Aish...there goes ur Crossfire.

---

Added on March 30, 2008, 1:04 amHehe there's where i went to catch too before.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Mar 30 2008, 01:04 AM

I didn't see close enuf to notice wheather the teeth were up, maybe cuz i am holding the camera, but yes i have seen that action before many times from chops. It is a deceiving tactic.

I agree that the only true chop is Kaizer..other viper FS probably partial chop. Chop is something we define as not showing angry face but yet fight fierce. But as i play more and more with FS/chops, i realize that there is many grey areas. An example is Redleaf, a chop convert. But not strong enuf or fierce enuf in fights. Jack, healthy chop. Jack, 6leg and smallchop all try to mate females. Also viper has many spiders that are non-chop but fight damn fierce.

1. Need a study on that. But i did notice at times Jack is pretty restless and roam for a long time in its container.
2. Need a study on that too. My guess is chops don't life shorter or longer. The don't seem to have any disadvantage in terms of finding food, shelter. If a chop live shorter, it would only because it tries to fight a bigger fiercer male and get eaten or injured badly. Running away is important for survival too...
3. Jack, smallchop, Joe still make web between 2 surface. And also they do excrete away from nest. The classic chops are the drunken ones we used to catch and took note. But as of last year, i caught a healthy chop which change some of my perception regarding chops.
I will take closer note on their daily activities to see any other differences. As of now, I didn't notice anything significantly different between chop and non-chop apart from the way they start a fight.

Also, as i will post later... some FS which i thot would be chop by their appearance, way they move and place caught, turned out not to be. An Example is Blackhead. Another one would be Dirtyface. Kecut!

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Mar 30 2008, 12:04 PM

OMG!! Hongkees are at it too. Fantastic find man. Yeah, holy cow, their FS endurance is tremendous. Maybe because in colder country. They fight slower too. Walao, their male FS arms are damn long compared to their head and body. Looks bigger too. I wonder wheather i can try to get some to bring back to Malaysia!

Here is another HK male fighting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJuF08emM7Y&feature=related
Very funny commentary..hehe.

Here is todays fights for my new spiders. FS on left is winner.

newarm vs quietblue(very short fight)
newarm vs dirtyface(kecut)
jumper vs newarm(short push)
jumper vs justine(just touch)
longman vs jumper(1 chop)*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDU9jcpPcQ4

In the end only one spider worth keeping...Longman. And here is how he broke through the top 5 ranks. Joe is out...for good.
Before Longman, ranking is

1. Jack
2. Bro1
3. Kelapasawit
4. Redleaf
5. Joe


1. longman vs joe(gasp)*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUlZPG6fyUc

2. longman vs redleaf(triple chop)*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2kqw8dMUks
Triple chop by redleaf hardly moved Longman. But great tactic from Redleaf for a safe escape.

3. longman vs Kelapasawit(no show! just a short push!)
no clip, cuz got disc error..couldnt convert the file. Kelapasawit will seems to have been broken by Bro1 since the last fight. But then again, Kelapasawit's head is smaller than Longman. Seems that non-chop FS, when fighting against bigger opponent, can sense it and usually do not want to waste energy continuing. Bro1 used to be like that. Fight against same size or smaller fighter like mad but no show to slightly bigger FS. Now Bro1 is different...

4. bro1 vs longman(good fight)*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N03zQ3fYIIs
Bro1 really rocks in this fight. Bro1 head is smaller than Longarm. I doubt bro1 can win Longarm given another week.

---

Added on March 30, 2008, 2:20 amChop female!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsYZsm4j1Jk&feature=related

marco8603 seems like fanatic like us. Still currently uploading clips on youtube.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Mar 30 2008, 02:20 AM

It's a dilema sometimes. You want to your FS to fight fierce but then again if they're too fierce, they end up tearing each other up and u lose good fighters. Example is Joe. I actually like this classic chop although it didnt have the size but it ended losing one arm to longman.

As of last week and past few days i have several FS casualities due to different reasons.

Chop female died of old age.

Big head's wife 2(the biggest female) also died of old age. Caught 10/1/08(mentioned in Post #5, page 1), Died
28/03/08. Almost 3 months. It has been inactive for abt 2 weeks since i last took it out from the bigcage where it laid eggs but ate them up.

Bigleaf died 27/3/08. Caught 25/01/08(post #84, page 3). 2 months only. Died of old age too.

The other thiania species died. Damn. I accidently drop the container from a height of about 4 feet. The container hit the floor with such impact it bounce up and down two three times. I think the FS sustained internal injuries. It was hardly moving after and i noticed a bit of liquid on container wall where it was hanging on. Next day died. Shit.
(Mangrovejumper: remember the tuk-tak incident?)

Ioismall died. Here is one FS i didnt really document. I caught it behind my workplace. It was small and cannot really fight. Anyway i was just keeping for sparring. After some time it actually also turned chop! There is one clip on the 23/03/087 which i posted where it won Destroyer(5th clip) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK0-9l7qBn4. Ioismall head was slightly bigger than Destroyer. On the 29/03/07 again i fought Ioismall with Destroyer. This time Destroyer destroyed him. (i wrongly named Ioismall as ioimm). Next day ioismall died. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUJcAv9V-f4

Small chop is going to die today i think. Old age also. i didnt fight it at all since it lost its arm. It has been eating healthly since then and even last 2 days but dunno why today it looked bended arms and hardly moving. Caught 12/02/08, same day Bighead vs Archilles fight. Going to die 1/04/08. About 1 month 2 and half weeks.

---------------

Longman vs Jack? Sure. It's only a matter of time before i fight them. Jack is getting old already. Also caught 12/02/08, same day as smallchop. I tried many many times to mate it, damn, it didnt work. Most of time female dont want. And twice i tied the female down but Jack ended up disinterested. I think now is getting too late. Anyway i'll fight them today.

Wah, u have so many FS now. Yeah, new FS not so fierce. Raptor bigger than spitfire, spitfire didnt stand a chance.
Hades should fight Hope.

Good analysis u have there regarding chops showdown.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 1 2008, 12:31 PM

can keep mah, until u find another one.

Cameron wasnt that fierce. It lost to another FS i think, short push only. But it certainly looked exotic. Then again that was only one. It could have been a small one there. We dont know wheather there are bigger and fiercer ones up there.

Today my metal shelving got swarmed by ants! The double sided tape no longer working. Luckily the ants were sugar ants...small one that feed on fruits. The ones where FS slings can eat. These type are not fierce enuf to attack the spiders but can be very irritating because they walk very fast. Anyway i added the age old method of ant defense..water.


Here's my Bavia update.

Bavia hardly ate at all since i caught it. It saw one small fly dead, after that it didnt eat for days. Guess why. Because it was preparing to change skin! It moulted on the 25/03/08.

Then it didnt eat until 30/03/08 when i saw the house cricket which i put in its cage sucked dry.

But since it made the nest i have never saw it come out even when i saw the cricket dead.


So today i took it out to appreciate the new Bavia.


And here is a comparison of how big he/she(dunno male or female) is. The FS is Jack.



Here is a Bavia short clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8JUF39fk3k

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 1 2008, 03:13 PM

New king?!

Here is the awaited match.. Longman vs Jack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW00y9Zb_rs
Notice how Longman tries to fight "normal"-arms spreading but Jack continuously tries to chop and lift.

I let Jack rest. 2-3 hours later i checked on Jack and he seems normal. Able to jump, all legs no problem.
So i thot let him fight again...

And the next NEW RECORD TIME FIGHT...2 minutes 35 seconds!!
Presenting Bro1 vs Jack. Chop vs chop. Almost equal size. Jack is slightly bulkier.
The fight started of with both chops leaping!

Jack leaped higher and bite Bro1 on the head!! While biting Bro1's head, Jack mangled Bro1 by grabbing Bro1's abdomen. Holy shit, i thot that's the end of Bro1.
Pic-Jack left, Bro right

Watch the fight to see wat has Bro1 turned into... Iron FS. Bro1 knows no pain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu5qf3hEito

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 1 2008, 06:15 PM

Bavia doesnt seem to want to eat house spiders. I have one inside its cage which already made a nest and laid eggs!

Yeah, probably get a table florescent light to put over the stage. In actual fact, I didnt think Jack really lost and the fight could have continued if the stage was bigger. The underside of the yellow paper was actually very smooth(the side for sticker) and so Jack couldnt grab on(jack grip is not as good as Bro1) and fell eventually. After that i saw a bit of liquid where Jack drop but his legs seem ok. In the video just before Jack fell i noticed some liquid on its right arm. Bro1 left arm was hurt, its tip bended and quite fixed. 1 hour later, jack looked better condition than Bro1. These 2 now are sworn enemies.

I caught the female chop so long ago i forgot when.. but surely it was old cuz its abdomen was completely brown and it has been bended arms for quite some time before it died. That mating was wasted.

I try not to use toxic stuff...in case some ants eat it and before it dies, it wanders into the spider area and get eaten by the spider.

You nail it to say the gold standard of chop is that they dont dance. Another point is that they dont do the arm wave push too.
So chop is
1) no dance
2) no arm wave push

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 2 2008, 11:52 AM

Probably Archilles vs Spartan is the longest ACTIVE fight i have seen. As we know now, most FS probably can't fight actively for more than the time u mentioned. Too exhausting. Even when we see human fight(boxing, kickboxing, tae kwon do), a lot of the time is spent moving around, positioning and not really exchanging blows. Even in UFC, there is stalling when fighting on the ground. Any FS that can continuously chop for a long time is bound to be a top fighter.

It amazes me when i look back at all of Bro1's fights. He was just a normal FS, sometimes losing with just a short push. Remember how it lost to Banglo with only one chop. How was it able to turn to one FS that doesnt seem to give up even against bigger FS like Longman. The last fight it had before it turn into chop was the fight where it got trashed by Jack. Looks like that was wat did it...

After some thinking back, I realized that Bighead and Kelapasawit are the only 2 males that successful mated. And these 2 are chop resistant. Bro1 has never mated since it changed skin. So now i propose another theory. Males that havent mated are more prone or will eventually turn chop while mated males stay non-chop. Looks like FS males that are not getting it become more aggressive... otherwise they will never get it! haha!

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 2 2008, 11:56 AM

Wah, viper, the last ranking u posted for top 5 was this.

HOPE
CROSSFIRE
XINAN
XONAN
SCORPIO

Now Hades has come in. Hades look big(u say as big as Bighead? or Archilles?), arms lreally long. It fought a good match with Scorpio but lost. Yet it won Xinan, which is 2 ranks above scorpio. I think Hades is still young, looks a bit lembik...but give it a few weeks i think it may take over Hope. If now u insert Hades in because it won Xinan then ur ranking would be

HOPE
CROSSFIRE
HADES
XINAN
XONAN

And SCORPIO out.

Now my ranking also not very sure. Theoretically at this moment it should be this.

Bro1
Longman
Jack
Kelapasawit
Redleaf

It is strange to have Bro1 on the top. Bro1 all along has been quite an average FS, losing simple fights. Also Longman and Jack is bigger than Bro1. During Bighead early days, Bro1 was no where at the top 5, being overshadowed by Bighead, Bigguns, Bigleave, Klang1, Topman, Blackhead and also later Blurman etc. Bro1 being top now seems to "jatuhkan" all my FS standard!!

So if to match ur FS, i would rather put it this way and they would match...

1. Longman - Hope (Size vs size)
2. Jack - Crossfire (Fight before, one win for each...3rd round to decide)
3. Bro1 - Hades (No choice here because Jack doesnt fair well against bigger FS like Hope or Hades, or Bro1 and
Longman could switch also)
4. Kelapasawit - Xinan(unknown expectation)
5. Redleaf - Xonan(unknown expectation)

The only fights from members of these 2 teams were on 4/5th March

Crossfire(Lily2)-won vs Jack - strong fight
Jack-won vs Crossfire(next day) - short fight where Jack bowl over Crossfire
Jack-won vs Xinan(X) - just touch
Hope-won vs Jack - strong fight
Hope-won vs Bro1 - short push

That time Bro1 also lost easily to ur Redleaf and Lily. Eh..wat happened to these 2 FS?

Of cuz u could decide ur team FS placing also.

This sat i can probably take half day(work till 1.30pm) so i can come or can we meet halfway?
Would have been a month since we last met.
Hope, Crossfire, Xinan, Jack, Bro1 still in the show since last time.
Hehe...this is gonna be exciting if we can meet. Hope my FS don't grow old suddenly...
Let me know.

PS. Mangrovejumper, how would YOU analyze it ? Which team would u bet on?

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 3 2008, 01:57 AM

Yeah, can free for all. But before that must fight one to one for 5 FS first. More fair for the FS mah. If fight one with 2 or 3, sure not so fair for 2nd or 3rd fight, cuz the one FS sure tired.

Ok, Sat aft then.

Here's a reply to an email i sent. Liana, if you're reading this, hope you dont mind me posting the mail here. Thanks for the reply!

hi adrian, glad you enjoy fighting spiders, they are very fast and strong! skimmed thru the forum and i think its cool that so many people are interested in them. i caught all my spiders in singapore and found that they favour building their nests in between the leaves of the spider lily, as well as the large ixora plants. i rear the spiders i caught, but not the babies. for my experiment, to get virgin spiders, i reared the juveniles i caught from the wild. babies cannot be reared, from experience, they do not survive in captivity. eggs do hatch but the spiderlings rarely survive past the second instar. i have worked with other spiders and some can be reared from eggs. im not sure why thania cannot.

i chose this spider becos it is common and easy to catch, and i wanted to repeat a similar experiment done on another spider called the wolf spider. like the wolf spider, thania has very good eyesight and is a very good hunter. i cant really say much abt them fighting cos i didnt let my spiders fight at all.


<adrianlwk@yahoo.com>
03/04/2008 09:28 PM
To Liana Tze Ann TANG/RSI/NLB@NLB
cc
Subject Fighting Spiders
Office Ext

Hi, I'm Adrian from Malaysia.

i read about ur paper on
Title : Teenage flirting: its effects on mate choice
and offspring quality in female fighting spider
Thiania bhamoensis, which was quite recent last year
presented in University Scholars Programme.

Really surprises me that u have done a research
regarding this spiders. I am really curious how did u
come about choosing these spiders and topic. Did you
manage to hatch the eggs and rear the spiderlings?

Wonder if u still keep them.

Anyway i started this forum about them
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/608348
which of cuz depict alot about them figthing.
Maybe u can comment on them there.

Nice research though!

Cheers.

Working today since morning...

Yeah, Sat was a great day. Viper and myself got to fight our FS and also catch some new ones after that and fight somemore!

We met outside and reached our destination about 5pm. It was a cloudy day. After looking around we found a nice spot on some steps under the sky, and this is our stage...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioorsPqCOZ4

We started off by fighting out sparring spiders...most of them cannot fight.
Winner on left.

Spitfire(Viper's) vs Destroyer(Mindstorm's)
Spitfire(Viper's) vs Jumper(Mindstorm's)
Justine(Mindstorm's) vs Spitfire(Viper's)(round 1 and 2)
Justine(Mindstorm's) vs Bigboy(Viper's, kecut)
Justine(Mindstorm's) vs Kaizer(Viper's, kecut)

After that we lined up our top 5 and set them to match each other like this
1. Hades(Viper's) vs Longman(Mindstorm's)
2. Hope(Viper's) vs Jack(Mindstorm's)
3. Xinan(Viper's) vs Bro1(Mindstorm's)
4. Xonan(Viper's) vs Kelapasawit(Mindstorm's)
5. Scorpio(Viper's) vs Redleaf(Mindstorm's)

Starting from bottom, here is Scorpio vs Redleaf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fvqw5b8SGY

Next, Xonan vs Kelapasawit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc2Us9gI1_s

One point for each of us. Damn, then it started to rain...we had to move our fighting ring to a shade area....

ok, continue Sat's story...

Next fight is Xinan vs Bro1. Bro1 doesnt look healthy like xinan. Not really jumpy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ac8q0Xn_0Y
Holy cow! Critical injury match.

Top 2 fighters. Hope vs Jack. Hope was in top shape. Like just caught in the wild. Jack a bit like Bro1, not walking with jerkiness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJW6lDpWV-g
Death match. With such a powerful top down chop on the head and then stomach attack, the victim doesnt stand a chance... It was over in no time.

3-1 for Viper. Viper essentially won the team event with devastating results. Xinan and Hope is clearly chop now and killer chops too.

For completeness sake, next is Hades, the largest FS present, vs Longman, the largest one i've got.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sts8umOwAVE

In the end. 4-1 for viper. Viper owns the fiercest and most wicked FSs that day. What a blow for my team, albeit old team. I am left to bring home injured and dead warriors.

Kelapasawit is the only top 5 FS i got that still havent lost. So fight with Xinan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM66zGaB69E

With this i have no more FS to fight. Sigh.

Viper then fought his own FS. One of them is Scorpio vs Xonan, showing "the throw".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M88tU0ITv8

6 something. We proceeded to walk back to car, but because there were so many areas around us to catch some more FS, we did just that!

In the end, Viper caught another 3 males and i caught 4 males - 3 FS and one Bavia male!
Viper's FS was small to average, I got 2 average and one slightly bigger one...Nightstalker.
Anyway, we fought our 3 new FS. Here's where we held our final fights for the day..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vlj1HTpXw_A

Viper's new FS all either lost or kecut.
So we proceed fight my new winner Nightstalker with Viper's Xinan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMXLAuBCtl0
What a surprise.

Next Nightstalker with Hope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW7aVRcPic0
Upset again!

Nightstalker vs Scorpio. Last fight for the night. Getting dark. About 7.30pm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPX8NCH95H0
Surprise again! Essentially a circular ranking.

Viper's Scorpio had the last win. Viper still have all his kings. I lost 2 old but precious fighters but gain a new good fighter. What an evening that was. What extreme fights.

Lesson I learn from sat's fight is that if you see ur FS walking without jerkiness, most probably will kena hantam.

---------
Theres 1st round when Xinan kena ambush by Nighstalker. Xinan seem like blind abit din realize or see properly. You haven't upload the video?
The teeth bitting is 2nd round.
-----------
Wah, you can remember so well after so many fights. I thot that one short fight, no sure which is which so i din upload.

------------------
Mindstorm, your 2 other new FS good fighter? You going to look for more new FS?
----------------

Didn't really have have time to rank my FS yet since Sat. Sort of just feeding them at the moment. At the moment my FS in a "mess", dunno which is better than which. Only know maybe Longman and Nightstalker can fight.

Wah, viper, ur FS a lot of fighting.

Hades standard quite weird. In the earlier fights, can win Hope, but lose to Crossfire so many times.
Then also lose to xonan, which was ranked fourth and also visibly smaller. Hades also display fighting stance for long time, with arms wide apart.

Nexus looks like chop already?

Your FS still fighting very actively.

A bit of deviation from FS...

Here's my male Bavia today. The first pic eating a small cockroach i found in my room and the last pic in his makeshift habitat(see if you can spot him there). The FS is Longman.

Viper, in case u find one male Bavia during ur FS hunts, make sure catch it hor... Bavia fight!

I have one male and one female Bavia, just moulted not too long ago... I'm sure you know what is coming next. hehe.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 10 2008, 02:11 AM


Attached thumbnail(s)

Hope managed to do the jump over on Jack and attack its abdomen but i think Hope didnt hang on. Hope somehow became upside down but can continue to grab and eventually bite the base of Jack's left arm , i think. I also think that was where all the blood came from. Also can see Jack left arm was severely crippled. Then later after that, the attack on Jack's abdomen underside was the truly fatal blow.

Jump over is a serious chop technique. Only when a FS is alert and fast can it be prevented.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7-5VOXZzFI

Today i fought my spiders but no good show because most of them not good fighters.

Long man
Nightstalker
Kelapasawit
Redleaf
IOImm
Justine
Jumper
Hogee
Destroyer

I will only keep top 4 and Destroyer. Tomorrow i let go others.
Redleaf getting bended arms so quite old already. Caught same time as jack i think.
Kelapasawit caught since CNY! Still can fight but can see slowing down.
I think Longman can challenge Hope. That day Longman kecut after losing to ur big Hades, so didnt fight with Hope.

Longman vs Nightstalker got 2-3 chops. Both times i fought them, Longman won.