the things u learned r specialise on diagnosis, treatment...

Pharmacist needs 4 yrs learning, it is also bcoz our job needs it...in such duration that are deemed sufficient. And the things we learned are specialised in drugs...

I do not see that the difference in years on learning or even lecture hours make doctors more superior than others pharmacist, nurse, engineer, etc). It is after all, we are learnin almost different things!

If you think doctors learn more than anyone else...then be more humble...

I dun c the needs of doctors belittled pharmacists & pharmacists degrading the doctors...get over with it. We will never move on like that...this is sometimes so meaningless...in the end, both side lose out

This post has been edited by kingkong81: Dec 18 2008, 09:08 PM

Who belittle who? The person I belittle are those doctor who think they can make no mistake so need nobody to double check for possible mistake. Now AFAIK, only god (even this is debatable) can make no mistake so I suppose I belittle those doctor who think they are god. To those doctor who think they are also human, I hold them in high regards

Yeah, I know that, you stated so in one of your posts that you are just here for fun. We can also see that from your style of posting. Me too, having fun here. First time seeing people bring in bomoh and mee goreng for discussion . It's a great way to increase post count, dun you think so?
BTW, having fun for you means personal attack? How mature you are.
So are you saying Klang Valley has enough pharmacists? Prove your statement, or at least tell us what you actually deduce that from.
I told you before, the reason i think pharmacists in KV are insufficient based on the fact that there are only 4000+ pharmacists in the whole country, both private and gov. There's no way all of them are in KV. Think boy.
When scientists dun have exact figure, they deduce, and come out with hypothesis.

And again, you didn't read my post properly , i did mentioned many times that docs dun have extensive pharmacology knowledge, but sufficient to ensure patient's safety.
Btw, i did mention, ultimately dispensing right should go to the pharmacists. We are just not ready at the moment (yes, not even for the trial, bite me ).
Do you know that Taiwan has National Health Insurance (Jian Bao in Chinese) before giving dispensing right to the pharmacists? Patients dun have to pay a cent extra for such.
As for belittling, tell that to Mr.Opti.

Oh yeah, then how sure are you that my HOD thinks he's a god? Did i even say i am a god? Also, i did apologize previously when i stated something wrong, unlike you. You are now arguing just to save face my friend.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 18 2008, 10:40 PM

oni sufficient well how can that ensure patient safety....the oni way to ensure your patient safety is good at it not oni juz sufficient..

and btw is this a thread to talk about will pharmacist gain dispensing right in Malaysia? or who deserve the dispensing right? but nvm bcos i enjoy it

This post has been edited by vanPersieXX: Dec 18 2008, 10:41 PM

Ever heard of uneven distribution pattern? Every scientist worth his salt would know that. Do you?

So how uneven?
Let's say if 30% of pharmacists are in KV (very unlikely), so there are roughly 1200 plus. Then half of them in gov, so in private only 600 plus left. You think is sufficient??

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Added on December 18, 2008, 10:47 pmYou know the meaning of sufficient?? Look up dictionary. Noobs nowadays.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 18 2008, 10:48 PM

Taken a walk around KL lately?

Yeah, what about that?
BTW, i hope you know KV is not only KL.

erm....i dun think UK have enough pharmacists and a lot of them are not locals but why the dispensing right belongs to the pharmacists....well shortage of pharmacists ain't a good reason why dispensing right should belong to the doctors

but wat if our country hav sufficient pharmacists, will the docs giv bac the right to the pharmacists?I guess no.

hmmm..... may we know both optiplex and hypermax studying what and where?

just for our (the entertained post readers') info.

OK. Let's admit it. You don't know how many pharmacies there are per 1000 people in KV or KL and neither do I. It's your guesses and mine. But the person who has that figure is the Health Ministry. So who are people here gonna believe, your figure? my figure or the MH?

If HM think there are sufficient pharmacies in KV, they will do a trial. If they don't think there are sufficient, they will not do a trial. End of this "how many pharmacies in KV" guessing game.

enough for a purpose...so? juz enough oni??is that the way u ensure the safety of patients

At least in UK, there are much more pharmacists than in Msia. So what if they are not locals? They are working there no?
Read the previous posts if you wanna debate.
There's extreme shortage in Msia.
Whether or not docs will give it back when the number is sufficient, i dunnoe. But i for one agree to give them the dispensing right when the time comes.

May be UK has sufficient or may be they don't. I don't have the figure. But assuming they do not have enough pharmacies, then what you are saying reflects: UK people has 1st world mentality and we have 3rd world's mentality.

Well, Dr. Ismail Merican (i hope you know who he is) said at the moment there's not enough pharmacists in KV, therefore the trial is postponed, not scrapped like what you have mentioned.
I belief his statement is valid.

So in the same way, we must have more than sufficient number of pharmacists before we give them the dispensing right. Dun you think so?
Btw, you know the meaning of sufficient?

We are also extremely short of doctor when we give doctor diagnosis right. Why?

Brother, read the posts properly before posting larr. We discuss it many times de.
UK's health system is entirely different from ours. It's not apple to apple comparison.

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Added on December 18, 2008, 11:10 pmBecause there's no one else who can diagnose other than doctors? I thought we have gone through that many times. Stop going around in circle.
You as a pharmacy student, do you know how to diagnose CCF or pneumonia?
Diagnostic criteria for asthma and COPD?

Doctors know pharmacology, but pharmacists dun know Internal Medicine. No one else knows besides doctors.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 18 2008, 11:14 PM

Your previous post:
Director-General of Health Tan Sri Dr Ismail Merican said the ministry was not able to implement this system earlier due to logistics problems, especially the shortage of pharmacists and pharmacies in the country.

I am truly shocked. So tell me, is KV the entire country? I am so shocked our Malaysian doctor can make such a mistake or was it deliberate attempt at misinformation? The more reason we need pharmacist to check what they prescribe.