My point was, one cannot judge "the best manager" simply from the length of his tenure and the titles he hold under his belt. Yes, those are major factors to look in but we have to also take other factors into like the way he manages his players, his relationship with the media, the way he treats the referees, relationship with other managers and so on and so forth.

SAF might boast a string of titles, no doubt about it. But let us put the other factors into argument and we may have a more fruitful discussion. There is a difference between "the best manager" and "the manager who won the most titles".

This post has been edited by blinky: Jan 8 2009, 02:40 PM

So, you said is not fair to compare SAF because they live in different era?Then, why compare SAF with the likes of Mourinho, Benitez and Wenger at the 1st place...Most of SAF's winning trophies are not the same era with younger manager like Mourinho and Benitez.

Lets take the millennium era as a measuring era which mean the number of trophies won after year 2000.

League title, European cup, Super Cup, Club World Championship as major trophies

Fa cup, cup of portugal, etc as minor trophies

# FA Charity/Community Shield will not be taken into account since it's main purpose is for charity and not a real competition.


SAF
# Premier League: 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08
# FA Cup: 2003–04
# League Cup: 2005–06
# UEFA Champions League: 2007–08
# FIFA Club World Cup: 2008


Total number: 8
Major trophies: 6
Minor trophies : 2


Jose Mourinho

* Portuguese Championships: 2002-03, 2003-04
* Cup of Portugal: 2002-03
* SuperCup Cândido de Oliveira: 2003
* UEFA Champions League: 2004
* UEFA Cup: 2003
* FA Premier League: 2004-05, 2005-06
* FA Cup: 2007
* Carling Cup: 2005, 2007
* Supercoppa Italiana: 2008


Total: 12
Major trophies: 6
Minor trophies : 6


Rafa Benitez

* La Liga
o Winner (2): 2001-02, 2003-04

* UEFA Cup
o Winner (1): 2003-04

* FA Cup
o Winners (1): 2006


* UEFA Champions League
o Winners (1): 2004-05

* European Super Cup
o Winners (1): 2005

Total : 6
Major trophies: 5
Minor trophy : 1


Arsene Wenger

# Premier League 2001-02, 2003-04
# FA Cup : 2001-02, 2002-03, 2004-05

Total: 5
Major : 2
Minor : 3


Well, u did mention that unfair to compare because the different in era...Now, is fair and square...And obviously JM is way better than SAF...Anymore arguments?

This post has been edited by solstice818: Jan 8 2009, 03:31 PM

Really? This is because he got nothing to complain as the other teams played way better. Then dont give him the fund to spend like Arsene. Do you think he will make it? He is best when it comes to flying boots!! DB, RVN, AC, DY, JS? Remember any or these players?

This post has been edited by gwong: Jan 8 2009, 04:25 PM

Anyway, he ONLY openly admitted that the team deserved to lose to Liverpool.After the arsenal games, he did moan about having away game at Emirates bla bla bla...

Speaking of spending wise, Steve Bruce rox...anyone of u heard Zaki and others before they are here?

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Added on January 8, 2009, 3:52 pmSeriously, I hardly judge a manager by looking SOLELY on the number of trophies he won..

Duke got his points too...Football is about winning.Thus, the winning ratio of manager plays a big part...

This post has been edited by solstice818: Jan 8 2009, 03:52 PM

Zaki is a suprise package in BPL this season but too many goals scored from the spot but can't deny that he has the quality, but Bruce got Birmingham relegated didnt he?

Notice that UEFA has a league level multiplier when awarding the European Golden Boot. Please be smarter and use the Portuguese league multiplier.


btw, i disagree that we shouldn't compare with achievements that are not of the same era. Doesn't mean we look over past acheivements. If you follow this way, a league 2, league winning manager in 2005 is better then Vicente del Bosque??

If this is gonna be judged by trophies won, the level of competition of what the trophy was won has to be taken into consideration.

This post has been edited by befitozi: Jan 8 2009, 04:00 PM

I knew that someone would actually come out with this excuse...All this while, u guys been coming out with excuses after excuses...

1st say look at the number of trophies, then era, then now league multiplier...

Great...I wonder what next?

Why, not a good reason? Tell me why not.

nothing to complain? berbatov goal that not allowed? there is no offside at all, does he come out n complaint to referee?

the problem is do u really think arsene dowan to spend money if he have it? fact is he got no money to spend on players.. ya u can always play with youngster wait till arsene win some major trophy with the young star then come n talk...

when come to beckham, nistelrooy..why u need to keep someone that u cant control in ur team..spoilt the mood in the dressing room like what gallas n toure did at arsenal? bedther n adebayor fighting each other? or what chelsea having now drogba come out n complain about his late grandmother.. do a big team need player like that?

capello, sir alex both are strict discipline manager.. they are the boss in the dressing room..see what different capello do to england compare to mcclaren n sven time.. they need total control of the team..if u dun like it just leave..

Different era different standard of football as well...So, thats one of the thing we must take in considerations as well...But looking at the different league is slightly too much, no? Every league got their own strength and weaknesses and i wouldnt say any league is better than another league..Is quite pointless...

So winning League 2 is as hard as winning the Premiership?

Yes its true, different era has different standard of football. Thats where difficulty mutliplier is important. Portuguese league would have a higher mutliplier then EPL during Benfica and Eusebio's day.

In other words, you are trying to say winning the portugal championship is not a big achievements?

People always rate EPL as the best league and so on but to me thats bullshit...2 English teams in UCL final is nothing...Look at the record of CL, the English won the most CL is Liverpool and thats MERELY 5 ..Look at Milan, then look at madrid...

The league multiplier doesnt act as an accurate measurement at all..Then why use it in the 1st place?

that time he already left brimingham he left mid season..join wigan

Complain as you wish like what you are doing now! Man Utd supporters..

Btw, Can you see what is the different Capello do to Engliand compared to McClaren? Are you the staff of the England national team. Then how you know? Anyway, he brought the Italian way to make English better didnt he. Can I say Italian coaches or manager have more superiority? What I see is that they havent won anything big yet. Wait till the days comes then only you shout!

And do u seriously winning league 2 is easy? Winning a league 2 championship is as hard as premiership...The premiership clubs tend to spend more on quality players and league 2 club have a limited budgets..Which one harder to manage? A club with limited budget or a club with rich yanks supporting the finance of transfer...Did u see any league 2 spend 30m on A PLAYER?Dun say 30m... they hardly spend 3m on a player..

oh..half of the cause then...

Want to add another twist

Marcelo Lippi

* Serie A: 2002, 2003
* SuperCoppa Italiana: 2002, 2003
* UEFA Champions League: 2003
* FIFA World Cup: 2006

Total: 6
Major: 6
Minor: None

Not a bad record eh? Considering he missed nearly 2 years of football after resigning from the Italy national team. He also missed club football since 2004. Right from 2004 until now entering 2009, he only challenged for the World Cup title with his national team. And he did it well. He won it once already!

This post has been edited by matyrze: Jan 8 2009, 04:10 PM

Read ^

Yes, winning the Portuguese league in this era is not as great as before. So is winning Malaysian Super league less of a achievement then winning the La Liga

The multiplier changes through time, judge what was won back then and now based on the multiplier then and now.

Yes, winning League 2 is as hard as winning the Premiership.

Any reason for me not to believe that?

so are u telling me mr moaninho did not moan at all during his tenure at chelsea? arsene wenger famous for his i didnt saw that when any arsenal players make a rough tackle or dive? he also always use his team is young as excuses to lose game or tteam in transition..