total only 18A? if combine rails how much you get?

18Amps per single +12V railings is above enough or standard

I'm using FSP Epsilon 80Plus 600w, with 64Amps, combination of 4/quad +12v railings of 18Amps each.

dunno how to differentiate single or combined..

i saw
+12VA = 18Amps
+12VB = 18Amps

so i guess combine is 36Amps?

^^^whats psu u using bro?

This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Sep 4 2009, 11:21 PM

Gigabyte superb 550W onli..

Yes, the gigabyte has double railings of +12v, in which 360w/+12v = 30A combined.



This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Sep 6 2009, 08:02 AM

thanks bro.. i m still noob n need to learn alot..

This post has been edited by farscope: Sep 5 2009, 12:03 AM

ok2 bro..thankz ..

i hear that p35 n 45 chipset will more excellent in oc..rite??

how to overclock a computer, guys? teach me..

12V rail for that PSU is actually 32A30A max allowed when combined both rails...
if hardware already accomodates 18A at 12V1 rail and balance capacity for 12V2 is 12A... vice versa...
ie..
12V1 =16A,12V2=14A...
12V1 = 17A, 12V2=13A

This post has been edited by campsol2k: Sep 5 2009, 05:03 AM

First of all,
The main difference is the CFire setup, the P35 has a x16 - x4 arrangement and the P45 has a x8 - x8 for both of the PCI-E graphic slots.
the P45 uses the newer ICH10 southbridge, the P35 uses the older ICH9. Not too much difference. But of course the p45 is the more newer/updated chip.

45 chipset will more excellent in oc..rite??

Intel claims that p45 does slightly better in Oc'ing compare to p43.


Just for your info, a p43 and p45 'almost' the same thing, (probably is, because the are manufactured with the same crystals)
but the main difference is that p45 is CFire capable and the p43 can't.

But there are few mobo's out there that have p45 chipset but does not utilize CF.
Some say it's a 'marketing gimmick' when it comes to such mobo's such as for example;
Gigabyte EP45-UD3L, MSI 7514 P45 Neo3-FR, Asus P5Q Turbo, etc......
This is because these mobo's use p45 chipsets but doesnt offer CF, which means u pay more unnecessarily for a mobo with chipset the similar performance as p43. But is that true? (the rest is better to be discussed in another thread unfortunately)..

My opinion is as such:
- P43 fsb overclocking is supposedly going to be restricted to 400-425fsb, but p45 can go moderately over that.
- If u'r not planning to go CrossFire the P43 is adequate.
- If u still not planning to go Crossfire but want a slight edge in OC'ing, go for the p45.
(Me personally will go for the p45 CF enabled mobo BUT if u don't want the CF option, the p43 is good enough and save some $$$. )
- p45 is probably a more updated version to p35 if u have trouble with which one to buy
- non-CF p45 mobo's cost more than p43 and p35

Overall i think u should get the p43 mobo's if u plan to use DDR2 800 because u dont need to go over 400fsb to get the 1:1 ratio,
get a p45 mobo if u plan to use DDR2 1066 & DDR2 1200 to get FSB up to 533..

To conclude in a logical sense, get a p43 mobo's if u are in a budget because you still can get 4.0ghz+ from the CPU. (400fsb~425fsb X 10~10.5)
But if u have some extra $$$, a tad more OC'ng headroom and won't mind emending to the 'marketing gimmick', its your choice to get the non-CF p45 mobo's.
Get a p35 mobo's if u want 'the reasonable of the p43 mobo's' and 'the similar performance of a p45 mobo's, but suffer a little from the older southbridge.




(man the thread is seriously getting out of its real topic lately............E7xxx. I have the funny feeling i might have cause it ever since i enter this thread)

I see...its equilibrium. So the max for 1 railing is 18Amps on that psu. How do you know its max Amp? whats the calculation?

Here's my PSU info:


so for my quad +12V, if one railing occupies 18A, the rest of the 3 unoccupied railings will have a shared/unshared Ampage of???
(at the moment all me rails are occupied)
In fact where does it written on the PSU details above of how much Max Ampage my psu have. Is it 60Amps?(just guessing)

I knew it i was suppose to pay more attention to Physics in high school

This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Sep 5 2009, 03:40 AM

Sorry.. i made a mistake earlier. The correct value is 30A.. U can refer to the label on both column "12V1 and 12V2" and row "max combined wattage"... 360W divide by 12V = 30A (Note..power law equation Power=Current X Voltage )...

As 4 your PSU.. Its simple actually.. simple mathematics... nothing to do with physics except the power law....
575W (combined {+12V} + {+3.3V} + {+5V} rails) - 155W (combined {+3.3V} + {+5V} rail) = 420 W capacity@12V rails (equivalent to 35A)

Specifically for your PSU... actually the rails are shared to single transformer (higher wattage/power PSU usually uses more than one transformer.. so different case)... the multi-rail PSU is designed to meet intel ATX PSU spec which limit each +12V rail to 18A for safety reason.... n each rail is routed to specific hardware... ie your PSU has 4 rails...so 12V1 for CPU, 12V3 for HDD, Optical, etc 12V2+12V4 for PCI-E graphics card(s)...

This post has been edited by campsol2k: Sep 5 2009, 09:55 PM

Thanks for the schooling, the equation 'Power(W) = Current(A) X Voltage(V)' is such a basic formula, but the last time i was in high school was years ago....


My former math teacher must be disappointed if he knows i forgot his teachings...

---

Added on September 5, 2009, 6:08 amOne more question, lets say a hardware occupies/acommendate 12v1 @ 18A, then how the 'balance capacity' works out on the rest of 12v2, 12v3, & 12v4? is it spread evenly?

This post has been edited by JoBigShow: Sep 5 2009, 06:09 AM

My previous statement

CPU already accommodated *18A @12V1.. so total capacity left @+12V rail is 17A... and that 17A is for the rest of the hardwares @ 12V2, 12V3, 12V4.. if one GC accommodates 7A @ each 12V2 and 12V4 (meaning 2 GCs)... then the current left for the HDDs and optical drives @12V3 is 3A...
the key ingredients to mix and match the +12V rails are.. don't exceed 18A load for each rail.. and dont exceed 35A load for combined rails...

* In reality... CPU doesnt eat that much power... my stock Q9550 eats around 55W~60W and when OCed w/ voltage increment @1.325V is approx 110W (ASUS EPU-6 Engine monitor report) .. and usually max possible power consumption for a CPU is 130W (11A) unless if the CPU is overclocked w/ voltage increment which add another +60W(5A) power consumption for example

This post has been edited by campsol2k: Sep 5 2009, 10:04 PM

Thanks bro, with what i learned, now i can accurately calculate how much my whole system consumes in terms of wattage, which hence i can figure out if my PSU is adequate for my current system and for other hardware upgrade to come in the future.

Yes, i forgot the real world application of power usage is different theoretically, like u mentioned,
So, my cpu consumes average 45W (on my E7400 OC'ed at 1.3v@ 35A x 1.3 = 46.2W)
My GC 4870 idle @ 150W (needs 2 6pin connector(75w x 2), load about 290W
DDR2 Ram 1.8v = 63w.

Thats already 400W, excluding the calculation of CD drives, FDD, HDD, etc. Am I underpowered, or am i just exaggerating theoretically? because lot of other people i know have similar PC setup as mined but able to run their pc even with lower powered PSU than mine.

Rig:
E7400 3.8ghz@ 1.312v
HD 4870
Asus P5QL-Pro
DDR2 2G 800mhz HyperX
1 HDD
1 DVD-R

Man... your estimation is way out of range...
a bit info just to let u know....
HDD uses +12VDC(for motor) and +5VDC supply rail..
Fans uses +12VDC supply rail
Mobo(SB/NB/etc) uses +5VDC +3.3VDC supply rails


- ATI HD4870 consumes max 180W (1 6-pin PCI-E connector supply upto 75W & PCI-E x16 slot supply upto 75W)... but normally the average power consumption doesnt exceed that number(70%~80% during gaming) ....
- DDR2 consumes estimated 12W on 4 slots (if one stick consumes around 3W).. the DDR3 uses less power than DDR2... DDR > DDR2 > DDR3
- For non-OCed/OCed CPU... the max power consumption is proportional to the increment of clock speed and the supply voltage...
- CPU or some hardwares power consumption varies between load... idle CPU uses less power...
- Your CPU consumes around 30~40W @ stock

ADDED:
Correction... i made a mistake again... i didnt notice that the rail distribution is stated on your PSU label. Most PSUs don't provide this kind of info to users... FSP is generous enough to put them on the their PSU label... so i made my own assumption before.... the actually rail distribution for your PSU ... 12V1 for CPU.. 12V2 for PCI-E GC... 12V3 for hdd/etc.. 12V4 PCI-E GC...

This post has been edited by campsol2k: Sep 5 2009, 10:58 PM

OK, i'll try to do the estimates again, correct me again if i'm wrong:
1 HDD rated @ +12v/+5v (0.5A, 0.6A), hence ((0.5A x 12)+(0.6A x 12)) = 9W
4 case fans, approx. 1.2w~1.4w each = approx. 5.2w
1 CPU fan 120mm = approx 1.8w
1 4870; 75w x 2 = 150w average
2 DDR2; 3W x 2 = 6w
1 OC'ed e7400 3.8ghz @1.3v = LOAD approx. 50w average. (reference from Everest readings)
1 Asus P5QL-Pro; SB,NB, etc. via 4pin atx + 24-pin EATXPWR = Just guessing about 50w max.

= 272w of approximation wattage usage

Therefore:
(155w - 50w) + (420w - 222w) = approx. 303w of headroom @575w;
303w x 100% / 600w = approx. 50.5% total reserved wattage.
Yes bro, how's this estimation measured up in the practical real world scenario?

And does the 80Plus efficiency by any chance can curb down the wattage usage? even a little?

You r on the right track (although some aren't accurate/correct but i think its acceptable for quick estimation)... The estimation u've made is the estimated peak wattage (this estimation helps u determine the right PSU capacity when building a computer) ... its unlikely your computer used that much most of the time because the hardwares power consumption varies between load... average will be estimated 70%~90% of the peak power during load (depends on the type of task ... gaming, etc )....
ie during gaming your hard disk will idle most of the time... CPU n GPU usage don't 100% utilized all the time during gaming... it depends on how efficient the games are coded or which games uses hardware efficiently such as CPU intensive game like GTA4 uses more CPU power than GPU...

Now.. the wattage u estimated is the ideal hardware consumption... but the real power consumption is the power drawn from your AC wall socket ( aka the amount of energy sucks from power utility company)... here the efficiency of a PSU comes into play. Most old PSUs have 70~75% efficiency@ "typical load" (Note: meaning 50% of total PSU capacity is loaded). However, most cap ayam PSUs have below 70% eff. By using 80plus PSUs which they have more than 80% efficiency.. u can save your energy bills...
ie
non 80-plus PSU (70% eff) - the amount of power drawn from socket = 272/0.7 = 388W
80-plus PSU (80% eff) - the amount of power drawn from socket = 272/0.8 = 340W
See the difference?

This post has been edited by campsol2k: Sep 6 2009, 04:36 PM

Yes, my estimation seems to aim at the max. of what my whole system will/can consume at peak wattage...
Probably in the back of my mind all these times i have second thoughts if my PSU is capable enough of handling another 4870 to CrossFire.
(Yes, since my rig is 3 months new, its still 'under watchful scrutiny' if the PSU capacity is suitable and have the capability to handle another 4870.)

It seems that the real power consumptions are variables, i dont think i'll be getting any accurate readings at any fixed measure...
Thanks for correcting the misinformation i have; that a system doesnt always hover/stays too long in its peaks wattage.
Like u said, in the premise of 70% ~ 90% load.

Relatively, adding insult to injuries I think I was made confused or mislead by PSU manufacturer's 'marketing gimmicks' when they advertised their PSU often @ peak wattage, but seldom their true power. It makes a hassle to those who's aware to the importance of power requirements and wants to build a rig with a complied PSU. Its just not about peak powers, but prominently are 'combined Amps' and the max. wattage at +12v rails, (which most power consuming hardware occupies/resides) which then follows with wattages @ +5v, then etc..

Efficiency-wise that u mentioned, that's a fair amount of energy saved if looked at a 1 years perspective of energy consumption in a household.
That 80Plus rating is for sure no gimmick i suppose.

Much gratitude man to your intervention and schooling in Mathematics i have now completed with another Chapter (Power Supply Unit 101),
which now adds into my 'resume' on 'Rig Building, OC'ing & PC Mods'.




To Moderators: I'll be back to E7xxx OC'ing topics any time soon