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 ICAP, traded price higher than NAV

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HJebat
post Sep 29 2014, 08:50 AM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Sep 28 2014, 09:26 PM)
Any1 going for d AGM @ KLCC on 11/10?
*
Are you a shareowner of ICAP?

If you are & intend to attend the AGM, bole kasi tolong satu favor ka? blush.gif
felixmask
post Sep 29 2014, 09:00 AM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Sep 28 2014, 09:26 PM)
Any1 going for d AGM @ KLCC on 11/10?
*
im attending 2014 ICAP Investor day;

http://invday.icapital.my/


wil-i-am
post Sep 29 2014, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(HJebat @ Sep 29 2014, 08:50 AM)
Are you a shareowner of ICAP?

If you are & intend to attend the AGM, bole kasi tolong satu favor ka? blush.gif
*
Yup n will attend d AGM
HJebat
post Sep 29 2014, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Sep 29 2014, 09:57 AM)
Yup n will attend d AGM
*
Tolong take note what TTB will present regarding the dual-listed global fund & the free warrants attached to the fund.

Then share share with me, ok ka? blush.gif
vaksin
post Sep 30 2014, 10:27 AM

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not going... busy with work but wanted to go..
plumberly
post Oct 5 2014, 05:28 PM

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Looking at icapital to invest.

If my memory cells are still ok, I thought I read in the newspaper on a problem in icapital last year (takeover?). Please let me know if you know what it was.

Many thanks.
felixmask
post Oct 5 2014, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(plumberly @ Oct 5 2014, 05:28 PM)
Looking at icapital to invest.

If my memory cells are still ok, I thought I read in the newspaper on a problem in icapital last year (takeover?). Please let me know if you know what it was.

Many thanks.
*
iCapital.biz future at stake
http://www.thestar.com.my/Story/?file=%2F2...ess%2F12283765&

You see him give talk meanz someone failed to get rid of him


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

plumberly
post Oct 5 2014, 07:18 PM

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QUOTE(felixmask @ Oct 5 2014, 06:24 PM)
iCapital.biz future at stake
http://www.thestar.com.my/Story/?file=%2F2...ess%2F12283765&

You see him give talk meanz someone failed to get rid of him
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Many thanks.

What are the 2 best and 2 worst things about icapital?

No dividend until recently?

Cheerio.

This post has been edited by plumberly: Oct 5 2014, 07:26 PM
felixmask
post Oct 5 2014, 08:36 PM

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QUOTE(plumberly @ Oct 5 2014, 07:18 PM)
Many thanks.

What are the 2 best and 2 worst things about icapital?

No dividend until recently?

Cheerio.
*
follow Warren buffet style aka Berkshire Hathaway..capital appreciation.

This post has been edited by felixmask: Oct 5 2014, 08:37 PM
nexona88
post Oct 6 2014, 08:33 PM

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if I'm not mistaken, icap "sitting on huge cash piles". the Tan fellow waiting for Market correction since 3 years ago.. Now I think may come true..
HJebat
post Oct 8 2014, 11:40 AM

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I fancy TTB's approach to invest:

1. Load up investing war chest

2. Identify high value targets

3. Wait for the right moment

4. Ready, aim & fire every round he has in his ammo

I think at this moment, he's taking position #3. When it's time to engage in combat, it's going to be one shot-one kill bruce.gif
Boon3
post Oct 8 2014, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(HJebat @ Oct 8 2014, 11:40 AM)
I fancy TTB's approach to invest:

1. Load up investing war chest

2. Identify high value targets

3. Wait for the right moment

4. Ready, aim & fire every round he has in his ammo

I think at this moment, he's taking position #3. When it's time to engage in combat, it's going to be one shot-one kill bruce.gif
*
Do not agree.

You are giving him far too much credit.

Last December, market consolidated a lot.

No discounts then?

What did he do?

He did nothing and sat on the cash and for this fund, I dare say that he will continue to sit on cash.


Boon3
post Oct 8 2014, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Oct 6 2014, 08:33 PM)
if I'm not mistaken, icap "sitting on huge cash piles". the Tan fellow waiting for Market correction since 3 years ago.. Now I think may come true..
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If you want, read back from the past 3 pages.

Icap has been sitting on more than 100 million cash since 2010!!!!

You can refer this writeup also and see that the percentage cash even increased the last 2 years!!!!!!

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kianweiaritcles/61168.jsp

Some people sit on cash...then wait for opportunity to make money.
ICap? My opinion is no.
Life is good now.
Reputation is there already.
He will not risk his good standing by employing iCap's cash into the market.



Boon3
post Oct 8 2014, 04:22 PM

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This is what's the best

A year ago and you can refer to this posting: refer posting #458 and star business link:

http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Busines...tly-overvalued/

That was last year.

And in the posting => refer posting #414

The data shows that iCapital has been sitting on more than 100 million cash SINCE 2010.

Needless to say, the data in that posting ALSO SHOWED HIS INCREASING FEES....

Hardly any shares bought...

Sit on what was bought prior 2010... and then .....

Year in, Year out says MARKET OVERVALUED...

YET.......

Year in, Year out MARKET GOES HIGHER AND HIGHER......... doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif

And what does he do this year?

He says this the other day: http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Busines...global-markets/

( Is even worth attending his INVESTING talks? rolleyes.gif )

( See his face, plastered all over RAPID BUS.... doh.gif Who pays the bill? doh.gif)


ZeaXG
post Oct 8 2014, 05:50 PM

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The comments I read in this thread reminds me of this quote from Warren Buffett

The stock market is a no-called-strike game. You don't have to swing at everything — you can wait for your pitch. The problem when you're a money manager is that your fans keep yelling, "Swing, you bum!"

I kinda pity TTB. He's doing the right thing by staying in cash, but the market does not think so... thus the market discount to NAV.

This post has been edited by ZeaXG: Oct 8 2014, 05:52 PM
Boon3
post Oct 8 2014, 06:57 PM

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QUOTE(ZeaXG @ Oct 8 2014, 05:50 PM)
The comments I read in this thread reminds me of this quote from Warren Buffett

The stock market is a no-called-strike game. You don't have to swing at everything — you can wait for your pitch. The problem when you're a money manager is that your fans keep yelling, "Swing, you bum!"

I kinda pity TTB. He's doing the right thing by staying in cash, but the market does not think so... thus the market discount to NAV.
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No!

It's not comparable.

You can stay cash...no problem.
But the very fact is he opted for strong cash holdings since 2010.

This is the undeniable fact.

While he stayed cash...
He kept on repeating every year market over or no value.end result every year?
Market kept on going higher each year.
And each year, while he sat on his bum, he collected more cash via his fees! doh.gif

Paid to do nothing....
Just mumble market over value each year.

Sounds OK?

This post has been edited by Boon3: Oct 8 2014, 06:58 PM
Boon3
post Oct 8 2014, 08:46 PM

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Do I feel pity for him?

No I don't.

Refer posting #458 again.

I highlighted the fees by posting the snapshot from the annual report.

This was the snapshot from that posting...

user posted image

And from posting #478

QUOTE
Now this one is the best.

From 2009 annual report, his fund management fee is 1,747,606, investment advisory fee is also 1,747,606
From 2010 annual report, his fund management fee is 2,018,550, investment advisory fee is also 2,018,550
From 2012 annual report, his fund management fee is 2,894,863, investment advisory fee is also 2,894,863
Latest annual report, his fund management fee is 3,089,891 investment advisory fee is also 3,089,891 <====> WOW !!!!! increase lagi!

Total fees for 2009 is 3,495,212
Total fees for 2010 is 4,037,100
Total fees for 2012 is 5,789,726
Total fees for 2013 is 6,179,782 !!!!!!!!!!

OMG!!! Every year.... fees naik !!! doh.gif


Now I free.

laugh.gif

I decided to take a snapshot of the fees issue.

Drum roll.......................................... please.

user posted image

Total fund management fee is 3,109,491, investment advisory fee is also 3,109,491.

Total fees is now................... 6,218,982 !!!!!!!

Pheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewit !!!!!

brilliant eh?

So if he DARE to collect more and more and more fees from the fund each year while maintaining the market is over valued EACH YEAR since 2010 (last year he said "Shares on Bursa Malaysia are not cheap… many stocks are overvalued at present,” - source: http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Busines...alued.aspx)..... why should I feel pity for him if he gets critics highlighting what he's doing exactly?

( ask many investors.... wasn't it a fabulous 2013? and 2014? How many investment grade shares rocket to the moon? Inari no good? Not an investment grade stock? Last year, one could close eye and buy Inari at below 70 sen nia.... What's the high this year? oh wait, Teng Boo said many stocks are overvalued last year! )


Side note:

When I was making that snap shot of his fees he whalloped from the fund...

I noticed the ADVERTISEMENTS expenses.....

The previous year, 2013, the fund spend 20,975 on ads.
For 2014, the fund spend 708,202 on ads!

708 thousand ????!!!!

What the ...................... ????

Major face palm time!

doh.gif doh.gif


OMG!!!!!


Come on....

this is a bloody closed end fund...

what's there to advertise?


I cannot believe it really.
TTB said shares overvalued last year.
So instead of buying shares, he spends 708 thousand on ads!

Then I remembered.......................

His face..... on RAPID buses all over town!

OMG!!!!!

The fund is putting good use of those extra cash!!!!










shocking.gif

This post has been edited by Boon3: Oct 8 2014, 08:48 PM
suizharbor
post Oct 8 2014, 08:48 PM

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people dont understand the meaning of holding cash. holding cash is not equal to do nothing.

icap is holding like 70%ish cash.. if im not mistaken berkshire held or holding 80% cash also.

ttb may be not performing the best but he still doing good, if you look at longer history.

the problem of icap is ttb just too conservative. all because of his reputation. like wb says "It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently."
reputation and investors interest, he chose his reputation.

SUSeksk
post Oct 8 2014, 08:50 PM

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how much you put in his fund.. complain so much ...
Boon3
post Oct 8 2014, 08:58 PM

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QUOTE(eksk @ Oct 8 2014, 08:50 PM)
how much you put in his fund.. complain so much ...
*
Eh?

What kind of question is this?

This is a PUBLIC LISTED CLOSED END FUND.

It's not a private fund.

As long as it is a PUBLIC LISTED company, anyone has the right to view and make comments about the fund.
Are you suggesting that I keep quiet just because I don't put any money into his fund?

laugh.gif

Staying cash is always acceptable.
But when the market keeps going up and the fund manager adopts the strong cash policy (mind you this cash policy was adopted since 2010!) , clearly the fund manager is wrong.
Is it wrong to highlight this issue?

rolleyes.gif

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