Anyone from desa park city? How was it? Price i heard is very expensive.

i;m not from desa park city (DPC) but I have seen the houses there. It is a gated community that is well planned with nice house designs.

The prices are very much higher within the wall (in the DPC gated community) vs those in the surrounding areas outside the wall. ( bandar manjalara, seri bintang)... the wall makes a big difference.

super expensive for me...

The exterior design are nice, but the interior doesn't look as spacious to me. U should go and check out.
It may be costy, but it is a community that u move in, not just a house, the grocery, restaurant, sports, pools, are just as convenience.

There is this luxury condo coming up, cost RM900K to a millions of Ringgit.

Hi..
I used to handle desa park city project...Well,if u ask me,i would stay its costly..Zenia is going for RM1mil now,my cust juz bought 1 unit there.

Theres also bungalows cuming up worth frm 1mil to 3mil if im not mistaken...

The enviroment is superb...

Veen
Mortgage executive

An associate of mine also just bought a property at DPC - I believe he paid about RM800k+ for the property *gulp*

Personally, I find it a little too pricey but well, it's always willing buyer willing seller

This post has been edited by tinkerbel: Dec 14 2008, 11:57 PM

Everywhere access need to pay toll right ?

Not only are the house prices in DPC high, I hear the monthly maintenance fees are also high.

DPC is the best place to live in KL. Undisputable.

@yeehs18,
Are U living @ DPC?! *grins* Am sure there are other places which are as nice to live too

@jchong,
Long time no hear from U !! Forgot me oredi ah?!

@ronaldoo,
Tolls are uhm.. well, depending on where u live and where U travel often too

i have a friend staying there as well. the nadia condominium (the ones that are already built). i think be bought a 1200 square feet unit for around 500k. cheapest property there

@johnsonm,
I cannot understand Y people will spend so much $ to buy into something that size, esp in that area... but well one man's meat is anothers' poison.

500k+ can buy a unit in mont kiara, can the facility in Desa park compare with mont kiara??

I feel Mont Kiara has the better location, but in terms of facilities perhaps Desa Park is superior - you have the mini shopping center plus the landscaping/park and upcoming clubhouse.

And well both are high density areas *grins* I think I'm probably more suited for the Kampung living

/me joins jchong @ Ipoh

Desa Park isn't as much of a 'condo land' as Mont Kiara. A condo in Desa Park would still have quite unobstructed views.

Ipoh is a different kettle of fish, you sure you wouldn't miss the buzz of KL? I think I would.

@jchong,
Er.. with me around U, U'll have all the buzz U need whether ur in KL, Ipoh or Taiping!

personal thought ... if i have the budget ... i will go for that area too ... LOL !!! ... my eldest bro bought a unit there ... 780K and now should be worth more than that after 9 months he bought.

I like the environment there ... look quite secured though ... 2 layer of Security ... 1 main gate + another security check point before entering your house area ... Jusco and maybank and etc is already there ... not bad !!

@jootat,
The fact that Jusco's there only tells us how populated the area is going to be - image all the traffic!

oK Ok.. I'm just one of the few who couldn't afford a property at DPC hence all the negativity

That's the property paradox isn't it? Popular = populated = congested.

actually i too would love to own a unit there. i would choose dpc over mont kiara anytime. the concept is different. many small gated communities within 1 big gated community.

Who said so? You could've.

I don think is a nice location. Access plus the jam.

A jam is an "unavoidable" if you are choosing a nice location.. Well, i personally think so.
Lets take Mont Kiara as an example.. when the community increasing overtime, Mont Kiara will eventually become a traffic jam area.
In addition, DPC is located so near to pj and huge shopping center like 1u. Difinitely a nice place to invest!

Mont Kiara today has about 5x the population VS DPC, but conggestion for DPC today worst than MK.

And I tot' MK is nearer to 1U compared to DPC, no?

No, DPC is closer to 1U than Mont Kiara.

@jchong,
Popular does NOT need to be populated nor congested. Bukit Tunku is a nice place but it isn't that populated nor congested. Ah well.. DPC semi-dees were about RM400k+ when I first stumbled upon it but I couldn't afford it then [if I couldn't afford it then, what makes U think I can afford it now?! ]

This post has been edited by tinkerbel: Dec 23 2008, 06:02 PM

PDC or Mont kiara ? why Not tropicana ?

Is DPC overpiced?

Well, to me, the real value of DPC will be tested in 2009. Mostly during challenging time, property real value will emerge.

Location
Located near a rock hillslope of Kepong, DPC was considered one of the prime location to the area. The DSC have two access road in/out of the community. One access was at the roundabout near the LDP highway, the other was at the opposite side joining Taman Sri Bintang. It has high end neighbourhood like Villa Manja and Sunway SPK. Both housing area had reach more than million since launch. The other side of neighbourhood was a 6 block octogan apartment and coming up few block of commercial/apartment concept near the round about entrance of DPC. So, briefly, the location was mixture of high end gated community with medium apartment across the street.

Facilities
The concept of DPC was very much a gated community with facilities. Facilities like the school, MAx-Valu, banks and shop in the DSC made it a little township itself in the area. Even across the street metro prima shop lot you will find lot of restaurant and neccesities.
One of the attraction of DSC was the perimeter wall on each housing located inside DPC, making it even more secure.

Occupancy rate
The actual occupancy rate was unknown. Judging from rough eyesight, the occupancy rate may be around 40%. Therefore, if the assumption above was correct, most of the buyer will be investors or buying for future stay.

Price
The price of the DPC had appreciated high since the launch of the property. For eg. the Nadia condominium was launch at RM290K in 03/04. and now was half a million. So the property appreciation was almost close to 100%.

Brief
To my opinion one of the setback of DPC was the absent of Golf Club/Club house in the area. Therefore, compare apple to apple on the other similiar price range property like Valencia or Sierramas nearby, DPC may be disadvantage on this.

Rating
I will rate this place with double thumb ups and to be honest I wish I could live there. However, it is still a game of PRICE.....was it worth the price?

If you want more informations and photos.. check out this website :

http://www.desaparkcity.com/

Hi Kelvin 667,

I read your analysis with interest. However, I don't quite get your conclusion. Do you think the price of DPC has shot ahead of its fundamentals? e.g. a Zenia 22 x 60 (2 storey unit) is approx 850 to 900k now.

All - please give comments and discuss too.

cheers.

Dear Phoeni,

It not much of analysis, just some personal opinion.
Regards to the discussion above, personally I think 900k is slightly higher than market expectation at the moment.
Let us compare the same size double story link house in Kepong, is about RM450k where you get a measurement of 22 x 75. So the ratio of DPC was almost double than its near neighbours. So, can we assume that we are paying RM450K for the concept of DPC.

Substitute
For almost a million bucks, investor probably could look at the Semi-D at Sierra Mas/Valencia at radius of 5km. A standard unit of Valencia was launch at around RM1 million, now with appreciation, it would fetch around RM1.4 million. Would anyone fork out extra 500k to get the Semi-D instead of link house? Moreover, Valencia was less density and the Concept was more luxuries than DPC, with three tier security, GOlf Club, much area of greenery landscaping.
Or for around RM900k, one can even eye on the new OSK properties launch Semi D at Damansara Damai, also with perimeter fencing, community guarded and artificial pond view. The link house there was sold for around RM450k.

Progress of DPC
We have to look at the current new coming project of DPC, which is also a factor determine the price. With development continue by DPC, this increase the supply and will hammered down the sub-sale price of Zenia. The more unit and more launch at DPC in short time, it will slower the appreciation price.
However, on rough eye observation, the development of new launch seem to be slower.

Facility
There was talk on the Club house and facility on DPC. If this was materialise, then the property will fetch a higher price, otherwise in time of pipeline, the property price will remain overpriced.

Personally, I believe the fair price for DPC for Zenia to be around RM700K-RM750K.
If one really need the actual value, may be can try on authorise valuer like Henry Butcher...

Please take the above as personal view only. Actual may differed.

i believe some with good location unit will fetch at very high price compare to normal location which remain at 700k. other than that you need to paid the maintanance for 450-600 /m

actually they should build atleast a driving range at dpc,

This post has been edited by cannondale>: Jan 6 2009, 01:25 AM

Kelvin,

Interesting observation of DPC! But do u think the property there will be able to withstand the economy slowdown this year?? n how low could the depreciation be, if any? In hindsight, should ve bought a unit there 2 years bk!

Would like to know your view on pro n cons between DPC & Mutiara Dmnsara? i see a lot of similarities here. Say 5 or 7 years fr now, which 1 u think will giv higher cap appreciation??

Dear Shaguar,

Sorry for late reply, rushing for project implementation now.
Anyway to answer most of your question, I post one of my previous post below : should we buy house now?

Mutiara Damansara..interesting place for ppl who mixed up with Damansara Perdana, which the most distinct different between two was Mutiara Daman is freehold the Daman Perdana is leasehold. I do not have the opportunity to post the comparison of DPC and MD now. may be later..sorry.

Here my previous post (post on November 08) :-

It is a good time to buy property now?

General View
It is a general question that can't be answer as no one know what situation you are in? eg. whether will you be able to withstand the storm ahead? Generally speaking, all of us had read about the recession coming ahead and some even predict similarity of the "great depression". For Malaysia, the question of how vulnerable are we to be affected by global economy arise. However,it is expected that the manufacturing and export line will be hit hard during the 1st qtr of 2009. There will be high risk of major layoffs for manufacturer/exporter to cut overhead due to low demand. Economy of US is expected to recover on the 4th qtr 09 which made us to recover on late qtr of 2010 as the chain reaction will reach us later.

Housing
Back to the question on the house, whether the property price will drop drastically will depend not only of economy but also on location. Eg. will property price drop drastically at mature location and scarce property in bandar utama? To me, the answer is quite obvious, NO, as the majority resident at BU were stable and mature worker(over 40+) in the field. Most of them would have probably enough resource to whether this storm providing they are not high gear learning from their previous lesson 1997. However, places like Mont Kiara may face price drop due to supply to this market and no. of expatriate in Malaysia. Expected housing with majority investor and not home occupation may be affected.

Long Term
For long term, property price will continue to rise and shine. Just Compare the price of property 1997 and now? what are the increase %?
However, due to the slow growth next year, some good property location price will not drop ,however a low appreciation / stagnant.

Banking
During recession, in theory, the interest rates/OPR will be drop to slow the recession and encourage consumer spending. As the interest rate get lower, deposit in banks may seem unattractive. Some say that OPR will drop to 2.75? who knows? However, during recession, the bank may tighten their credit control to reduce NPL. So generally if your supporting document is not strong, it will be difficult to secure a loan unless that you lower the margin of financing.

Opportunity Cost
Would it be better to keep the Cash for better opportunity during recession? Blue chip stocks? Hammered down unit trust/ funds. These form of opportunity may be in term offers more liquidity investment and probably the return may be more rewarding providing that the right one was chosen. However, the risk is much greater than obtaining a property.

Brief
In short, it is always easier to sell a property than buy a property. People that have a property will understand this.
To me, Whether to buy a property now will very much depend on your cash flow, your income stability and your credit portfolio during 2009/2010.

The reply/comment above are very much own personal opinion. Please take it only as reference.

if any1 of u go to dpc, u can go in their sales office to check their projects plan for the whole area, there are proposed international school, private hospital and blockS of condominium...

at this moment, it may looks impressive with well planned communities within a gated community, however, personnaly, i think if ever the developer successfully launced and developed the whole area, it will somehow congested, congested..and congested...

imagine few blocks of condominium within dpc and plenty more within its vincity, just accrossed dpc, there are 2 big blocks apartment coming up, a mixed developement with shops...and one can imagine how hectic the traffic and crowd will be in 3-5 years time, with the exisiting 7 blocks condo down the road, another 2 blocks -new menjalara 18 at the other corner...

personally, I think I'd rather focus on Ara Damansara vs. DPC, in terms of affordability, i mean.

the township there is also fairly well planned out, with guarded access points etc....

house with the same dimension in AD is going for approx 550K vs. a Zenia unit in DPC of approx 900K.

pls feel free to provide some other insights.

This post has been edited by Phoeni_142: Jan 18 2009, 08:33 PM

i stayed in bandar sri damansara when i first came to malaysia some seven years ago. my house was not right next to the highway and yet, we had a lot of dust from it.

desa is a pretty place to live, and if you can afford to move in, you can probably afford to leave the a/c on all the time.

---

Added on January 18, 2009, 4:26 pmagree! bought an ara house phase 2 in 2003. huge parks and lakes. it's the last freehold in the pj golden triangle. well worth the investment!

This post has been edited by Chris25: Jan 18 2009, 04:26 PM

For the posters with comments like " Its so expensive, not worth", "MT Kiara is same price so much better" etc have you guys actaully been to DPC? Take your gf or family, go around 6pm, take a walk by the lake, play kites with your nephew, bring bikes if u have and cycle around.....at 7pm go have dinner at raikuzen or the steam boat place @ waterfront overlooking the lake, i guarantee you will change your mind about DPC.

DPC is not a place that you can look at pics and brochures...you must go there...feel the atmoshpere, walk around the area, notice how every one walks or cycles to eat? hardly any of the residents drive..many walk and most cycle

im not a dpc agent etc, just someone who discovered it accidentally 2 months ago cos was invited to have dinner ther...i fell in love with the place...now trying to get a comercial lot there becasue i see big potential..

last weekend i went with a agent to survey all the development...i think for the price..yes..if u compare with BU/PJ, its smaller but in return, you get a very safe area, where your kids can run barefeet with the other children...

No backalleys, developments like zenia/nadia/adora eetc..all have GARDEN instead of back alleys.

there will be NO more landed built at DPS, the rest will all be condos, so ppl who buy now is safe in the knowledge taht they will be holding a appreciating aset

Hi,

Yes, I have been to DPC. Many times in fact.

Do u own units in BU, DU, DJ, TTDI or Kota Damansara? If you don't, not for you to pass judgement so quickly on other "posters". I am not one of those "angry people" that just want to critize others because I do not have a unit in DPC. It doesn't make my wealth go up if I feel "jealous"....so what the heck for?

My personal view - I am an investor. I do not get emotional on people playing kites, running in fields etc. Having said that, I do see your point. My wife fell in love with DPC - she certainly got emotional! haha

Now - I like that place very much too. Screw the skeptics that talk about the toll, high maintenance fees etc. etc. For those that critize - chances are they don't have any properties to show for it anyway.

JWRX - I AM NOT CRITIZING you. I see your point and I saw how my wife fell in love with the place. It's like "driving into another world", and I think it's a great place to live.

However - from an INVESTMENT point of view - I think the price has shot ahead of its fundamentals. Sure - it has nice landscaping and guarded security - but my feel is that the price will flatten out soon. Sure, I could be wrong - but I feel that other areas like Ara Damansara provide much more potential in terms of investment return. Have you been there? Did u know that even old areas in DJ have much bigger land areas - are more affordable, yet also come with guarded security? Why not we compare research? Perhaps we can benefit from info trading?

Best of luck to you.

This post has been edited by Phoeni_142: Jan 18 2009, 08:46 PM

u r letting your brain or your heart do the talking here?

Pheoni,

actually i wasnt refering to your post, i was refering to ppl who never even been b4.

ok some background on my own research, I own a endlot in Damansara Kim, bought end 2007, places i went to research and see house include DJ, Ara Damansara, TTDI, BU, SS3, SS1, SS2

Settled on DK cos to me it had the best combo of easy access, low entry costs compared to DU/DJ/TTDI and quieter with beter parking compared to BU (my unit is facing park)

yup, i fully would appreciate a frank non emotional discussions on DPC

here are pros of DPC compared to Ara based on my own thinking, feel free to debate/rebut

- No more landed development (ie in future when DPC condo residents want to upgrade and stay in same area, they will look at existing landed property in DPC)

- Expat community is growing, the expats love developments like Adorra in DPC, and from what i see the expat communit is starting to grow, koreans, brits, french...when the international school is up, should be even better...ARA is unlikely to attract the expat crowd. As can be seen from mt kiara, expats drive up prices

- already developed, Ara is still in its infancy, yes..if u buy in now and it booms 3 years down the road, the potential for gians is very high...IF it booms, DPC is already proven concept, entry price is relatively high...BUT rental yields are attractive due to growing expat comunity

Hi,

I think Damansara Kim is quite a good buy. Have always been a fan of the D'sara suburbs. Just a few questions.

1. Your house dimensions
2. Price
3. Investment / Own Stay

Would suggest u look around DJ - on the KDU side - there may be some bargains there - of course don't buy to near to the cemetary or college. Got one at the Atria side for 440K about a year back. Build up is approx 23 by 93.

Now, with rgds to our discussion on DPC.

1. Agree with you on the expat com build up in DPC. However, I am quite risk averse when it comes to the expat community. There are reasons why I've stayed away from Mt Kiara or Ampang or any expat enclave. It seems to be the flavour of the month. By the way, anecdotal evidence suggests that the Korean community is already migrating away from Mt Kiara. Look at the Star classifieds. At least 4 full length columns "for sale / rent" every day for MK units. Units in I-Zen experiencing a tough time being rented out. Could be wrong, but it's only a matter of time before MK Aman, Bayu and Sophia start coming down more rapidly.

2. As such, I am quite reserved about the expat build up in DPC. Whilst it may be unlikely today, - DPC could be as speculative as MK in the future.

3. I believe in traditional suburbs where upper middle class families reside - Stable, boring but dependable. That's why I'm zooming in on Ara D'sara (AD)....u could be right - DPC could be a consistent gold mine - just that I see more upside in AD.

4. I must confess i'm not too well versed in the maths in DPC. When u say the rental yields are good....please elaborate. U mean for Zenia, Adorra, Commercial lots??? I'm curious to see how the loan can be structured to get a positive cash flow, given the potential rental. PS - cash flow is the most important metric to me - not yield. Just my own personal view - too much emphasis given on yield sometimes, and it's over-rated. So what if the unit yields 13%? That metric only holds water if u buy 100% cash. As such, please do share your cash flow dynamics, if u don't mind.

See yeah!

1. 22x75, with rear kitchen extension
2. 419k
3. own stay

currently, prices for intermediate in DK has risen to 460-480, with endlots like mine last seen transacted at 500k

lowest i ever seen personally in DK, is fren who bought former bangla house for 380k, about 2 months b4 i got mine

yup, u get much bigger land area for DJ, but I personally dun like the DJ area, and i dun like Atria at all...so i prefer to be next to TTDI

agreed about rental yeilds, positive cash flow is more important then % yield. with 20-25% down, 30 year tenure, you can get positive cashflow from Nadia, not much, in the range of 200-500, but still positive.

I believe you can get higher from adorra. but zenia still very new, too many lots available for rental..so hasnt stabilised yet

MK - never beleived in MK, yes, ppl made hudnreds of thousands, my own cousion made over 300k in under 1 year when he sold his apartment to move to US, but i believe the end of the MK bubble is near, supply is definately more then demand and getting worse



This post has been edited by jwrx: Jan 19 2009, 11:01 PM

jwrx,

At 90% financing, will the Nadia condo still yields u positive cashflow? Else u could get better COCR elsewhere, no?

Actually went to see DPC about a year ago, liked/loved the place and the concept, even checked Nadia, but I walked away due to :

1. Rental yields is low(I use this and COCR as a basic indicator to see if an investment is a viable one, as "positive cashflow" is rather easily tweaked), plus tenant liquidity was an issue back then. No sure how much things have changed in 1 year, perhaps u could enlighthen us.

2. The whole DPC was relatively empty....... and I came away thinking ppl who bought into DPC are mainly speculators. And developments where the huge majority of the purchasers are speculators dont often ends well, unless u have a big pile of reserves to hold the property for a few years. Think this Nadia subsale upon VP was selling at developers price, and it took more than 1 year before price levels actually took off to a respectable levels.


Anyway, good luck in your hunt

---

Added on January 20, 2009, 1:28 amMate,

Cash-flow numbers could be "tweaked" as well . Personally would use COCR as the best indicator evaluate any investment opportunity.



This post has been edited by Pai: Jan 20 2009, 01:28 AM

sry, COCR?

i would say zenia is about 30% accoupied, but i see alot of reno and alot of ppl moving in, adora/southlake/nadia etc all look fully occupied, or at least above 80%. yup alot of specualtors bought the initial units, my agent said majority of her clients bought 4-5 units and ABOVE but now, looks like the real residents/renters have moved in to most of the older phases, only Zenia still looks empty

You should take a look at it now. It'll answer the bold part.

As for ur previous post on the traffic jam, I seriously doubt there is traffic congestion there except in Jln Kuching towards Kl during peak hour. Other than that the LDP seems fine even during peak hour. Anyway, since you are not living there, how would you know there isn't other accesses?
I ain't speculators or investors but I live near DPC for a long time, funny how i never experience those traffic congestion that u mentioned.

As i mentioned earlier, there are 2 access road in DPC, one in Taman Sri Bintang and the other main entrance at the round about beside metro Prima.

Relatively, congestion will always be the case for developed area during peak hours. However, i believe that there should not be any much congestion in kepong area as there are few access raod we can choose:-

1] Exit to LDP towards PJ/KL/Batu Caves
2] Exit to Jinjang
3] Exit to Segambut towards Mont Kiara/Jln Kuching/Komplex Kerajaan

Relatively the traffic in/out Kepong area will be fine during normal hours.

However, the main concern was the Access road into DPC at the roundabout, judging from a heavy development in the area near the round about, metro Prima, Manja Villa, Park 19, Sunway, and some new Condo at Menjalara, more and more vehicle will access to LDP using this aroundabout. For DPC, having an access road in front of the round about may face some difficulties once the area mature. The goodside, they have access road at Taman Sri Bintang.

So expect the roundabout to be congested in the future and access through Taman Sri Bintang.

I would opt for a price drop in DPC in this long battle recession - 20%. Would ppl be affected? High Medium Income group?

Developer may offer 5/95 or 10/90 package, therefore slow inflation for sub-sale in the area.

Anybody heard whether DPC will offer this package in mean time?

Please take this as reference only.

Mate,

1. Who says I "tweak" my cash flow? Sendiri Shiok - cheat myself? For what?

2. Don't know what u are getting at - Maybe I was speaking too loosely then - COCR is the most important metric for me anyway - i just summarized it as CF (If u read my previous posts on other topics - I've always advocated COCR. By the way - +ve CF is a variable which u use in your COCR computation anyway. I only put a maximum 10% down. - So the COCR will tend to take care of itself.

---

Added on January 20, 2009, 1:15 pmSorry - I'm rushing for meetings - so no time to answer on DPC, but i'll tackle our debate on DK and DJ first.

There's no right and wrong. It's all about personal preference.

1. DK is old - my own perception is that I find the place a bit run down....yes, good for u that the price has appreciated....like i said.....whatever works for the investor, correct?
2. I like Atria - why? It's dead and quiet - never could understand why a place is considered "sexy" because a bustling One Utama is next door.
3. For the record, my unit is facing the big field at DJ, not Atria. Unit next door has just transacted at 680K. Up 200K in 2 years - who says old areas don't have potential, eh
4. DJ is now fully guarded with checkpoints and patrols - as opposed to DK.

will respond later on DPC.

See yeah!



This post has been edited by Phoeni_142: Jan 20 2009, 01:15 PM

Mate,

1. I never said u did it, im just sharing what I know on cashflow as not many ppl realised that one can always tweak and rationalise cashflow even on lousy investments

2. We r on the same page on COCR. While COCR is the best measure to calculate ROI, again i'd like to highlight that one can always tweak the variables that form COCR. Someone I knew even able to get above 50℅ COCR p/a, and I doubt that this is replicable to everyone who bought the same development.

---

Added on January 20, 2009, 3:43 pmI dont live nearby so Im not sure what is the normal day's traffic's condition. I went to DPC from 1U on a weekend a year ago, and the traffic wasnt very smooth. Maybe it was an exception, I dunno.

And FYI, im saying that its more congested VS MK, despite the fact that MK has much more population. Perhaps this is due to MK's better accesibility. Hope this clarifies

This post has been edited by Pai: Jan 20 2009, 03:43 PM

Ok,

assuming u get a Nadia for 900K. 25% downpayment is approx 225K.

Using your +ve cash flow per month assumptions of let's say RM350 (Avg of 200 and 500) - this implies a +ve cash flow of RM4,200 per annum

In a very simplistic way, the COCR - is only 1.9% (4,200/225,000) - and i don't think this even includes in maintenance yet!

Either way - even if this includes maintenance fees - a 1.9% COCR is a very very very very poor utilization of your cash.

Are u sure u are quoting me the right variables here? PS - if u really want to be prudent - your COCR must at least be double that of the FD Rate. I aim for COCR of at least 25%. I'm sure Pai aims even higher.

I just checked out South Lake, cost about RM 2k for basic unit rental. semi-furnished costs more.

Levenue is anywhere from RM 4k to RM 7k range.

Too be honest i havnt done that much homework on the rental yields available in dpc yet, but yes your analysis is corect, ie very low cocr

But thats not taking into account 2 facts. 1) COCR isnt our main criteria, we only want positive cash flow for a few years b4 we move in and sell/rent our DK property

2) question of availability, 1-2 years down the road, might come the point where 900k wont be able to get you nadia

hehe keep it comign though...learnt alot in just 2 pages of posts

This post has been edited by jwrx: Jan 21 2009, 09:55 AM

jwrx,

1. The only reason why you r getting positive cashflow is due to the large d/p (aka tweaking cashflow). At 90% financing its a negative cashflow deal. Explains the super low COCR.

2. If the economy tanks, you still think there's ppl who would pay 1mil for a gated DS ini Kepong? If DS in Kepong drops to 300k levels, this Nadia could potentially be worth only 600k, assuming ppl

Well, I stand by my thoughts that DPC is a speculative investment, with strong support by the developer. Real value will prevail once there are no more new projects in DPC, and we'll see if current "market" value holds. You r buying a DSL today for a close to 1mil, with the anticipation that its price will continue to rise over the medium term. Its a very,very risky thing to do IMO, with your odds is just slightly better than playing a high stake poker game.

My 2 cents

---

Added on January 21, 2009, 10:40 amMy exact thoughts, altho I would be contented if I could get anything above 15% p/a. Anything above that is a big fat bonus.

This post has been edited by Pai: Jan 21 2009, 10:40 AM

I think Pai summarized the issues quite well (Please see his post above) - So not much for me to say, really.

jwrx,

I'm just going to offer my personal philosophy to you. In the end, it's still your decision.

DPC could very well go up in price all the way to orbit. In that sense, people like me would lose out. But I agree with Pai's view that the price would flatten out, and it shows elements of speculative play.

Personally, I only focus on COCR. That is of paramount importance to me. I have always said this quote - and i'll say it again. "Appreciation in your properties is an ancillary benefit of ownership".

In other words - any appreciation in my investments is just a bonus. I never buy for potential appreciation. Any eventual appreciation is just a bonus.

The most important is COCR with 10% down - for me anyway.

Good luck to you.

Mark of a true investor.

pheni/pai,

yup, get your points loud and clear, just curious, which properties currently would give cocr of more then 10% with only 10% down?

Due to ego - I made many mistakes when I first started out - I bought a couple of properties in BU and TTDI. And tried as I might - I was bleeding in terms of cash flow profusely - nearly died due to my huge ego. I admit that. The only reason I could sustain was due to good commissions and bonuses I got from my job back then.

I got lucky - prices of my units appreciated phenomenally. I sold one after holding on for nearly 2 years - and built up the equity in my remaining property. Even today - they are only breaking even from a cash flow perspective.

Okay - enough of the sob stories. My wife is the "specialist" in finding undervalued properties. I trust her judgement highly. I then specialise in structuring the deal and then managing the properties.

Our personal tenets:

1. We only buy massively undervalued landed properties - even then I know my COCR will not be very attractive - perhaps just the FD rate. Classic example - my buy in DJ about 1.5 years back.

2. Now, we only buy nothing but undervalued condo's / apartments - again, no right and wrong - i know that potential for appreciation is not as attractive as landed - but the COCR return is superb to the both of us. Plus we can repeat this strategy every 4 to 5 months.

3. I'll give u 2 examples of deals closed in the last 8 months. By the way, we try not to limit ourselves to "area-specific" strategies. It depends on where u find the deals, and whether it gives a super COCR.

(a) Sri Putramas condo, Jalan Kuching - 1,100 sq feet - transacted at 140K (Market value = 210k). Loan taken 120K. Rental = 1,100 (semi-furnished) Mortgage = 600, Gross COC return = 30%, Net return after maintenance = 17%.

(b) Faber Ria Condo, Taman Desa - 500 sq feet, studio. transacted at 120K (Market value = 145k) Loan taken = 108K. Rental = 1,200 (full-furnished) Mortgage = 550, Gross COC return = 65%, Net return after maintenance = 53%.

All those deals above added to our "income" - the extra few hundred per deal adds up when your portfolio grows. It has been great to us both - but still always willing to improve.

Pai & jwrx or anyone - pls share your stories? My wife is always bugging me to read your posts....much to my delight.

This post has been edited by Phoeni_142: Jan 21 2009, 02:15 PM

offer letter for a lot in waterfront is ready, DPC just called...so after the discussions here...i might not be getting a Nadia..but i would be at least working there for the time being

come visit my shop when its ready

Sorry - working there? U mean u have a shoplot there or working there? What business u operating, mate?

www.mbe.com.my

Thanks for sharing your examples. Those are indeed good investments you've made. Your examples also bring to mind what someone once told me that you can get very good return from 'cheap' properties.

From this forum I've also learned to evaluate my investments using COCR. Some questions relating to your examples above: (i) should the cost of furnishing be included in the COCR calculation?, (ii) similarly what about other one time costs incurred like lawyer's fees for loan & SPA plus stamping duty?

Anyway, one example from me: 20'x75' shophouse in Ipoh (new). Price 332K, loan taken 90%. Rental = 2,900 Mortgage = 2,000. Gross COC return = 32%.

This post has been edited by jchong: Jan 22 2009, 04:54 PM

when opening? i go there DPC twice last week, didn't see any yet.

might need such service.

targeting mid march open, next to dhobi, sry for off topic

A sample of calculation involving COCR :





Attached thumbnail(s)

Mr. Pai - thanks for the teh tarik session! Next time on me, ok? It was good to learn a few tricks from you....

I think your spreadsheet is comprehensive. I use a similar template, but with just some slight differences in format.

Jchong - thanks for sharing too.

Just to recap on the formula

1. COCR = Annual CF / DP of your property + One off Expenses.
2. Annual CF = Net Operating Income - Debt payments.
3. Net Operating Income = Gross Rental - Operating Expenses.

I normally go for ZEC packages and buy fully furnished.

However, if using strictly COC perspective - IMO, it is a must for your capex and one-off's like S&P Costs to be included together with your DP as acquisition costs.

Again - if we are running this like a typical P&L - we then have the luxury to depreciate the capex over a period of say 4 years, to "smoothen" out the impact.... But no point in kidding ourselves. Has to be taken as part and parcel of your DP.

By the way, how's the Ipoh market in general? Any signs of stress?

This post has been edited by Phoeni_142: Jan 24 2009, 03:26 AM

Thanks! Glad to know the spreadsheet I'm constructing is on track.

---

Added on January 24, 2009, 8:12 amYup, fully agree that we should have as low outgoings as possible to maximize COCR. So, zero cost packages are your friend Buying fully furnished is also good. One thing about shophouses is that the tenant doesn't care about furnishing (since they will have their own plans) so that's one less item to worry about.

Ipoh market is slower. Fewer people eating out. Slower property sales. Car sales down. Not that people don't have the money, but I think they are more cautious in spending. Given the right deal or bargain, you'll see the money coming out.

This post has been edited by jchong: Jan 24 2009, 08:12 AM

No prob, learnt few new things as well.

Btw, can show a copy of your investment analysis sheet? Wanna see the diff between our tempates

har? got TT session wan ah??

I missed it cos I haven't been following this forum for sometime..

although most of the time i follow this thread invisible style, just reading and adding knowledge, hehe

can i join for TT session as well?

sorry - file messed up, and will upload soon

This post has been edited by Phoeni_142: Jan 25 2009, 09:06 PM

Can I have a copy of the Investment Spread Sheet please?

In return I upload a pic taken from DSP condo

i didnt know u guys have TT session for property discussion...

when's the next one? may i join?

Regards,

Merce Chua
Mortgage Sales Executive
OCBC Bank (M) Bhd
019 - 913 1127
ChuaCChie@OCBC.com
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Dpc appreciation rate is phenomenal. I think it's overated and I am not sure how the developer would market their new launch. Start at 800k? 1.2mil? Are we Malaysian that rich? How many of us can afford a house close to a mil house? It's certainly good for investors but what about ppl who are looking for own stay? At the price close to a mil, how many of us could afford it? When it gets too expensive, are there still room for cap appreciation? If I am one who hav transacted 2 years ago, I would sell it now for sure. Would I buy it now? Very unlikely. Would you?

I heard that even bank having problem in evaluating the market price in DPC when buyers want to buy 2nd hand units. Anyone manage to get a 2nd hand unit in DPC?

if its too good to be true, then it usually is.

We saw what happened in KLCC and MK

This post has been edited by Pai: Jan 27 2009, 12:42 PM

In general, banks are already squeezing valuations in so called "mature" areas like TTDI and Damansara.

Not suprised if DPC may be affected by this as well.

my relatives are staying there. 1 word.. superb.

well if you buy that house for retiring purpose where you wana enjoy your life with your husband or wife then it is recomended. As for investment I dont think it is a wise choice because no one gonna rent at that place and with the expensive price.

@chicaman,
There will always be people in the market for 'expensive' products. My neighbour recently rented her home for RM18k p/month unfurnished [well, her tenants received a RM2k discount because she'd wanted to leave some of the big bulky furnitures in the house]

Good to know there is still a market for renting big bungalows. Rented to expat or local?

@jchong,
Er... for the record, it's not a big bungalow.. it's merely modest. Expat lah... I don't know many locals who'll actually pay so much rental

Yeah, I suspected it was an expat.

When you say "modest" what's the sq ft built up?

@jchong,
I believe it's about 5k+, not exceeding 6k.

Over price.....

@Asurada,
As in the case of most things

Hey, i live in desa park city, Zenia.

Yes, but you're playing a dangerous game of russion roulette in terms of that assumption in relation to DPC.

1. Are u saying that DPC will be a playground for people that are willing to spend on "expensive" products?

2. Are u insinuating that rents in DPC will potentially be 18K per month>? Whilst u may not mean it literally - perhaps u are implying as such by your statemet

3. Pls have a look at the rentals that your Adora and Zenia are commanding right now. I stand corrected if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's a chance in hell that the rentals can cover the installments.

@Phoeni_142,
I am not referring to the DPC development but whilst Adora & Zenia may not command RM10k+ rental, I believe there are few development in the overall DPC development that can (the bungalow plots on the hill), etc.

1. I don't think DPC will be a playground for people willing to spend on "expensive" products - given the kind of $ for a property at DPC, I'll look elsewhere - I find the place too densely populated for the kind of price

2. I've mentioned in my earlier posts I feel DPC is over-priced.

My statement above was really just a direct answer to buying "expensive" homes.

hi... anyone live in desa park city? A buyer approached me to buy a 2x storey house in desa park city overthere but roughly I nit to know how is the condition there....My main concern is about the transportation and facilities, not much on the living condition. Currently work in Tangkak, would transfer to sri damansara soon. the buyer told me that sd is very nearby dpc. Plz comment.

what's the market like in DPC? many types of 2storey there right? i think the most economical is the Nadia...but aint that spacious..shud be ok for couples with 1 or 2 kids..not for big grown ups...

a friend of mine staying there, Nadia, bot >2 years ago..paid RM600k + another 200k++ for renovations...i think basic unit, intermediate goes for RM750k or so...

altho bandar Sri Damansara (BSD) is literally opposite of DPC, you probably need to exit from Manjalara side (near mosque) to MRR2 and heads straight towards Sg Buloh before you can turn to BSD. exiting thru Manjalara could prove to be quite a challenge especially during rush hour...

all being said, the biggest regret was i didnt get one unit in DPC when it was launched at RM450k...its truly a wonderful neighborhood...i absolutely love it...

i agree.....

Just a small bump for this thread.

The latest going to launch Casaman is gonna sell @ ridiculous price 1.7M for Double Storey Link(middle unit), 3 storey link house is asking for 2.2m to 2.9m.