I need some help in training. Hope you guys can share some cool tips.

I have 3 westies - Casper (3 yr male), Moonie (2 yr female) and Marquis (1 yr male).

Casper has been neutered and Moonie is the submissive female, thus leaving Marquis in charge of the pack. The problem here is Marquis is very stubborn, barks a WHOLE lot and is easily jealous.

If we decide to bring Moonie out to the hall, leaving the 2 males in the kitchen, Marquis will bark non-stop. Unless you take a rolled-newspaper to hit the cage he's living in, he wont stop. Some times, after you hit the cage, he still challenge you. Until you open the cage door and smack him, then he stop, whine and whine and try to avoid the newspaper.

If others eat, he dont get, ALSO bark. Unlike him, Casper is the true gentleman and he has always been even before neutering.

Some times, we put our dogs out to the compound of the house and they run about. When see our neighbours (aunty washing clothes or drying clothes), Marquis is the ONLY one barking like crazy. Some times, his barking encourages others to bark along with him.

I have tried muzzle but just want to know before I go buy another muzzle (since the last piece broke), is there another way?

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Added on October 7, 2009, 5:42 pmAnyone know where to get citronella no-bark collar? It sprays lemon to distract the dog when it barks and this is proven harmless and two times more effective than shock collars, which yes, i know is inhumane. Worry not.

This post has been edited by Pennywise: Oct 7 2009, 05:42 PM

so cute ....

Hello! Looks like you are having a doggie who is more than happy to be the alpha doggie! As you have mentioned, Marquis is the leader of the pack which means he is/already/expected to be the first for everything ie to be fed, right to a toy, right of path etc etc. Now you are having power struggle with Marquis. It would be very long winded post, be I would strongly recommend you to read these books... ie

1. The Other End of the Leash by Patricia B. Mc Connell (she is a an animal behaviourist and zoologist) do check out her books on amazon.com. There is a thin book on How to be the leader of the pack by her. Easy and short read.

2. Of course the infamous/commercially promoted Ceaser Millan. No pun intended, his book is ok s basic reading.

I love Patricia's book as it gives the indepth of explaination/teaching you to read what's going on with your doggies mind. And most of her writtings are applicable to humans as well... esp children. When you read her book, you will understand her love and kindness for animals.

I have the same problem with my Heidi, just turned 1 plus.... i have 4 dogs altogether, PIng2 a shihtzu/aust silky mix (alpha female), Sebastien & Tea maltese and of course, Heidi my westie.

Story short, Heidi has started to flex her power muscle to challenge Ping and me. Examples are:-

1. Barking mad when she is at the back seat of the car, and will be silent when she is at the front seat squeezing with me and Ping.

2. When I call out to Ping, Heidi will run to me to be the first to reach me and does "body block" Ping... while growling silently, head low and body is stiff... hearding Ping away from me. (This applies to food and toys as well... Heidi's treatment to to Ping.)

3. Jump onto the bed to sleep uninvited and pretended she is couldnt hear/see us when we ask her to get down (I resort to body block her when she tries to jump and she gets bounced off)

4. Heidi is a typical shoe polisher... now she literally ignores my husband as he couldn't control her. She ignores him when he calls out to her... except with food in hand.

These are some easy examples. Why Heidi does not do those to Sebastie and Tea? Cause both of them were never a contender/threat.

What I did was.....

1. Barking mad issue. Apart from addressing her need for everything first. I bought an electric collar from e-bay..... Am I cruel? You may think so, I have a westie that can bark the house down. I tried scolding (which is wrong - shouting match), putting her on timeout chair (her punishment chair ie high stool) and it does not work. Even with the bark collar, Heidi will challenge it by barking softly and slowly increasing her volume to check if it is a dummy or if it is on. I feel it is whole lot better than to whack her and have a shouting match (which she thinks it is a game).
Plus I have a neighbour with a 6 months old baby.

Anyways, the barking collar has an adjuster that controls the level of power to be used. The trick is put it to the lowest first... and work upwrds if necessary.

This is so much better than de-barking my doggies. However, the collar serves as a punishment. After 30 mins of silence, the collar is off.

2. Now Heidi seats at the back of the car WITH ME. While Ping seats at the front seat.

3. When Heidi does her body block or misbehaves, I will put her on the time out chair and ignore her for 30 mins. Ignore meaning no scolding, talking, petting etc. As if she is not around. Dogs' worst punishment is being ignored. IF you beat/scold them, it is still reinforcement, tho negative, it is reforcement.

4. Make her work for whatever she wants. Heidi paws at me when she wants attention. Sweet? But it can be bad manners ie "PAT ME NOW!"... so I will ask her so SIT (or do any other trick)... wait for 3 seconds and then pat her if she does and wait. This is to instill some patience on the doggie. And helps you to be in contro of the situation. Same goes for food etc.

5. I will do the body block when she wants to get to Ping for a challenge.

There is so much to share on this topic. There are always issue on power struggle esp when the older alpha is "stepping down" and the up and coming young brood is more than willing to take its place. In the end of the day, YOU MUST BE THE ALPHA DOG.

Oh yeah, Patricia's book also teches you to see the difference of boredom/bad manners etc by doggies.

Highly recommended.

Sorry if there are any typos... m hungry and off 4 dinner!

Hey Heidi and marquis are siblings..... i think it runs in the family!


This post has been edited by teaspoon.t: Oct 22 2009, 07:41 PM

Wow, looks like you've done your research. Well, to be honest, I know Marquis wants to be the alpha dog. I know that. I do read on all articles posted in www.dogbreedinfo.com. It's a very helpful site and much recommended to any dog lover.

The dogs are probably sorting it out themselves on who is being the alpha. When I am around, I am the alpha, Marquis has to shut it (or he dies, literally). My dogs dont challenge me but they challenge among themselves. I am very strict with them but I would like the liberty to bring any dogs I want out of the house not depending on who the heck is alpha. I mean, I dont neecessarily have to bring 3 dogs out at a go. I could choose and I am not answerable to Mr.Alpha-Dog here. I'd rather slap him silly than to have him bark at my actions.

Honestly, I prefer Casper being the alpha male because he is more calm and steady. If you meet him, you will like him. He also doesnt go crazy when we introduce a new dog to the house. Moonie is the submissive one so I know she will never be alpha but she is the one that rushes to another dog if she sees a dog barking at us during our walk. Sort of like submissive to human but I-will-kill-all-other-dog Moonie. Marquis is the total opposite, rebellious, pirate, noisy and hamsap! Marquis is also very rough, like when you give him treats, some times he will accidentally scratch your hands. Things like this dont happen with my other dogs. Anyway, I know it's up to Casper and Marquis to work it out who is at the top of the chain! There's probably nothing I can do to readjust this arrangement.

Thanks for sharing the example with Heidi. No, I dont think you're cruel with the electric collar. I thought about it but I was looking for the collar that sprays lemon juice when the dog barks. Damn expensive at RM300. How much did you pay for your collar? And does it work? What's the brand? Can show the picture?

Actually, Marquis doesnt have any problems with the backseat, being last to eat or walking last during our stroll around the park. Some times, I think it's not about being alpha but rather about being annoying. Sorry, I cant meet all his needs about being no.1 in everything because I dont think he deserve it. He is the most ill-mannered among my 3 dogs.

I am getting a Husky and Golden Retriever soon, some time before Chinese New Year. I do hope my bigger but younger dogs will eventually pound some sense into Marquis.

Oh yea, I forgot Heidi and Marquis are siblings!

This post has been edited by Pennywise: Oct 23 2009, 12:28 AM

I made a lot of mistakes and learnt the hard way for since I was a kid... I m blessed with friends who are willing to share and pets who loves me enough to let me take care of them... we are still learning.

With Marquis scratching your hand (impatience) or barking mad when you are around is already a challenge... tho he is "fighting" with Casper for TOPDOG. That's what with Heidi and PIng... and Heidi will disobey me when I scolded her for barking mad or herding PIng. I didn’t know about that initially until I read those books.... those power struggles will have to be sorted out amongst the 4-legged true... however, if the Alpha Dog (i.e. you) does not tolerate impatience/fights/barks/noise/being annoyed... they will have to respect you for that... and will not do it at all or at least stop immediately whatever nuisance they are doing.

I realist for hyperactive doggies is best to work out their energy... (Ass Ceaser Millan's book)... it can by physical exercise... and it can also be brain exercise i.e. (teach Marquis tricks) as long as it works out the doggie... they will be more 'laid back" and not so high strung. I believe Marquis, like Heidi is very keen/fast to learn and pick up tricks... with a reward in hand i.e. praise (don’t just resort to food) and also try to teach him off least tricks i.e. (you wouldn't want the dog to see the Leash as the KING of the house). There are many tricks you can teach your doggie i.e. Amazon.com have a book on 101 doggie tricks to teach your dog. (yaya... I am internet surfer/shopper).

But please do read the books I recommended, for you a dog lover, I am sure you agree that getting to know what's going on in the mind of your pets will make you understand them better and will easily correct/condition situations/your pet better, for the sake of your pet and you.

Oh yeah... also do read For The Love Of A Dog by Patricia Mc Connell (same lady). It explains about the facial expressions/body language of a dog and also the enigma of what's going on in their mind. It also explains reactions/troubled dogs that bites/attacks/destroys/fear of store/hates children/men/being held by collar.... due to fear, anger, separation anxiety, impatience, simply bad manners, dominance etc. She writes about the behaviors and cases/examples of her experiences for each doggies within the categories and how to help them.... Also she made a distinction when the doggie sees you.... he sees you as his leader or his object? Hahaha... tricky.

The electric collar I get is PetSafe. I know there are cheaper brands around but I'd rather trust a good/reputable brand (5ucker for marketing). It comes with the battery. Once the battery is drained, you can get the batteries from e-bay. It lasts about 1 year.

Good luck with your furkids.

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Added on October 23, 2009, 5:14 pmI got 2 bark collars and it costs me less than RM500 (collar plus delivery from USA). You will just have to surf in ebay for the best bargin. Meanwhile, there is a distributor from Singapore that distributes PetSafe (dont know why somehow it is not commonly found in Msia... too expensive I guess). You may have a friend to help get it for you. Thanks!

This post has been edited by teaspoon.t: Oct 23 2009, 05:14 PM

Marquis doesnt challenge me directly, more like everyone else at home because he knows I'm very strict with him. When he barks at me, I will open his cage door and 'attack' him with the rolled up newspaper, in which, 99% of the time, before I hit it, he already avoiding and whining. Some times, I see also funny.

Yes, I know it's best to work out their energy, hence I bring them for evening walk most of the days. Even when I dont feel like going out for a walk, I will take a seat just outside my gate and let them run loose around the area. We live near a dead-end so it's convenient for me to do so and at the dead-end is a park, so I usually sit outside my house and let them roam free around the neighbours and park.

I just need to fix the barking issue with an anti bark collar and I think the rest would be fine. He will be the top dog against Casper as Casper and Moonie are more submissive, Marquis is more of a hooligan type.

Anyway, many thanks for sharing your experience and books to read. I will review them and see which to go with. Thanks again.

Wow, this dogs are so cuuuuuuuuuuute!

Hey there..I only have one westie..Simba..He is 2 years of age and very hyper. I am actually looking for a Gf for him..Can anyone help me out here?
Thanks alot..

there was someone here who does westie grooming right? i can't find the post at the moment though.

It seems like tis thread its like dying off , Let me post some updated pics of my westies that i took recently (The Sister & Brother Bear). I hope other westies owners out there will post their adorable westies pics up as well. If u haven took any of them recently, better go n do it soon n post them up over here ok . Cheers...












This post has been edited by larryho: Jun 14 2010, 04:28 PM

Hi larryho,

Wow, your picture certainly make this look alive. Just want to ask - How come your second row photos, the westie tail seems shorter than the other one?? Additionally, can share with us some pict of where they sleep?

This post has been edited by Pennywise: Jun 14 2010, 11:20 AM

Oh..u mean Casper's tail, his tail was infected by maggots earlier (cilaka) ...and tat time his skin infection was quite critical aso as I shared wit u all earlier..tat is why he was force to chop off the infected part becoz the tip of the tail cells & skin are dead. Sad story though, but his skin condition are improving now as u can see his skin has recovered quite alot. He really struggle alot tat time, poor guy...but he is really a kuat fellow lar .

Regarding the sleping area, they slep everywhere at home 1 lar. I dun constrain them to a certain area, as long as they behave...Im good as they do behave quite well to me. I do provide both of them a sleping bed, but both of them aso gila gila 1...sometimes they like to slep 2gether, sometimes they slep at their own individual bed, sometimes on the floor. There's juz too many "sometimes" lolz .

Anyway..do upload some of ur westies pics, so that it can make tis thread even more lively ....Cheers.

This post has been edited by larryho: Jun 14 2010, 04:30 PM

I see, forced to chop off the infected part, hopefully that is not too painful for him.

Sleep everywhere at home? Wont simply pee around? My 2 elder dogs have a place where they sleep, near the kitchen. Even unleashed, they would walk around a bit and go back to that area. My youngest is naughty with all the marking problems described above this page - sleep separately in a cage.

I have not taken their photos much lately. I will upload some once I have them.

hello.. here are some pics of my westie, Paris. I got her from Junnie. She's 5 months old now.





she hasn't got much fur .. is it because she's changing to adult fur? anyway i can do to make her fur thicker?

This post has been edited by renybee: Jun 14 2010, 10:09 PM

Nothing much you can do, let the fur grow and go to a proper grooming shop for westie cut. Most groomer dunno how to give it the lion-cut. Seapark pet supplies are ok.

Not sure if I am seeing things but the picture with the clothes on, make me think your dog is too skinny. Is she underweight?

This post has been edited by Pennywise: Jun 14 2010, 10:41 PM

Just brought her to vet 2-3 weeks back but the vet never mentioned that she's underweight. I'm feeding her 4 tablespoon twice a day. Is it too little? Should i feed her more?

Wow...another westie owner, welcome to the thread. To me, her weight is fine lar...u cant expect alot frm local breeder westie breed coz u'll hardly find a pure breed standard over here in M'sia...IMO lar. Look at my tweety, she looks skinny too..tats normal. Too me, most important is they are healthy and energetic which reflect their nature. Anyway...do you bring her out for walks or exercise?

Pennywise, mine wont do marking at home...they do it outside all the time. I adi mark my territory at home, so no more space for them to mark adi .

if it's normal then it's ok ya, she's healthy & energetic! haven't got the chance to bring her out yet cos she's only fully vaccinated 2 to 3 weeks back, will bring her out this weekend

Letting the dogs out everywhere in the house sure is nice but their fur also follow them everywhere.

My dogs live downstairs near the kitchen. That is the limited space for them and their normal time is run around the compound. Only the youngest got marking problem. May neuter him some time soon.

Yea...its better to bring them out for walks and exercise, U'll c good changes if u giv them sufficient exercise. They are animals, that is why its important for them to utilize their energy as this westies are quite hyper. If they dun get enuf exercise, they will divert they energy into other area which will end up to disaster to human.... . Anyway, just make sure u do it the rite way when walking with them, then u'll eventually enjoy walking with them very much. Its really good to hear that she is healthy.

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Added on June 15, 2010, 10:20 amHaha...itu biasa lar, dogs will sure have fur falling 1 lar if its long. Eh...i heard u got a husky as well rite, cant remember which thread i saw which u mentioned u got a husky...so how is the husky wit ur westies...are they doin ok 2gether?

This post has been edited by larryho: Jun 15 2010, 10:22 AM