To me, both spiders look equally matured to me. Neither too dark nor too light. I also think that certain time of the day they fight more actively.

Oiyo...damn fierce man. Your 3 spiders all also very fierce type. So now i only have 2 spiders that can match your spiders, bighead and bigguns.

Yeah this type of leave is very rough but suprisingly fighting spiders like them. I used to catch a lot of big spiders in these type of leaves in my grandmother housing area. Hence whenever i see them i sure think there must be spiders.
Wah, i think your whole area kena comb by you alone.

Your pandan looks really hurt with its gigi one gone. Spiders use their gigi to push also, so with one gone will be difficult.

Some of my spiders getting old i think, esp topman. Cannot fight well already... always lose to bro1 and other spiders. Anyway i am letting my spiders rest a bit for a few days.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Feb 18 2008, 05:29 PM

Is smacking a mosquito which is trying to suck your blood more cruel or 2 spiders wrestling for less than 5-10 seconds more cruel? One has its guts spilled out (even though all it was trying to do was do what God/Nature intended it to do) and the other(even though lose) gets to breathe, eat and have sex for another day.

Is
1) cutting the heads of cricket to feed sugarglider
2) feeding live baby mice/chics to snakes/pacman frog
3) mealworms to tarantula
less cruel?

I certainly hope you're vegetarian when you mention about cruelty... for every bite of meat you take is a result of some animal being slaughtered for your pleasure. When i say this, almost everyone would counter saying," But food is a basic need..." I would say, "Yeah? Because you need protein right? Then just eat eggs...complete amino acids. Don't eat KFC, McDonalds, seafood etc(in other words, go vegetarian) because that would add more suffering/cruelty by killing more animals in this world". Oh yes, that goes to any dog/cat you're keeping too if you do have them as pets.

Other than what i have said, I think viper said it pretty well.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Feb 19 2008, 01:54 AM

Hai..sorry this week cannot la...got wind that my auditor coming round soon, so go lots of checking to do. I'll certainly let u know if i go down Ampang and am free. Btw, your Archilles look really healthy... ready to smack down.
if u free to come near here then also let me know la...

ok, here is wat i did during cny. My story a bit back dated sometimes cuz my sis borrowed my camera with my pics inside and also no time to post immediately..hehe.

As i said, i wanted to verify wheather really or not spiders in kelapa sawit so geng as some ppl say...so during 5th day of cny i think i drove from port dickson back to seremban using long way through old roads...just to get to the kelapa sawit plantations, i started around 1 pm... here is my exploration

first place i stop near some forested area where certain areas cleared...got monkeys and even though found some nice leaves but no FS. The place i looked for got no monkeys...but further about 100meters up i saw a group of monkeys...maybe 30-40 of them...better not find there, those male adults monkeys can be pretty fierce...


then i stop near a rubber estate because got some leaves which looks conducive... got la...a lot of young ones but after finding for half hour...cannot even get one male....sigh... so i moved on... at that time also very hot and the area looks dry



Ah, at last i saw a kelapa sawit plantation nearby and went there...
the ground all over got fallen leaves...usually snakes like to hide under there...
the type of leaves i look around also got FS but only small ones... cannot even find one adult...haiz....so i carried on my journey after about 20min of searching. The leaves look scanty and not worth exploring further...


...got to go through a dug ditch to get here and to get back to my car. This area the plantation owner didnt put up fence but dig a deep ditch to deter people like me from transpassing...


i drove on, all the while looking at the floor of the plantation to see if the leaves are FS type... alot of the plantation have ferns...wont be able to find them there. Also got many areas the floor quite dry and barren...sure nothing... so i drove and drove
wah...after driving for about 15min, i saw a nice area...it is lower than the road like about the height of a double storey house... so i went down....no other human in sight.....
Wow...the leaves look perfect. I noticed the long leaf plant which climb up the kelapa sawit... those usually FS like.



..a look up to see where i am...

...a big earwig...

even got small stream with nice leaves growing beside...


So i got to hardcore finding, using all my skills i have over the years to intensely find the elusive "kelapa sawit" large fierce spider.... After almost 45min, i found MANY MANY young(30-40 maybe)!!! and 1 adult female and only one small adult male...aiyah....really really dissapointed...

Anyway, it is CNY, no plans that afternoon, wife already working... so i continued to walk further in.....
wah i reach this large drainage area where the stream originated, the area looks brighter and got water source, leaves also look nice....looks like gold mine...

a look back to see where i stand from the road...notice the road railings far far away on the left of pic...

Yeah...within 5 mins i step close to the wall of plants, i found a male....which i named kelapasawit.


I saw lot of other critters here too.. like crickets(lots of them) that seem to nest in these type of leaves rather than the ground, and also a type of BIG yellow fly...sure tarantulas like them

..saw this nice spider...looks like family of golden spider/spider besi(as viper call it)...

Anyway i spent quite a long time here...probably close to an hour and a half...
In the end, i only took back one average male spider(kelapa sawit) and a big female spider(hopefully to mate with bighead but until now still dont want to mate, i think pregnant already)
i got catch another 2 small male but i let them go after fighting them there with kelapasawit...short fight only

sigh... hard to believe what is so great about kelapasawit plantation....
maybe got other people go there catch, or maybe wrong season...those numerous young maybe in time will become adults...

anyway while walking back suddenly hear got dogs barking...shit.... got dogs from some nearby isolated house....the dogs saw me from an area higher than where i was standing... i bend down... the dogs also cabut...haiz...even the dogs here kecut...lucky me....so i headed to the nearest town for some food...nearly 4pm leow

here's a pic near where i ate, notice the type of plantation i explored in the background


Anyway i got stop here and there abit to explore but no luck... 6pm late already got to go meet some frens for dinner.

I think wheather kelapa sawit or not doesnt matter. I am sure some kelapasawit area got fierce FS, but so does housing area like where viper found Archilles, or where Mangrovejumper found Bighead. I found no proof to think that kelapasawit spiders is any different from other conducive areas. The 2 males i let go is just like normal kecut males... nothing special. That's wat i think from my exploration that day. Hopefully i will find time again to go other kelapasawit areas to try again...

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Feb 20 2008, 02:16 AM

yeah, i also got thot of asking orang asli to catch fighting spiders for me.. but dunno where to go.

yeah, i also also think the estate looks a bit cultured. But then again, if too wild, fighting spiders also may not be abundant there. As mangrovejumper have mention before, he hardly can find FS in middle of "hutan belantara". I too have tried, very very hard to find... can find also not big. If the place is too wild, i think FS find it hard to survive esp the young. Lots of other predators can eat them.

Actually, a lot of fighting spiders are found in plants planted by human beings. Fighting spiders actually survive better in areas where humans dwell nearby. That's why they were once so popular in primary schools.

I even remember once as a kid i found 2 medium large males in a "kum yam" plant in my neighbours house which is actually under the awning of a car porch. Means it is not even expose to rain. The nests are actually almost touching the car door when the car is parked. My neighbour take cares and water his plants everyday, so even there also the spiders make nest, which i really didnt expect.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Feb 20 2008, 07:21 PM

yeah if got camera show us la...
otherwise tell me where u stay, i got average size male also....

No la, she is not there in scarycat vs pippy video.
She is in this video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o86QCRubKik

wah, u got 2 batch of eggs now.
Actually no need to separate. She wont eat the eggs unless
1) you dont feed her for more than 3 days
2) you tear open her nest
But i guess you dont keep ur spiders with live plants, so she must have laid them in the leaves which will soon dry up. Then i think you separate. But dont open the nest, because i think strong light might somehow spoil the eggs. Then keep them in box for about 1 and half month... no guarantee will hatch cuz i also still finding out....

Here's some pics i took last year...can compare

Virgin female


Pregnant female


Just after laying eggs... abdomen looks a bit kemet


This post has been edited by mindstorm: Feb 20 2008, 01:57 AM

FUIYO, far out!!! Spartan won! Incredible fight!! ONE OF ITS KIND, man! I have never seen a fight that arm lock for so long. Like 2 fighting fish mouth to mouth lock. I can see Spartan was like a human tactical fighter, can see him pulling and pushing Archilles as well as swaying side to side, and Archilles in large reacting to it. Holy cow. He even tipped Archilles at one point.

I watched this video like 8 times before i write now. Viper, your spiders officially hold the longest lasting fight record!
I used my stopwatch to time and it was about 46 seconds. I started from the moment of arm contact. (They touch first and waited like one second before jaw to jaw contact)

Good thing you got it on video, while not very clear, it is not too bad. Clear enough to experience the drama.

Archilles is aggressive, Spartan even MORE aggressive what more given that it is smaller than Archilles. After such a long fight, he still aggressively chase after Archilles off the stage, causing Archilles to "thiu lau"(jump off the building).

You really choose a name that suit him. Spartan is probably gonna take top place. The ultimate fighter. One more fight just to confirm... that's with none other than Bighead.

Superb one, viper!!! Yeap, one of the best fight i've seen in my life.

PS, did you train them?

---

Added on February 21, 2008, 12:23 amNo lah. Kelapa sawit is only fifth king. His size is actually slighting smaller than Bro1. So cannot compare to Biggun.
He lost to Bro1 but gave good fight.

Bighead
6leg
Bigguns
Lowland(swapped i think also)
Bro1
Kelapasawit
Topman

Small chop
Small chop is category on its own.


This post has been edited by mindstorm: Feb 21 2008, 12:23 AM

Surprised to know Spartan and Archilles had their legs injured in the fight as i couldnt seem to see them biting legs, maybe during the tipping. Mostly I see them jaw to jaw. Bet there is a lot of grinding of teeth.

The fight reminds me of watching UFC, when the fighters lock each other up on the ground...each trying to manoveur their way to get to an advantaged position.

Giving water melon juice, wah... new to me. I must try on my spiders too. Hope they dont get diabetes.

Here are some backlog fights to update.

Lowland is half chop now. Check how he fights. No long fights but pretty aggressive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzyYj7AZt4

Bighead LOSES! Twice! to 6 legs.. and short fight only!
Looks like Bighead may be losing it...

From first fight, we can compare their size.



But second fight is right after Bighead mated(with a third female)! haha! I am really pushing his limits....
Third fight shows Bighead is still no pushover. But from this fight you can see how disadvantage being one arm is.. you always get attacked on your weaker side.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuFNvCG63K8

As of writing this that was the last fight between Bighead and 6leg. 6leg looks weaker after the last fight. I scared another fight might fatally injure him.

SORRY guys. Bigguns is DEAD. I found him dead yesterday in the water in the bottle where i place my plant. I dunno why. When i found him, he was still fully intact but limp. His stomach was medium fat. I am wondering wheather drinking the water may have killed him. Cuz the water quite old. But i have been spraying fresh water everyday at least 2 times a day. Really sad.

The bugman of Youtube, Sigma1920 replied me... he has some videos you may like to see too.
If you're reading this, Sigma1920, thanks pal.

-------------------
From: sigma1920 [videos (261) | favorites (210) | friends (1)]
Sent: February 20, 2008
Subject: Re: Jumping spiders

hi, nice to meet a malaysian guru of spider-martial-arts!

as far as i know, we have two kinds of traditional spider-fightings in jpn.
in kantoh area (central jpn including tokyo), they usually use males of the jumping spider, Carrhotus xanthogramma.
that spider-fighting is called "honchi" in local dialect.
here is an excellent example footage (not by me).
http://videocast.yahoo.co.jp/video/detail/...230376151749500

in kyusyu and shikoku areas (southern jpn), they use females of the black & golden garden spider, Argiope amoena (orb-weaver of the family Araneidae).
a few years ago, the national geographic channel made a documentary titled "samurai spiders" featuring an annual tournament of that spider-fighting. (i have never watched it yet, though.)
here is official rules.
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~hi2h-ikd/asjap...spiderfight.htm

looks like u have plenty of interesting vids.
i am gonna watch them all when i have time.
and i would like to make more vid clips of fighting spiders, too.

cheers!


Original Message:

> Do you have this in your country?
> http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/608348

Sad to hear Archilles gone. I think Archilles died because attack by another spider.... small tiny ones that sometimes roam about in the house. It is very small and can move very fast. Of cuz i'm not hundred percent sure but how can web be wrapped around its abdomen by himself? Never in my life have i come across this.... like X-files. But i do think some small spiders can be very deadly to other spiders/insects. And they can crawl through the openings in your container.

Most of the spiders i kept in my adult life, when they are going to die, I would know. Usually they stop eating and move slowly. They also seem to become blind and do not respond to an insect nearby. Usually in a few days then they would die.

We must remember FS are small creatures. And most small creatures esp insects/spiders don't live very long. Eg. fruit flies only live for about 45 days, bloodworms gnat only live for 3-5 days in adult life.
I am still not sure what is the normal life span of a FS but probably like you experienced, about 1 year for FS in adult stage.

Anyway try not to keep your spiders too near corners of cupboard/boxes...

When you said female you kept with Spartan laid eggs, it may not be Spartan's brood cuz you din really see them mate right?

WhitePalace... if you see the pics on the top of this page you can see my spider 6leg. When i found him, he already only has 6legs. So yes, injury of FS in the wild is pretty common. I also have one pic of a FS with 5 legs found in the wild. Plenty others i have seen with one arm less which i didnt bother to catch or show. I also have seen adult FS being eaten by other spiders although not so common. I also have seen half-bodied(abdomen gone) FS in a nest...dead of cuz. When we keep our spiders and fight them, lost of legs is very very rare. It is much easier to catch a FS with already legs gone than to see a fight that cuz them to lose a leg.

The truth is in the wild being eaten and eating others and fighting is actually common and normal. When i catch them to see them fight, yeah, on one hand you may say i cuz them to fight, on the other hand, by keeping them i may have saved it from being eaten by some other predator. Predators of a small spider like that is plentiful in the open. Can be cicak, small iguana, other spiders, wasps, preying mantis, ants(an army of big ants can rip a spider apart in no time) etc.

here's an interesting clip about selective breeding...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmkj5gq1cQU
i wanna achieve that with FS!!

Nice... time to orientate it ....with ur spartan

Bighead is past his prime. Worried about him cuz he no longer so active. I didnt fight him for many days now. This morning i let him see female...still excited. But didnt mate cuz female unwilling.

I wanna breed FS because i enjoy playing with them so much and want to preserve the good fighter genes. Everytime we catch a good fighter, we have one less in the wild to breed with other females in the wild. So if like that, slowly the wild will have less good fighters. As i mentioned before, I also want to do it for the challenge since i cant find any material where people have bred and raised jumping spiders. So it is more or less as a hobby. Don't we do what we find interesting? Also out of curiousity to know wheather FS fighting behaviour can be passed down. For plakat(short tail fighting fish) and many other fighting animals, it has shown to be possible. Since in my humble double storey terrace house, i have only enough space to breed small animals, so FS is a good choice...but honestly, even if i have big farm land, i would also try to breed FS...hehe. Commercial purpose? Dunno la... since u know so few people find them facinating. But for me, i like them alot and will keep on with playing them, even by myself. But of cuz, got more kaki more excitement.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Feb 27 2008, 02:46 AM

Chops(male or female) are fighting spiders that do not display the usual combative stance commonly seen when faced with an opponent. They launch a grappling attack almost instantly upon contact, often pouncing from a distance at the enemy. They are known to be difficult to breed because they attack the opposite sex too. So can they mate?

Ok..that's wat i wrote on youtube. hehe...here's the clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic3PkoLOPC8

Comments: Nah.. i didnt get the chops to mate. But from the clip you can see chops still possess the sexual drive. They do seem less "skilled" at trying to mate. Compare to normal males, they seem to "quiver" less and seem to be less determined/active in trying to mate than the normal male. It is important to place the chop and partner under bright light if you try to mate them. As we have previously encountered, under dim lighting, chops won't hesitate to attack whatever is moving which include the opposite sex.

Another goal of mine for the FS! To mate a chop and to see wheather the next generation are also chop!

Right now we think that chop is either a disease or learned behaviour. Whatever it is, it is a force to be reckon with in the world of FS.

Here's an article i wrote about chops way back last year on 19/03/07.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Feb 27 2008, 04:25 AM


Attached File(s)
 chops.txt ( 4.17k ) Number of downloads: 21

SHOCKING...

The following footages are meant only for hardcore FS players.

From what you are about to see, I find it hard to think that that is lowland. I remember lowland as not very aggressive and certainly not strong. But here we find a different force.

Before we look into the dark side of FS, we go through some history first...
These are some past fights of lowland when i first caught him and before i gave him to viper. I didn't post the clips cuz they're just short fights.

24/01/08
1) Lowland(won) vs topman
2) Bigguns vs Lowland(lost) -round 1
3) Bigguns vs Lowland(lost) -round 2
4) Bigleave vs Lowland(lost)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8XKgOHzoo8
Comments : The last clip show that lowland lose to bigleave only very short fight.

Here is the first shocking video today. Lowland vs bigleave. A very fast fight. You would think bigleave won...but if you watch it in slow motion or you repeatly watch it, you'll see the lighting speed of lowland and unbelievable tactic it uses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCl9Y1vViNs

Because of this fight, i think that this may not be lowland and the spiders were not swapped when viper and i fight Lowland and Noname.
Here's the controversial clip as i mentioned before.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_1DGXuRDyo
Noname(left) actually moves backwards(when it is not chop) when it "chap ma bo". But the pastclips above shows that lowland actually moves forward when it "chap ma bo".

This is the head pattern of lowland(left) in one of its pastfights(3)

Here is "lowland" today

Of cuz you may say head pattern may darken, but certainly not lighten as we can see lowland from past fight actually has 2 streaks running from black half(front) of head to abdomen whereas the "lowland" i'm holding now has no lines touching the abdomen. Again, because of this I think this is actually Noname.

But now I renamed him as Jack... Jack the ripper.

Why? The second SHOCKING video will tell you why... Jack vs 6leg... as per your request, Mangrovejumper....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFmmAnYaKHI

And the aftermath..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd-jmq7RuGI

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Feb 27 2008, 04:32 AM

Jack size is about bro1 size, maybe slightly bigger. Yes smaller than bigleave and much smaller than 6leg. He is more compact, arms thicker...
Kelapasawit actually quite small...maybe kecut already...

I reviewed the Noname vs Lowland fight many times. What happened is that Noname (left) chopped first and send Lowland back, then Lowland counter chop and then push Noname towards the middle of the leaf. Lowland's back is then towards the edge of the leaf. Then Noname chop back again and Lowland scurried backwards towards the edge of the leaf and went under first followed by Noname going after it...
After that we just can see one spider facing left side... and the other one dropped

Looks like the last part is that lowland was running away backwards...and dropped after it went under...
I also watch my camcord frame by frame...

I also remember Lowland as more lanky, but Jack is very compact and tough.

Also, circumstantial evidence is that I did not get any other good fighters/chops from the place i got lowland.
Bigleaf, Thickarms(let go already), and several smaller males all not good fighters.
But from where i got Noname, the place is where 6leg, smallchop originated. I also caught a very healthy chop there last year.

Ok, the bad news...
When i came home yesterday nite, 6leg....
I actually could not believe my eyes when Jack treated 6leg like a fly!


Bigleaf is in bad shape but recovering. He looks shrunken and thirsty but ate a big Drosophila today.

As of today, Jack has not lost a battle. Should i test him against Bighead?

yeah, against a normal tough fighter like Spartan, it is hard to say a chop(if same size) can win...

HOLY *%$#!! DAMN, JACK DID IT AGAIN!

This is THE MOST DANGEROUS FS i have seen in MY life and i tell you, i have seen plenty.

My apologies to you, Mangrove Jumper, but this encounter(it's not even a fight... it's more like feeding time) is as fair as fair can be. Bighead was charging forward. Don't think it is luck again man with this second time round.... horrific deadly technique.

Jack(right) vs Bighead(left)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NneYbMGFHBg
Comments: A split second encounter. If you call it a fight , then its a truly truly short fight, but a truly truly deadly one...

The aftermath...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYrpYYbe_bw

I do think Bighead will live through this... hopefully...
This will be his last fight....

-------

Viper: Of course I did NOT let them fight again. 6leg was not moving when i check on him after coming home. Just before i left for work(about 1/2 hour after the fight), I saw there was a bit of liquid in his case where he was crouching...he was still bleeding! I gave it water and hoped for the best...nothing i could do more....

BTW - should we have Spartan vs Jack?