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Financial Is property going to drop?, General property price discussion

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0106127
post Sep 2 2010, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(cloudwan0 @ Sep 1 2010, 10:19 AM)
ya, very cheap if exchange in currency, WTF, y malaysia like to compare with those high income country. y dont try to compare to others SEA country like indo, thailand.... SG fresh graduate degree holder get 3.5k salary, wat about m'sia. in SG if mid income dont have enough $ to buy private condo they still can go for government condo which price is below 500k. wat malaysia got? low cost flat and low cost house only for those family total income <3k. so wanna compare with HK, ya their house very the expensive, so? they dont have enough land, HK salary is 10x malaysia salary. wat u still want to compare?
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YES housing prices is very very afordable in malaysia. it is one of the lowest among developing country. every one can buy a house in malaysia easily. those people that are making noise is only great in their "noise" and would like to live in super link, semi D and bungalow.

a basic 3 room flat average 60k with monthly installment RM300. those that are making noise, is just plain CHOOSY
wwwcomment
post Sep 2 2010, 01:24 PM

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QUOTE(0106127 @ Sep 2 2010, 01:00 PM)
YES housing prices is very very afordable in malaysia. it is one of the lowest among developing country. every one can buy a house in malaysia easily. those people that are making noise is only great in their "noise" and would like to live in super link, semi D and bungalow.

a basic 3 room flat average 60k with monthly installment RM300. those that are making noise, is just plain CHOOSY
*
are you being sarcastic or are you for real? rclxub.gif
blasto
post Sep 2 2010, 01:30 PM

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QUOTE(Pai @ Aug 27 2010, 12:22 AM)
Blasto, your fren is a great example of those who never pretended to be an expert and tried to time the market. And he's not the only one, many others made tonnes of $$$ from buying the RIGHT PROP.................. instead trying hard to buy properties at the RIGHT TIME.
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Pai ... thx for the advise, those been into the game know better. I'll take some time to digest your qoute.

buying the RIGHT PROP.................. instead trying hard to buy properties at the RIGHT TIME.

Imho.... i don't think we will follow/implement SG rules..back here cash speaks. The more cars the better, The more property the better. If you don't buy many foreigners will. We are heading 2020.

By the time if there is any rules their people is well taken care already. laugh.gif
cloudwan0
post Sep 2 2010, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(0106127 @ Sep 2 2010, 01:00 PM)
YES housing prices is very very afordable in malaysia. it is one of the lowest among developing country. every one can buy a house in malaysia easily. those people that are making noise is only great in their "noise" and would like to live in super link, semi D and bungalow.

a basic 3 room flat average 60k with monthly installment RM300. those that are making noise, is just plain CHOOSY
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lol, which flat u are refer to? please give source.
what i know those low cost flat is only applicable for those total household income < 3k
0106127
post Sep 3 2010, 12:53 AM

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QUOTE(cloudwan0 @ Sep 2 2010, 02:11 PM)
lol, which flat u are refer to? please give source.
what i know those low cost flat is only applicable for those total household income < 3k
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give me location i will give u the place.

exclude CBD


Added on September 3, 2010, 12:53 am
QUOTE(wwwcomment @ Sep 2 2010, 01:24 PM)
are you being sarcastic or are you for real? rclxub.gif
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there are many affordable properties around

This post has been edited by 106127: Sep 3 2010, 12:53 AM
shanelai
post Sep 3 2010, 09:02 AM

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QUOTE(106127 @ Sep 3 2010, 12:53 AM)
give me location i will give u the place.

exclude CBD


Added on September 3, 2010, 12:53 am
there are many affordable properties around
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How about bandar utama? Do provide a link if possible.
Onemorething
post Sep 3 2010, 10:07 AM

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QUOTE(shanelai @ Aug 31 2010, 03:37 PM)
What does RE stand for as the post posted by onemorething? beside real estate as used in the post.


Added on September 1, 2010, 9:22 amSaw in the news that comment from housing minister, the property price is malaysia still very cheap compared to other country i.e. Singapore, HK and China hence it attract more foreign investor to invest in Malaysia property market. He futher explained that the property price will still increase in the near future until a point and will remain constant after that. Even if drop also won't exceed 10%.

Any would like to comment on that?? smile.gif
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Spoken like a true politician...what else is he going to say! Politicians + Banks + Brokers + RE Agents + Developers + Media defend policy and values until the bitter end...ask the western world.

Remember, you can not have an Asian Centric View unless Asia has evolved to be the powerhouse next generation economy, that will only start after the Western World finally gives in to the move. 15 - 20 years away to start. There is massive sovereign debt to be managed over the next 3-5 years that will put a final end to this cycle. During this time, the destinations above will suffer badly especially China followed by HK and Sing. Malaysia will not be spared with the exception of moderate corrections, 10-30% based on speculation/location.

I buy property when rates are high, tight lending in place etc as this means supply outstrips demand and prices fall to their lowest possible level. This is the time to get in. My suggestion to anyone who cannot afford to put down 30% right now is to stay out, rent, take the extra cash flow and save until this time occurs.

Remember, a balanced portfolio should only include 40% of your net worth in RE, 60% should be in other balanced investements given your circumstances. Just ask all the baby boomers right now with 85%+ of all net worth in RE if they can retire in the USA now, 5 or 10 years down the road? Not! Dumping homes for cash where 3 more years of downturn in RE in USA is poised to take the market on avg. to 50% drop. Smells just like QE in Japan the last 20 years and will happen to some extent in EUROzone and absolutely in UK. Canada Aus NZ and China next to burst but coming in November mid terms USA.

This is only my opinion and for the value of those here who are not property investors but HOME buyers for personal use. I'm a property investor and I choose to wait as well.


preego88
post Sep 3 2010, 10:18 AM

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QUOTE(Onemorething @ Sep 3 2010, 10:07 AM)
Spoken like a true politician...what else is he going to say!  Politicians + Banks + Brokers + RE Agents + Developers + Media defend policy and values until the bitter end...ask the western world. 

Remember, you can not have an Asian Centric View unless Asia has evolved to be the powerhouse next generation economy, that will only start after the Western World finally gives in to the move.  15 - 20 years away to start.  There is massive sovereign debt to be managed over the next 3-5 years that will put a final end to this cycle.  During this time, the destinations above will suffer badly especially China followed by HK and Sing.  Malaysia will not be spared with the exception of moderate corrections, 10-30% based on speculation/location.

I buy property when rates are high, tight lending in place etc as this means supply outstrips demand and prices fall to their lowest possible level.  This is the time to get in.  My suggestion to anyone who cannot afford to put down 30% right now is to stay out, rent, take the extra cash flow and save until this time occurs. 

Remember, a balanced portfolio should only include 40% of your net worth in RE, 60% should be in other balanced investements given your circumstances.  Just ask all the baby boomers right now with 85%+ of all net worth in RE if they can retire in the USA now, 5 or 10 years down the road?  Not! Dumping homes for cash where 3 more years of downturn in RE in USA is poised to take the market on avg. to 50% drop.  Smells just like QE in Japan the last 20 years and will happen to some extent in EUROzone and absolutely in UK.  Canada Aus NZ and China next to burst but coming in November mid terms USA.

This is only my opinion and for the value of those here who are not property investors but HOME buyers for personal use.  I'm a property investor and I choose to wait as well.
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I'd like to make a wild guess...
ONEMORETHING is probably wallaping the property market while asking u guys to stop buying and WAIT. rclxm9.gif rclxm9.gif
While he buys and sell till government finally tightens all the rulez..... the poor 2-3k earners will forever be stucked in the 700sqf pigeon hole. rclxub.gif
Just a wild guess sweat.gif sweat.gif
Onemorething
post Sep 3 2010, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(cloudwan0 @ Sep 2 2010, 12:05 PM)
just saw a news, sg government try to prevent property bubble, they set alot of rules to made sure no property bubble. like 70% loan for second house. private house owner have to sell of all their houses b4 getting a government condo. when a new house is purchase, owner have to wait for certain period(i not sure how long) to own second house.

but what m'sia do? minister say there is no property bubble, so nothing to do. WTF, they have to wait until the bubble occur then search for a solution, not prevent it.
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Newsflash, when a government takes action/policy quoting a bubble is forming...it's due to the fact it already has and has the potential to gain size and strength further before it eventually pops.

10-30% correction in KL and burbs coming 2-3 years IMHO! 30% to High End and Speculative Low-Mid!

Reasons : Finally the real recession/depression will play out in Western World. Sovereign Debt, High RE bubbles and Demographic of Boomers all meet on the charts (first and only time in history). G7/G10 Countries all take their own approach at dealing with debt so currency crisis potential. China bubble bursts (managed downturn as you would expect). Commodity countries still left based on false demand (Canada/AUS) bubble bursts 40-50% down. USD up for time being revist last 2008 early 2009 levels. Spring 2011..USD flops...dollar debasement and all currencies have to devalue to remain competitive (Swiss Franc / Yen safe havens). New Global Currency? Maybe more than one for West and East!

DEFLATION next 2-3 years followed by moderate inflation however the cost of foods/staple goods will inflate heavily. Note that the price of food in Malaysia is already more expensive!!! Living costs increasing by 10-15%!

End game - Malaysia has moderate correction, buy in this trough and be poised to do well in the next generation of Asian Expansion! 10-20 years out!

robertngo
post Sep 3 2010, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(0106127 @ Sep 2 2010, 01:00 PM)
YES housing prices is very very afordable in malaysia. it is one of the lowest among developing country. every one can buy a house in malaysia easily. those people that are making noise is only great in their "noise" and would like to live in super link, semi D and bungalow.

a basic 3 room flat average 60k with monthly installment RM300. those that are making noise, is just plain CHOOSY
*
actually RM 300 would be expensive when the poverty line is about RM 700, and factory worker even in selangor are being pay as low as RM 600, so these kind of most basic flat are also too expensive for them.
Onemorething
post Sep 3 2010, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(preego88 @ Sep 3 2010, 10:18 AM)
I'd like to make a wild guess...
ONEMORETHING is probably wallaping the property market while asking u guys to stop buying and WAIT.  rclxm9.gif  rclxm9.gif
While he buys and sell till government finally tightens all the rulez..... the poor 2-3k earners will forever be stucked in the 700sqf pigeon hole.  rclxub.gif
Just a wild guess  sweat.gif  sweat.gif
*
The top is in my friend...I dont own any RE now...liquid in Preferred Stocks and 7-10% yields only! I practise what I preach and dont expect many to follow my plan but that's normal. The 2-3K income earner you speak of helped create the bubble as well.

Unlike Asia in the future, RE in the Western World is done! Ask Japan! RE will only be shelter for them and the trend to rent, free up cash flow for much more worthy investments will occur after this 30 years of credit expansion. That is all!

I realize most of you will not agree with my view...it is only there to give you a more global perspective!
0106127
post Sep 3 2010, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(robertngo @ Sep 3 2010, 10:30 AM)
actually RM 300 would be expensive when the poverty line is about RM 700, and factory worker even in selangor are being pay as low as RM 600, so these kind of most basic flat are also too expensive for them.
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factory worker RM600? are you sure? where can u hire such a cheap factory workers? i need too.
please provide contact.


Added on September 3, 2010, 11:57 am
QUOTE(shanelai @ Sep 3 2010, 09:02 AM)
How about bandar utama? Do provide a link if possible.
*
pelangi damansara. rental 550-600 per month. sales price around 60k

This post has been edited by 106127: Sep 3 2010, 11:58 AM
theoutdoorzone
post Sep 3 2010, 12:06 PM

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QUOTE(106127 @ Sep 3 2010, 11:55 AM)
factory worker RM600? are you sure? where can u hire such a cheap factory workers? i need too.
please provide contact.


Added on September 3, 2010, 11:57 am
pelangi damansara. rental 550-600 per month. sales price around 60k
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Nowadays outsourcing agent for foreign workers are quoting RM 1100 to RM1300 for foreign workers. It is because of our government policy which create a high cost for foreign workers because of excessive levy and administrative charges. Even foreign workers with no permit is asking for higher salary than locals and the employers are paying the asking asking price as foreign workers are punctual, less maintainance etc
robertngo
post Sep 3 2010, 12:10 PM

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QUOTE(106127 @ Sep 3 2010, 11:55 AM)
factory worker RM600? are you sure? where can u hire such a cheap factory workers? i need too.
please provide contact.
QUOTE
A tale of twin addictions: ‘Cheap stuff and foreign workers’

By Sheridan Mahavera

BANGI, March 30 — Wanted Urgently: Electronic engineers for Bangi-based multi-national corporation manufacturing capacitors. Starting salary: RM2,500. Benefits: full medical, housing and personal loans, and a RM200 monthly transport allowance.

Sounds like a plum job for our engineering graduates right? The employer in question, Nichicon (Malaysia) sdn Bhd, doesn’t think it was attractive enough.

Its human resources manager Mohd Taufik Abdullah claims despite advertising everywhere and postings on job sites, the company could not get even one Malaysian to fill the 10 posts available.

“In the end, we were forced to hire Filipino engineers through an agent we knew.

“Yes, we hear it all the time too, that universities and colleges produce thousands of engineers a year. But where were they when we were looking for them?” asks Mohd Taufik.

Alfred James says the manpower shortage is still acute and multinational companies are already pulling out of Malaysia and going to Thailand, Vietnam and China. — Pictures by Choo Choy May

That industries are addicted to foreigners to do the menial, repetitive, tiring, dirty, hazardous but critical jobs is not a new thing. But highly-paid and skilled posts like engineers?

And it’s not just engineers, says Mohd Taufik and his colleague Noor Azman Abdullah of Hosiden Electronics (Malaysia) Sdn Bhd.

Factories in the Bangi area, where most of the big-name electronic factories in Selangor are based, are having problems hiring local clerks, technicians and junior executives.

This is not the tip of the iceberg. This is the iceberg, claims factories and the associations who represent them in Selangor, Malaysia’s most industrialised state.

The government froze new permits for foreign workers in September 2009. It was partly to cure this addiction to foreigners and to protect retrenched Malaysian workers during the economic recession.

But companies say that there are no locals to hire and the freeze is severely crippling them.

To merely say this is a problem that needs a solution is to underestimate the dimensions of the issue. In a way, the addiction to foreigners is intertwined with how the Malaysian economy has grown over the past two decades.

More accurately, the dependency is a result of the tremendous explosion of the middle-class in the 70s and the highly-qualified generation of the 80s and 90s that was born to that strata of society.

The continued need for foreigners has also spawned a cancerous network of agents, corrupt officials and unscrupulous manufacturers that seem to operate behind the formal economy and which feeds its existence.

And if this manpower imbalance is not dealt with really, really soon, it will tighten the snares around Selangor and the rest of Malaysia, and prevent it from ever escaping the middle-income trap.

“It’s not just our graduates who are leaving”

The companies are already leaving, declares Selangor Federation of Malaysian Manufacturers chairman Tan Sri Alfred James.

“At the end of last year, an electronics giant in Bangi could not get the 1,000 workers it requested. They went straight to the government but the minister they met couldn’t help them. In the end, they packed up and left.

Noor Azman (left) and Mohd Taufik says manufacturing firms are now finding it even more difficult to hire locals for non-assembly jobs such as clerks, supervisors and engineers. — Pictures by Choo Choy May

“They had wanted to expand their base in Malaysia. They have been here for decades and had established themselves yet they couldn’t expand because they couldn’t get workers,” says James.

The shortage over the past several months after the permit freeze have been the most acute. Though there is a freeze, companies can only apply for foreigners if they can demonstrate that they have tried and failed to hire locals.

According to an FMM survey in September 2009, 94 companies in the state reported that they had a total of 11,580 vacancies for unskilled posts. Of those, 4,991 were in the electrical and electronics sector.

James claims that in the beginning of this year there were up to 13,000 vacancies.

Though the government said that about 100,000 permits had been approved to fill this critical shortage, James says that it is not enough.

“It’s 100,000 workers for the whole of Malaysia. The 13,000 we need is only for the industrial sector in Selangor. It does not count the services sector, the restaurants, the small shops that need workers. “

James contends that there is a lag time between getting permit approvals and actually getting the workers into the factories — a process that can take up to a year.

The companies in the survey claimed that they needed foreigners because locals “shied away or did not stay long” in “3D jobs” — dirty, dangerous and demeaning.

Another reason for not hiring locals was the “high rate of absenteeism and turnover.”

More electronics giants have threatened to move their operations out of Malaysia if the government cannot help them ease their worker shortages.

Electronic and electrical firms are especially important to Selangor as amongst all the state’s industries, they contribute the most to its Gross Domestic Product (GDP).

Industries on a whole contribute about 37.3 per cent to Selangor’s GDP.

“This is a major reason deterring new investments,” claims James. “We’ve had companies who want to open up in Malaysia but who have turned back when they saw the manpower problems.”

[Factory workers not only complain of low wages. Sometimes their employers “transfer them” to an outsourcing company that doesn’t pay them benefits and allowances. — Pictures by Choo Choy May]

Factory workers not only complain of low wages. Sometimes their employers “transfer them” to an outsourcing company that doesn’t pay them benefits and allowances. — Pictures by Choo Choy May
The same old tune

Veteran union organiser G. Rajasekaran has heard all of this before and scoffs at them.

“There are 400,000 school leavers every year.,100,000 of them will pursue tertiary education and that leaves 300,000 people entering the job market.

“These are SPM-qualified kids and they are coming to Penang, Johor and the Klang valley for jobs. If you pay them enough they will work in your factory,” insists G. Rajasekaran, secretary-general of Malaysian Trade Union Congress, the umbrella body for all private sector unions.

His point is seen in the wages of 24 of 94 companies in the Selangor FMM survey:

More than half (17) offered a basic salary of between RM400 to RM700 per month. Two of them offered only RM20 to RM50 a day in wages. One company offered between RM800 to RM900 a month and another was prepared to pay RM1,000 a month.

“The government had set the minimum pension for retirees at RM720 per month. The reasoning is that no one can live on less.

“So if it is acknowledged that this is the minimum someone needs to live on, why are these factories only paying an average salary of RM500?”

Though companies claim that with various allowances and overtime, workers can take home close to RM900, Rajasekaran counters that these extras pay for the cost of going to work. The transport allowance, for instance, evaporates like the petrol fumes.

In reality, can you reasonably get someone to live on RM600 a month in the Klang Valley, Penang or Johor since these are where the industries are, asks Rajasekaran.

Which is why he repeats MTUC’s clarion call for the government to set the minimum wage at RM900 a month to suit Malaysia’s cost of living. Thailand and Vietnam, for instance, where some of these companies are threatening to relocate to, have minimum wage rates.

However, Selangor FMM’s James counters this by saying that there is no guarantee that raising wages would get locals to work.

Firms complain that locals who do assembly-line work are unwilling to work long hours and some are tardy. — Pictures by Choo Choy May

The problem with a minimum wage, James argues, is that it will make employers band together and not raise salaries.

“You must let wages be market-driven,” he says.

The price of more shopping malls

Noor Azman has clocked in close to 30 years as a human resource manager in a few international manufacturers and believes that this is all a cycle.

“When I started out in the 80s, every kid from the kampung and Felda schemes came to Selangor to work in the factories. And then it became harder to hire them in the early 90s and we started sourcing workers from countries poorer than us.

“Our kids on the other hand are now factory workers, cooks and waiters in Singapore and the UK because wages there are higher.”

In other words, we are the “Indons and Banglas” of the UK. And it’s really not hard to figure out how this happened.

Another senior manager of an electronics firm does not say it out right but it would be hard for his company — a component manufacturer for all manner of electronics like remote controls, phones, computers and refrigerators — to raise wages.

The mean salary of production operators he says had been raised to RM650 to better entice locals. But a higher salary would eat into the company’s operating costs and crimp its ability to compete with rivals.

In other words, there is a connection between our love for cheap electronics and Malaysia’s low wages for unskilled labour.

MTUC’s G. Rajasekaran says it is unreasonable to expect to Malaysians to live on the paltry wages being paid by Malaysian companies. — Pictures by Choo Choy May

This is not just a Selangor or even a Malaysian problem.

A December 2004 report in BusinessWeek magazine highlighted how US manufacturers of state-of-the-art products such as precision machine tools and circuit boards for military equipment, were literally dying from Chinese imports.

The American businesses interviewed in the report said their Chinese rivals were able to make their products at 30 to 50 per cent less because Chinese workers were paid less than Americans.

The more “developed” Malaysia becomes and the more college and university graduates it produces, the more the country will need foreign workers, Selangor FMM’s James says.

It’s no accident that the country started importing more and more foreigners in the early 90s — when affordable private colleges blossomed everywhere and swallowed the masses of youths born to the New Economic Policy generation.

“Every child wants to study and this creates a vacuum in terms of labour,” says James. The vacuum is not just in factories but seen in the “sales assistant wanted” posters in the numerous shopping malls sprouting all over the country.

“Who is going to fill these jobs? The reality is that there may not be enough Malaysians.

“And if we do not want foreign workers then we must make do with fewer malls, fewer restaurants, fewer hypermarkets and fewer luxuries.”

Added on September 3, 2010, 12:13 pm
QUOTE(106127 @ Sep 3 2010, 11:55 AM)
pelangi damansara. rental 550-600 per month. sales price around 60k
*
pelangi damansara is in bandar utama? not kota damansara??

This post has been edited by robertngo: Sep 3 2010, 12:13 PM
shanelai
post Sep 3 2010, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(106127 @ Sep 3 2010, 11:55 AM)
factory worker RM600? are you sure? where can u hire such a cheap factory workers? i need too.
please provide contact.


Added on September 3, 2010, 11:57 am
pelangi damansara. rental 550-600 per month. sales price around 60k
*
Where you look for the sales price = RM60k? provide your link to it
i simply search also btw RM250k - RM350k here
yott-chan
post Sep 3 2010, 02:16 PM

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i think what he meant was not EXACTLY pelangi damansara brown colored condo by metro kajang, but there's one block flat white colored right opposite of the condo.. a lot of people missed that building, but there's actually a low cost flat there wink.gif
Iceman74
post Sep 3 2010, 09:46 PM

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(RM550x12)/RM60000= 11% return

very good investment biggrin.gif
0106127
post Sep 4 2010, 02:07 AM

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QUOTE(yott-chan @ Sep 3 2010, 02:16 PM)
i think what he meant was not EXACTLY pelangi damansara brown colored condo by metro kajang, but there's one block flat white colored right opposite of the condo.. a lot of people missed that building, but there's actually a low cost flat there wink.gif
*
yup.. many ppl dont know there there is a few blocks of flat behind the shops.
its cheap, close to amenities, lrt coming. and those flats are also pelangi damansara

but there are too many , CHOOSY Malaysian


Added on September 4, 2010, 2:08 am
QUOTE(robertngo @ Sep 3 2010, 12:10 PM)

Added on September 3, 2010, 12:13 pm

pelangi damansara is in bandar utama? not kota damansara??
*
this place is only 1 road separating bandar utama

This post has been edited by 106127: Sep 4 2010, 02:10 AM
Pai
post Sep 4 2010, 03:33 AM

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QUOTE(Onemorething @ Sep 3 2010, 10:07 AM)
My suggestion to anyone who cannot afford to put down 30% right now is to stay out, rent, take the extra cash flow and save until this time occurs. 
*
Chief,

For most highrise in KV with decent prospects, cost of ownership will be cheaper VS renting............ hence I wouldnt advocate the same smile.gif

Your advise makes more sense for those gunning to buy landed props wink.gif
cloudwan0
post Sep 6 2010, 09:47 AM

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QUOTE(106127 @ Sep 3 2010, 11:55 AM)
factory worker RM600? are you sure? where can u hire such a cheap factory workers? i need too.
please provide contact.


Added on September 3, 2010, 11:57 am
pelangi damansara. rental 550-600 per month. sales price around 60k
*
please dont simply put the price here, whos knows the price is true or fake
just provide link or any sos that there is unit sale in 60k at pelangi damansara.

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