You already know the good prospect of actuary. You think since you are not interested in maths, you may not like actuary. I've got news for you...my friend's boyfriend is into actuary, and no, it is not just maths. You better think twice about actuary. People that I know personally taking the course are loving it...for what reason? Lots that I'm not really well versed in. Anyway...

Question 1
a) Worldwide demand? No one knows. But in Malaysia, in high demand. Developed countries - low demand.
b) That depends on your skills.
c) Underpaid unless you have Part 3 and you're the Boss. Same thing overseas, but because of the exhange rate, it totals to very high pay. And when you come back, you'll be well paid due to your experience and portfolio and having the brand "Made in UK" (or Australia or US or wherever more prominent) - provided you are really good.
d) Good...I think. Architecture firms love to have people from all walks of life. From what my seniors and bosses had told me, lots of foreigners love Malaysians because we worked like dogs, very proficient in lots of software (due to high piracy rate where we can use and experiment with all types of software), multi-lingual (due to our rojak racial mix: English, BM, Mandarin, Hokkien, Hakka, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, etc.), we adapt easily with other people (due to our rojak culture), we perform under pressure (most Malaysians can drive while using their handphone and eating at the same time...), and of course, the one reason no one talked much about but is really important, we are friendly (most of us are...).

Question 2
a) No idea, but Malaysia is saturated with engineers dy.
b) You don't get to design independently in most cases. Architects are more independent in that they can design a building based upon their concept. Engineers don't. You work in a team and your design is always a combination of ideas...wait, not your design...your bosses' design. You can never get to design that chrome chassis you want so badly. At least as an architect, your house design is at your mercy (and wife's).
c) No idea...you'll want to go Germany for automotive industry. My friend did and he's earning Euro 4k basic at the moment.
d) Hmm...no idea as well...automotive...I know of other engineering fields that has high demand overseas lah, such as chemical and petro-chemical. But not sure about automotive. My friend in Germany...that guy studied there...

a little correction bout my statement.

I can draw, just not very good at it. Can i improve my skill since i'll be 18 this march?

Alright, it is time for reality TV!

I am prepared to die for the King "Architect" title!

Please tell me what are the scary (or you would rather call it the difficulty) aspects of Architecture during its study period?

Now it is time to try to scare the hell out of me and try to make me change my mind (which is definitely already firmly set in onto Architecture).

Come on, try to punch the bitter and agonizing reality of studying Architecture into me and try to open up my eyes to the non glamorous part of the Architecture education.

I am prepared to listen for the possibly worse of the woes I can even imagine I would be having in my Architectural education in the near future.

Azarimy/Clayclws, would you mind sharing a little with me? (Both of you have went through the hardships of the Architecture education and will live to testify about it!)

This post has been edited by Benjamin911: Feb 20 2008, 05:28 PM

a. there's no way to know for sure. just look at the world economy, then macro and micro economies in each country. from there u can derive some understanding of whether architecture has a future or not. remember that architecture is one of the fields most reliant on the economy. when the economy is good, they can be one of the largest money makers amongst the professions, but if economy goes down, they'd be the first to go.

b. it depends on what skills u have.

c. it is adequate. the starting pay is still pretty low, but after 5 years it should be good. by average my friends earn RM1800 starting pay (this was in 2001, economy is not strong enough after 1997 recession), but now their average is about RM3000, which is quite good, just after 6-7 years. if u manage to outperform ur boss and acquire a higher post in the firm, u can earn pretty high. the highest grosser amongst my friends is already earning RM6,700 working in KL. he's already setting up his own firm now.

d. jobs are everywhere. and u dont need to work overseas to exchange ideas.

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Added on February 20, 2008, 6:09 pmi'm not sure there is a really scary experience in architecture, for me, that could make anyone NOT want to study architecture. there are some really bad experience i could share with u, but i doubt it'll shake ur foundations.

i guess the most grueling experience anyone WILL go through is the crit. or the worst: the final crit/assessment/judgement/review. i dread every time i walk into the halls. some background first:

the crit (short for critique) is a presentation session at certain points of the project. early crits are just casual sessions where u talk about ur design intentions and stuff like that. u dont have a substantial design at this point, but u're brainstorming ideas infront of the class. i ALWAYS put the craziest ideas first, and most of the time the tutors arent open enough to accept crazy ideas. u progress through a series of crits along the semester until u present ur final finished product amongst 3 or more panel of judges. this is the make or break point of the semester.

u will be grilled like no tomorrow. every aspect of u and ur design will be scrutinized, from the approach u took, the idea, up to the font size u picked on the presentation boards. i remember this one time during my thesis, i was the last person to present. all other panels have finished their presentations, so the lecturers and architects are waiting for my presentation to finish before they can all go to eat. my original judges already have an architect (i forgot his name) and 3 other judges who openly critiques my designs.

then suddenly all the other judges, tutors and architects from 5 other panels came into my presentation bcoz they're waiting for me to finish. at that point there were more judges than students in that room. so i got smashed from every different angels imaginable. PM saari (UM), prof parid (LKW) and prof tajuddin (UTM and prominent writer in the star) were some of the loudest. in that situation, u can only hold on to what u believe in, and fight all u can. if u think debating amongst ur friends in LYN are challenging enough, try debating against 12-15 architects who're more experienced than u will ever be. and non of them backed me!

it eventually took 2 hours to finish my presentation. i know that one of the reason was because my thesis was a bit radically, labeled as an anomaly in the thesis group. but it was worth it. people know me bcoz of that day, the day i stood up against 12 architects. yup, i was totally spent after that, but i got an A for it . so it's totally worth it.

This post has been edited by azarimy: Feb 20 2008, 06:09 PM

senior,wat is current malaysia architectural scene?

i wonder if you guys read this book before? i just got it from local bookstore; have not got time to go thru it


This post has been edited by KVReninem: Feb 20 2008, 06:31 PM

i havent read it, but if u notice my post about the crit earlier:



that tajuddin is the same tajuddin who wrote the book . he is a prominent writer and critique in malaysian architecture, having studied numerous approach and the evolution of architectural styles, history and philosophy. i'd recommend his writings anytime.

okay boss, well lets see later; will read it up and post my finding here

azarimy,

That was certainly a pretty interesting experience for you.
_____________________________________________________________

Previously, I was very interested in Engineering actually...

However, the reason why I choose Architecture over Engineering was because I do not want to find myself getting stuck somewhere in my Engineering education later on...

Based from my past experience of solving Mathematical application problems, I realize that I could get stuck in a particular Mathematical application problem as long as I do not know how to solve it, such as forgetting the formula, or a particular systematic pattern of approach to the solution...This can be really scary as it can seriously hinder the progress, you would find yourself stuck in that position, unless you can find the solution to the problem! (It is either a know it and progress, or do not know it and get stuck.) The feeling is rather terrible when you continue to stare at the problem trying to figure out how to solve it, while feeling the pressure of time on you! (Knowing that you are not making any progress!)

Unlike Arts & Design, the thing about Science & Mathematics is that it is either black or white, either you get it right or wrong. (It is objective) Thus, I could spend an hour solving an application problem trying out everything that I know, but there would only be one correct answer/solution to it that I would need to know, or else remain stuck in frustration.

This is the reason why I do not dare to choose Engineering. (Which is very much about problem solving concerning Science and Mathematics!)

I do not have any experience with Architecture yet, but I know that it is going to be similar to the following example;

Designing a map for a strategy game has never been an easy task for me, and I often spend tens of hours to days on one single multi player map. (For some, I spend weeks on.) It includes many sleepless nights.

However, one thing is different, I have never got stuck in one place like the way I got stuck when solving Mathematical Application Problems. I am always progressing, I just need to work hard and be diligent in it. I could not even feel the time pass as I was designing those maps, suddenly, five hours can have passed when I glance at the clock. Admittedly, the designing process is addictive and indulging. No doubt it is stressful, but the end is always rewarding. (In the end, I get to fulfill my dream/vision!) (It is just something that I would want to do and without complains.) To put it this way, although it is hard work, I would feel that it is something that I would just have to achieve, and I would have to get to work at it to achieve the vision.

Architecture is definitely going to be much more than the above example, because Architects will be planning and designing complex buildings involving Science & Technology as well. However, I imagine the experience will be something like my above example, albeit in a more complicated and technical manner in the real world. (That is why Architects need to be Professionals!)

Am I correct in my wild assumption regarding the similarity of my map designing experience with the Architecture design experience in university?

Or have I got my imaginations dreadfully wrong about Architecture that it is going to get me seriously stuck in the mud?

Regards.

Regards.

This post has been edited by Benjamin911: Feb 21 2008, 12:21 AM

Ok, my biggest shock was first day in school. There I walked into a studio, all dirty, full of rubbish and chairs and tables were piled up everywhere...normal scene for a studio whereby seniors have graduated and leave every possible "loot" behind...That's not the shock. Then, came in our studio master, he saw the mess and said, "Hey, I have a wonderful idea. Clean up the studio by 2pm and use all the rubbish to come up with a design. Any design. Group up or you can work alone. Flatter or surprise me. This will cover 10% of your semester's design mark." Then he left. It was 10am. 4 hours...design? We haven't even learn anything about design. I'm always a performer...the one living up to everyone's expectation and always submit everything nicely done, complete and on time. This time however...I have no idea what to do, and my heart was pumping like mad...what the heck. Did I just sign up for the wrong course?

A few years passed, and I learned that in Architectural Education (note: education and not real life working condition), you only need to live up to your own expectation. Not everyone else's. Do the best you can and make sure you have reasonably high and doable ambition. Don't bother to compete. You'll only be disappointed if you fail to compete...Architecture is very subjective, so it's hard to judge whether you've done it right or wrong. It's not maths.

Like Azarimy said, crit session is the hardest. Usually there'ld be desk crits and interim crits as well. In UM, desk crits are done by the Studio Master and his/her cohorts of other lecturers and invited regular architects. Interim will feature external panel of more prominent architects. Final crits will have the clients (sometime interim does too), authorities and even more prominent architects. Studio master and lecturers will usually just sit back and watch you get crucified. The regular architects and external panel love to bombard you wih real world scenarios and this is where you learn the most

Not sure if that's difficult, but yeah...it is that difficult. Other parts like writing thesis, building analysis, measured drawings, projects, etc. will be incredibly hard for the first time around, especially measured drawing. But you'll learn to live with it and they would all be a piece of cake because they have right answers...more objective, if I must say so.

You asked about scary/difficult/non-glamorous parts in architectural education. The thing is...the scary part is not in the education. It's in the real life working world. I won't tell you much about it till you understand more about architecture...you'll learn about it in school and training



Erm...that's really hard to say. I've mentioned about the Chinesemen business model...and there are others. Planners stealing our roles. Authorities being a pain in the ass. Unethical architects, clients and contractors. Don't think Architecture as glamourous...it is not. It just seemed so. Work in an architecture office, preferably in KL, and you'll understand why.



You'll get stuck in designing as well. Where to put that toilet? Near the fire escape staircase? The smoke core? Hmm, how about that AHU? Wait, where did I put my chillers again? Oh darn, that's where the suction tanks are supposed to be. Hmm, where is my TNB? Oh no, the security room took it. Ok, let's put tat TNB near that servce ingress. Oh no, the rubbish truck can't get through, not enough turning space. If only I make it bigger...oh darn, there goes the MDF. Let's put the loading & unloading somewhere else...oh no~! The service lift can't be moved away. Cold storage blocking dead storage~! Aargh~! Where's the Imhoff tank? Oh no~! Blocked my basement carpark...oh wait...isn't there where I put my basement water pump? How come the exhaust fan room is there instead? Aarggh~!!!!

like clayclws said, being stuck in design is as hard as being stuck in maths. u need a solid creativity basis to navigate urself in design. designing maps may seem like a complex thing, being in 3D and all, but designing a building with components and dependent in 3D is not a simple feat.

just when u though u've solved one floor in plan, u realized that the next floor does not match the previous ones. when u start moving things around, u'll realize that ur building section does not fit the profile u intent anymore. then u start moving on in circle. the most dangerous thing in design is not being stuck, but not knowing u're stuck.

in maths, u know u're stuck when u cant progress towards the solution anymore. in design, u thought u're progressing forward, while in reality u're actually running around in circle. that's the time killer.

another important thing about design is that, everybody is a good designer. given enough time, everybody can produce an A scheme. the difference is, within the specified time frame, how far can u go? can u reach A scheme within 4 weeks? or do u need 6 weeks? in school, everybody is given the exact same timeframe. u work ur ass off to make sure u submit on time. when the bell rings, if u're incomplete, u're in trouble. in UTM, incomplete = total failure. u can still complete it if u want, but u can only earn minimum passing grade, which is C-.

now imagine the earlier scenario, where u thought u were progressing, but infact u're not... and time still moves on in a linear fashion...

ooo I'm in such a dilemma. I'd love to do architecture but I've been offered engineering at Purdue! Purdue seems to be everything I want, except that its engineering!! Mind you, I'm not totally adverse to engineering and I wouldn't really mind doing it but I guess this means giving up architecture?

i think you still go do engineering later come back do master in architecture? possible ?

Yea thats possible, though it will be a really really loooong time.

I heard that most mental cases are from architect fields. Is that true?

This post has been edited by Virgle: Feb 25 2008, 11:59 PM

Hmmm...I think that is depend on the person itself...stress and pressure control are very important to whoever and whatever field...I feel stress and pressure when it comes to submission but I can handle it wisely...a lot of things can be done...

Anyway guys, I find this article...maybe it was an old news...



This post has been edited by albirri: Feb 21 2008, 10:31 PM

clayclws,

Thanks man!

I really appreciate it that you can share some of your experiences in here.

Sometimes when I am designing a map, I will also encounter problems like the ones that you have mentioned. At such point of time, I would need to start making compromises...which can start making me feel rather unsatisfied...(Thinking that the perfection factor is already gone from the design.) One of the reasons why such problem can exist is due to limited space. Say I have allocated an area in a map with a fixed parameter for designing a city, I would just have to design the city the best I can with that limited space...(There would always be compromises towards the end...which are sometimes unacceptable...)

Map designing is basically just my micro experience in designing something Architecture like...

Regards.


azarimy,

Indeed, I have quite a number of maps that was never complicated due to those very factors you mentioned.

After spending a great deal of time and effort on a map, I would suddenly realize that something have gone very wrong...

One such example happened recently when I was busy designing a Tiberium garden high up on a plateau...After completing everything and feeling very happy, I clicked on a button for a framed view of the terrain and discovered to my horror that I have forgotten to heighten and level the terrain that the garden sits on with the high plateau. I realized that there was absolutely no way I could raise the terrain with the garden on it to match the height of the plateau, due to the fact that the raising of the terrain needs to be done precisely and manually. (The garden immediately started to mess and break up when I attempted to raise the ground beneath...)

Guess what I had to do to solve the problem? Yes, you got it right; I had to go through the painful process of removing every detail and do everything all over again! (Thankfully, the area of mistake for that particular map was not a very big one comparing to some of the areas of my other maps; which contains huge fully developed bases/cities! Imagine what would happen if I have made such a mistake on those terrains...)

Nevertheless, I would say that all of this are anytime better than getting stuck in Mathematical problems which I could do absolutely nothing about, other than trying to crack my brains on them!

Sometimes it is just good to make mistakes and do everything all over again, because you can never predict when a better idea will just come in.

My designs also improved when I attempted them again.

Regards.

This post has been edited by Benjamin911: Feb 22 2008, 01:36 AM

Oh well, I guess my hopes for studying architecture pretty much ends today. For the past three weeks I was 50-50 between doing engineering at Purdue or doing Taylor's+Australia architecture course. Today, a letter arrived in my mail, stating that I am the recipient of a scholarship from Purdue. Can't bring myself to turn that down can I? Maybe next time...

Hey azarimy, any ideas on the history of local architectural practice during the pre-regulation period? Before there were Architect's Act, UBBL, PAM and LAM... How did the architects cope? Who were the governing bodies then? etc. Even people in PAM have no idea... what the heck. Any books to refer?

well, too bad then . all the best!

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Added on February 22, 2008, 2:39 amwow... i really have no idea. not my cuppatea, if u know what i mean . i could tell u about architectural education and its history in malaysia, but practice? hmmm... come to think of it, i've never actually tied architecture education in malaysia to practice, which funnily enough it is SUPPOSED to be connected haha. thanks for pointing another gap in my knowledge!

This post has been edited by azarimy: Feb 22 2008, 02:39 AM

Aiks...ok. Need a few sessions of interviewing the old guards...sigh...