Hi everyone,

Last 2 months there was a legal talk issues betweeen Sendi Mutiara Multimedia(SMM) gamming licensing and all cyber cafe outlet held in KL. As I know, SMM is the only distributor Blizzard Entertainment for Malaysia region and they do not have the legal right to rent and collect licensing fees from cyber cafe outlet. And there is all over the chinese newspapers regarding possible false gamming license:
http://www.nanyang.com/index.php?ch=8&pg=15&ac=769619
http://www.chinapress.com.my/content_new.a...rt=0914mb65.txt
http://www.guangming.com.my/content.phtml?...id=200709130894
http://www.kwongwah.com.my/news/2007/09/14/7.html

Does anyone know how is the progression? Do I still need to pay SMM for gamming licensing?

Thanks in advance for any info...

They dont, the agreement u signed stated, u agreed to compulsory purchase X amount of games(CDs) from them monthly. No matter how, they can still spin it

Thx, what about for new cyber cafe which is not yet signed up with the agreement?

You can try go to Blizzard directly. But chances are there's still ask you to go back to SMM.
If new cc didn't signed up any agreement, that could means they are using the game for commercial purposes without permission. Means Blizzard can sue all they want...most probably through SMM.

Can someone translate it to the rest of us who can't read Chinese?

So most Cybercafe owners believe Sendi Mutiara is a scam... but what happened next?

nothing happened after that. it only means whatever the cafes tried to prove, was futile and that SMM is right, i.e. not a scam.

scam or no scam, cafes are making a profit off Blizzard games and Blizzard should be entitled to a cut of the profits, paid to SMM.

anyhow, this isnt the right place to discuss. most of us are gamers here and might not know how to advise you properly. you should try the cari forums though, plenty of info there.

good luck!

This will take some time because that is only a accusation announcement, thay have not even get dirty in court yet. I will follow up this issue next month.

as far as the public is concerned, SMM is making the profit themselves and not really making the cut to blizzard.

and SMM or blizzard has done nothing thus far to prove otherwise, hence this is still a valid accusation/case.

my 3 cc actually pay for it...
and smm in return give us 1 pcgamer mag and 1 new games every month..
and now i was selling it in garage sell

how much your pay for it?
why i get 5cd permonth, but you get 1 only?

SMM dont give pcgamer, New Era did.

as long as i know
most of the CC don't sign any thing with SMM
few of my friends claim SMM hire some "gangster" look alike guys to force them pay $$ only. (my freind owns CC)

And, i heard eventhou singapore CC also don't pay any fees to their distributor except the copies of game. unlike local SMM.

And lastly, ever chitchat wit some EX SMM staff mentioned, SMM themselve "telan" the fees themselves. no any cents is given to blizzard at all.

i think this quite sensitive topic to talk about... no prove.. what to say..
the only think i heard is during the SMM DOTA tournament... donno what minister came and talk about this issue as well, the minister claimed that SMM is right... and 1 representative from Blizzard came as well... so i guess all that is just rumours...

the secret "PA" which SMM claimed they have been authorised, clearly stated that" SMM has the legal right to distribute, or to stop copy right issue(privacy)", never mention they have authorise smm to collect business license fee.US authorities has clearify that they have never been grant anything or similar to the CC license authorities to SMM clear?

so it should be like protection money eh?

Yes, in a way.

I say 'she' got an D- in spin doctoring. Maybe the company pay 'her' nuts lol

Heard that fella SMM conduct a raid on cc in Klang last week. I was at the next door cc enjoying and went out to see what all the noise about. Some fella by the name Hunter and Hang or Fang also came but all just left. Some pc kena taken. I enjoy playing warcraft in cc with my fren and hope cc don't annoy us customer. Just settle the issue with SMM

SMM is a scam. They have connection here in Miri which sells pirate CD

Just back from a cc in Subang lah with some firends. Gamers play game also talk lah abt the scene. Everyone talking abt SMM v. Hunter. They say SMM collect license fee and Hunter also collect money from cc. Both also collect money. Ha Ha Ha!, who to believe? I will stick to SMM because at least they got something to show. Cari forum got show. Hunter, don't know why he is collecting money from cc, make money ah? Don't care lah. As a gamer I don't care but make sure cc when kena raid don't annoy us gamer lah, we r just there to play game. My firend told me when kena raid, gamer also have to give IC number n name and make sure u all bring original IC. If I CC owner, I will take care of gamer and not get gamer trouble.

Gamer is gamer, underaged is underaged. If you can access CC LEGALLY, why would scare you get into trouble entering CC?
2nd thing SMM, Cyber Cafe, and Gamer is 3 different thing when raid happen, why would you say that you get into trouble?

A piece of advice : Avoid cafe's with "free" smoking area. (I never come across that a law where you can smoke in air-conditioned area.)

My friend told me when he was in one cc that got raided few months back, he was asked to sit and wait in the cc for 3 hrs. The police ask him to give IC and full name and contact number. According to him, the police says the cc infringe EA copyright and took away computers. My friend is 26 and the police told him that he may be a witness in court case. We gamers don't like to be involved in other peoples' fight. I am just worried the trouble gamers like us are getting into if we so unlucky inside cc that kena raid. Problem is not underage but the hassle if we are in cc when kena raided. I just want gamer be careful when u see police outside cc or when u see a lot of people outside cc, cabut lah from cc. Maybe temptation1314 want to be in cc when get raided and see what he/she will face. I surely don't want to get into this trouble.

witness??? how about i say this, "i don't know everything in this cafe whether they are using legal software or not. i just pay money and play that's it."

I hope the police buy the argument that we r just there to play games and pay RM2 ph for it. I asked my fren and he said that is what he told the police but the police still make him wait and take down his particulars and said they will call him as witness when time comes. I also heard cc staff also kena the same thing. I dunno when all this going to end lah. I still go cc with all my friends but the cc staff always talk about the trouble they r getting into for their bosses fighting with Counter-Strike people, fighting with EA people and fighting with SMM people. I think it is better for CC boss to settle all these issues with all these people n pay them. I think the problem is with the money amount. The CC boss should pandai-pandai negotiate properly with these people so that they don't increase price on us gamers. Get the right people to negotiate for them.

money amount is 1 of the problem, the other one is the money was not properly channeled to the developers aka collecting illegal fees and another one is local distributor themselves are actually promoting piracy for their personal benefit - legalizing private servers and collecting fees from it. I'm applying to those who paid the sum promptly to SMM while your case is totally another story.

Strace, my personal opinon is that if these distributor do that, they must have some right if not they would not do it. I don't think they dare to do it like not paying the orang putih or dare to do the server unless the orang putih allow it. If they do illegal, the orang putih would come after them. So far they still got right every year, I think. So, I think all the problem come about because of the money amount and not whether they should or should not pay. How I wish if we can buy a BMW at Proton price. The original box set game is so expensive above $100 and the pirate is only $5-$10. If I do business, I would not buy the cheap pirate lah after kena raided. I think if cc pay promptly to EA or Counrter-Strike or SMM nothing would happen. I got a fren who settle a case with Microsoft. The Microsoft also do the same thing to private companies about the Open license system or something like that only that Microsoft is for office software and not game software. I think game software different system. Need to check with some fren.

I get your point but in SMM case its an exception because I have black and white proofs to all these claims and now working into deal with Blizzard and Vivendi correspondent. I understand how these distributor licensing works (at least for SMM because I've seen it). The rights granted to the local distributor is actually limited and cc is actually a grey area not covered in the enforcement sector because distributor license and commercial license are 2 totally different things. If follow strictly to the book, there is another company which collects club fees from cc but I'm not going into that lol. The EA/Microsoft/BSA raids are all legal, there is don't need to question their authority. I'll publish the new SMM agreement in a few days for everyone to read.

Oh and btw Hunter is hopeless. We took him for granted that he will bring salvation, now I have to do all the dirty job for myself.

and said "orang putih" are somesort of omnipotent beings that:
1) knows EXACTLY whats going on in other countries?
2) no need to bear the cost for performing international legal action
3) can do whatever they want

??

/endsarcasm

truth is there are illegal private servers thats being done and being promoted as legal/official servers and SMM is pretty much not paying blizzard jack on the "protection fees" they collected. (as far as im concerned there are no confirmations from blizz/vivendi side that they paid anythin or have the rights to go around collect protection fees)

=edit=
added in sarcasm indicator /shrug

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jan 8 2008, 09:27 AM

Here is a link to SMM's unlawful business conduct for you to grasp the situation that we're trying to discuss in this topic.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/472095

Strace, is good that you show d doc. Do it asap. We need real answer. I n some gamer fren intend to buy over a small CC of 25-30 pc but so far put on hold because of this. Want to have CC where real serious gamer can hang out n talk abt games n not allow some school boys to go in n make noise. I think the distrbutor would have pay the game owner first and for them to collect back their money through license to CC. This is what I heard today from a fren working in co selling game-card. I don't think the orang putih is blind or don't know what is going on. I think money must be paid but just how much. Many game title outside but only WC is most popular. So, that muist be why SMM license it at a BMW price and not a Proton price. I think d orang putih also know this and ask a lot of $$$ from SMM. All this SMM-bashing and discussion is good becoz allow SMM to know what market feels but then cannot break law if not get raided. Cheers to Strace for help!

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Added on January 8, 2008, 1:57 pmStrace, an Update! Just recd call from a Fren working in game-card company. He says he knows SMM staff who showed him a copy of SMM's Blizzard Agrt. He says it shows that SMM's distrbt right include cybercafe licensing. Is it true?

This post has been edited by edinhoven: Jan 8 2008, 01:57 PM

you're still going on with this kinda reply? did you even read up what strace has been trying to say? did you even take a look at his documents?

=edit=
replying to your edited addon:
dude, just read up the other thread and the documents, SMM does NOT have rights to any cyber cafe licensing. zero, nada. they have NO RIGHTS to collect ANY SORT of fee from ANY cyber cafes.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jan 8 2008, 01:59 PM

Eh Brother Quazacolt, please don't be so personal. We all want to be "very sure" when dealing with this nasty fella SMM. I am just very concern. I read the thread but still heard/seen SMM can raid recently. Recent Klang raid proof this. How can they raid if they got no right? One wrong move, finish lah. Pls understand. I can bet SMM people also look at this forum and checking up on us. We can keep on hentam in the forum but cannot do any real things. We got no real information only hear what other people say. Not enough. We all support Strace and what he/she is doing. Keep it up. Try to find the doc in the thread but cannot locate it. Can help? Can pos it again? Would appreciate the help. I can get some fren to help look at it. They work in Cyberjaya agency and meeting some of them later for some snooker. I will post their comments.

Very not true. He doesn't understand the agreement. Read properly and you will see the light

Someone in Cari forum has just posted the REAL VUG cybercafe license agreement which looks like this below:-



Take note that the 5th image is 1 of the pages in the distributor license agreement between SMM and VUG. Tell your friend to read carefully and think out of the box.

Refer link

im not being personal, just being disgusted by your ignorance.

and how could you even say "we got no real information" when strace is already posting so many hard solid black and white papers.

edinhoven doesn't know before that so its reasonable he responded in that manner. Its ok now that he is trying understand the situation. SMM can raid it because it could be true that the cc owner do not have the original copies of the game. Did I mentioned that even though you have the equal amount of original copies to your PC amount, you are still obligated to sign the agreement and pay the amount according to the fake agreement stated or else face the consequences? So what choices do we have? Buy original and pay or pay only? Which is cheaper?

BTW damn that guy who posted those proofs beat me in first, now I am uncertain whether I want to continue my effort but at least there is some development now. Respect!!!

Thank you very much, Strace. Will print it out and let my Cyberjaya fren see. Will post comments once they tell me. You R D Man! Good job, well done. Let us all hope this will settle the issues.

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Added on January 8, 2008, 4:24 pmStrace, by the way, thank you for understanding me. Please don't stop your effort. We all support you n what u r doing. You have been very fair n understanding unlike some. At least, Strace, u r being very objective and not personal in your approach. I respect this kind of people who think fairly and for all the good of gamers and for those who wants to go into CC biz. Will keep u posted on my fren's opinion. SALUTE !!!

This post has been edited by edinhoven: Jan 8 2008, 04:24 PM

no matter who posting these first, at least someone (you) is doing something for the gaming community, respect nonetheless

I still cant believe how a typical ah pek company like SMM can get distribution rights from Blizzard.

Remember what SMM used to do few years ago?
Distributing cheaplak hokkien karoke and CNY vcd, local TV series VCD, badly subtitled 80s anime, power rangers, ultraman VCD.

now that you mentioned that, i can only cry deeply inside upon this great sadness.

I still can't let my guards down until the issue is fully resolved. I've just emailed to other international distributor and waiting for reply. I'll mail the whole shit black and white to Blizzard USA via post soon. The commercial exploitation license agreement should be as simple as the Microsoft commercial agreement, it didn't stated royalty fees must be payed, instead it mentioned about other responsibilities which are not covered in end user agreement to protect themselves from stupid legal charges. I'm afraid SMM might twist certain facts which I'm not ready to disclose the ways in a public forum yet. I have to remind myself the purpose is not just to lose from SMM's bind but also to bring down the whole corporation as well.

Dear Strace, some good news and bad news. Good news, I have passed the print-out to my cyberjaya fren. Bad news is that he says he need to check with his legal dept colleague to help look into it (for free!) and his fren is on holiday and will only be back next week. Hope to received something next week. Since is free service, we have to be patience. Will keep you posted. I am doing all I could to help out. I hope others also help to check with their legal fren or people who know this stuff for some advise. TQ.

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Added on January 9, 2008, 6:55 amStrace, btw, a CC owner fren told me that Hunter asked him to pay RM3k to his personal account to settle the SMM issue. DO u know who is this Huinter fella and why is he asking for RM3k? Is he Sendi's spy or something like that?

This post has been edited by edinhoven: Jan 9 2008, 06:55 AM

Thanks for the help!

I'm not that sure myself. AFAIK he was a victim of SMM's raid and now the leader to all this anti SMM sentiment issue. He went to all the trouble from pull out a press conference, getting legal advice till getting political aid from MCA Youth. In marketing terms, having bad names spreading all over on newspaper and internet is bad for the business so that cancels out possible connections with SMM. Secondly RM3k is a 1 time payment or monthly? He probably asking for legal advice and protection guarantee fees but I'm uncertain about this part.

This post has been edited by strace: Jan 9 2008, 07:18 AM

Don't know abt this Huinter. CC fren just say he asked to pay RM3k. My fren has a point when he says Huinter could be SMM proxi giving SMM the publicity they need going to the press and asking SMM to respond and explain in press so SMM get free publicity. My fren, who has just left CC, also say Huinter fella say if we don't pay, he will tell MCA/DBKL not to renew CC license. So, I think Huinter, SMM and the MCA fella are all in the same boat trying to make money evevrywhere. Is all this true? Don't know. This world is full of traps. Don't know whether to go into CC biz n who to believe. I n some fren wants to go into CC biz because we love the games. My brother willing to chip in with some $$ but too many issues with this SMM n then EA n then CS next Microsoft. Next don't know who will come to collect $$$. Strace, we must organize something to settle once n for all with all this money collection company. Eihther we don't pay or pay. But how???

What SMM got from press is still free bad publicity. Lost an uncontrolled number of cc owner who follow what the MCA guy instruction and stop all SMM payment over a free publicity? I don't think that worths the sacrifice. Why go through all that trouble when they can just put more competitions and advertisements or goyang kaki getting their money as usual without putting crazy stunts like that?
Anyway I'll agree Hunter and the MCA guys are unethical for taking advantage by making profit out of this issue, but doesn't mean they have connections with them. So right now I rather take action than to depend on them based on these exposed documents. It is funny you see in cari forums there so many doubts from cc owners but yet most of them know jackshit about their rights on copyright and so on. Those typical chinaman logic and paranoia must set free. Sometimes its these majority people who give SMM, Hunter or even government(MCA) a free entry to their buttholes.
Usually when you open a new cybercafe, these license agents will look for you automatically so there is nothing much to worry about getting raid. Warning letter always comes first unless its Ops Tulen season. There is no reason to kill sales opportunity by going through all the legal trouble, right?

Come to think of it, u r right. SMM would not be so stupid to go to the press to sing bad things about themselves. How do these people know when a new CC has started up n for them to come to look for u to pay license agents? Maybe the local govt office informed them or maybe some CC also want to get the new CC in trouble by contacting these money collection company. I think all CC must be united and not back-stab each other. I can't read chinese but going through the cari froum with some english post, sure tell that these people r not as informed as u and the level of discussion u have here. Very good job Strace.

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Added on January 9, 2008, 10:51 amJust inquire from Software Boutique (tsb.com.my). They said they don't sell cybercafe license and we cannot buy from them and we must contact the local distributor. I guess they are referring to SMM, right? Anyone got any other distributor like in US or Singapore? Care to share their contact? I doubt by writing to Blizzard. They will probably say the same thing or shit.

This post has been edited by edinhoven: Jan 9 2008, 10:51 AM

Actually, this have to refer to other country also ...

as we know, since I brought the Billzard Ori Copy, and that's is no write down there in the CD Agreement that we cannot put it in the CC. Then we have no right to give SMM the money right. Unless, SMM have the Billazard Authorized and the Warcraft Agreement have write down, only this will be legal right.

If singapore, and other country like Korea and China also not need to do so, then SMM should don't have any right to do so. Lastly. what our minister say, all are bullshit.... They will protect the money only, just like our Sami GOD.

Yes TSB don't sell cybercafe license but we have the right to purchase the games from them. What we need is a purchase receipt, game boxes and a counter-signed copy of cybercafe agreement endorsed by Blizzard USA to proof that the cybercafe is legit to install the games. Take that PC Cock and friends!!!

Not true, the CD agreement is directed to end users. Cybercafe operators are not end users so they are subjected to different agreement which stated in CD EULA that commercial use of the games requires to sign the commercial exploitation license agreement. The problem is Blizzard will bounce all the problem to local distributor by default, thats where the local distributor starts playing dirty tricks. So what we need is urgent attention from President Mike Morhaime and if possible get everyone to sign the petition. If we can convinced Blizzard stripping off SMM's distributor right by exposing all their evil deeds and the petition to support the move, we might win the battle.

This post has been edited by strace: Jan 9 2008, 12:54 PM

Who is this PC Cock and friends?

When can we sign the petition?

PC KOK and Co. is sendi's lawyer lol
I've no experience in writing a petition Maybe 2 weeks later, after i figure out the formats and I'm expecting another anti smm news coming soon hopefully within this week.

edit:
Added other documents


This post has been edited by strace: Jan 9 2008, 05:10 PM

Is the lawyer a copyright or software lawyer? Do they know who they are dealing with? I think have to b careful when writing abt them, like NST suing Jeff Ooi for blogging on the net atlhough he has no control over what was said in his blog. I don't want after lowyat.net kena sue. We will attack and finish SMM and direct our focus on SMM. Happy Holidays!!!

The gaming industry is dark.
Most of the ppl whos stay long enough in this scene should know.

-end-

I don't know which type of lawyer he is but I'll keep on posting. It won't be LYN's 1st time anyway

According to 3rd page of agreement, its written that SMM is a limited agent for Blizzard in Malaysia which given non exclusive rights and has granted legal authority against any person or legal entity for the illegal production, modification and distribution in Malaysia. In my interpretation, the realms that SMM can touch is VCD/Game shops that sells the games, factory that produces the games, take down private server for distributing PVPGN connector hacks or take down local website thats distribute full version of the game online. Providing games to end user play for a fee is not a form of distribution but categorize as commercial use of end user product. So what we see here SMM does not have automatic legal authority against cybercafe.
If there is any legal charges to accuse, that will be:-
1. SMM is abuse the legal authority [Copyright Act 1987 - SMM is not the copyright owner]
2. cheated cc outlet of their authority by giving their own EUA instead of Blizzard/VUG's CULA
3. collecting illegal fees from cc outlets
4. approving private servers as authorized servers [Copyright Act 1987 - SMM is not the copyright owner]
5. making profit via private servers

I'm have no legal knowledge but this is as much bullshit i can make lol

Copyright Act 1987 [pdf]
Trade Descriptions Act 1972 [pdf]

This post has been edited by strace: Jan 9 2008, 06:11 PM

I always believe SMM is not the owner but Blizzard. SMM, I think, is only an agent n got no owner right. The document you post seems to say I think Blizzard give right to SMM to whack others. Maybe just maybe Blizzard also involve in this. If not, why give power to SMM? Someone stated in the forums that Blizzard people came down to Malaysia for some tournament with SMM. Don't Blizzard people when they r here know what is going on? Do SMM raid VCD? So far never heard of it. Only heard they raid cc and I think they purposely target cc. Actually, what did Blizzard give SMM? Distribute include distribute to cc? If SMM is only non esclusive n limited agent, that means other game distributor also can sell to cc beside SMM. So far, don't know who else in Malaysia selling to cc beside the monkey SMM. TSB tell me they don't sell to cc. I think I will try asking from US whether they sell to cc. If SMM cannot distribute to cc or raid cc, then got no right to kacau cc and to hell with SMM.

1st, becoming a witness is not trouble. "Except your body got sh*t"

Raid? As long as you're not guilty, then you're ok with it. 2nd thing, police had the right to remand you for 24 hour(or 48 hour?? ) without warrant. This will never happen inside house(police will need warrant to do so). So stay in house if you don't want get trouble.

And lastly, I don't see any trouble when a CC getting raided.

And don't say that I never experienced anything, I'm a CC cashier before. CC raided, I'm there. CC get robbed, I'm there too. I'm more real than you that don't have any balls to face a little trouble becoming a witness...

They not referring to SMM for sure.

AFAIK, TSB cater for mainstream customers. For cybercafes, it's through Gamers Dotcom LAN Agents: http://gamers.com.my/agent.cfm
In another word, TSB is a physical shop while Gamers is handling the distribution part.

Agree. It's the nature of entertainment business.

Temptation1314, We normal people don't want to be in trouble of any kind. I dare say I speak for the majority. We want to just enjoy ourselves and if run cc, make cc okay to everyone. U think going to Court and become witness very hero? Like that you might as well go to Court for everyone as witness and be a true hero and not just talk 3 talk 4 here. We want to make sure everyone is okay include cc. That is why I fully support those real champions like Strace. He talks sense with support documents. He talk sensible in what he is doing for others. We want to clear this problem so everyone is okay. We don't have time to go to Court like you who maybe like to be hero for everyone or seen to be hero. Not everyone like you who got many 10 balls or something like that. We all try to help out really seeking people n getting help not like you all talk only. If u want to be true hero, make sure u go to every cc when raided and go to jail n be witness for everyone and every cc. Don't just talk, give real help. If u advise people to stay in house, all cc will close no business. U SMM agent or what? Don't support cc at all.

Then can you tell me which CC haven't be raided??

You're jumping to the conclusion itself. CC get raided doesn't mean both the CC and gamers are in fault. Then try to run yourself a CC and try have '0' record of kena raided by authority.(Which I guess impossible... )

No matter how clean the CC is, they will be raided by authority one day for check-up, etc.

Temptation, I believe if cc very clean no raid will come. If they check, that is their job n cannot say you never do this or that if u r clean. So, I think it is best that we have 1 stop center where every cc can check what to do n what not to do. If they ask money to stop check, can report to ACA. This I think is a way to go. As for allow school boys in or never follow bomba laws or use cc for gambling (newspaper report), the cc really asking for it but I think this is not what we r discussing in this thread. I think no problem not allowing school boys in or follow bomba law or stop gambling. cc must follow law but here SMM don't follow law. Here, must finish SMM for any reasons.

Ask the majority....

Btw, SMM is an 'association' started from Penang if I not wrong.
Finish them?? With this kind of government?? I doubt so...

U all are very silly. Why do u think SMM so powerful? Why the problem with the licensing issue? This is because you all like WC so and too much. Change the game and SMM will beg you, stupid! My cc has changed the games erasing WC 2 years ago. We are still surviving and making some profits. Other games is also quite popular. The answer is, promote other games in your cc. FYI, SMM is not from Penang and it is not an "association". It is a Sdn Bhd company from KL. It took over business from Adspace Media, another big bully. Change to EA games. It is much cheaper.

Not sure thou, majority in Penang "black market" told me they are doing underground business there.

SMM is not powerful, but don't ask for trouble that you can't carry. Your overweight trouble might hurt your family too.

(Don't ask me who's that black market)

On the other hand, your way of handling is quite true but still on consideration due to "DOTA"
For myself, I prefer various game like COD4, C&C. DOTA is ok, but it had last too long, too long since the era of AOS.

SMM is for the DOTA and WC lovers. This is where the problem is. I have been around and kept low not saying anything bcoz there is no way to fight SMM. Why? Sometime back in 2002, I fight with Adspace n SMM. I spent close to $8k of my own money, paying lawyers etc. All wasted and burned. They got this fella call Hubei (VP) from Blizzard to come to Malaysia and screw all cc who refused to pay. I remember I was there in Marriot for the press conference. A lot of us, all cc owner, arguing but Blizzard says that is their position because Adspace n SMM have paid Blizzard for their rights and they have given licensing rights to SMM. Hubei says this is all about business and not personal fight. He even warned all cc owner to pay if not stop playing WC. I install WC because there was no other choice at that time. Have to admit only WC makes money for cc. I stop 2 years ago when other games are also doing well. I have stop using WC and still survive. My answer to all your concern is - Stop Supporting WC and if all stand united = SMM, Blizzard and their gang would all fall and die. Anyway, SMM only got 1 game, that is WC. If WC finish, I am damn sure SMM will die.

I think u gave off 2 soon. Your idea of stopping WC may make sense but to all DOTA and WC lovers, this cannot be done. I wouldn't support such a move. I also don't think cc can survive now without WC. Everywhere cc I go, I see people playing WC. Your case maybe special because your customers like other games. The same cannot be said of other cc. When u do business, your customer must be happy and follow customer demand. How can u stop people from playing WC when everyone wants to play WC? To the gamers, like most of us, WC is the game at the moment, No matter how many times u play, you still want to play. The issue is whether what SMM did is right and how to finish SMM. If SMM is not doing anything right, they must be stopped at all course. So far from what I see SMM is not doing anything right. They got no right but still act like they got right. We must stop SMM and not give out. If u have any secret info to share, please post here.

Your answer is reasonable in a business perspective but the game is not at fault, SMM is. Besides SMM won't die if WC is over. They have already collected a big sum of funds enough to buy over any popular game distributor right. It will be a never ending cycle. AFAIK there was another company called iGames Asia S/B who managed to win Malaysia distributor bid in 2006, thats where some of the true documents disclosed and enough to proof SMM can't collect money in form of royalty from cc according to law but since their version of agreement doesn't mention anything about royalty, SMM can argue that they are doing a legal game rental service. Still they should be blame for not on giving out the real license agreement which doesn't ask for royalty fees at all.

Can I have the the full name of the guy so called Hubei? Is he a chinese? I like to inquire Mike about this, thanks.

I am no longer playing this game with SMM. As far as I am concerned, SMM is no longer an issue. Since there are still many disgrunted cc about SMM, I will share some info that I know.

Hubei is a French guy and not chinese. I don't have his full name. You have to check it out yourself. In 2002, there was this cc group called Depsima led by a MCA fella from Cheras MCA called LBK, who was once Pikom chairman. He failed miserably fighting for us. He also got some documents but Blizzard kill all arguments and issues. If you are fighting Blizzard and their business policy, forget it. I still remember what Hubei told LBK in Marriot. Blizzard says "SMM doing a very good job pushing WC in Malaysia and making the game popular here. So, what is the problem? CC must pay if they are all making money from WC. CC cannot buy 1 original box and make thousands of dollars every year from it without paying SMM who has paid Blizzard in advance". We got no answer to that. We gave up. Depisma closed and everyone who forms part of the group went their own way. Like I said earlier, your current approach will not solve cc problem. In fact, you will become a target for SMM to raid. SMM will go after all cc who has not paid them or those who go against them. I took the other way out. Instead of fighting SMM, I stop SMM from attacking me. I stopped using WC. The only way is to make WC unpopular. If this happens, SMM will fall like a dead meat.

IGames is SMM's gang. They got the right because of SMM. IGames have closed and SMM took over. Before that, Adspace. Adspace got it from anor Singapore company. Never ending story because SMM would still get the right at the end of the day. SMM is the biggest game distributor in M'sia. You all have to admit it. They have money and muscles. Once you have that kind of money, you can hire any gunslinger to do your dirty job.

As for Hubei again, the last time I heard from my Singapore partner is that Hubei left Blizzard to join EA. I also heard Vivendi have left Blizzard and Vivendi has merge with Activision. This leaves Blizzard alone and they are just too busy making biliions with WOW online. For Malaysia, to them it is a god damn small market with backward technology.

My advise to all of you is that - stop letting SMM come to you. Stop SMM from having a reason to attack you. Make them a small fry by stop playing WC. Once this happens, SMM will come and beg you and maybe sell you the cybercafe license for $10.

this clearly shows your ignorance.

blizzard is still and most likely will always be under vivendi universal (or rather activition-vivendi or whatever the new merger name is)unless announced otherwise.

If that is true, there must be something wrong with their approach when Depsima plead for verification because SMM clearly does not own the copyright as the authority given was distributor licensing and whatever was stated in the agreement between Blizzard and SMM. Legally SMM is right to lease Blizzard games to cybercafe if they do not own a copy of the game per computer according the agreement between cybercafe and SMM.


Lastly I need to correct 2 misconception you have made:-
1. SMM does not sell cybercafe license. They can only charge you the process fee for processing the agreement between you, SMM and Blizzard. The proof is there in page 3. Why they can collect money? Its because SMM lease games to you. If you notice in the agreement between you and SMM, it does not mention the word royalty fee and licensing fee.

2. Vivendi didn't left Blizzard. In fact Blizzard is a division of Vivendi Games and the new name for Vivendi Games, Activision merger is called Blizzard Activision. You can check all these info in Vivendi website.

edit: change rent to lease

This post has been edited by strace: Jan 11 2008, 06:16 PM

It is up to you. Ignorance or not is also up to you. Making statement like this (someone's ignorance) will not help others in this forum who are here, I sincerely believe, to find out about things going on. I am just sharing what I know. Vivendi-Activision or not, irrelevant to me. It was just mentioned by the way.

Took me 3 years to find out and forget the pain. True or not I would leave it to you guys to find out. Make sure not through the hard way. I have left the scene of fighting SMM. I gave up because we were going no where. Money spent and burned. Time wasted and cannot get it back. To all cc owners, use other games if possible. Plot the downfall of WC and SMM will fall. They are paying a lot of people a lot of money like agents etc. I don't think they are that rich if not why bother raiding cc?

But then for everyone's benefit, it is also equally good that at least some of you all are doing something positive against SMM. I hope you all can succeed where we fail the last time. Strace is one. He did a good job by digging up the documents. The last time I heard someone were selling the documents at $3k. Did not take up the offer. Generous of Strace to post it here. SMM must fall so do Blizzard and WC. The game has just gotten too big for everyone and causing a lot of problems. Use EA games, they r very much cheaper.

this is currently the most entertaining thread in the forum. ok, enuff laffing. time to contribute.

Max7 is right all the way. the n00bs here have plenty to learn.

to simplfiy things:

warcraft 3 belongs to blizzard.
blizzard belongs to vivendi.
vivendi gave the rights to igamesasia (before 2007) and then to smm from then onwards.
vivendi gave smm the POWER OF ATTORNEY, which in layman terms is that they gave away their power to act on vivendi's behalf.
dota is a mod under warcraft 3.

so with the above u can arrive at this equation:

dota = warcraft 3 = blizzzard = vivendi = smm = the right hand of vivendi (to act on their behalf and whatever they want).

so, u think blizzard/vivendi doesn't know what smm is doing? just because they're quiet doesn't they don't.

also, many have been given the wrong misconception that smm owns the copyright, is caused by their sales team. they say they own the copyrights because its easier for others to understand. plus back then, a lot of cafe owners were not well educated. hence, people till today think they own the copyright.

sending an email to mike morhaime, y not send an email to George W. Bush while ur at it?

Depsima did what they can. They hire several lawyers to advise them. We attack SMM through Blizzard. Blizzard send Hubei, we lost. We got Pikom involved through LBK, we lost. We got MCA involved, we lost. Finally, we hold a no-holds barred meeting in MCA building with many cc owner came, with Depsima lawyers (few of them), with Copyright Act, with books, we lost. SMM came with their lawyer and argue, they won hands down. What did we do next? We go to Thailand, We go to Philipines, We go to Singapore to buy WC. After buying, they said cannot give cybercafe license, only SMM can give. Some of us bought hundreds from Singapore. When we didn't get the cc license, we sue in Singapore for refund and lost. We have to sell it quietly to some retail outlets at a discount. Retail is dead with piracy.

The documents you have, not much different from what we have the last time. Most of it the same. The limited and non-exclusive agency issue is dead. Just because SMM is a limited or non-exclusive agent for distribution doesn't mean they can't license cybercafe or collect license fee. In fact, they got the right to license cc. Just looked at the VUG cybercafe License Agreement. It is stated that the local distributor can license cc. Look at it this way, can anyone of you get a cc license for WC in Malaysia other than SMM? Can Software Boutique or even Gamers Dot Com give you such a license? No way, we tried this path and failed. The only difference is the last POA you show, that is instead of through 3rd parties like iGames, SMM got it direct from Blizzard. This only make their case stronger.

Look at Valve, same system. Look at EA, same system. Look at NewEra, same system. Or look at the music industry. Look at PPM, same system. Look at MACP, same system. The root of all evils is the game's popularity. Don't try getting help from Blizzard. We tried and failed. Some of us got an accountant to calculate how much would SMM pay Blizzard. It is about RM1-RM1.5 million a year. With this money, Blizzard is laughing all the way to the Bank! They don't do anything but just collect money from SMM. Do you think Blizzard would want to come to M'sia and face all the problems SMM is facing here? Organize tournaments? Face the disgrunted cc owners? Face MCA? Face the local Umno government closing down cc for no apparent reasons? No way, Jose. You all are living in a deluded world.

WC just got too big for everyone. WC is the problem, too popular. All cc make the same mistake of pushing WC to what it is today. As for me, we completely stop WC. Anyone asking, we just recommend them another similar game. Throw in 1/2 hour for free, they would take it. Once they enjoy it, they will ask for it. Make them a member of your cc and collect member registration fee. Give them outdated PC gamer magazine (which can be bought at great discount) and free drink, they will come everyday and pre-book computers. Talk cock with them, they will spend at least 5 hours at a single shot.

* Just don't install WC or use WC or recomend WC, all your problems would be solved. SMM got no shit on you once you do that. WC and Blizzard and SMM can all closed down* By the way, don't bother going WOW online. You only support what these monkeys are doing. Good night.

Talk and yapping in the forum doesn't a difference but legal action does. Sorry I don't send petty emails, I send legal letter to him mainly asking for cooperation and verification. So you suggest who I should address this to? Besides the power of attorney given is limited to illegal distribution, they don't have immediate authority on commercial use of their software unless with consent from the copyright owner. Its in black and white anyway so stop spin the facts.

Here is a easy pop quiz for you
NewEra who holds a few games distribution rights collects fees monthly from cybercafe in form of:-

A) Club membership
B) Royalty fees




and thanks Max7 for sharing the story. I personally don't expect great results but it should be a worthwhile experience. btw money isn't a problem.

This post has been edited by strace: Jan 11 2008, 08:20 PM

Mr. Max7, just bcoz you and your gang fail do not mean we will fail. We are all WC lovers. We support Blizzard but no SMM. SMM is big bully. After reading all the posts, I am not in favor of SMM. They think they can do what they like. We are planning something n it is a real serious one. I already ask my cybercaja fren to look into it. They are good expert giving free advise. But I have to belanja them makan. This King Kong also talk nonsense. He look like support SMM only. Gamer or no gamer, we look at cc and gamer interest. If cc raided, where can gamers go? Go home and play with your father and mother looking at your computer? forget it. CC and gamer must unite. Don't install WC, forget it. WC is for everyone to enjoy. I don't think SMM pay $1 mil, maybe 1-2 hundred thousand only and all money collected masuk own pocket. My fren say SMM boss change car to BMW and bought a porche. No money? my foot. Where the money come from? from all cc owners. All the other forumners, don't be discourage with what Max7 and King Kong say, they are mere losers. Support WC and down down with SMM! If SMM say got right, please publish it in newspaper for everyone to see, why hide? Why wait until our good Strace show it here? Things are getting very suspicious with SMM. They are rather quiet with no news. Strace, can you update what is happening with SMM? Does anyone here know whether SMM is planning anything at all? Please update for everyone's benefit. From the document I see, I think SMM got no right to license cc because like what Strace says, they only got distribution right for VCD or CD.

1 point to clarify....

SMM DOES NOT DISTRIBUTE WC ONLY, THEY DO DISTRIBUTE OTHER GAMES LIKE EA AS WELL AGES AGO.

Mr. Temptation, SMM may distribute other games long time ago like CS, like Starcraft, like Fear and some other stupid titles. All flop except CS but then when we stopped installing WC, SMM lost the CS right back to Valve.

Then another idiotic and `gangster like' company took over called eClub apparently run by some underground people with cooperation from some ex police. They copied the same "pressure and raid strategy" like SMM going for raid, charging license fee etc. But eClub was smart, they can "settle cases" unlike SMM. Once eClub raid, you can negotiate and if the deal is done, eClub will "buat tak tau" in the case and then the raiding agency will drop the case because of "technicality". I know what these distributor companies are up to. It is about money money money and $$$. EClub, EA and New Era is no better than SMM. They are all sharks.

Eclub and EA can settle cases, just talk to their people and lawyers and pay them under table, they will want to settle. My friend's cc manage to settle a case last year this way in a state down south by paying under-table to eClub and EA agents and their lawyers. As for NewEra, their games are cheap but then they don't settle cases. Not good for cc who got raided. Anyway New Era will be out of the scene soon, very soon as their games are just not in demand or popular in the market, maybe 1 or 2 games. Thats it. For nuisance sake, paying $300-$500 is acceptable, just to avoid being raided.

On an economy of scale, EA and New Era gives a better deal, cheaper fees or protection money if you want to call it, a couple of hundreds only. As for eClub, they charge $30 per computer every month. Not sure what is the current rate, because I have also stopped installing the outdated CS when eClub came knocking on my cc. Not much demand anyway these days for CS. Maybe in kampung but not in the Klang Valley.

As of today, SMM only got 1 game, which is saleable, that is WC. SMM will do all they can to hold on to this game. Without it, SMM will go bankrupt. Don't know much about other games, maybe they have some but does anyone heard of SMM selling other games? I bet nobody know. I am being practical here. SMM need you more than you need them. If WC falls, SMM will be down on their knee begging you. Some of us floated the idea before, but many cc refused. This is another major problem, disunited cc. Depsima also fail terribly because of this.

Yes, we all hate SMM. In fact I hate all of them, eClub, EA and New Era included. All are money-suckers. For business sake, we choose the cheapest because we need to have some legit games to offer and for protection. I am prepared to share some cc business ideas to those who are interested. As I will be embarking on some new business strategies, I do not mind sharing my old ideas with others as they enable cc to make money without depending too much on over-rated WC and for that matter the outdated CS.

Mr. Strace, if money is not your problem, then may I propose you do the following as a First Step. Who know the weaknesses of SMM and their documentation in reality? Answer: their lawyer. Pay their lawyer more than what SMM pay to them. Pay them quietly. Treat them to karaoke and some girls. Money and sex is always welcome anywhere. Lawyers got no ethics and has no morals where money is concern. Look at eClub and EA lawyers. They can settle cases with money paid under-table. Lawyers are sharks and they are no better than snakes or loan-sharks. Try getting that famous Singh lawyer, forget it as they know shit about copyright. Some of our cc tried the last time and pay $1k to them just to write a 2 page letter and got no results. This should entice the lawyer away from SMM and you pay them more, they will reveal the secrets secrectly to you. Lawyers are also money-suckers and real sharks in the same league as the game distributors. They work for money and nothing else. Since it is unlikely that Blizzard will share anything secret, you might as well consider this. As a Second Step, once you `kow-tim' their lawyer, next step is to go for SMM's enforcement team. Pay them some money to screw up the raids and reveal the cc targeted before raid. Money works wonder. As a Third Step, with the information you have, report to Blizzard with some proof of this. Blizzard will think SMM not doing a good job, losing` control' and then they will consider terminating SMM. Once this is done, SMM will lose all their rights or POA. `Amore' works like this. If they ask you to do something and if you don't do it properly, they will screw you unlike the chinese or malay businessman where everything can be settled with money and sex.

We did not try the above suggestions the last time as we run out of funds and with no support. We do not intend to spend any more money in this game. By the way don't worry about defamation here because lawyers can't sue as long as their names are not mentioned here. Just write generally "lawyers" and please be careful about putting names of lawyers as they will sue to protect their own namesake. Is free for themselves. As for name of game distributors, they won't bother suing you and spend thousands on their lawyers just to sue unknown forum posters. You can name them safely. Be practical about this. Good morning and good bye for the day.

Max7, what r u trying to say here? leave SMM alone? Impossible. Yr suggestion can be consider. Can Strace look into it? We must open mind to all ideas and suggestions. As for dealing wit lawyers, to me is no-no. Sensitive area because they charge you a bomb. Leave out the lawyers, is not in this topic. We go after SMM based on their document. Enough oredi. We go after SMM because they got no right. I agree with Strace's approach. If document show SMM cannot collect cc license fee, SMM cannot collect. I hope is that simple and Max7 don't make it sound so complex. To me if I m not wrong, process fee not same as license fee. SMM may collect process fee but not license fee. So simple. All we need now, is to get someone in the authority to confirm it.

Anyway thanks for the suggestion, I will look into all possibilities. I'll keep you guys updated of any progress.

Max7, r members of SMM? r u trying to making billshit here with ur stupid expierience and try to de-motivate us ? strace, edinhoven thx for ur good work here...

Strace, I will be meeting up wit my cyberjaya fren this Friday or Saturday. He say he legal colleague only come back on Thursday. He will ask him on Thursday. Will keep you posted. Must check who Max7 is. He sounds so negative. I think d problm is not so confuse like what Max7 say. It is either SMM got right or no right. If SMM no right we all stand strong and don't pay. So simple.

Just take a look at Inferno case, they bought original WC3 games and did not pay to SMM. SMM raided it but after that the computers were return. Actually raid doesn't mean they are wrong, it is actually just an investigation trial period. Don't fall for the scare tactic.

Ah, Inferno case. I have some info too. It is owned by this Mr. Wong KS gang who used to work for SMM. He was the Head Honcho of SMM's enforcement team. SMM raided them before but something went on behind-the-scene, all pc return. Good. Why am I saying this? This is because when SMM was under the management of the same Mr. Wong, Mr. Wong give no face and just raid and raid all of us although some us used original WC and CS. That Mr. Wong a real double headed snake. He is part of the SMM gang.

U know what I mean? Why Inferno case settle? Simple. Someone from Inferno told me. Not nice to give names here. Mr. Wong KS went to settle the case with SMM big boss, some Dato behind the scene. They talk and all settle. Money paid, exchange hands, pc return and settle. Why do you think Inferno can settle the case so easily? For your information, Inferno is also partly-own by SMM big boss, the Dato. After Mr. Wong left SMM, SMM must still give him some face lah being ex-CEO of SMM. That Mr. Wong is a good friend of SMM Dato. It is all a show, ladies and gentlemen.

One think for sure. If someone else other than Inferno were to do what Inferno did, you will get raided. Only exception is Inferno because Inferno settled the case behind the scene with SMM.

I took a look at the chinese cari forum. All rubbish. They can all talk and talk but nothing solid and concrete. They can get that Hunter and MCA fella to hold whatever press conference they want because they already took some money from cc and other people to take on the issue. Self-interest and misled a lot of people. The law is the law. These fella can even get arrested too for provoking everyone.

Strace, u r right. Raid is only part of the investigation. U are innocent until proven guilty in Court. You are also right, don't fall for SMM scare tactic. Please look into my suggestion, no harm doing so. What I am worried for some of you? It is because I think you guys are heading the wrong way to tackle SMM. Would SMM be so stupid and don't know what is going on? SMM has plenty of resources to check everywhere.

For those who doubt me, go ahead. I can't stop you from doing so. I am here to share info and not attack you guys. Remember I was once raided by the monkey SMM and still hold some grudges against SMM. Guess what, it was Mr. Wong from SMM and Inferno that raided me. How ironic, isn't it? For your information, I used original WC and CS at that time but still got raided.

Oh its just a Dato'. Thats no real threat then. It just cut down a major list of possible powerful candidates who might be behind the scene. Thanks for the info.

As far as I know. WC is so demanding not because of SMM's promotion. Other countries also demanding but without SMM's promotion. DOTA's playing strategy is actually making WC so demanding. So, SMM basically using Blizzard's products to rent out to CC and collect money, and use some of these money to strenghten thier power by bribing some top officers. They say CC need to pay this commercial license fees because CC using thier product to generate income. We understand that Copyright Act is needed to protect intellectual property. We all know that government is trying persuade ppl to use original products. At the same time gorvernment also urge publishers to lower thier selling price. But SMM takes this oppotunities to abuse thier power and over charge thier product. Imaging that what would happen if local Microsoft destributor as well as others software companies do the same way as SMM does to all Malaysia business companies. Rent out thier products and charge monthly fees...!!! Why we don't have complaint with other games company such EA, e-club or New ERA and we are welling to pay thier licensing fees. Why SMM comes up with so much problems to all CC. I think the goverment and ACA(Anti Corruption Agency) shell take some time to investigate this metters.

Activision merged with Vivendi, will New Era gets Warcraft this year? We shall wait and see

Just out of curiousity, how much is SMM charging for WC per month?

Updates from cari forum

According from guangming daily, the Selangor cybercafe temp. representative demand SMM to show documents which given them the authority to collect royalty fees or else they will use legal action against them.

from the end paragraph:
SMM CEO Ricky Lim replied that commercial use of software via normal means of purchasing is not a do-able, it has to pay fees to them monthly. That is why the commercial agreement has to sign and respect copyright or else face the consequences

sorry for the bad translation, i skipped the middle part


His reply is half true, there no details explained regarding the agreement. The SMM version's agreement didn't touch about royalty fees and endorsement from the publisher but still demand cybercafes to pay monthly fees, for what? Even the real commercial use agreement didn't mention of demanding royalty fees.

for <30 PC, is about $1450 /mth and 31-40 PCs i think $1850, price may slightly varies , depend on agent.

My cyberjaya fren promised to get back to us by next week say his collegue not free today. Will update.

You guys will never stop approaching SMM issue the wrong way. Like what I said before, the best way is to make WC unpopular.

You can all go and talk to everyone you wish but the end result will be the same, SMM will win.

Relying on some incomplete documents and misled others with your opinion will only make matters worst for you guys. I have seen the cari forum document. The document may be true but the opinions expressed there is ridiculous.

Since I started posting, my partners and I have decided to explore venturing into some game distribution business. We have met up with some koreans game publishers. Now, I understand how the system works. They will give you a Master Distribution Agreement outlining what rights they give you, distribution rights, sales rights, license rights, etc. Then they will give you a POA for legal enforcement purposes. You pay tonnes of money to them to secure your commercial distribution or licensing or whatever you want to call it before hand and then they will give you whatever you want. It is all so simple. Money works.

Where is SMM's Master Distribution Agreement? Strace, post it here and I will tell you whether SMM got right or not. If I am not clear, I can get someone to read it for us too for free. I can get people in the industry to tell us the truth. Relying on the Cybercafe Agreement is not enough because SMM can refuse to issue you one unless you pay them their charges. Whether or not Blizzard collect license fee from you is not relevant. The real issue is whether Blizzard will issue you the Cybercafe Agreement which they will never do so because they have given that right to SMM.

Do you guys really think Blizzard will sell you 1 original box set and forever not collect any money from you while you make money from that 1 original box set? Be realistic, man! Blizzard is a business entity and to keep them going, they need money and licensing is where the business is, stupid! You think paying $200 is enough to Blizzard while you make thousands?

Answer to all your problems - STOP PLAYING AND SUPPORTING WC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to stacy for giving guangming daily to update us . I don't think stop supporting WC is possible solution here. Nearly all malaysian gamers play WC because DOTA keeps updating and releasing newer version of thier custom map. Unless these custom map has stopped releasing and WC will eventually become unpopular and unsupportive.

We all not agree with SMM beacuse...

1) You must pay monthly royalty fees extreame high compared to other game publishiers.
2) Every month CD always same title (WC and Starcraft only).
3) Warcraft released 2003 and Starcraft released 1999 are consider out of date!!!
4) Support cybercafe using crack files (No Cd files) to run on all PCs which is sometimes very unstable.
5) Montly supplement original CD boxes 1 to 2 only with 63 PCs
6) They rent you the CDs and you must return to them once you terminate the agreement.
7) We should received "Site License Agreement" from Blizzard upon signing up the agreement with SMM.
8) They use LAW and enforcement to protect thier illegal activities.


FIGHT SMM AND STAY UNITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This post has been edited by Kent2007: Jan 20 2008, 01:27 AM

well my kai bro is cc owner they receive msg today regarding china press will post the proof of SMM scamming

See, you guys never understand the problem. WC is the big problem. As long as you want to play WC, you have to face SMM. My comments:-

(1) Monthly license fee is a commercial arrangement. If you don't want WC, don't pay. Stop stop playing WC. You think you can buy a Mercedes at Proton saga price? How I wish.
(2) You only get WC and Starcraft because this is only what Blizzard can offer you now. Other games, go for EA, E-Club or New Era.
(3) Out of date version? Same answer. That is only what Blizzard can offer you now. So, stop supporting WC.
(4) Support crack files? You are modyfying other people's software. Illegal. Not advisable. Boleh kena raid.
(5) 1-2 CD? Normal. All karaoke also don't get 1 for 1 CD in their karaoke machines from PPM or MACP. Understand the common system of business.
(6) Return CD? Of course lah. You are only getting a license to use the contents of the CD and not the property in the contents.
(7) "Site License Agr?" Blizzard already give right to SMM. Blizzard will give you through SMM. Back to square one. Common system lah everywhere. If you can get directly from Blizzard, I will buy all for my cc from you.
(8) Using law to protect piracies, normal lah. Microsoft, PPM and MACP also same lol.

All your statement susah to ikut. STOP SUPPORTING WC and YOU WILL STOP SMM problem!!!!

China Press update? We all cc owner are waiting.

By the way, I notice you guys are looking at some very old documents in 2006. Why not look at SMM's 2007 and 2008 documents? So far only see the 2007 POA. Nothing much to shout about because it has always been like that since 2002. What about the 2007 and 2008 other documents?

I also hope you guys don't teach other people in this forum to infringe the law. If they are misled, they will get raided and I bet you guys wouldn't be responsible for it. I kena during Depsima time and paid dearly for it. So, I hope you guys be careful in all your opinion and comments. Cheers to all ANTI-WC and ANTI-SMM.

erm...i think even oversea u still have to pay monthly fees for game in cybercafe.

well, its all depends on the growth of the country......

for me, i stay at home play wc3 enough, i do support blizzard...but well..playing at home is fun enough....

Just convince the court to issue warrant on checking SMM accounts then. If there were no cash flowing to Blizzard then it means they actually didn't collect royalty fees on behalf of the license owner. The POA is not collective payment of royalty fees. Simple isn't it?
While that, lets make them check ALL the other local games distributors accounts as well lol

I think if you want to keep this thread practical, better suggest more constructive options. Otherwise, it'll turn out to be just another spam thread with nothing happening.

You'll need to understand that the EULA does not cover commercial exploitation of the game. The commercial agreement does. In that agreement, SMM has every right to charge monthly fees or whatever as they see fit.

Yes, the POA doesn't specify the collection of royalty fees, but know that the POA is merely a *portion* of the agreement. The POA is standard in most license agreements that merely states SMM can take legal action on behalf of Blizzard against copyright infringes. The other portions of the commercial agreement clearly states that SMM can collect these fees.

The only thing you have to go on is whether the agreement between Blizzard and SMM provides this right. Unless you are able to obtain that document, nothing can happen. And AFAIK, most licensor agreement structures will include the right to collect monthly fees as a standard clause.

So there's really nothing much you can do, besides what Max7 suggested.

if anti WC i think is not the best option

Which is not what I'm suggesting either. There must be a source of these complains... why the hard feelings? If you make money off a product repeatedly, why can't SMM?

The way I look at it, the price seems to be ok but then again I don't run a cc. If the cc owners feel 'cheated', then maybe they should just request for a price revision or something. Surely, there must be a common ground where everyone can agree on.

This post has been edited by ZipD: Jan 21 2008, 05:52 PM

Still no news from my cyberjaya fren. I am patient bcoz the service is free. I reading all the posts. I think we can arrive some common ground. Actually I tink it is simple. if SMM got no right, don't pay. If SMM got right why SMM don't show? is SMM hide something important? SMM can show their right, is that simple why hide until today? I tink it is a very good suggestion for Strace that all game distrbutor account check to show they are really sincere trader. I bet none of them will show anything. I also bet that SMM never pay Blizzard anything.

I think it's not 'SMM got right why they don't show' but more like 'why show you?'. The agreement is private between SMM and Blizzard. If you think SMM is cheating you, then go to the Trade and Domestic Ministry and file a formal complaint.

Edinhoven, when I say common ground - I meant that all the disgruntled cc owners should discuss this among themselves and come up with a proper proposal to SMM. Not start a crusade. You mentioned seeking legal advice... is the advice based on the licensing agreement between SMM and Blizzard? If it's not, you won't find anything new that has not been mentioned here already.

p.s. Please don't label me a traitor or supporter of SMM. I don't work for them, heck, I don't even play DOTA. I'm just trying to tell you guys to think this thoroughly and not start something without getting all the facts first.