sorry, maybe i joined this thread too late already..but i have to stress somthing to all those fans-of-bpl-teams voters..



with this kind of records, i am really surprised that i am only the 4th person to vote him as the best managers..yeah maybe SAF can challenge him for this honour, becoz he has won many many many domestic league titles, but to choose JM or wenger instead of lippi, that is really illogical..
while SAF had done super-brilliantly at domestic stage, lippi has done super-brilliantly on international level..he entered 4 UCL finals and won it once, has won intercontinental cup, and he won the WORLD CUP, and any manager who won the world cup, is not only a great manager, but he is also a world's legend!!

plz think reasonably whenever u cast ur votes..maybe wikipedia.com can help u to choose more wisely after this..thank you

This post has been edited by matyrze: Jun 9 2008, 03:58 PM

haha..yes i already read SAF's article in wikipedia..and i already admitted that he has won many many many titles..but those all are with man united..he doesnt prove himself yet on the international stage..

u should note that while fergie won UCL 2 times over 10 years, lippi involve in UCL final 4 times in 7 years, which suggest consistency in his achievements on continental level..and plus the world cup..

yeah maybe u will say fergie surely have the ability to win WC, but lippi has done it..until SAF manage a national football team and at least bring that team to reach WC final match, then only i will say he is the greatest manager

SAF and lippi are real contenders here, not arsene wenger and JM, absolutely not..imo, hitzfeld has done better than AW and JM

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Added on June 9, 2008, 5:16 pmyeah dude..i forgotto mention mr. trap..one of the greatest too..and mr. trap only got 1 vote??



This post has been edited by matyrze: Jun 9 2008, 05:22 PM

yeah i really want to see fergie manage an international team one day..bcoz a manager with his reputation should have some records in international scene too..

for me, d greatest manager should have achievements in both club and international level..for instance rinus michel (inventor of total football - he nvr won WC though, only a runners up in 1974)..for me, number is an impotant criteria, but that is 2nd to the prestige of the titles..people should look at the prestige of the title first, and then the numbers..the reasoning is only the best players and coaches competed in the best tounament, and only achievements in these prestigious tounaments should be count..fergie dont have WC, so i rated him as a very very very good manager (bcoz of the numbers), but lippi is a legend, and i personally recognize him as d greatest among d greats..he achieved almost eveything at club level and international level (err should i omit that 'almost' word? )

actually, my initial intention of joining this thread is to question why so many choosed JM and AW as their greatest manager??lippi only gets 7 votes until now while trappattoni gets only ONE vote

that is why i mentioned, to look for the best, we should look for managers who have achievements in both intenational AND domestic level..

i am definitely not going to pick any WC bluntly..for example, scolari..he did win the WC, but his records at club level is nothing..i will never say raymond domenech is great although he is a runners up of WC, bcoz his record at club level is zero..

and all of us should note that lippi took over the italy national team helm in 2004, juz after trappatoni stepped down, and he guided them throughout the whole qualifying campaign which spanned for 2 years..in this 2 years, national team coach can face many problems, such as injuries to their key players, mass media in their country and many more..he didnt managed the italians right before WC, he started from scratch, from tactics to mentality in the team, right after the euros, as the following quotes may explain more clearly...



and finally, he won WC, a feat that nobody can have any doubt in..

plus that with his club achievements..



he also brought a sleeping giant to the league glory..similar to fergie..
he failed once at inter milan though during 1999-2000 season..

This post has been edited by matyrze: Jun 10 2008, 02:25 PM

i must say managers should be credited based on his success..well, unlike football players, who have their missions or tasks on the field varied depending on their positions, managers meanwhile have only a single task..to WIN!!
if a manager didnt win enough honours, then he should be counted out..as that may suggest that throughout a single season, he might have done bad tactical decisions or bad transfer decisions etc..
some may say certain managers doesnt have the luxuries of big money generated by some oil derricks or whatever..err b4 u say this, please check how much villareal have spent each summer in recent years, and they got 2nd place in la liga, continuously in top 10 placings since 2003/2004 season and even reached the UCL semis several years back..
their signing of the season all was signed through free transfer..and do you know how small is villareal c.f??fyi, villareal is a port city where its whole population won't fill up old trafford(wikipedia: 49,045 (2007))..and their stadium is just a 23000 capacity stadium..for me Manuel Pellegrini have done really well here, his achievements is admirable considering the size of his club

guys, managers are appointed to bring continuous glories to their club and country, and whoever have done exactly that, then he should be considered..for me, this award should go to only this 2 persons Sir Alex ferguson(manhester united) and Marcelo Lippi(juventus and italy)

i am barca's fan, and i hate the way SAF play his team against us in UCL semis, especially in the 1st leg, really , but i must say his achievements are simply incredible..i wont make my judgements based on my interest on my club..and i think all LYN voters should do so too..

i bolded that name bcoz if arsene wenger have his name in our shorlist, that guy with that bolded name should also be on our list

This post has been edited by matyrze: Jun 12 2008, 01:27 PM

yes, u are right

actually fatih terim already made his name at italy during early 2000s..he coached fiorentina and milanfrom 2000 till 2002 iirc..only 3 years

absolutely u cant compare all managers, especially if there are from different countries or from very different footballing culture..

rijkaard said right after his sacking, that in spain, managers are impossible to last more than 5-6 years in a same club..because of the culture and the expectations of the board and fans..i dun wanna elaborate what he said, because i may be misleading the fact or what he meant in his statements..but just take capello's case as an example..won a la liga title and was sacked juz days after winning it..can u imagine that in epl??and then there is a guy called mancini, who brought 2 serie A titles to internazionale, sacked just bcos of failures in UCL?to bring new ideas into the club maybe..that is what very ambitious mr. moratti the chairman has been thinking quite sometime before mancini's sacking

this is absolutely different compared to epl..i like to take the example of gerard houllier..how long did he last with liverpool?6 years iirc..and he didnt brought constant success to the club..

so it is just quite unjust to make this kind of vote if many of the voters doesnt know much about other league..maybe this poll should concentrate on epl only..as i said earlier, if you wanna vote AW, just consider villareal's manuel pellegrini first..after moulding a group of experienced players and youngsters into a strong team in la liga, you will simply be amazed with his achievements too

p/s: to livepool fans, i still remember houllier is the manager of the treble winning team..so im not intentionally belittling his achievements, 00/01 is indeed a good season for livepool fc

peace

This post has been edited by matyrze: Jun 27 2008, 12:22 AM

Want to add another twist

Marcelo Lippi

* Serie A: 2002, 2003
* SuperCoppa Italiana: 2002, 2003
* UEFA Champions League: 2003
* FIFA World Cup: 2006

Total: 6
Major: 6
Minor: None

Not a bad record eh? Considering he missed nearly 2 years of football after resigning from the Italy national team. He also missed club football since 2004. Right from 2004 until now entering 2009, he only challenged for the World Cup title with his national team. And he did it well. He won it once already!

This post has been edited by matyrze: Jan 8 2009, 04:10 PM

Oh god, this thread

Been following all of you posting posts here and not many of them are closed to making conclusions, or to help finding conclusions in anyways

Lippi!! Lippi!! Lippi!!

This post has been edited by matyrze: Jan 8 2009, 04:37 PM

hehehehe...

And yeah, please people, don't just come to this thread and type whatever you want. Please think first.

Now I'm collecting Ottmar Hitzfeld achievements. Wait for my post OK?

Ottmar Hitzfeld

* Bundesliga: 2000, 2001, 2003, 2008
* German Cup: 2000, 2003, 2008
* UEFA Champions League: 2001
* Intercontinental Cup: 2001

Total: 9
Major: 6
Minor: 3

Quite impressive also. Now compare stats that solstice provided with Lippi's that I've provided. I surely convinced that Hitzfeld should be mentioned as the same breath as SAF and Lippi.

Thx for helping me out.

I would like to look for Trapattoni achievements, but I think his failure to guide Italy in Euro 2004 is his negative points in his current CV.

Longevity should not be considered in this thread. If we wan to campare managers within the same league, then that is all right, but this thread concentrates on managers from the whole Europe. So longevity of a manager is very much depending on the culture in the country. Current managers of MU, Arsenal and Liverpool have their own trophyless period with their club, and still their bosses still kept them. That can't be said in other countries. Just ask Roberto Mancini and Capello. Both were sacked right after they won league title!

And again, LIPPI! LIPPI! LIPPI!

This post has been edited by matyrze: Jan 8 2009, 05:08 PM

That is still okay for you guys Man Utd fans. For us non-EPL fans? Surely difficult to join the discussions. I always checked discussions thread with a certain topic title, and I would surely find EPL fans arguing there Posts with valid points still okay, I am always willing to read. But there are also a lot of pointless posts. Some of them are accusing or insulting one another. How come?

About your list, being a La Liga followers, I also can't think anybody other than Vicente del Bosque. That is not because La Liga didn't have many good tacticians, but La Liga clubs are usually impatient with their managers, and were so demanding. So once the club succumb into crisis, managers will surely be fired. As a result, there is no 'longevity' needed to be considered as the best. Example? Most recent is Schuster of course. Barca also have the history showing that they are also impatient with their managers. Err, I'm not talking about Rijkaard though, I am talking about Barca coaches before he took over.

Both Club and Country: MARCELO LIPPI