U all are very silly. Why do u think SMM so powerful? Why the problem with the licensing issue? This is because you all like WC so and too much. Change the game and SMM will beg you, stupid! My cc has changed the games erasing WC 2 years ago. We are still surviving and making some profits. Other games is also quite popular. The answer is, promote other games in your cc. FYI, SMM is not from Penang and it is not an "association". It is a Sdn Bhd company from KL. It took over business from Adspace Media, another big bully. Change to EA games. It is much cheaper.

SMM is for the DOTA and WC lovers. This is where the problem is. I have been around and kept low not saying anything bcoz there is no way to fight SMM. Why? Sometime back in 2002, I fight with Adspace n SMM. I spent close to $8k of my own money, paying lawyers etc. All wasted and burned. They got this fella call Hubei (VP) from Blizzard to come to Malaysia and screw all cc who refused to pay. I remember I was there in Marriot for the press conference. A lot of us, all cc owner, arguing but Blizzard says that is their position because Adspace n SMM have paid Blizzard for their rights and they have given licensing rights to SMM. Hubei says this is all about business and not personal fight. He even warned all cc owner to pay if not stop playing WC. I install WC because there was no other choice at that time. Have to admit only WC makes money for cc. I stop 2 years ago when other games are also doing well. I have stop using WC and still survive. My answer to all your concern is - Stop Supporting WC and if all stand united = SMM, Blizzard and their gang would all fall and die. Anyway, SMM only got 1 game, that is WC. If WC finish, I am damn sure SMM will die.

I am no longer playing this game with SMM. As far as I am concerned, SMM is no longer an issue. Since there are still many disgrunted cc about SMM, I will share some info that I know.

Hubei is a French guy and not chinese. I don't have his full name. You have to check it out yourself. In 2002, there was this cc group called Depsima led by a MCA fella from Cheras MCA called LBK, who was once Pikom chairman. He failed miserably fighting for us. He also got some documents but Blizzard kill all arguments and issues. If you are fighting Blizzard and their business policy, forget it. I still remember what Hubei told LBK in Marriot. Blizzard says "SMM doing a very good job pushing WC in Malaysia and making the game popular here. So, what is the problem? CC must pay if they are all making money from WC. CC cannot buy 1 original box and make thousands of dollars every year from it without paying SMM who has paid Blizzard in advance". We got no answer to that. We gave up. Depisma closed and everyone who forms part of the group went their own way. Like I said earlier, your current approach will not solve cc problem. In fact, you will become a target for SMM to raid. SMM will go after all cc who has not paid them or those who go against them. I took the other way out. Instead of fighting SMM, I stop SMM from attacking me. I stopped using WC. The only way is to make WC unpopular. If this happens, SMM will fall like a dead meat.

IGames is SMM's gang. They got the right because of SMM. IGames have closed and SMM took over. Before that, Adspace. Adspace got it from anor Singapore company. Never ending story because SMM would still get the right at the end of the day. SMM is the biggest game distributor in M'sia. You all have to admit it. They have money and muscles. Once you have that kind of money, you can hire any gunslinger to do your dirty job.

As for Hubei again, the last time I heard from my Singapore partner is that Hubei left Blizzard to join EA. I also heard Vivendi have left Blizzard and Vivendi has merge with Activision. This leaves Blizzard alone and they are just too busy making biliions with WOW online. For Malaysia, to them it is a god damn small market with backward technology.

My advise to all of you is that - stop letting SMM come to you. Stop SMM from having a reason to attack you. Make them a small fry by stop playing WC. Once this happens, SMM will come and beg you and maybe sell you the cybercafe license for $10.

It is up to you. Ignorance or not is also up to you. Making statement like this (someone's ignorance) will not help others in this forum who are here, I sincerely believe, to find out about things going on. I am just sharing what I know. Vivendi-Activision or not, irrelevant to me. It was just mentioned by the way.

Took me 3 years to find out and forget the pain. True or not I would leave it to you guys to find out. Make sure not through the hard way. I have left the scene of fighting SMM. I gave up because we were going no where. Money spent and burned. Time wasted and cannot get it back. To all cc owners, use other games if possible. Plot the downfall of WC and SMM will fall. They are paying a lot of people a lot of money like agents etc. I don't think they are that rich if not why bother raiding cc?

But then for everyone's benefit, it is also equally good that at least some of you all are doing something positive against SMM. I hope you all can succeed where we fail the last time. Strace is one. He did a good job by digging up the documents. The last time I heard someone were selling the documents at $3k. Did not take up the offer. Generous of Strace to post it here. SMM must fall so do Blizzard and WC. The game has just gotten too big for everyone and causing a lot of problems. Use EA games, they r very much cheaper.

Depsima did what they can. They hire several lawyers to advise them. We attack SMM through Blizzard. Blizzard send Hubei, we lost. We got Pikom involved through LBK, we lost. We got MCA involved, we lost. Finally, we hold a no-holds barred meeting in MCA building with many cc owner came, with Depsima lawyers (few of them), with Copyright Act, with books, we lost. SMM came with their lawyer and argue, they won hands down. What did we do next? We go to Thailand, We go to Philipines, We go to Singapore to buy WC. After buying, they said cannot give cybercafe license, only SMM can give. Some of us bought hundreds from Singapore. When we didn't get the cc license, we sue in Singapore for refund and lost. We have to sell it quietly to some retail outlets at a discount. Retail is dead with piracy.

The documents you have, not much different from what we have the last time. Most of it the same. The limited and non-exclusive agency issue is dead. Just because SMM is a limited or non-exclusive agent for distribution doesn't mean they can't license cybercafe or collect license fee. In fact, they got the right to license cc. Just looked at the VUG cybercafe License Agreement. It is stated that the local distributor can license cc. Look at it this way, can anyone of you get a cc license for WC in Malaysia other than SMM? Can Software Boutique or even Gamers Dot Com give you such a license? No way, we tried this path and failed. The only difference is the last POA you show, that is instead of through 3rd parties like iGames, SMM got it direct from Blizzard. This only make their case stronger.

Look at Valve, same system. Look at EA, same system. Look at NewEra, same system. Or look at the music industry. Look at PPM, same system. Look at MACP, same system. The root of all evils is the game's popularity. Don't try getting help from Blizzard. We tried and failed. Some of us got an accountant to calculate how much would SMM pay Blizzard. It is about RM1-RM1.5 million a year. With this money, Blizzard is laughing all the way to the Bank! They don't do anything but just collect money from SMM. Do you think Blizzard would want to come to M'sia and face all the problems SMM is facing here? Organize tournaments? Face the disgrunted cc owners? Face MCA? Face the local Umno government closing down cc for no apparent reasons? No way, Jose. You all are living in a deluded world.

WC just got too big for everyone. WC is the problem, too popular. All cc make the same mistake of pushing WC to what it is today. As for me, we completely stop WC. Anyone asking, we just recommend them another similar game. Throw in 1/2 hour for free, they would take it. Once they enjoy it, they will ask for it. Make them a member of your cc and collect member registration fee. Give them outdated PC gamer magazine (which can be bought at great discount) and free drink, they will come everyday and pre-book computers. Talk cock with them, they will spend at least 5 hours at a single shot.

* Just don't install WC or use WC or recomend WC, all your problems would be solved. SMM got no shit on you once you do that. WC and Blizzard and SMM can all closed down* By the way, don't bother going WOW online. You only support what these monkeys are doing. Good night.

Mr. Temptation, SMM may distribute other games long time ago like CS, like Starcraft, like Fear and some other stupid titles. All flop except CS but then when we stopped installing WC, SMM lost the CS right back to Valve.

Then another idiotic and `gangster like' company took over called eClub apparently run by some underground people with cooperation from some ex police. They copied the same "pressure and raid strategy" like SMM going for raid, charging license fee etc. But eClub was smart, they can "settle cases" unlike SMM. Once eClub raid, you can negotiate and if the deal is done, eClub will "buat tak tau" in the case and then the raiding agency will drop the case because of "technicality". I know what these distributor companies are up to. It is about money money money and $$$. EClub, EA and New Era is no better than SMM. They are all sharks.

Eclub and EA can settle cases, just talk to their people and lawyers and pay them under table, they will want to settle. My friend's cc manage to settle a case last year this way in a state down south by paying under-table to eClub and EA agents and their lawyers. As for NewEra, their games are cheap but then they don't settle cases. Not good for cc who got raided. Anyway New Era will be out of the scene soon, very soon as their games are just not in demand or popular in the market, maybe 1 or 2 games. Thats it. For nuisance sake, paying $300-$500 is acceptable, just to avoid being raided.

On an economy of scale, EA and New Era gives a better deal, cheaper fees or protection money if you want to call it, a couple of hundreds only. As for eClub, they charge $30 per computer every month. Not sure what is the current rate, because I have also stopped installing the outdated CS when eClub came knocking on my cc. Not much demand anyway these days for CS. Maybe in kampung but not in the Klang Valley.

As of today, SMM only got 1 game, which is saleable, that is WC. SMM will do all they can to hold on to this game. Without it, SMM will go bankrupt. Don't know much about other games, maybe they have some but does anyone heard of SMM selling other games? I bet nobody know. I am being practical here. SMM need you more than you need them. If WC falls, SMM will be down on their knee begging you. Some of us floated the idea before, but many cc refused. This is another major problem, disunited cc. Depsima also fail terribly because of this.

Yes, we all hate SMM. In fact I hate all of them, eClub, EA and New Era included. All are money-suckers. For business sake, we choose the cheapest because we need to have some legit games to offer and for protection. I am prepared to share some cc business ideas to those who are interested. As I will be embarking on some new business strategies, I do not mind sharing my old ideas with others as they enable cc to make money without depending too much on over-rated WC and for that matter the outdated CS.

Mr. Strace, if money is not your problem, then may I propose you do the following as a First Step. Who know the weaknesses of SMM and their documentation in reality? Answer: their lawyer. Pay their lawyer more than what SMM pay to them. Pay them quietly. Treat them to karaoke and some girls. Money and sex is always welcome anywhere. Lawyers got no ethics and has no morals where money is concern. Look at eClub and EA lawyers. They can settle cases with money paid under-table. Lawyers are sharks and they are no better than snakes or loan-sharks. Try getting that famous Singh lawyer, forget it as they know shit about copyright. Some of our cc tried the last time and pay $1k to them just to write a 2 page letter and got no results. This should entice the lawyer away from SMM and you pay them more, they will reveal the secrets secrectly to you. Lawyers are also money-suckers and real sharks in the same league as the game distributors. They work for money and nothing else. Since it is unlikely that Blizzard will share anything secret, you might as well consider this. As a Second Step, once you `kow-tim' their lawyer, next step is to go for SMM's enforcement team. Pay them some money to screw up the raids and reveal the cc targeted before raid. Money works wonder. As a Third Step, with the information you have, report to Blizzard with some proof of this. Blizzard will think SMM not doing a good job, losing` control' and then they will consider terminating SMM. Once this is done, SMM will lose all their rights or POA. `Amore' works like this. If they ask you to do something and if you don't do it properly, they will screw you unlike the chinese or malay businessman where everything can be settled with money and sex.

We did not try the above suggestions the last time as we run out of funds and with no support. We do not intend to spend any more money in this game. By the way don't worry about defamation here because lawyers can't sue as long as their names are not mentioned here. Just write generally "lawyers" and please be careful about putting names of lawyers as they will sue to protect their own namesake. Is free for themselves. As for name of game distributors, they won't bother suing you and spend thousands on their lawyers just to sue unknown forum posters. You can name them safely. Be practical about this. Good morning and good bye for the day.

Ah, Inferno case. I have some info too. It is owned by this Mr. Wong KS gang who used to work for SMM. He was the Head Honcho of SMM's enforcement team. SMM raided them before but something went on behind-the-scene, all pc return. Good. Why am I saying this? This is because when SMM was under the management of the same Mr. Wong, Mr. Wong give no face and just raid and raid all of us although some us used original WC and CS. That Mr. Wong a real double headed snake. He is part of the SMM gang.

U know what I mean? Why Inferno case settle? Simple. Someone from Inferno told me. Not nice to give names here. Mr. Wong KS went to settle the case with SMM big boss, some Dato behind the scene. They talk and all settle. Money paid, exchange hands, pc return and settle. Why do you think Inferno can settle the case so easily? For your information, Inferno is also partly-own by SMM big boss, the Dato. After Mr. Wong left SMM, SMM must still give him some face lah being ex-CEO of SMM. That Mr. Wong is a good friend of SMM Dato. It is all a show, ladies and gentlemen.

One think for sure. If someone else other than Inferno were to do what Inferno did, you will get raided. Only exception is Inferno because Inferno settled the case behind the scene with SMM.

I took a look at the chinese cari forum. All rubbish. They can all talk and talk but nothing solid and concrete. They can get that Hunter and MCA fella to hold whatever press conference they want because they already took some money from cc and other people to take on the issue. Self-interest and misled a lot of people. The law is the law. These fella can even get arrested too for provoking everyone.

Strace, u r right. Raid is only part of the investigation. U are innocent until proven guilty in Court. You are also right, don't fall for SMM scare tactic. Please look into my suggestion, no harm doing so. What I am worried for some of you? It is because I think you guys are heading the wrong way to tackle SMM. Would SMM be so stupid and don't know what is going on? SMM has plenty of resources to check everywhere.

For those who doubt me, go ahead. I can't stop you from doing so. I am here to share info and not attack you guys. Remember I was once raided by the monkey SMM and still hold some grudges against SMM. Guess what, it was Mr. Wong from SMM and Inferno that raided me. How ironic, isn't it? For your information, I used original WC and CS at that time but still got raided.

You guys will never stop approaching SMM issue the wrong way. Like what I said before, the best way is to make WC unpopular.

You can all go and talk to everyone you wish but the end result will be the same, SMM will win.

Relying on some incomplete documents and misled others with your opinion will only make matters worst for you guys. I have seen the cari forum document. The document may be true but the opinions expressed there is ridiculous.

Since I started posting, my partners and I have decided to explore venturing into some game distribution business. We have met up with some koreans game publishers. Now, I understand how the system works. They will give you a Master Distribution Agreement outlining what rights they give you, distribution rights, sales rights, license rights, etc. Then they will give you a POA for legal enforcement purposes. You pay tonnes of money to them to secure your commercial distribution or licensing or whatever you want to call it before hand and then they will give you whatever you want. It is all so simple. Money works.

Where is SMM's Master Distribution Agreement? Strace, post it here and I will tell you whether SMM got right or not. If I am not clear, I can get someone to read it for us too for free. I can get people in the industry to tell us the truth. Relying on the Cybercafe Agreement is not enough because SMM can refuse to issue you one unless you pay them their charges. Whether or not Blizzard collect license fee from you is not relevant. The real issue is whether Blizzard will issue you the Cybercafe Agreement which they will never do so because they have given that right to SMM.

Do you guys really think Blizzard will sell you 1 original box set and forever not collect any money from you while you make money from that 1 original box set? Be realistic, man! Blizzard is a business entity and to keep them going, they need money and licensing is where the business is, stupid! You think paying $200 is enough to Blizzard while you make thousands?

Answer to all your problems - STOP PLAYING AND SUPPORTING WC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See, you guys never understand the problem. WC is the big problem. As long as you want to play WC, you have to face SMM. My comments:-

(1) Monthly license fee is a commercial arrangement. If you don't want WC, don't pay. Stop stop playing WC. You think you can buy a Mercedes at Proton saga price? How I wish.
(2) You only get WC and Starcraft because this is only what Blizzard can offer you now. Other games, go for EA, E-Club or New Era.
(3) Out of date version? Same answer. That is only what Blizzard can offer you now. So, stop supporting WC.
(4) Support crack files? You are modyfying other people's software. Illegal. Not advisable. Boleh kena raid.
(5) 1-2 CD? Normal. All karaoke also don't get 1 for 1 CD in their karaoke machines from PPM or MACP. Understand the common system of business.
(6) Return CD? Of course lah. You are only getting a license to use the contents of the CD and not the property in the contents.
(7) "Site License Agr?" Blizzard already give right to SMM. Blizzard will give you through SMM. Back to square one. Common system lah everywhere. If you can get directly from Blizzard, I will buy all for my cc from you.
(8) Using law to protect piracies, normal lah. Microsoft, PPM and MACP also same lol.

All your statement susah to ikut. STOP SUPPORTING WC and YOU WILL STOP SMM problem!!!!

China Press update? We all cc owner are waiting.

By the way, I notice you guys are looking at some very old documents in 2006. Why not look at SMM's 2007 and 2008 documents? So far only see the 2007 POA. Nothing much to shout about because it has always been like that since 2002. What about the 2007 and 2008 other documents?

I also hope you guys don't teach other people in this forum to infringe the law. If they are misled, they will get raided and I bet you guys wouldn't be responsible for it. I kena during Depsima time and paid dearly for it. So, I hope you guys be careful in all your opinion and comments. Cheers to all ANTI-WC and ANTI-SMM.