Wah, very nice places u went too. Like the pictures a lot. Pandan leaves always make me think of FS. Seems like u also found wild pepper plants there. And plenty of shade. Very conducive for FS. Eh...looks like people's house backyard.. no one come out to ask u wat u doing ah?
Anyway, sure looks like a lot of FS there. But all the ones u caught cannot fight? If they are big size then worth keeping for a while...maybe most of them still young. Or they are "dai sui pao" like some people say..big spiders but cannot fight. Hard to say. Maybe try training them.

F1 vs F2 fight quite ok. But yeah,..looks like a bit slow. In the begining, I thot the left FS(F1?) is chop..walk slowly...but then not chop. They look thin...feed them the fly u catch...then become strong and big like Hope!

Anyway here's a clip between Joe and Topman. I tried to rank Topman. Joe was the weakest of the top 5 i have. But looks like Topman got a beating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yc7O_xezvE

Bro1 looks like has turned chop. Now i remember, before the record time match between Bro1 and Kelapa sawit where Bro1 for the first time exhibit chop behaviour, the last fight Bro1 had was with Jack on around 10/03/08! The one where he got trashed gaugau! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO09UnObWvQ
Almost 2 weeks later on the 23/03/08 it fought the long match with kelapasawit. So yeah, looks like chop behaviour did spread to Bro1 after all. Here he is doing it again on Fairman(..for training)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9AsQFW_rZw

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Mar 28 2008, 02:39 AM

I notice one thing about FS population and their fighting skills. In our developed environment, there are many pockets of shrub area which are quite isolated. If these area is not too small, then FS maybe able to survive and breed there. However because they are isolated, their gene pool is small and siblings may mate each other which will weaken the species. I realized these areas FS not so fierce. Example are areas in PJ(where i got Bigguns, Topman) and some areas in Puchong(where i got Bigleave, Lowland). But where i got Kelapasawit and Bighead, 6leg, Jack, Joe ...they are from a vast area. Maybe it is just like sportsmen... the bigger the country is, the more likely u're able to find world class sportsmen. More people, more selection, more probabilites. It's a numbers game.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Mar 28 2008, 02:38 AM

nice thread...almost like a science journal. nice nice

I never play this when i was small...never occured to me nor my town buddy funny...I'm from sarawak.

Well, some question like to ask.......or for pondering.

did all the chop spider have same physical characteristic?(colour?marking?general size?)

area caught?

wat about no-chop one?

maybe different species different behavior?

then maybe from there can see is from gene? I think shud share some physical characteristic if same species

will try to catch some FS during holiday as I at unisel LOL. so rural area.

Nice thread/ journal: maybe can published as book when find out something more eh mindstrom?

one more Q how does a spider bandar/ spider besi Look like? course the one tat i normally see in my town at sarawak is at home one. which is a jumping spider have hair and don't have long leg, brown fur. always jump to eat prey

Ya.. tat place is at behind people's house. Kinda "terbiar" lotsa mosquitoes there.. found some females FS and baby FS there. Didn't dare to go deep into the leaves.. scared got snakes or centipede.. lol.. just search at the outer part nia..
Nobody come out so quite okla.. when i leave tat time got an uncle come out but he didn't ask me anything.. maybe he thought i just use short-cut behind the house

Yeah.. the FS1 is quite average-small size like Kaizer. Its also a better fighter than FS2 and FS3. Only lost to FS4 today.
FS1 quite strong and likes to chops during fight.

This morning after some light exercise, i let my FS fight again Too bad i'm working nite today, if not can meet up with Mindstorm to fight with his CHOPs FS.

Fuoooah.... lotsa fierce and exciting fight. Damn kao compare to last night fight.

1) FS1-FS2-FS3-FS4 fight each other. ( FS4 won, next is FS1, FS3 and FS2)

2) FS4 vs SplitFire (FS4 won..size bigger ma)

3) Nexus vs FS4 (Nexus won! exciting fight)

4) Scorpio vs Nexus (Scorpio won. Fierce fight!)

5) Hope vs Crossfire (Hope won. Very fierce fight! Hope Chop Crossfire at the start face-to-face and fight close to the rear platform. I have to use my hand to extend the plaform so the FS don't fall off! Both FS like wanna kill each other and bite on each other arms! Lotsa tight grabs and roll like ball coz both FS chop each other even kena lock tight and try to breakfree.

Crossfire injured quite badly..very weak after the fight )

6) Kaizer vs TopSparring FS(Kaizer won! Very fierce fight! The sparring FS same size/slightly bigger is quite a good fighter, its able to give some fight earlier to Kaizer but Kaizer was just too fierce and strong FS. Kaizer chops its opponent many times and bite tight its opponent arm. Both FS like not moving for quite some time and the TopSparring FS look like died already coz its leg like all shrink in. After like abt 5-10 secs, the sparring FS arm torn apart when try to ran away and fall down the platform. Shortly later it died. FATALITY.)

Damn...the dead FS is the top among other sparring FS i have. Its a better fighter than Shortarm.
I really didn't expect it will die from the fight VS Kaizer coz its quite a good fighter.
Can see in the video, the FS fight quite well.

I've released other 4 sparring FS including ShortArm.

All the fights video for this morning.:
Link: http://download.yousendit.com/A5BF96934E46EF19

Now my FS ranking.

HOPE
CROSSFIRE
XINAN
XONAN
SCORPIO
NEXUS
KAIZER/ FS4 (both havent fight each other yet)
SPITFIRE/ FS1 (both havent fight each other yet)
FS3
FS2

Some of my FS are damn fierce in fight.

Cheers,
v_viper88

This post has been edited by viper88: Mar 28 2008, 11:47 PM

Wa.. Looks like Joe is a fierce fighter. Joe wack Topman till knock-out pengsan? The fight is so short. Either Joe is too fierce or Topman is just too weak.

I also not sure about the chop is a disease or its a natural fighting instinct develop by FS to survive in fights.
I see most of my FS tat involves in fierce fight normally will get fiercer and fight better.
Some of my fierce FS tat i trained fighting in their nest also display more frequent chops to force its opponent out.

Some of FS like SpitFire and Kaizer are already very fierce and likes to chop alot when i caught them.
HOPE, CROSSFIRE, XINAN, XONAN, SCORPIO and NEXUS also are good fighters but now getting much more stronger and fiercer.

FS tat likes to chop alot are more interested to kill/dmg its opponent instead if fighting..

In Kaizer fight vs TopSparring FS... Kaizer attack with chops and do arm pushing at first but later on keep launch strong chops and tight lock attcks to weaken its opponent.

Maybe CHOP FS is like vampire/werewolf . kena bite will become one like them oso..
I noticed some common changes of behavior of my FS those which either fight with chops or win/lost to other fierce normal FS..after sometime the FS become kecut for few days without any good reason especially those tat won.. like HOPE, CROSSFIRE.. see female FS oso scared and ran away very fast? Later the FS become super fierce and change fighting techniques.. more chops attack.

Xinan and Nexus case are abit different.. even lost in fights, both FS not kecut easily.. still can fight other weaker FS and win .. later after rest 1-2 days both the FS become much stronger and can fight very well. Maybe the FS want to revenge back on their earlier fights losses.
Kaizer lost to Nexus few days back.. today.. it wack its opponent kaw kaw.

Last time got one lyn forum guy says his FS lost to a chop FS and never recover its confident even after few weeks/month.

I think some FS which have strong fighting will get recover fast and become a more experienced and fierce fighter.


Cheers,
v_viper88

This post has been edited by viper88: Mar 28 2008, 11:54 PM

Wa.. ur KelapaSawit underside abdomen looks very muscular n strong type.

I oso check my top rank FS.. i see those average-big size FS have darker colour underside abdomen.
I think if the colour is darker, its skin maybe harden and stronger skin shell. Maybe the FS is fully matured already?

Cheers,
v_viper88

chops doesn't have different markings but usually they tend to be more matured spiders, so there is a tendency to perceive chops to be darker in color or have a black head(matured spiders are darker). However as u can see Jack is chop but looks normal color and i had one called blackhead which was never a chop.
Jack left, Blackhead right

Chop is a behaviourial trait, not a morphological one. So no, they(chops) dont have same physical characteristics which one can say that FS is a chop for sure just by looking at it.

Last time, my friend and I tend to believe chops are usually caught in dirty places(lots of mud on the leafs) or they are found out-of-the-way nest. Some believe they dont make nest but just lepak under some leaf or found wandering. I think these perception comes about simply because chops usually are quite rare. So when one is found, there is an instant attachment to the place/situation in was found by the catcher. More or less psychology of the catcher. As for the area as a whole, it is difficult to mark any area as a chop area. And where chops are found, the area dont seem to be different than areas where no chops are found. But i do believe if a chop is found in one area, usually there are more within the same area.

no-chop one can be found in any FS conducive area lor...

We are talking about the same species of spiders when we refer one as chop. Just that they dont show angry face before fighting but attack straight away.

Maybe gene is involved. But we theorize that it is either disease(where a agent is involved) or just a learned behaviour.

Hope u catch some and show us some pictures.

I still am not sure wat is a spider bandar as this name was never used by me. Unless viper show me a spider bandar life then i will know. Different people tend to use different slang names for jumping spiders in our country. Haha!
I think spider besi(also never used by me)=mangrovejumper. I used to call it golden spider cuz of its color. U can see it on the first page of this forum.

Best u show us some pics of jumping spider u see. More close up better. Then we can agree on ONE name...

Anyway thanks for taking an interest in this forum, hoahmaru56.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 19 2008, 02:19 AM

Wah, viper..ur FS fights getting more and more brutal. Until death. Mine also , Topman already dead next day.

Hope vs Crossfire is very violent. Both also do not want to bow out humbly. If u continue to fight them so often, I think Crossfire is next to go. Better keep them for a few days before fighting.
Nexus vs FS4 and Scorpio vs Nexus pretty good matches. Nice manoveuring and chopping.
Wah, i see u fight ur FS more and more these few days... while i fight them less and less. Getting ready to meet u mah..hehe.

All ur new FS lose to the ones u keep could also mean one thing. Well-fed, well-taken-care-of and trained FS are tougher and fight better than newly wild caught ones! haha!

New blood!!

No la, not bloody fight. I mean got new spiders la... .

This is the place i went to. It was on a slope with a drain. Banana trees with long sharp leaves plants.

It was raining when i reached the place around 4.30pm. Damn. I slept in my car till almost 5.30pm. The rain wasnt very heavy but will still soak u wet if out long enuf. Anyway i was cursing in my car for my bad luck. I didnt want to drive back cuz i know it is horrendously jam out there. It was also quite dark with all the rain clouds. Anyway by 6 the rain subsided to very light. Aiyah, dont care, just go and find. Wah..i think this must be one of most productive catch. In one hour, found 6 males. Somehow the rain actually made me come to this place because got parking near here. If no rain, i might have stop somewhere else.

Here are the 6 males and their nests.

1st Male - DirtyFace(small but look like chop, mature male)



2nd Male - New Arm(One arm shorter than the other, probably broke the arm before change skin, i think cannot fight)



3rd Male - Longman(Biggest one today, same or slightly bigger than Jack...new challenger, but still young)
Saw its big shadow through the banana leafs. It was actually sharing a very big nest with ants(to the left of second pic)



4th Male - Quietblue(Blue color, in cantonese we call it Lam pao, and quite tame)



5th Male - Justine(Just changed skin, can see its legs still pale orangy colour, 2nd biggest)



By the time i caught Justine, i was out of containers. I was holding a bag with Quietblue in it and Justine in a container without a cap(i dropped it).

Then i saw Jumper, trying to mate a female. Aish..one hand only how to catch? Anyway, somehow i caught them and put both male and female in another bag....

6th Male - Jumper(keep jumping when i tried to take its photo, most matured male)



This post has been edited by mindstorm: Mar 29 2008, 02:37 AM

Ya.. my FS are getting much fiercer. Since cant fight with your FS yesterday... i let my FS fight.. just to practice oni.
I only let the strong and healty ones fight.

This morning i check on Crossfire, one of its leg fell off ady.. Maybe its leg got stuck in its web and came off. Yesterday after fight, no broken legs or arms. Its other 2 legs oso still injured and have difficulty to walk properly. Injured quite badly fighting HOPE. I fed it with a light bugs.. hope CrossFire can recover faster.

Great FS catch u got there... more challenger for my FS.



Cheers,
v_viper88

This post has been edited by viper88: Mar 29 2008, 03:20 PM

This morning went to Gleneagle Medical Centre for my leg physiotherapy
After tat go look for FS behind army/police camp nearby GMC there... coz tat area got lotsa leaves.

Search tat area for abt 30 minutes and i managed to catch 4 male FS!
3 average size male FS and 1 young size male FS.
One of the average size FS quite dark in colour and look ganas.
The other 3 looks quite ok oso.

Here's today catch.


No time to let the new FS fight 2day coz i've to rush 2 work. Maybe tomorrow will fight the FS coz i'm not working.
Now i got alot of FS. 16 male FS all together..

Hope some of the new FS are good and strong fighters.

Cheers,
v_viper88

Perhaps you're right that it's not a disease, but I doubt you can get it from just from training. Training your male FS doesn't explain why they lose interest in females easily. Often they would rather push the female than try to mount her. Training doesn't explain why true chop FSs do not show an angry face. Mindstorm's Joe is a true chop...he doesn't give a rip about frightening the other spider away with an angry face. As a matter of fact, he is more likely to show a kecut face (bringing the teeth up to partially cover the face)...Mindstorm can probably confirm.

All your spiders fight very well. But the only chop you have that I can see in the clips is Kaizer. The others are not chops, regardless of how they stay in fights, do arm locks or chops while fighting.

BTW vampires/werewolves were once (falsely) thought of as the blood disorder: porphyria. The chop attribute, instead, looks similar to behaviour of animals with rabies.

Questions I have for Mindstorm are:
1. Is a chop less likely to roam around during the day to look for females?
2. Does a chop have a shorter lifespan as a nonchop FS, or is it about the same?
3. Do they behave the same way as normal FS in their daily activities? E.g. Bed making at night and keep the nest clean by dropping food scraps and excrement off the edge of the nest, etc. It will further explain the mental irregularities of a chop FS.

My neighbour got told me before tat the strongest FS he played last time was found near swamp area leaves.
The FS tat caught at that swamp area are very tough and fierce. The 2nd strongest FS are caught from KelapaSawit leaves.
I never got any chance to see or catch FS from these 2 area so i'm not sure whether true onot.

Heres a female spider Besi and a male Spider Bandar pics.

Female Spider Besi


Male Spider Bandar


Male Spider Besi is more stronger and got a "+" mark at its abdomen.
Its skin oso looks like tough keras type.. like tank body.

Male Spider Bandar oso a tough killer. Its body got black and white stripes, abit brown colour and muscular type.
Don't get mix up with the Spider Pandan black and white stripes. Spider Bandar got longer legs and abit brown in colour.

Saw in Tasik Titiwangsa.. a male Spider Bandar size like 50 cent! Damn big and huge.. scary.
Also saw before a male Spider Besi like 20 cent!.. got big teeth... tat time when i'm searching for normal FS.

These 2 spiders will alwys chop and kill other spiders for food. I've fought my FS with these 2 type of spiders before.
If face to face fight FS still can win. If FS kena attack from bhd.. sure die 1. Ya..i let my FS fight these fierce spider as part of my FS training last time. My FS oso fierce type and likes to chop and kill these spiders as part of its food.

I see only some of the FS got the killing behaviour like Spider Besi and Spider Bandar. Most of the normal FS just fight and let its opponent run away.
Only those really fierce FS tat can fight and at same time want to kill other spiders.

Maybe some of the normal FS fought with Spider Besi, Spider Bandar or other similar type of killer spiders before. Got infected from the bites attack and later become a killer spider oso.

Maybe some of the FS are natural born fighter and killer as well..

Cheers,
v_viper88

---

Added on March 29, 2008, 10:38 pmHmm.. i think u haven't see the video HOPE and CROSSFIRE fight yet..These 2 FS chop attack at the start and keep on bitting each other fiercely without letting off. Both FS still show angry face and short fighting stance position but when near its opponenet.. it will jump and bite! No longer arm pushing at the beginning.

Xinan and Nexus, SpitFire fight with alot chops attack more but still got some arm pushing abit. Partial chop??

I don't bother much about the FS don't show angry face onot.
Some FS like SmallChops, Kaizers also show different fighting stance at the beginning.

For me, chop/partial chop FS
- launch chop attack at the start of the fight
- launch alot of continuous chops attack in fight
- want to kill/injured its opponent badly
- not much arm pushing

From my basic FS training, after sometime i can see HOPE also try to chop a female FS from the side.. later after see the female FS properly face2Face, its able to show the normal mating behavior. Same goes to Crossfire.

Kaizer i really dunno.. i put female FS.. Kaizer oso chop the female FS kaw kaw.

Train FS fight in nest only makes it fiercer to chop more instead of standard arm pushing.
Some fierce FS will kill its weaker opponent when fighting in nest. Not all FS can become very fierce fighter if continue fight in leaf/nest..some still fight like normal.. but those strong ones will become more and more aggressive if there are alot of fights in their nest.

I feel if FS alwys face alot of threats either from other FS or other enemy try to invade its nest or territory.. it will become very fierce FS.
I also think different types of leaf and habitat environment will also affect the FS fighting ability and technique.

Some ppl says that the strong and fierce FS don't make nest and always move from one place to other place.
I dun think like tat coz most of male FS i caught also inside their leaf/nest. The male FS make nest but will roam out in the day time for food or look for female, it will back to its nest when the weather is too hot/raining. I feel even CHOP fs oso need to make nest for shelter and protection from ants etcs..

Cheers,
v_viper88

This post has been edited by viper88: Mar 29 2008, 10:38 PM

Found this other FS species fight video while browsing YOUTUBE tonight.

HOLY SHIT... the female FS fought for about 5mins++ !!

http://www.youtube.com/user/saizd0580

http://www.youtube.com/user/goldgoldcat

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=marco8603&p=r

Also got male FS fight!!
http://www.youtube.com/user/williamchan04


Those FS fights are not as fierce as the one that me and Mindstorm posted here.. hehhehe.
If fight sure our FS will win..lol

Cheers,
v_viper88

This post has been edited by viper88: Mar 29 2008, 11:50 PM

Aish...there goes ur Crossfire.

---

Added on March 30, 2008, 1:04 amHehe there's where i went to catch too before.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Mar 30 2008, 01:04 AM

I didn't see close enuf to notice wheather the teeth were up, maybe cuz i am holding the camera, but yes i have seen that action before many times from chops. It is a deceiving tactic.

I agree that the only true chop is Kaizer..other viper FS probably partial chop. Chop is something we define as not showing angry face but yet fight fierce. But as i play more and more with FS/chops, i realize that there is many grey areas. An example is Redleaf, a chop convert. But not strong enuf or fierce enuf in fights. Jack, healthy chop. Jack, 6leg and smallchop all try to mate females. Also viper has many spiders that are non-chop but fight damn fierce.

1. Need a study on that. But i did notice at times Jack is pretty restless and roam for a long time in its container.
2. Need a study on that too. My guess is chops don't life shorter or longer. The don't seem to have any disadvantage in terms of finding food, shelter. If a chop live shorter, it would only because it tries to fight a bigger fiercer male and get eaten or injured badly. Running away is important for survival too...
3. Jack, smallchop, Joe still make web between 2 surface. And also they do excrete away from nest. The classic chops are the drunken ones we used to catch and took note. But as of last year, i caught a healthy chop which change some of my perception regarding chops.
I will take closer note on their daily activities to see any other differences. As of now, I didn't notice anything significantly different between chop and non-chop apart from the way they start a fight.

Also, as i will post later... some FS which i thot would be chop by their appearance, way they move and place caught, turned out not to be. An Example is Blackhead. Another one would be Dirtyface. Kecut!

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Mar 30 2008, 12:04 PM

OMG!! Hongkees are at it too. Fantastic find man. Yeah, holy cow, their FS endurance is tremendous. Maybe because in colder country. They fight slower too. Walao, their male FS arms are damn long compared to their head and body. Looks bigger too. I wonder wheather i can try to get some to bring back to Malaysia!

Here is another HK male fighting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJuF08emM7Y&feature=related
Very funny commentary..hehe.

Here is todays fights for my new spiders. FS on left is winner.

newarm vs quietblue(very short fight)
newarm vs dirtyface(kecut)
jumper vs newarm(short push)
jumper vs justine(just touch)
longman vs jumper(1 chop)*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDU9jcpPcQ4

In the end only one spider worth keeping...Longman. And here is how he broke through the top 5 ranks. Joe is out...for good.
Before Longman, ranking is

1. Jack
2. Bro1
3. Kelapasawit
4. Redleaf
5. Joe


1. longman vs joe(gasp)*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUlZPG6fyUc

2. longman vs redleaf(triple chop)*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2kqw8dMUks
Triple chop by redleaf hardly moved Longman. But great tactic from Redleaf for a safe escape.

3. longman vs Kelapasawit(no show! just a short push!)
no clip, cuz got disc error..couldnt convert the file. Kelapasawit will seems to have been broken by Bro1 since the last fight. But then again, Kelapasawit's head is smaller than Longman. Seems that non-chop FS, when fighting against bigger opponent, can sense it and usually do not want to waste energy continuing. Bro1 used to be like that. Fight against same size or smaller fighter like mad but no show to slightly bigger FS. Now Bro1 is different...

4. bro1 vs longman(good fight)*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N03zQ3fYIIs
Bro1 really rocks in this fight. Bro1 head is smaller than Longarm. I doubt bro1 can win Longarm given another week.

---

Added on March 30, 2008, 2:20 amChop female!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsYZsm4j1Jk&feature=related

marco8603 seems like fanatic like us. Still currently uploading clips on youtube.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Mar 30 2008, 02:20 AM

Viper:
Kaizer is a chop. Let me know if you manage to mate him with a female.
The earlier video clips of Hope and Xinan show that they are not chops. Perhaps you managed to convert them recently. The newer clips don't show the early fighting stance, so I can't tell for sure. They are all very good fighters.

Mindstorm:
Bro1 rocks! He is worthy of an epic tale on his life. Early on he got walloped kaw kaw by the bigger FSs, but now he is a grizzled veteran who can hold his own and has won many great battles.
It would be easier to track the development and maturation of your spiders if you can standardise your clip titles. Include "spider name vs spider name, Date" as part of the title. Winner on the left side.
Will Longman get a shot at fighting Jack when he recovers? Or will you save his butt?

Spider bandar and spider besi look like different types of house spiders.
Spider besi looks like the big females we caught in Seremban that were kecut when facing the big spider star female.
Spider bandar looks like Plexippus petersi:

I have never been able to fight them partly due to the constant jumping of the spiders and they fact that they're not very fierce. Regardless, they would be food for the Bavia.
Should show viper a golden spider male some time if he hasn't seen one. Beautiful spider.

The HK clips are not bad. The Thiania there look bigger than what we have, but they are soooo sluggish. I assume they mostly fight females because the fights last longer. Female fights can last forever inside the nest, man. I agree there seems to be a partial chop female in the clips. Should try to get them to opine here if they don't mind posting in English.

Yesterday found a big FS from pandan leaf further down my house. Its big.. bigger than all my other male FS.
The other earlier FS i caught from Gleneagles and my house nearby only
3 can fight abit.

The new FS rank from size
Hades - Big
Trojan- average size
Raptor - Big
F1 - small

Hades defeated Nexus in a fierce fight. Nexus initiated alot of chops and later both FS grab and lock each other like a ball and roll abit.
Nexus leg injured. Too bad my HP video hang ..

All the new FS not so fierce type.
Dun like really want to fight.. just short arm push or just one chops..
When put in leaf.. can see they fight more fierce abit.

Heres's all the videos

Link: http://download.yousendit.com/D927627D57D67A2F

Cheers,
v_viper88