Every one will has his/her own definition of success in investment.
I had emphasized that it is my own definition.

Of course, Ali Bapa will be his own definition of success in investment @ 3% p.a.

So have you been Sucessful?

Now, I know why someone here talk to u like that!

For stock investment, I rely on ICAP, I can't do it myself!

Yess....all my investmnets can be liquidated when ever AND

REAL returns are based on the ability to do that..........can you?

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Added on August 24, 2012, 2:43 pmic....that explains why you bought the fund....good thing you didnt buy his other two funds!

International Value Fund


1 July 2009............31 Jul 2012...............% Change

A$1.000................A$1.0052...................0.52%



International Global Fund


6 July 2007............31 July 2012..............%Change


US$1000.000...........US$1035.72............... 3.57%

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Added on August 24, 2012, 2:45 pmi suppose in the IVF one still gain from the AUD rise....BUT for the IGB.........USD has been down since

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Aug 24 2012, 02:45 PM

Using your definition of success, a 15% cagr over 10 years and with ichap only in the 7th year, icap, by your definition, should be considered only as a 'almost a success' la.

prophetjul: Impressive! Well done with your investments.

prophetjul, does have a point you know, so do you.
Yes, to calculate the CAGR for the NAV is important. It tells how well the fund is performing.
However, as prophetjul has pointed out, you cannot sell at the NAV price, you can only sell at the market price. Hence, for the fund investor, knowing the CAGR for the stock price is just as important.

This post has been edited by Boon3: Aug 24 2012, 02:53 PM

Not yet ler..........still learning a lot.......

Nowadays compared with 1989, so many more ways to skin that investment COW
or should i say BULL?

From a FM point of view, ICPA is judged at NAV, not by some Tom, d*** or Harry's standard on the share price movement.

Can't liquidate ICAP for 18% presently will only give you the problem, not to me and other long term investors.

This post has been edited by kinwing: Aug 24 2012, 03:04 PM

Of course, I can liquidate anytime with cost @ RM 1.15, haha, better than your performance lor!, dude!

Whats a FM?

How do you know it wont give 'long' term investors problem? What IF the manager kicks the
poverbial bucket? Lotsa risks........

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Added on August 24, 2012, 3:12 pmHow do you know about MY performance?

Aaahhh you bought at RM1.15.....thats even less returns...

You wanna have clue about my performance, read my sig....

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Aug 24 2012, 03:12 PM

Unforeseen circumstances should not stop us from holding long term stocks, or else we should not have invest in the beginning because we are so scare and shit hell out by the power of 'unforeseen circumstances'?

Discipline value investors do have plenty of time to wait and plan for stock disposals at least at par with NTA/NAV/intrinsic value and not to mention if one could sold at premium and can simply avoid to dispose at cheap price. Value investors are always not in a hasty mode of disposing shares especially during bear market, then it should not be a problem to trade illiquid shares with a longer time horizon. If someone claims that an emergency situation to raise cash urgently will raise the liquidity problem for those illiquid shares, then he should blame himself why he put short term cash to buy shares or why he does not prepare some cash buffer instead of blaming the discount for illiquidity? It's always somebody else's wrong but himself.

Furthermore, a liquid share does not guarantee the investor can sell at an attractive price, so it further proves that there is a risk an investor who needs cash urgently might just force to dispose shares at cheap price irregardless the shares are liquid or illiquid. Please take note that liquidity is not an issue, in fact the investment time horizon does matter.

Now I come back to the fact that someone might try to justify that the fund should open up the dividend policy in order to rectify the discount issue. So when investors receive the cash dividend from the fund, it is up to them to allocate the fund and normally they will just re-invest the fund by acquiring additional units if the fund is outperformer. However, don’t forget that ICAP is a close-end (“CE”) fund, it is not like the open-end Unit Trust (“UT”) fund that can issue new units to get fresh proceed if those unit holders re-invest the dividend. For a CE fund, once it distribute cash, it has less proceed to invest and whatever the re-investment decision made by unit holders has nothing to do with the CE fund, and thus the dividend policy greatly reduce the speed to accumulate wealth through the fund and thus defeat the objective of setting up the fund. (Note: This is why even the UT fund always encourage the unit holders to automatically convert the distribution into new units cuz it knows the distribution of cash will lower its efficiency to grow the capital).

If I would be given a choice to grow my capital of RM1 to RM5 after 10 years (inclusive dividend and capital appreciation) through a UT with dividend policy, I would rather to go for a fund with no dividend policy that can grow my capital from RM1 to RM8 though the fund’s NAV is RM10 which means it trades at 20% discount after 10 years. So would you go for a UT which can only grow its NAV to RM5 in 10-year time so you can redeem your UT at NAV of RM5 or you would like to put your $ in a CEF which can grow the NAV to RM10 but traded at a discount of RM8 in 10-year? No prize for the right answer .

I also don't know if it won't give 'long' term investors problem, so I don't generalise facts like you that illiquidity will give 'everyone' problem which could your own perception. For me, I will take the illiquidity risks by enjoying the illiquidity premium.

No, I am not interested to read your sig. You have your own fantasy, I have mine .

ALO...........You just did GENERALISED the longterm investors...........




And the reply was not to you about me sig.......and its NOT a fanatsy, but a million reality......
AND i am enjoying it!

Unforeseen circumstances can be scare the shit in your pant if it really arise, imagine one day your spouse/family member admitted into hospital and medical bill can be easily cost a bomb, would u lend money from bank at 10% interest or continue with your long term investment?

Regarding the previous post, the market must have a willing seller and buyer, but problem there is no willing buyer at NAV price when u want to sell, so i do think growth should be calculate at market price instead of NAV. This is the trading business mechanism in real life isn't it

P/S : Normal investor like us do not know what hide beneath, NAV is useless when the market price below on it. So it is feasible to judge by its market price

This post has been edited by yhtan: Aug 24 2012, 03:53 PM

You still do not get me. When shit happened, whether your shares traded on par, above NAV below NAV, traded in liquid or illiquid will not matter, because you may not be able to get the amount of disposal proceed you wanted at that moment because of your wrong timing in disposal.

So why blame the fund of which is not cater for you only? Yourself has nothing to blame because you are trying to liquidate your investment at a wrong time? Why you don't have any other emergency fund instead of relying your fund of which supposed to be ready lock-in for long term investment?

Instead of blaming your poor financing planning and so you should try to improve on that, you blame on liquidity. Put your own fault as somebody else's fault is an easier way out, isn't it?

This post has been edited by kinwing: Aug 24 2012, 04:03 PM

No interest about your investment.
It is only a keyboard warrior boosing about his investment return.

Win or lose, what finally you get, keyboard warrior?

A "million reality", haha . I am enjoying in reading this also, why not you spending your time in making your 'million reality', it worth more your effort and time instead of b****ing how ICAP is inferior than you at this thread that TTB might not even aware of this.

This post has been edited by kinwing: Aug 24 2012, 04:07 PM

You guys have a REAL funny way of expressin yerselves and contradicting in the next breath!



i dont need to get anything.........i have enough......

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Aug 24 2012, 04:12 PM

I better stop this, waste my time to reply to u

U can write anything boosing about your return and it is up to readers to believe it or not!

Good luck, keyboard warrior!

This post has been edited by firee818: Aug 24 2012, 04:36 PM