currently im doing a-levels n going to finish in june 08
n i am planning to play WoW after that
is it ok? or too late?
coz i dun wanna waste my $$$ liao

shouldn't u be concentrating on your studies ?

well, mmorpg never 'ends' especially wow. u can do the same instance every week, play pvp if u interested, or do much much much moar things. basically, it wont end.

It ain't ending anytime soon son, not with WRATH OF THE LICH KING securing the future.

Honestly. I would say 2.3 is sort of the begin of downhill of WOW.

Look at the raid instances, its no where as epic as pre-tbc.
The PVE raiding scene is pretty much dying due to the current PVP trend.
Honestly, ask yourself. Why would i bother paying consumables and repair bills anymore? Arena and LOLAFK battleground is the way to go.

PVE gear holds NO significance anymore. Whats the role of PVE gear?
To progress further in raid instances which results in more repair bills? 90% of the time the ?? boss dont even drop what you want.
Why bother talking about Sunwell?
Less than 0.5% of wow population have seen Black Temple, let alone the future Sunwell.

Even the lorelol that drives the WOW story and quests getting pretty lame and stupid now.
What? Lets kill Zuljin because he refuses to make friends with Blood Elves.
Lets kill him coz some dumbtard treasure hunters are kidnapped by him.

Class balances in WOW are as fair and balance as Malaysian Election system.
Everyone knows that Blizz Developers are very vindictive. You insult them in 1 forum post, they screw you around for 3 years.
Even if you want to start WOW, do not ever ever roll a Shaman. You will thank me later.

Outland has nothing much to offer anymore.
What? New daily quests for professions?
Old world lvling has boring as hell since no one wants to run any old instances anymore. People just want to blitz through lvl 70.
That is how the game created sooo many retards.
Honored heroics runs FTL.



I know some of you will feel the same and agree to what i say, but your WOW addiction is putting you in a state of denial.
Ya this is pretty much a QQ post.

This post has been edited by Goblinsk8er: Dec 2 2007, 06:32 PM

/Agree totally

i dont agree on arena epics being so strong....it imba the game greatly real real greatly.............for me they should just remain as raid gear being the strongest gear you can achive... and one thing that dosent makes sense is y are the horde killing keal when he is their leader......

Kaelthas totally went insane when he was with Illidan.
Demon magic and arcane addiction = Worse than crack.
It doesnt make sense when the Blood elves immigrants in Thrallmar are preaching about Kaelthas while the Scryers are plotting against Kaelthas in Shat. WTF is this? PIME TARADOX?

I truly loathe Zulaman. The lore behind it is shallow as hell.
The forest troll were the original inhabitants of the area till elves come and disturb them.
If you play the Horde, Zuljin was like the big bad ass mofo that all the trolls revered. (Sort of like Grom Hellscream for the orcs)
Theres quite lot of mentioning of Zuljin in the troll quest in Hinterlands.
In Wc2, he is the only prominent troll figure in the game.
Now, he is just a killable NPC which drops random purples for lulz.

Clearly, Blizz developers have been slack off in the 2.3 patch.
Thanks to the ever idiotic Tigole and Kalgan who are responsible for EQ1's death.
I wouldnt give high hopes to WOTLK unless Blizz starts to do something about this slacking off.

PS: Sorry with the thread jacking.
Btw, i suggest you dont start WOW. Dont touch it ever. Especially during A-lvls.

This post has been edited by Goblinsk8er: Dec 3 2007, 01:48 AM

check WoW playerbase, check the 2nd rank mmorpg playerbase, or other mmorpg playerbase for that matter, and think:

if they arent goin anywhere, will WoW be goin anywhere anytime soon?

---

Added on December 3, 2007, 5:21 amQQ more.

pve cant be promoted as e-sport.

pvp can.

you can always continue to raid, or join the pvp bandwagon, no one's forcing you to do either. wow downhill? checks playerbase.... nope. only goin up. downhill for you, doesnt mean it'll be goin down for everyone else.

oh and in regards to shamans, theres really a ton of shamans doing fine in the pvp world, considering since class balances are mainly revolving around pvp (who the hell argue about class balances in pve lol. so long its constant buffs, everyone's happy)

---

Added on December 3, 2007, 5:24 ampvp gear are only good for pvp.

pve gear are only good for pve.

nuff effin said.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Dec 3 2007, 05:28 AM

First time I've seen an OP post about his worry that WoW may be ending soon.

Hee hee....

ah alas goblinskater ur msg came a tad bit late as wow has eaten my soul

I wouldn't say it's more of a decline but gearing more towards casual players. I don't know about Hyjal or BT just yet, but pre-tbc, Naxx was hard as hell. And comparing to what I've experienced so far with my current raid; SSC and TK, these are relatively easier. Maybe coordinating and managing 25 is easier than 40, but still with heroic keys being dropped to requiring only honored and no attunement quests needed, it's definitely becoming more casual-oriented than hardcore. Maybe that's why even pvp gear can be earned by points now and not by rank as required before; GM and Lt. Commander only iirc. My opinions anyway

EDIT: to answer the question, WoW will still be around for some time yet. As with life, you'll find more people negative comments than positives. Why? Because the ones with positive comments are too busy playing to comment

This post has been edited by Odinn: Dec 3 2007, 01:48 PM

Always, the best time to start I reckon is when there's a new expansion pack. You will probably get some people who will level some 'alts' who might play with you. Otherwise it's kinda lonely unless you got a bunch of friends to play with you.

Currently all the starting zones are like ghost towns. When I first started out it was really an amazing experience with tons of people all over the place. Progressing to 60 with all these people and seeing them from time to time really made WoW one of the best MMOs I've ever played..

Heh, i have been expecting our super flamer Quazacolt to reply.

I didnt meant to say anything bad about the PVP players or anything.
Me myself enjoy both PVE n PVP.
But it really pisses me off to see more bad players running around in item they dont deserve.
Every PVPer has the same gear except "Vengeful Weapons or Shoulders".
What im saying is the current arena system is a joke.
They should have add arena rating requirement on ALL S3 items considering they are way more powerful than S2 items.
What i want to see is a more competitive arena not a "lets lose fast and get points" arena.


You do know that statistical figures can be rigged right? Maybe the new playerbase are still too new to realize that they are stepping into a trap.

LOL, shaman constant buff? You don't play a shaman, you wouldnt know.
Every single shaman player knows that every single buff or class fix comes with "stealth" nerf. (WF fix WF totems, Healing Wave downranking, Ele dmg coefficient etc)
By the way, you do know that Shaman's Earthshield is going on a 30s cooldown in next patch right? Class balance in PVP lol.
Why would i bring a shaman whose 41pt talent is dispellable and runs on 30s cooldown when i could bring a druid or pally for more survivability?
Even bloodlust and purge will not justify their position in arenas when they are dead in like less than 10s.

Heres the conversation between a shaman n its developer:
Shaman: Hey, our 41pt talent is too expensive to cast and always dispelled or spellstealed in PVP the moment we cast it.
Developer: No worries, we r going to "fix" it.
Shaman: YAY!!
Developer: New earthshield will only cost 450 mana to cast.
Shaman: YAY!!
Developer: Oh wait, new cooldown of ES is gonna be 30seconds so it wont get dispelled that often.
Shaman: Ya...Oh wait, WTF?!!!!

This post has been edited by Goblinsk8er: Dec 3 2007, 04:08 PM

Yeap I cant agree more..WoW is a life Sucker!!

It took me a while to cure from widrawal...=(

Sobs...

bad players will still be bad players regardless of their gear. arena itself is already competitive enough. people that lose and suck will still continue to lose and suck regardless of their gear.
hell, raiding is JUST ABOUT the same, just cuz the guild/raid is good, noobs can just leech along and gain gear just because they are lucky it dropped, or they got the dkp etc. and in the end gaining gear that they dont deserve. SAME THING. but will the raid ultimately progress far with such leechers around? would they tank good as a tanker? deal good dps as a dpser? heal good as a healer? doubt it.

if ur SO pissed that bad players are running around in gears they may or may not deserve, im calling jealousy on that. advice? get those gears yourself and beat them with it. simple as that.

hey, i dont play a shaman, but as an ex-raid leader, and current pvp team leader and guild leader for over a year, i value shamans and i bring them to raids and now, in pvp.

since i dont raid now lets just talk about pvp. in pvp, shamans are the only class with bloodlust, dispeling them off or not is irrevelant as people will still get to ultilize it and not every team have full offensive dispelers eg: druid/paladin healer teams. and if you dispel, ur burning GCD and any top end pvp'ers would know how precious every single GCD goes. Then, theres totems, you may argue that they are easily destroyed, but do you know how much effort it takes to destroy them? just to get it replanted. you may argue that you can send a hunter pet to do the job, but do you realize, not every team runs hunters, and even if they do, everytime the pet moves to the totem, thats 1 less dps or interruptions on the healer or caster.

earthshield cooldown? imho, thats no big deal, the only change to pvp is that shamans will now need to time their earthshield better instead of spamming it on targets and EZ-mode heal people from it. nerf to their own defense you say? lol have you ever fought a 490 resil 13k armored 12k hp shaman, with earthshield? its even tougher than hitting a paladin, as a rogue, and with the new 2.3 spell dmg from healing change, they can and will kill you.

so really, if you have so much complains on shaman, imho, maybe its just you sucking. and lets say shaman REALLY suck, advice to you, tough it out just like rogues or ANY classes that were sucking (warlocks pre 1.8 patch anyone?) and wait for the buff, or just shut up and reroll.

and in the meantime, ill bring shamans that arent crybabies and know how to play their class and ultilizing them to their fullest for my team.

My whole point is Our Class Lead "Eyonix" posted that ES will get some love in 2.3.2 patch and we got a slap in the face with the 30s cooldown.
That what we call "LOVE". Theres a blue post in WOW forums stating this love.


I truly doubt a resto shaman can kill a rogue even though he is in full arena gear.
Where is your wounding poison? Poison cleansing totems ticks every 5s and do nothing against them
Where is your stunlocking



Same thing to shamans. Each totems causes a GCD too. So it affects both sides. Fair enough.

Quazacolt, to be very honest to everyone. Everyone here knows you are the most l337est wow pvper in lowyat forums.
Given a choice of ganking pally druids or shaman, who would you like to gank?
And go ahead and ask any resto shamans in your team what they think about ES patch in 2.3.2.
If you reply here that they have no problems and very satisfied with the buff, then you are the biggest liar in the world.



I do agree that leeching is a problem in raids. Any good guilds will spot a leecher and /gkick them immediately.
Its easier to spot a leecher now in TBC due to smaller raids compared to pre-TBC.

Edit: Lol, we are derailing this topic to another Pee vee pee thread. We should have a wow pvp subforums where Quazacolt is the moderator.
BTW, this forum needs more drama.
Im gonna stop QQing and play something else.

This post has been edited by Goblinsk8er: Dec 4 2007, 01:28 AM

resto shamans had been killing and raping rogues all around prior to patch 2.3 and even top rogues like neilyo, ming, nitrana have their troubles beating resto shamans, and even if its a win, all the above mentioned rogues are left with 20-30% health give or take, any mistakes they do will obviously mean fatal to them.

wounding poison can be easily cleansed, via a combination of poison cleansing totem spam/manual cleanse. and our stunlocks on post 400 resil people especially with over 10k hp and 10k armor holds minor value as opposed to stunlocking someone in prebc where people are usually dead before diminishing even kicks in. post bc especially heavily geared arena people, you can stunlock all you want but you're pretty much wasting your time as it'll get into DR early and your precious energy are being wasted.



id gank either the druid, paladin and shaman are debatable.

since you mentioned ganking, given the nature of ganks, i will have the opener, so the druid is a clearcut choice.
so that leaves either shaman or paladin, and to be honest, both share the same value to be ganked or avoided. shamans with their totems and their spell dmg are a killer to rogues. where else paladin couldnt kill me as easily, their bubbles, blessing of freedom and plate are enough to make any rogue frustrated.
so minus druid which is a clear cut choice, id say ill either gank both paladin or shaman, or avoid them completely.

assumingly you're talking about arena target selection, id choose anyone of them. i can counter paladin bubble via massdispel and they are as good as dead. shaman on the other hand actually can hold a few sec more than paladin due to ns heal/hearth shield, but same thing, they cant run away. druids id rather tend to avoid unless i can get a clear trap against them such as catching them in caster form with my teammates already prepping a huge dmg burst unload, else its no point having the druid kiting everyone around with his hots ticking with his teammates cc'ing/killing us or a 2nd'ary healer healing him.

and im not gonna lie, they are actually fine with the majority of the new patch changes, surely they arent too happy being unable to spam ES anymore, but the new water shield and ES mana cost helps them in the long run in a serious arena fight. the biggest problem in resto shamans in high end arena is that they run oom FAR quicker than any of the other 3 healer types. with watershield changes and ES cost lowered, it solves a huge majority of their problems. so yes, they are fine.



but the fact is leechers will still occur especially to guilds that do not have the manpower to sub in people everytime a leecher is removed. take for example is asiapacific players playing on US servers. so they are still gonna leech happily, and the fact is that there people all around the world that are gearing up despite them being deserving to their gear or not.

this thread is still about how the OP is wondering if WoW will last, you claim its going downhill, i strongly disagree, and this is merely a debate of it. dont see a problem in that.

Guess, its kinda true that its too early to tell whether its a downhill or not.
S3 is still early and there is no preview on Sunwell yet.

One thing for sure is if Blizz developers is gonna stay at their current ignorant attitude and standards (ala Sony's ignorant and arrogant ps3 promotion style), this game will go the way of the dodo.


This post has been edited by Goblinsk8er: Dec 4 2007, 04:16 AM

I wouldnt hold too much hopes on sunwell considering its rather geared towards the hardcore raiding community aside its lesser/more casual dungeons. Main reason to that is because the majority of hardcore guilds claim that BT/HJ being too easy, and as time passes, BT/HJ is slowly turning into a non-factor and pve is getting old really quickly as there is no additional content for them to work on. Sunwell is the solution to that and unless you're done with the present raiding world (HJ/BT), it wouldnt be too wise to look up to sunwell which is a notch ahead HJ/BT.

That said, imho Blizzard, even though they may seem ignorant or outright bastards to some, (even myself from time to time) but if you take the time to think and compare with other mmorpgs out there, im very certain that blizzard in overall, is doing MUCH MUCH better than the rest and its very apparent with the ammount of player base they are getting as opposed to other mmorpgs. No doubt, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone i dare say, but they are striking that balance very hard to please both the pve/pvp'ers, hardcore and casual alike, and to various categories of target audience and thus far, imo, they are doing a very good job in striking that said balance.

To be honest though, despite whats being said, i REALLY hope there would be some competition in the mmorpg market to arise, to at least keep blizzard on their toes. No doubt the market is already monopolized by blizzard and as we all know, monopolization in ANYTHING is not good, competition is always needed for the benefits of the consumer. Take a look back to our very own tmnut screamyx, prolly the best example i can think up from the top of my head.

So if that's how you feel, have you left the game yet?

ME SEE WHAT YOU DID THAR!

Q: Various posts about the job applications on Blizzard's website concerning a MMO, and how it could possibly be additional manpower for WotLK
A: No, it is an unannounced Next-Gen MMO. And that doesn't mean an expansion for World of Warcraft either.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.h...geNo=2&sid=1#38

Can it be World of Starcraft? Finally?

Personally, WoW has past its prime. It is going down a fairly slow downhill as PvP is horribly unbalanced, arenas just aren't working for the majority of players, raids are overly time consuming despite efforts to reduce the size/number of bosses, etc. Will it die? Probably not.

The big problem is WoW despite all its hype is still a fairly heavy grindfest game. When I am not raiding, I am farming consumables for Kael. When I'm not farming consumables, I am doing 5s or 2s with my arena teams. It is a vicious cycle that never ends and Blizzard is doing nothing to fix existing problems with the mechanics. Granted it is a fairly old game by now in terms of MMORPG standards thus does not warrant a huge revamp at least until WoLK but still the problems that persist are driving away alot of players.

While I do hope Blizz is learning from their mistakes in WoW for the next gen MMO, I am honestly not pinning much hope on their next project to be any different. Jeff Kaplan (Tigole) has pretty much repeated the mistakes he did in EQ when he joined the WoW team awhile ago and there is no indication that this will change. Instead, what I will do is subscribe to Warhammer Online which in earnest looks like a 'fun' game and not a grinding one. Emphasis on the quotes on 'fun', all MMOs have their share of grinds but the good ones do it without penalising players. WoW had a fair bit of fun grind but TBC took it to the extremes and killed my interest in the game.

like i said, they need competition, if they are gonna further dominate the mmo market with yet another mmo title, lolgg.

---

Added on December 4, 2007, 2:03 pmfirst off, pvp is not balanced around 1v1, and in 5v5 formats, or even arguebly 3v3, its almost perfectly balanced. granted, theres 9 classes and to strike a balance between maintaining the 9 classes to be unique yet not having any of them being overpowered over another, is not a simple task. even the supposedly overpowered and godlike warlocks arent so op'ed now since they arent getting buffs at all in recent patches where the other classes are, imho now they are almost the same as any classes and are very killable just like any other class.

raids are much more casual despite your claim. and theres always even more casual raids like kara/ZA. if hardcore raids arent for you, dont do it then, stick to the casual raids such as kara/za. i wont argue about the grindfest that still exist in pve as it still exist be it for mats for consumables or reputation grinds/attunement/heroic badges etc. But to claim pvp or arenas being a grind is really absurd. 10 games per week is really too much to ask? and hell, you pvp for the sake of pvp, and have fun, if having fun and playing the game is a grindfest to you, might as well dont even bother about it.

again your claim of the changes to tbc changes for the worse and the current mechanics/flaws driving away a lot of a players are still far from the truth, as a matter of fact, the playerbase is ONLY increasing. and a further hard solid fact is that TBC is far more casual friendly than ever and could also be claimed to be the most casual friendly mmorpg ever in the market. if WoW is not your liking still despite all that then by all means, just rollover warhammer, i can guarantee you, 60-80% of WoW players rollin over warhammer, in the end returned to WoW very promptly, especially since 20-30+ of my WoW friends that went over warhammer before, all of them came back to WoW and never looking back.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Dec 4 2007, 02:03 PM

Lost Vikings Online

being one of the newbies..i partially dont understand this discussion..all i know is im enjoying my WoW right now n...i let myself enjoy my wow life b4 (mybe) i realized how bad it is.. haha...but all i can say is it's better that Knight Online.... =D

Lost Vikings!! OMFG

Thats one of the best SNES games ever!!

then you need not bother about this discussion if your enjoying the game.

the TS is stating his worries about how long WoW will last, and the main discussion is between the naysayers claiming wow is on its way to its doom and the opposition which is mainly me in disagreement.

I highly doubt ZA can be considered 'casual' considering it is fairly hard even for a SSC/TK guild to clear it in a few goes unless you have BT'esque SR gear for Shaz. It's harder than Kara, probably about as difficult as SSC in terms of 10 mans.

While its debatable, I do think the TBC changes are for the worse. The regular push for new dungeons which arguably are no different from previous ones, balancing issues (who are we kidding? BG9 is littered with war/druid teams even the blues and pros admit its a tad bit broken), the snail pace of patches, it is not the same game as most enjoyed previously in the old WoW.

Do I still enjoy it? Hell yeah! I have a druid in a BT guild (just healing when needed on offnights), SSC/TK guild for my main hunter, 1900s arenas on my hunter... the list goes on. But do I think it's on a decline? Probably yes. It isn't exactly Blizzard's fault but its just the cycle that MMO games go through if you have played older MMOs like EQ, DAoC and UO. WoW just feels bloated at the moment with lots of tacked on components which make the feel of the game less smooth per se.

WoW will still continue to thrive just like what UO and EQ1 are doing but certainly Blizzard is looking forward to their next gen MMO considering many of the old school WoWers have moved on to other games like CoH and the upcoming AoC, WAR and TR. Most MMOs last around 5 years anyway in their heyday and with WoW going past 3 years, it is really hard to say WoW is still at its peak not just in terms of subscriber base.

So where does WoW place itself currently in terms of the MMO evolution timeline? I'd say it is around the state when DAoC got the Trial of Atlantis expac. A tad bit bloated, past its prime, a tad bit heavy on tacked on features with slower pace of evolution. Will people still play it? Definately! Will I get WoLK? Of course. But the question I think many old school players like me who have been in the closed/open WoW beta will ask is... will the game be worth paying when AoC/WAR releases? The answer to that, I will have to wait and see. From my WAR beta experiences before the revamp, albeit it pretty short, was a good one pvp wise. I'm going to give it a shot with an open mind thus if it is good, that will be my main MMO for the next few years.

ZA is pretty much casual considering thats what:
- blizzard announced
- its just a notch above karazhan, which is already non-factor
- most fights are simple tank n spank, the only hard part about it is the gear sink, but if your fully kara/heroic geared, its not an issue
- the only hardcore portion about ZA is the timed quest.

and now you bring in BG9, 2v2, wtf? you wanna start looking at the 5v5 or even 3v3 brackets now? no, warrior/druid dont dominate those brackets. Blizzard already claimed and admitted what pvp will not be balanced around 1v1/2v2, they also even claiming the reluctance of even making 2v2 arena format but its due to player's demands it got out in the first place, get over it. Hell, your also a hunter, and despite their past history of being arguebly the weakest class in arenas, they are now heavily buffed and is a contender for top spots on the class rankings for high end arenas.
here: http://www.geekboys.org/arena/index/5/all/hunter/all/all/
and lets not even forget the hunter legend that defied all naysayins about hunter being bad even way before the hunter buffs - Hamchook.

Snail pace of patches? if you've checked the timeline of WoW patches and expansion releases, and the length of patch notes/changes, then compared it to ANY OTHER mmorpg in the market. tell me who wins.

No doubt just like every mmorpg, WoW will eventually come to an end be it the outdated graphics due to technological advancement, better programming or even game structure itself. But with what the current market is offering, like the ones you listed - City of Heroes, Warhammer online, Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan (lolwtf?) just does NOT offer any advantage over WoW. and despite your claims of people migrating over, i can also claim people that even migrated over in the first place returned to WoW. Hard fact is that WoW playerbase subscriptions are increasing, while the games you listed are either having an awfully slow increment in playerbase, being stagnant completely, or even worse, declining in playerbase.

Ive been an old school WoW'er playing since closed beta, ive come across many old school player burning out from WoW, leaving it, or even migrating to various other mmorpgs even the ones you listed. but hard fact is that, most if not all of them, returned to WoW eventually in the end. Why is that? nothing else matches up to what WoW offers, simple as that.

I think if you did ZA, you'll know that its not as casual as Blizzard said it is. Considering Blizz said ZG was the next UBRS which it didn't turn out to be.

Actually, other MMOs do have faster patch rates. But I wasn't comparing them with WoW. If you look at the past patches of WoW vs the ones coming out now, it is fairly slower (and buggier). Like I said, it is not due to the game being bad but the fact that Blizz is slowly diverting attention away from TBC, be it to the next gen MMO or WoLK.

As for balancing, well even 5s aren't exactly balanced if you look at it. The standard 2345 team still wins, you can't really slot in other classes without losing a counter and the list goes on. It is balanced to a certain point but at the end, it is not as balanced as one would hope for due to the fact that WoW was originally designed as a PvE game and not a PvP one. Don't forget, PvP was added far later and was never in the original game. Just like the 2345 teams for 5s, 3s are dominated by R/M/P teams so I highly doubt one can say it is balanced.

As for hunters, you really have to look at the way class mechanics work. Hamchook was strong because of one reason (I'll let you guys guess it ) and for the same reason too did Crimsonlocks aka Megatf succeed in 2s. No one's going to cry about 2s not being balanced especially since Blizz admitted that it can never be balanced but the bottomline is still that WoW isn't balanced on the PvP front. Blizz may give excuses that 2s aren't balanced, classes are not designed to go 1v1 but in the end, those are all excuses for PR. WoW wasn't designed for pvp, they slapped on the pvp component and end up having the whole arena balancing nightmare.

If you look at how WAR is being designed with its Archtype system together with Dogs of Wars and other pvp mechanics, THAT is a game designed from the ground up for pvp balancing. WoW just sadly is still a PvE game at heart and is nowhere even close to what DAoC was for player vs player action.

Now don't get me wrong, I think you misintepreted me a tad bit. I'm saying that:

-WoW is definately on a decline, not in terms of popularity/subscriber which you claim it is not (and definately it is not), but in terms of the lifecycle of an MMO. It's just aging and that is normal.
-Evolution of the game is definately slower, not because of the game is going bad but Blizz has shifted attention to newer stuff, WoLK included.
-PvP is hardly balanced. You may not agree with this but a quick scane of the stats and you can see certain classes being grossly under represented compared to others. Arenas work but it is still not what I would call balanced.
-People coming back to WoW? It depends. I've been on 3 servers so far, 2 of them I still play now. Most of the old school WoW heads that levelled with me pre-TBC are gone but in their place, new ones joined. Many I know left for CoH and other games including DAoC. Some did eventually come back but others didn't. Your experience may vary.
-Is WoW dying? Hardly. Will it still be the most popular game 5 years from now? I'm willing to put my 10g on that.

So to the original poster, no the game is not dying in any way. If you enjoy it like me and many others still do, by all means play it. But for me, I have pretty much lost the fanboi'ism that I had a year ago and if a good game comes by, I am more than happy to ditch WoW for another.

As i said, i havent done ZA myself so i will refrain from further commenting, however, ZG was pretty much the next UBRS despite how hard it may be to some raiders/players. ive pretty much done a huge majority of my ZG in semi guild/semi PUG due to the lack of players. while no doubt it isnt as effecient or successful as the majority of guild runs out there, but we've been full clearing zg on many occassions and its being done very casually.

Unless you consider the initial releases of mmo where almost everything is bugged and crappy that immediate hotfixes are needed to keep the players intact, or the minor patches that lists no more than a few lines of changes, no, other mmo's arent doing all that much better at all, if not, as i claimed, a lot slower than blizz's WoW.

5's are very balanced as the game changes progressed. season1 wasnt much the case, but season 2 especially this season (S3), 5v5 is pretty much as balanced out as it can be. every 9 class with ALMOST every different build (such as feral druids or ret paladins) are viable for 5v5. And despite your claim, its actually the opposite. If you find yourself being hardcountered due to "class balancing" issues, the best way to counter that is swapping in another class, and my team's been doing that since our major establishment on the 1.7k ratings and we're shooting past 2k ratings even the 2.1k ratings mark time to time. Today its been even better with a now FULL 10 man roster with all sorts of classes available at our disposal with the exclusion of a warrior and so long we have at least 6-7 people logged on for rotations, we've been able to come up with solid counters against almost any kind of compositions being thrown at us. That imo is balance, since nothing is particularly overpowered over another and everything can be countered. True, WoW wasnt originally designed to pvp, but yet another fact is that, since the closed beta theres pvp servers already, and patches are constantly being rolled out to address pvp balancing issues.

True, 2345 is the most popular and perhaps the most dominant composition in 5's, but do you know that 4dps are one of the best hard counter to a 2345 team? and that 2345 can be varied to different compositions to produce different results? the only definitive 2345 setup is that the team must have a warrior and holy paladin, and that 2 class alone can be easily countered by caster heavy teams especially if you have a warlock COT'ing the paladin and felpuppy constantly on him. Hell, the term 2345 in the first place is from team pandemic with the buttons that the shaman pushes to win. imho that doesnt mean much jack as team pandemic isnt a exactly the top 3 team in BG9. they are however damn popular and rather successful in profession WoW tournaments and just recently won their dreamhack tournament too at sweden.

As for 3v3 RMP, i run RMP myself, and i admit that it is fairly overpowered, especially with the recent changes to the bandwagon rogue AR Prep spec, mage co-effecient cast changes, the upcoming trainable iceblock change, and the major Disc priest changes. But do you know that Warrior/Warlock/Paladin is the hardcounter to RMP? or the infamous drain team that usually comprises Warlock/Priest/Hunter? Hell, team pandemic lost to hamchook's drain team badly and if it werent for their team's stubbornness in not switching out classes to counter pandemic's anti-drain team counter comprising rogue/rogue/druid (yes, messed up i know, one should never allow stacked classes in tournaments) pandemic would never even win the tournament at all. And if you havent checked the the majority of top 3v3 teams, no, its not really dominated by RMP entirely. theres a vast lot of 1 warrior + 2 healer or warr/warl/pala setups or even the infamous drain teams.

With the new hunter changes, if you still can claim wow pvp is not balanced at all (well, in entirely it isnt 100% balanced, or would it ever be as this is a very subjective matter) then you may want to have a step back and have a look at perhaps yourself being the hunter, or your teammates. As far as hunter goes, even our hunter that was with us as a clicker/keyboard turner was able to do fine even in the 2k rating bracket, and thats prior to the hunter buff. (if you've been following my minor pvp blog) Of course now things changed a lot for him as he is using macros and keybindings, and with the hunter buffs, hes pretty much a beast now able to take out people single handedly in arenas. At a lot of occassion we even assign him to solo dps 1 guy while main dps on another, causing intense preasure on the healers and they will have to choose who to keep alive and who to let go, either choice is obviously not good for them. And as fight drags out, viper stings and our priest mana burns or even warlock mana drain will kick in and we will emerge victorious eventually as oom casters cant do shit.

Yes the archtype system maybe good on paper, but will it be as good on release? while its hard to judge a game that isnt fully released many beta testers that supposedly migrated from WoW claim that it isnt as good as it claims. Also, if you havent noticed, WoW is the only mmorpg thats being played as a true professional e-sport, will warhammer bear the same ammount of quality of not more to be able to achieve that status? again, its still not on full release and its hard to make judgements based on the state of the game, but it is one good point to think about and it sets a VERY HIGH benchmark for warhammter to reach.

And you've got me wrong in the sense that:
- Im also claiming that WoW is not in a decline at all even in the lifecycle itself, at least not yet, seeing how it is doing now in the e-sport level, and the upcoming release of WOTLK.
- this i may agree, but you've mentioned that they are working on WOTLK, which would only mean good for the game in the long run.
- PVP is definitely balanced, given the options you can have to counter any forms of imbalance you may be faced with. What you claim is true though, for example the rogue/hunter class prior to 2.3, but since 2.3, they have recieved a huge number of buffs and as season3 hits, the statistics are showing that those said classes are definitely improving a lot and previously dominant classes such as warlocks and/or warriors are declining with the rising of hunter/rogues.
- difference in experience perhaps, but i could also claim that it may be the focus of one server from my part compared to you playing on 3 servers. as i am able to establish more presence and contact with players as opposed to a person playing 2 or even 3 sevrers as you mentioned.
- that would be too hard to answer, but i personally hope it wont reign as the most popular and dominant mmorpg as stated in previous posts. monopolization in anything never works, same would go for WoW

well i think post-TBC instances improved the weapons greatly. +70 stamina and so on. Insane!

Less ppl will raid the pre-TBC instances, prefer leveling then straight go raid postTBC

If not mistake I heard that WOW will have another expansion soon and this time will be level until 80

WAH Quaz can write so long like essay....see also lazy read ...to TS, wow is fun provided u can put a little commitment in it if u r a bz man then u consider urself to play ornot ..

i quitted WoW myself as i cant put commitment in it though..hehe

TLDR would be a better summarization of your post.

one thing though, WoW being so casual friendly, so long you dont mind being ownt by hardcore players be it pve or pvp, its perfectly fine to play at your own pace. My pace from Sunset Swish. its an ending theme music from Bleach anime in case you didnt know, just google or wiki it for more info.

DONT MAKE WARCRAFT MAKE LOVE!!!
(incase you dont know the above is from south park wow edition lol)
i think you all should go out and buy an orange box and install the tf2 and play when you are bored in wow!!! it really helps!!!!!

This post has been edited by Jas2davir: Dec 6 2007, 11:55 AM

well this i agree. players have to stop getting so pissed up when getting owned in WoW.

if you don't wanna get owned, go play sims 2

actually is more of dont complain or get jealous of people's gear when your not working for it. its fine to be casual so long you understand that being casual would mean slower progress in pve or pvp especially when gears/rep is concerned.

Dear Master Quaza...
why blizz don't let us arrange character list?

You can get owned in Sims2. Seriously, true story.
Keep your kids out of school and children welfare will kidnap them.

if you're currently in school, pls dont start playing the game. Its highly addictive & it will be very hard for you to manage your time to study & to play. Your mind will go------> WoW first!


The game is not really that fun if you think about it;

PVE ---> find group, enter dungeon, clear your way to the big bad boss, kill it, loot his stuff, rinse and repeat.

PVP (BG) ----> WSG : enter bg, run to enemy base, steal flag, kill stuff on your way back to your base, capture flag, rinse & repeat.

----> AB : enter bg, run to a base flag to click it. wait there & defence or go around killing stuff & claim enemy base, rinse & repeat untill winning.

-----> AV : enter bg, run to enemy base, kill things on your way, claim their gy & tower/bunker, and proceed to kill stuff until your enemy run out of reinforcement. Rinse & repeat.

-----> EoTS : enter bg, run to claim a base/flag, defence & or attack enemy base, steal flag, run it to your base, rinse & repeat until winning.

ARENA : Que arena for about 5 - 15 mins. Enter arena, kill things or get killed in less than 5 minutes. rinse & repeat.


My point is, WoW is just monotonous. At level 70 that is. The above are what you do everyday when you log into the game besides farming gold & doing daily quest for your epic mount & stuff.



I think what makes people (including me) playing the game is really ------> get good gear & weapon to be better than others, show it off, & able to kill others.


Well, my 2cts.

and sell WoW gold for money

email support@blizzard.com

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Added on December 6, 2007, 3:48 pmreported

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Dec 6 2007, 03:48 PM

accutualy wow is more fun then you think it is...some days in wow when things are looking bright for you then you think it's the best game in the world but other days when shit happens then u wanna quit or wanna sale your account....lol and dont try playing other on9 games that requires money coz you will end up crawling back to wow no matter what you do

when wow is getting boring, blizzard will unleash another new mmorpg. it is as simple as that. maybe, the world of diablo ? who knows.

Mm i agree that PVP has taken over PVE lol.. pre tbc as i recalled everyone has that kind of enthusiasm to raid instance, being together, teamwork and crap.. During those days wow is generalised as deeply pve mmo, kill bosses and pvp only involves merely bgs and duels..

once the arena system was implemented(tbc), everyone started to lose interest in raid instance; turning over to the rewarding path; PVP .. like in a couple months you can be equally geared like those hardcore raiders whose commited so much energy and time at raid dungeons..

based on my exp, i got like 4 core guild mates left pve environment for pvp lol.. and their got like already couple pieces of t5.. the arena welfare system should be abolished imo.. Bring back what WoW supposed to be.. lol wtf am i mumbling in here..

regarding to ur question, wow is definitely worth the money provided u got commitment and sacrificion unless ur going casual welfare pvp only.. next xpac should be better

3 pages on How Long More will WoW Survive....

ho hum...

shouldn't u all be doing something in-game? ;p

reported..........



wtb world of starcraft too


This post has been edited by intothefantasy: Dec 11 2007, 04:13 AM

sorry i dont get owned by wow and being casual within the hardcore group is a no-no. Being left out is the issue, yeah so? i left my group of friends, then join a casual raid group. No progression at all, stuck at gruul/mag. Ok i don't care, i go for PVP, but i feel meaningless of the PVP grinding after i have 2 piece of S3 T6.

so it is my own desire to leave the game. I didnt flame any of you so don't flame me he-he anyway i spend less than 20 hours to play WoW in a week due to many socials.

i prefer to save up the money to do something else and go play some other new game.

This post has been edited by Addict: Dec 11 2007, 12:19 PM

Casual playing in TBH will get no where.. But if time is not a matter to u, raid 4 hours a day for 4 times a week, u probably end up in high end instances.. like how does my guild is progressing towards hyjal/bt .. sometimes WoW is a lil complicated

lol i cant raid 4 hours a day for 4 times a week thats the problem. That is why i said i can't confirm my commitment into this game. I always have sudden OT for work, and also, i have a gf and family. Can't fix my time to dead for that game...therefore due to this problem, the officers won't prefer to take players like me that don't have a fix schedule ...i understand on their behalf too..

This post has been edited by Addict: Dec 11 2007, 12:22 PM

and THATS why i like the arena system, you dont commit to time, you commit to skill.

we only play 10-30ish games/week for our main 5v5, and its usually done on weekends since weekdays theres a lot of sudden OT issues even from myself. or people needing to sleep early due to work/school etc.

to be honest, raids are the same too. problem? you need the other 24 or 9 people to have the same level of "skill" and teamwork to make it work. ive seen many casual raiding guilds that does only weekend raids and each raids being just 3-5 hours and they still make it to bt/hyjal. Same could be said for arenas, even if you suck, so long you play an assload of games you'll prolly more ratings than you play less since you encounter more teams and chances are you'll face easier teams, and hard teams wont take much ratings off you if they are highly rated. Difference? You only need 4 person to do it instead of 9, or 24.

I like cash, real life cash! And I like spending them... Wow restricts my freedom for doing so

who doesnt more cash more pew pew in RL

haha addict how's work?
are u one of the selangor brats who gets a day off today?

meh no off...in office now man......

sets84, if u r clever, u can make money out of wow itself.

dot dot dot . . . . . . . is not our first day of MMO dood ...and i dont support in that......due to many factors kakaka..

i've been in the mmorpg money making business since years back...
seriously now.. do u think i'd be working if the income from gaming is that lucrative?

it actually is, and its legal too.

WoW arena tournaments *COUGH*

pro-wow arena players have yearly income ranging between 20-60k US dollars. my yearly income is around 20k ringgit.

so yea, it is that good. but i mean, not everyone gets to live up the gamer dream

and ataris, just, roll over and die in car fire or something already please.
=edit=
and i dont know why, but you somehow managed to be more annoying than jas, i really cant figure out why.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Dec 11 2007, 03:05 PM

and facing the comp 24/7 .......for grinding.........

social = gone
health = gone
self improvement = gone

ps: if you are talking bout tournaments, it is different than earning money from mmorpg *cough* u know what i mean..

This post has been edited by Addict: Dec 11 2007, 03:07 PM

that's a pro-gaming career,
it isn't really making money out of the mmorpg...
its making money playing the mmoprg on competitive levels...

and that too isn't gona ensure you're at the top of your game when you're 35+ when you're perception dulls...

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Added on December 11, 2007, 3:09 pmhow is he somehow more annoying than jas? I mean I totally didnt even know he was in these parts of the forums either..

This post has been edited by sets84: Dec 11 2007, 03:09 PM

dude, get a gf like hafu, grind 10 hours, eat/shower/toilet 1 hour, sex 4 hours, rest sleep. THATS A PERFECT WAY TO SPEND MY LIFE FOR AND DIE FOR.

and yes i know what you mean

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Added on December 11, 2007, 3:14 pmwouldnt be too late to start a career 35+ then

i live for an interesting life. absolute NO! to being a sheep like the rest
sadly im just not good enough for all of that

thats the thing man, hes like, some random plague of shroom, hes never here, but suddenly he just SPROUTS outta no where with a 1 liner spam, and not just the LYN WOW boards, literrally across LYN boards :/

oh i think i may figured out why, hes a dotard too. and my intense hatred against dota and dotards seem to picked up the scent.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Dec 11 2007, 03:14 PM

you know what I'd like to be doing at 35? playing texas hold em for a living...
god that game is freaking addictive... It ain't normal casino shit, it's all about mind games, card readings and patience. Really sends the adrelanine running.

wat the............................................................

The nature of competitions is that it's short-lived requires extremely high level to succeed. Short-lived because competitions are about who wins what under what requirements or restrictions. Once you start failing to meet the restrictions, you're out of the competition.

And to live off gaming competitions, it has to pay off well too. That's another problem with the local gaming scene. Competitions don't pay enough to support a normal life; i.e. a home, transport and living expenses to finance. Not to mention family. Maybe I'm not too familiar with the gaming competitions here, but that's how I see it anyway. Same goes with competing in other fields, e.g. sports. Doesn't pay well for the local scene unless you're competing globally.

Anyway, out of topic already..let's get back on track

EDIT- reminded me of a comparison I read long ago; Michael Jordan vs. Bill Gates

This post has been edited by Odinn: Dec 11 2007, 03:39 PM

ah, ive had my time playing that too, and it was my first game and i won XD

indeed it has its thrills being a zero-sum based game, but i surely does suck for being the loser. and even being damn pro you'd still have a decent chance to lose. imo its all bout daring and reading people's faces. luck does play though hehe.

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Added on December 11, 2007, 4:05 pmyou are correct, we have almost zero support from our government when it comes to e-sports.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Dec 11 2007, 04:05 PM