Here is a mating of an elusive jumping spider species. Bavia mating...




Pretty smooth and violent-free mating but took such a long time...

Here's the clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcps8jkshHg

The Display Behavior of Bavia-Aericeps (Araneae, Salticidae), a Jumping Spider From Queensland

RR Jackson

Abstract

Bavia aericeps Simon is a large plurident jumping spider that frequents palms and other trees in tropical Queensland, building unusually strong and spacious nests on the undersides of leaves. The display repertoire of this species is large and complex, numerous distinct visual, vibratory, and tactile signals being used. Courtship is versatile, each male using one of three different mating tactics depending on the female's maturity and location. Type 1 courtship, involving specialized movements and postures of the legs, palps, and body, occurs if the female is an adult away from the nest; apparently this type of courtship is vision- dependent. If the male encounters an adult female inside her nest, he uses Type 2 courtship, which consists of movements that cause the silk to vibrate. If the female is a subadult inside her nest, the male initially uses Type 2 courtship, then builds a second chamber on the female's nest and cohabits until she moults and matures. Other displays occur during male-male and female-female interactions. Male-male interactions are particularly ferocious, the spiders often being upended and stunned. However, cannibalism seems to be of minor importance in this species.

Australian Journal of Zoology 34(3) 381 - 409

Full text doi:10.1071/ZO9860381

Comments: Same genus but dunno wheather same species. They're right about them building spacious nests. Look at the nest of my Bavia female which she built at the corner of the container. Double layer somemore.


-------------------------------------------------------

Here is a beautiful rather big vivarium.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b8XJmLC1Ls&feature=related
Vivarium is getting popular in the west because many people rearing poison arrow frogs. Imagine this vivarium has plant suitable for FS...then can rear a FS population inside....no need go out catch. To me a well designed vivarium is as beautiful and eye-awing as a well designed aquarium.

Scorpio fight so many rounds still dare to fight. Brave fighter.
Looks like you loaded a lot of ur clips up.

Here is a follow email from Liana

To: adrianlwk@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Fighting Spiders
From: "Liana Tze Ann TANG" <Liana_TANG@nlb.gov.sg> Add Mobile Alert
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:55:37 +0800

actually, i managed to breed my spiders last time because it was part of my research to observe mating and to make the females produce eggs. but you must be really really patient and do not disturb them while they are courting.

first you must make sure the female is mature. you can do this by observing if their epigyne on the underside of the abdomen is clearly visible. then try this trick -- to prime the area u are gonna put them in, you try and leave her inside for 4 hrs or more (overnight also can) before introducing the male. this allows for the air in the container to be saturated with her pheremones. this may facilitate courtship. the most important part is to make sure you put them in a quiet and undisturbed environment, bearing in mind that these spiders have such good sensors of vibration and eyesight, any movement from you will distract them.

for my experiments, some took very short, abt 15minutes to mate, but most took more than half an hour to mate. but once u see them being very aggressive to each other, they probably wont mate. sometimes, they will come together and mate one more time after the first time, so you may want to leave them inside the area for a while after the first mating.

my setup was a room with a table that had dark curtains around it, and i had holes cut into it for my ease of observation. that was how i avoided visually distracting them. as these spiders are sensitive, its probably wise to turn off sound sources like music while u are at it.

my spiders eggs all managed to hatch, except a few where the female decided to eat the eggs. i left them in the same cage as i believe the female might play a role in cleaning the egg nest of fungus and mites, but this is not proven or observed.

some tips to help spiders survive better in captivity - try and include some plant clippings like a leaf or two in the cage. make sure the leaf is not some strong smelling one that may be toxic when u cut it. also make sure there is enough humidity, like put a freshly wet cotton ball in the cage regularly. cos spiders do need a lot of water.

its nice to meet a fellow biologist. CMB is tough! hope you have some luck with the spiders. hope you can help keep the love for nature and the environment alive in these enthusiasts.



<adrianlwk@yahoo.com>
04/04/2008 11:14 PM
To Liana Tze Ann TANG/RSI/NLB@NLB
cc
Subject Re: Fighting Spiders
Office Ext

Thanks for replying.

Good idea getting virgins by capturing them as
juveniles. As i think u know too, the adult females
are almost impossible to get them to breed.

Thanks for the insight that babies cannot be reared in
captivity. Somehow it gives me more determination to
find out why and HOW to be able to rear them in
captivity. For something so common, it bewilders me to
think that it is so difficult to rear a full life
cycle of these spiders.

Anyway, if you ever think of doing any other research
on Thiania again, you can know for sure, I'll be the
MOST interested person in the WORLD to know.

Cheers
Adrian

PS. I am from NUS too in 1993. Stayed in Sheares Hall.
Did science, majored CMB and zoology. Stressed but
really enjoyed studying there. My favourite place..the
science library, biology section. Favourite canteen,
Arts though.

-----------------------------------
I am getting worse results than Liana. The batches that i had all failed to hatch...including Bighead generation.
Something is wrong.

Differences between the conditons of eggs I have and in the wild.
1. No female
2. Not on a leave but on plastic
3. Too bright?

I think as Liana said, the female is important because some of the batches of eggs had black fungus growing on the web and they failed to hatch. Most of them turn brown and sort of dried/wrinkled up.

Maybe having the eggs on a living leave is important. I had a female out in my garden which laid eggs on the underside of a leave. All the eggs i think successfully hatched because a lot of slings came out. (but now dunno where they go, all dead i think) Gaseous exchange? Or maybe the plastic have toxic that somehow harm the eggs?
Even the batch of eggs given to me by Viper which was also laid on plastic doesn't look good. The female is still there guarding the eggs.

The eggs i kept under certain shade with tape also failed to hatch. How bright is bright? In the wild i also see nest being made in leaves that are not that shaded, so there is a certain amount of light being able to penetrate those thin leaves too.

could it be the food i feed the my females? There is a batch of eggs which was laid(also on the plastic container) probably one or two days after i caught the female... even that failed to hatch.

Are the eggs not fertilized?

In the end, i think the most obvious reason is probably the plastic and light.

My next strategy is to follow Liana advice to make the environment as natural and as disturbance free as possible.

If i fail to be able to breed FS, i feel as i am doing a disfavour to FS. Not only have i failed to enhance their genes but by catching them and keeping the best, i am taking out the best genes out from the wild. Hence the wild will have weaker fighters to breed with the females. As a result it will be difficult to continue the hobby with lousy fighters around in whatever leftover natural places we have in our urban environment. As such, the hobby will also die out slowly. It becomes unsustainable. Of course, even if there are 50 people playing FS like viper and me, i doubt FS will pupus from Malaysia. But it becomes more difficult. From history we can see the most popular pets are pets that are able to be selectively bred by man. Guppies, Bettas, Discus, FlowerHorn, Koi etc and all types of cats and dogs are all bred for their beauty and uniqueness. Fighting animals although mostly frown upon are also bred for their strength and fighting ability. A special case is Murai(magpie robin) which is still imensely popular in many parts of malaysia(usually old chinese area) and even hongkong too despite, like FS, they are also, if i am not mistaken, caught from the wild as babies. I have yet to hear of a Murai breeder. But with such stakes and popularity in Murai fighting, i am surprise there isn't one. Maybe there is. Here are some forums on Murai.
http://www.pet-cockatiel.com/Dboard/viewforum.php?f=62

If, however, someone can find out the secrets to breed FS effectively and have a relatively simple way to bring up the slings to adulthood, and if a few people get into it, then FS hobby will have a new meaning, a new life... afterall more and more people stay in condos and FS keeping doesn't take up much space. It also means the hobby can travel all round the world.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 15 2008, 02:06 AM

Another recent forum from singapore about FS
http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/308155

A blog by Mr Oldbeng whom i emailed
http://oldbeng.blogspot.com/2008/03/spider...ing-spider.html

Another blog(need to scroll down)
http://walkherewalkthere.blogspot.com/2006...re_archive.html

A very old forum already closed down
http://www.fishingkaki.com/forum/viewtopic...3923c6735f09bd1

One of the earliest FS video posted online - 10/02/07 by someone named Jimmy Chai
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/349838/spider_fight/
Earlier than the first one you posted on 17/06/07 on youtube, Mangrovejumper.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4hJd5Gs2ng

A malay blog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4hJd5Gs2ng

Thiania Bhamoensis is certainly a jumping spider with many names...

"brothers" breed/"Abang Adek"
"couple"
"Kop" breed
"Ang Gay("Red Fangs") or Ang Gong"
"king kong" breed

Gostan Pow: When engaging in a battle, will start to move forward and backwards.
Tai Ban Kang: A very large male.
Chilli Padi: Small in size but very aggresive, can even take on another which is larger than itself.
Kang Bu Pow: Couple.

neng kah type
The Black colored ;
The pineapple breed;
The pandan leave;
The blue banded;
white legged

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 15 2008, 11:00 PM

Hi, nice to see some new nicks around. I was quite busy last couple of days.

Ass: White spots on black head with yellow strips. Sounds like an interesting spider which i havent seen.
But if you put 2 different species of spiders together, usually they won't engage becuz each spider don't know the power of the other type of spider mah....so 2 also tend to be precautious. Unless of cuz if you know how to catch those really garang ones.... like golden spider. By the way, where did you catch your spiders? Leaves? House? Of cuz, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Viper:
I did post this comment on 3rd April, post# 375, page 19.
"I think Hades is still young, looks a bit lembik...but give it a few weeks i think it may take over Hope."
Looks like it came true. Hades seems to be toughening up.

Pretty good fights. Scorpio is still a good fighter. Vanguard is certainly good fighter. Crossfire seems a bit injured from fighting him.

Let me see..is ur top ranking now like this?

Hades
Hope
Crossfire
Scorpio
Vanguard
Xinan
Trojan

Xinan vs Trojan was a terrific match! Although the both of them seems to be the bottom last 2 among the good fighters here.

-------------------------------------------

I put a wrong link to the malay blog. Here's the correct one.
http://attoch.blogspot.com/2006/03/laga-spider.html

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 18 2008, 01:59 AM

Heh, tell us some of your old memories la, if you still remember.

Ya, i got it wrong. Shld be Scopio vs Trojan. Great fight.

Longman and Darkstalker. They're still ok. I should have time this sunday morning to fight them. But won't be exciting i think cause size too much difference.

I dont understand ur ranking. Why is Hope above Hades even though Hope lost to Hades?

Refering to:
----------
Hope vs Hades (Hades won! Best fight for tonight. See the video man.. Fierce fight! Hades won but left arm injured. Hope not injured.. maybe lost coz exhausted after fought Xonan earlier. If continue fight 2nd round vs Hades maybe can win. : )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEdoia5nIsw
---------

Also why is xinan above vanguard when it also lost to Vanguard?

Refering to:
----------------
Xinan vs Vanguard (Xinan lost. Xinan attack with strong chop till Vanguard flip upside down but later Xinan arm kena bite!. Xinan try to breakfree and continue fight but still lost)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y3Is5tAnmQ
----------------

But i think it is because of Trojan. Although Vanguard won first. Later it lost to Trojan. And Trojan lost to Xinan? And Xinan win Crossfire?

Refering to:
------------
L3 vs Trojan ( L3 won! Trojan seems like going to become a chop soon.. see its it attack.. like trying to grab and chop.. but still weak)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5Ek34lcb7Y (Round 1)
I've rename L3 as Vanguard. Got good potential to become a good fighter.

Yeah.. i've uploaded some short FS fight this evening. Trojan already become a chop FS... see its fighting style.. chop attack. Vanguard lost to Trojan easily.
-------------

Lastly, what happened to Scorpio? It won Trojan in that exciting match, right? But no where in your ranking.

Yeah. I was thinking about the house spiders too. But then I wondered... why does fighting spider does not adapt themselves to live among rocks and concrete or behind old planks/junk lying in peoples houses/garden like house spiders? I'm sure there are crevices in piled up bricks/junk or concrete slabs laying around in abandon sites. House spiders can be found in shurb leaves like the one we caught in seremban(surely they originate from there before human civilization). And yet they can breed in concrete/human junk area. Why does certain type of jumping spiders remain among leaves? Does leaves confer a kind of exudate that has antibacteria/antifungal action that may help hatchability of these spiders' eggs. Maybe house spider eggs are more resistant to bacteria/fungal infection without leaves hence their adaptability.

I doubt anything to do with humidity or temperature caused these 2 factors are fairly consistent in Malaysia, wheather in a room or under the shade. But still something to consider.

Problem is i don't have a nice garden. At this point, I still don't really know the exact incubation period. 3 times i had eggs in money plant keep in the container, and everytime the female ate the eggs. Too much disturbance i think. I am also wondering wheather the type of plant leaves can affect hatchability. Also i think if the eggs fail to hatch and grow stale, the female would eat them too.

yeah, getting it right is what I want to acheive now. At least i know some ways can't work now. Being able to adapt breeding in an artificial system is important for conveniece and efficiency of work. People are obviously detered from doing something if it is too complicated or take up too much time(eg to feed or harvest). But now, obviously, the first thing is to get it working.

---

Added on April 19, 2008, 4:17 amNow i know which spider u're refering to as Spider Bandar. Picture worth a thousand words. I have seen these spiders but never play with them. I always equate them to be a variant of the ones with similar pattern but with black stripes we often see in the house.

I also never think they can be 50 cents! This i must see with my own eyes to believe. Even my Bavia is just barely that size.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 19 2008, 04:22 AM

Yo, welcome man. What school did u studied in? I was from Singapore too...studied in Serangoon South School. I think from 1980-1984. Looks like we are not the only ones that call chop spider "chop spider". Singapore is really developed now. Hard to find them when majority of the people there live in HDB flats.

---

Added on April 21, 2008, 12:52 amHoho... first singapore FS in this forum. Looks like a good specimen but unfortunately didn't have much staying power against Longarm. Longarm looks great too. Both looks like matured specimens.

The graph paper you used is how many mm per square? The one i used in my photos was 1 mm. I think yours is 2mm?

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 21 2008, 01:52 AM

Yeah, it would be great if i can breed them. But as you can see, if you followed the tread, I'm having many failures. With Liana's advice, I will still continue trying out different methods. You can take up the challenge too, as far as we know, being able to rear a FULL life cycle(from egg to adulthood) of a FS IN CAPTIVITY has NEVER been done by ANYONE IN THE WORLD. Document it here with pics/clips and you will be famous among all FS enthusiast

I find there are slightly more singapore FS enthusiasts than in Malaysia. Or maybe more singaporean FS enthusiasts serve the web and share their story. Whatever, it is great to know the fighting skills of FS has touch the hearts of so many people. Maybe one day if enough enthusiasts come forward from both countries, we can have Singaporean vs Malaysian FS fight!! haha!

------------------

Here is how someone can hold a FS competition. Haha! (third post on the page)
http://www.sgforums.com.sg/forums/1769/topics/314325?page=9

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 21 2008, 01:50 AM

Damn. That's a huge Big Spider Star i think. From the graph paper(2mm per square?), its body length looks like 15mm which is rather huge for a jumping spider. My female Bavia is also about 15mm in body length (Post #368,page19). The largest jumping spider in Australia belongs to the Mopsus mormon(Green Jumping Spider) which some sites claim the female reaching 18mm in body length. http://www.geocities.com/brisbane_spiders/...pingSpiders.htm
(Mangrovejumper, looks like same family as the transparent spider we find here)

In the US, this site http://www.uky.edu/Ag/CritterFiles/casefil...ing/jumping.htm
says 'The Bold Jumping Spider, Phidippus audax, (below right) also called the "Daring Jumping Spider" and the "Bold Jumper," is one of the largest jumping spiders found in Kentucky (1/2"). "
Half inch is also about 15mm.

I did a google on "Largest jumping spider" and saw this site http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/misc/regal_jumping_spider.htm
which claims adult female Phidippus regius from the States can reach up to 22mm. Now this is THE LARGEST.
I wonder how they fight.

Heh. Fight spider until sick? Better take care of yourself.

Power fights. I commented in Youtube.

Yeah, I was just about to talk about this competition. I pm Elindra which posted the invitation on sgforums and he told be that it is actually from arofanatics. His anwser was:

-------------------
21 Apr `08, 9:05AM elindra Reply
Re: Fighting Spiders

Actually the competition is started by some of the guys at arofanatics.com

Not by me

To register for that forum you need to use a local ISP email or if you wanna use a free email like gmail or yahoo, you will need to ask for authorization under the 'TroubleShooting' section from one of the mods.

The thread is http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315220
--------------------

I am using yahoo mail so I can't register. However, I can't seem even ask the moderator wheather he can recommend me because there don't seem to be a way where I can communicate at all before registering.

I am sure many of us NOT from Singapore are also interested to know the about the competition and especially the outcome of it with clips of course!! So, Ass and Lex123, you're our only hope, if possible, to maybe let us of wat's happening there.

Oh man this is funny. Chatting on forum.

But i think i can't go cuz a bit too abrupt that i know of this competition. Not only need to take annual leave for 2 days but also need to find another day at least to catch some FS mah. Right now I have weak team. Now only Viper's fearsome team dare go for competition. If i stay in Singapore, 100% i'll be there.

You go and let us know la. Introduce us to the organizers too throught the net. Then in time, I will sure go down for next round, if there is one.

---

Added on April 21, 2008, 5:30 pmYo man! At last you post here after giving so many comments on the clips on youtube! Welcome here man!

Those are Phidippus species i suppose since they are commonly found in US.

Black widows... the deadliest of spiders? It would be freaky scary to try to handle them.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 21 2008, 05:30 PM

I dont mind if you can help me register into the website. Then i can keep myself updated. Thanks man!

Just when through arofanatics site(thanks to Lex to let me share his login)...holy shit. The number of respondens there to fighting spider treads is uncountable man. Their treads are more active because more chat-like and sometimes divert abit...but still interesting to read.
Singapore is really the capital of FIGHTING SPIDERS! So there is where most of the fanatics are!

They have not one but several treads. Here are some of their earlier treads

Spider Fighting Competition.
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314613

Fighting Spiders - Record time!!! Incredible wrestling!!!
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314588

Spider Club 1st AGM!!
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313796

Fighting spiders thread 2
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312799

Can't seem to find their first tread.

Since Singaporean chinese there mainly speak hokkien hence the hokkien FS names. Some new names i learned...

Suk Pao n Gop Pao...those that chiong all the way
Ang(Red) Pao n Orr(Black) Pao are fiercier
Others
"kim pow", "lum pow", "qi pow" (dunno wat they do)

Bonafido is the man there.

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 22 2008, 11:16 AM

Heh, the link you gave for spider pandan and from Viper's pics... looks like Spider Besi is the female of Spider Pandan!

I message one guy nicknamed johnnecron on youtube who commented on this clip on Phidippus princeps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7ecCx8296M

His reply was...
------------------------------
Re: Phidippus audax Apr 21, 2008
oh yes many times
the males fight differently than the females
the females are more likely to kill each other while the males will always end the fight when one runs out of the ring

Original Message:

Have you fought your spiders before? (by me)
-----------------------------

Looks like Phidippus a is pretty fierce fighter.

The picture you took seems to look like this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqKPGDBe0xg
But you said yours was Phidippus regius. So many this guy made a mistake saying it is audax?

Phidippus audax is suppose to be this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H4_fg5KYwE

Another Phidippus species

Phidippus adumbratus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjSEBC6XkfA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XDigkv7PP4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsskK_1jr5E

Dan, you should give some life to these potential fierce fighters man. These clips here are a tab "plain". Show us their true colours. Hint hint

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 24 2008, 01:10 AM

---

Added on April 24, 2008, 1:12 amYeah. Who knows. With many kakis, we also can hold one major FS competition every year!

Yearly, like in japan, for a spider competition is best as it allows FS in the wild a chance to breed and grow. It would also be grander and more exciting. The anticipation and preparation would be good too. Even if it is in Singapore, people would be willing to travel from far for the event cause only once a year mah.

Any more frequent would easily deplete the population and no one would have any FS to catch. Also it won't be so grand.

---

Added on April 24, 2008, 1:29 amOriginally still not true chop lor.
I don't think chop vs chop can "neutralize" their skill la. Not acid and alkali man. If acid and acid, also become acid mah. hehe. Anyway, I got fight a lot of chop vs chop before and they never revert back also.
Eg
jack vs redleaf
joe vs redleaf
jack vs joe(joe lost one arm but still chop)
jack vs bro1(after becoming chop)
jack vs smallchop(also lost one arm, but still chop)
destroyer vs smallchop
etc

This post has been edited by mindstorm: Apr 24 2008, 01:29 AM

Which model of canon ixus are you having? All the pics which i showed in this forum i also took with canon ixus. My model is 7.5. It has macro function. Unless ur model has this function, you won't be able to take too close up.
Whatever the limit is, to take as close up as possible, you must have 2 criterias. Good lighting(even to the point ur FS is 5 cm away from a florescent lamp(i use a table light)) and non-shaking hands. What i do is i will rest my camera on something stable like the wall or floor as i focus(auto) to take the shot. Then it will be clearer.