TL;DR -- Ordinary guys can offer more benefits in relationship than Top guys do.

Heads up: This is a long thread and will take you 3-5 minutes to read... and probably get mind-blown by my new perspectives. hehe

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Last week, I came across this image on Facebook. I thought it was kinda true, and read all the FB comments-- mostly from men who feel



When I was younger in my twenties, I also aimed for the top 10% men. I worked hard to attract such men because I wanted to 'marry up', which was common for Chinese women and supported by Chinese parents. Those who knew me in my earlier years would know that I wrote about "How to Marry A Rich Man".

That sparked quite a debate, and now, after almost 8 years... I have a different opinion. I wanna tell the other side of the story.

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Back then, I did successfully attract several rich and highly successful men. Among them, I dated my ex-fiancé and now a new guy.

Ex was financially well-off at the C-level of MNCs, while the new guy was also internationally known in his field. Both of them were highly educated with master's, 185 cm tall, good-looking and well-built. Both pursued me first and messaged me non-stop... to ask what I was doing, how I was feeling, if I liked them, if I missed them, etc...

However, what I didn't know was... what romance novels and K-dramas showed were not real...

Seriously, girls, don't fantasise too much. I'll tell you why in the following paragraphs and burst some pink bubbles. LOL



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Some personal stories here about what I feel around top 10% guys:

(can skip if too long to read-- not the main points for this topic; just some background stories of why I formed different perceptions about them)



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Back to the topic, I do think top level men pursue their ambition and achievement with laser focus, so much so until things could get out of balance sometimes; also because they have KPIs to meet-- the higher they climb, the more responsibilities they're given, and the more expectations they need to meet from their employers, biz partners, other stakeholders, etc.

Biologically, the male brain is designed to be goal-driven, highly linear and focused, and men just cannot multitask well and juggle so many things at any one time. When their work mode is turned on, they can't think much about romance. These two domains do not merge nor interact well with each other.

As a woman behind a successful man, it can feel lonely sometimes especially when he disappears for several days up to 1 week, or two weeks with minimal communication and no paktor time, so that he can focus on his work.

Personally, I cope with his absence and the loneliness by keeping myself occupied with biz stuff, beauty treatments, sports and activities with my friends. I learned to give 20% of my time to my man, and keep the 80% to myself and other people. It is only when he is ready to be fully focused on me that I give him total attention and affection, and this usually happens when we are on vacation or weekend getaways-- which is like, every few weeks or months...

Perhaps, things might be slightly easier if we're married and living together, but I doubt so because... I would probably feel like a married 'single mom' who has to take care of everything when husband is always away for work and comes home just to sleep. This is another type of reality to face in married life.



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I did some reading, and concluded the following on why women should really try dating ordinary guys instead of just aiming for the top 10% guys.

These are the benefits in dating ordinary guys-- which is good news to men and women:

1. More Emotional Availability, More Focus on Relationship
Ordinary guys might have more time and energy to invest in a relationship. They tend to lead less hectic lifestyles, making them more emotionally available and attentive to your needs. With fewer distractions like high-stress careers or constant travel, ordinary guys may prioritize their relationships and give more time and attention to building a strong connection.

2. Less Ego, Less Pressure, Less Societal Expectations
Ordinary guys often feel less societal pressure to maintain a certain status. They might not move in high-status or competitive social circles, reducing the pressure to constantly keep up with a fast-paced, high-profile lifestyle. This can make them more down-to-earth, approachable, and authentic in their interactions, without the ego-driven challenges that can sometimes come with top-level men. Relationships with ordinary guys also often come with less public attention, meaning fewer expectations from society and less scrutiny from friends or colleagues. This can allow you to focus on the relationship itself, rather than outside perceptions.

3. Relatable Life Experiences
Ordinary guys often share experiences that might align more closely with your own, making it easier to relate to them on an everyday level. This can create a more grounded relationship where both partners feel equal.

4. Greater Stability
Depending on their job or lifestyle, ordinary guys may offer more stability and consistency in their daily lives. You may not have to deal with the unpredictability of frequent business trips or work commitments that often come with top-level guys. This can create a more relaxed, private, and intimate relationship.

5. Shared Growth
Ordinary guys might still be working on building their own careers and futures, which can lead to shared growth within the relationship. You can both build together and celebrate each other's successes without feeling overshadowed by their status.

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In comparison, these are the downsides of dating top 10% men:

1. Lack of time and emotional availability
Highly successful men are usually extremely driven, which can be inspiring and motivating for some. However, their ambition can sometimes come at the expense of time and emotional availability. Due to demanding careers, top-level men may be less available for emotional connection or quality time. They might travel frequently, have long work hours, or prioritize work over personal life, which can impact the relationship.

2. High Status, High Pressure, High Societal Expectations
Being with a top-level guy often means socializing in high-status circles, which can open doors to new connections. On the flip side, this may also come with more pressure to maintain appearances and keep up with an intense lifestyle. A relationship with a top-level man might attract more attention from the media, social circles, or the public, leading to more external pressure and less privacy.

3. Ego and Power Dynamics
Dating a highly successful man can sometimes involve navigating strong egos, power dynamics, or competitiveness, which may create an imbalance in the relationship. It can also lead to feelings of insecurity or a lack of equality, especially if the woman is ordinary and pale in comparison with her man. In the long run, the gaps between both partners may become bigger, which may result in contrasting differences that lead to relationship failures.

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To sum up...

1) I always feel ordinary men have lots of potential, provided that they are not wounded/not messed up + are emotionally available to love a woman + willing to balance work, life and relationship + have some growth mindset and open-mindedness...

Such men are more balanced instead of being at the extreme ends of the spectrum, i.e. overly successful or overly defeated. If I could advise my younger self, it would be to not be too fixated on a certain type of man, and learn to see ordinary men and appreciate their fine inner qualities... and give them a chance to win my heart if they'd like to date me further.


2) Also, I think, as women, we really need to stop fantasising about those top guys as some super romantic lengzai CEOs who have plenty of time and affection (because in real life, they don't ) and stop getting hooked to those really bad bad boys whom we think we can 'save and fix'-- because we can't unless they want.

Romance novels and dramas ain't 100% true in real life--- mostly illusions of top guys and bad bad boys. Can these men be good bfs and husbands? Of course, they can... but maybe not to you, especially if they aren't the ones pursuing you. Ever heard of the saying "A woman can't change a man because she loves him, a man changes himself because he loves her"? This is true. Men listen to and want to please the apples of their eyes, not some easy flings who flung themselves to men.


3) Ah, nice. I finally shared what I felt should do most men some justice.

So ya, guys... the next time if a girl rejects you because she thinks you ain't that successful nor in the top 10% yet, please tell her what Ralna (spelled as: R-A-L-N-A) says here and continue to 'market and upsell' your good points as an ordinary man.

If you don't know how to pursue a girl, please refer to my other guides:
How to Dress Like A Lengzai... and attract more girls to look at you
This is how I would pursue women... if I were a man

Look at the time and effort I spent to write these threads and help more single men... I'm doing social service to the country and providing some relationship edutainment when I feel bored without men but still get inspired by their absence. Solitude can be good for women, too.

The last one that chooses the ordinary guy is the truly remarkable and extraordinary one.

The rest are just selecting partner not based on their own needs and wants but rather how their selection will be judge and perceived by society.

Coming from a salty ordinary guy

Yeah, girls grow up caring too much about how people think of them and being influenced by other people and mass media.

Awwww~ hugs

I hope more women will read my post and give men chance.

This post has been edited by Ralna: Oct 2 2024, 10:03 PM

Why 99% of Guys Don't Approach Women
for ladies to watch and understand men


-- shared to me by a male forumer. Giving credits to him for making me/girls more aware. ^^



This post has been edited by Ralna: Oct 2 2024, 10:07 PM

In her groundbreaking book "Self-Made Man: One Woman's Year Disguised as a Man," journalist Norah Vincent explored the intricacies of gender identity and societal expectations by living as a man for 18 months. Vincent's experiment was driven by curiosity about how men experience life in comparison to women. What she discovered challenged not only her preconceptions about men but also societal assumptions about masculinity.

Vincent went to great lengths to create her male alter ego, adopting a male appearance with the help of a professional makeup artist, wearing men's clothing, and adjusting her voice and body language. Immersing herself in traditionally male spaces, such as an all-male bowling league, a monastery, and even trying her hand at dating women, she lived fully as a man. Through these experiences, Vincent learned that life as a man was far from the carefree existence she once imagined. In fact, it was often emotionally isolating, challenging, and burdened with societal expectations.

One of the key revelations from Vincent's experience was the profound emotional isolation that many men face. She found that men are frequently discouraged from expressing vulnerability or showing emotion, as these traits are often perceived as weaknesses in traditional masculine roles. As a result, many men lead emotionally constrained lives, unable to openly discuss their feelings or seek support without fear of being judged or misunderstood.

Vincent also highlighted the significant pressures men face in the dating world. Disguised as a man, she experienced the harsh reality of frequent rejection and the expectation for men to take the initiative in romantic pursuits. She was surprised by how daunting and emotionally taxing this role could be. As a woman, she had never realized the depth of these struggles, which are often overlooked in discussions about gender dynamics.

Vincent's experience ultimately altered her perspective on masculinity. She developed a deep empathy for the societal pressures that men face, especially the demands to conform to ideals of toughness and stoicism. Her observations highlight the ways in which both men and women are constrained by gender roles, often leading to a lack of understanding between the sexes.

Her experiment also took a significant toll on her mental health. After living as a man for over a year, Vincent experienced psychological distress and ultimately checked herself into a psychiatric hospital. This aspect of her journey emphasized the emotional cost of suppressing one's identity and living under the constant strain of societal expectations.

In conclusion, Norah Vincent's experiment offers valuable insights into the complexities of gender and the often-overlooked difficulties men face. Her experience reveals that both men and women are shaped by societal roles that can limit personal expression and emotional fulfillment. Vincent's work calls for greater empathy and understanding of the pressures faced by both genders, encouraging a more nuanced discussion about the challenges inherent in modern conceptions of masculinity and femininity.

what is the nick of this forumer ?

He doesn't want to be known here. That's why I didn't include his nickname.

This chart is sort of true, a small % of guys get the attention of a disproportionate large % of women.

Just to add that I think Its not very hard to be, say in top 20% of guys or even 10%. Just look around, the standard of an average guy in this country is pretty low. So a guy can work to improve himself and be more desirable to women.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Oct 3 2024, 02:45 PM

Yeah, we live in a third world country with brain drain and relaxed attitude. With education, in-demand skills, some hard work and connections, a man can easily climb the ladder if he aims for it.

Also, generally speaking, Malaysian women aren't as picky as Singaporean women, Mainland Chinese women and Korean women who have higher demands of bride prices and social/financial status of the bride grooms.

This post has been edited by Ralna: Oct 3 2024, 04:43 PM

That is why i never try normal dating anymore, I believe like everything soon it will be a commodity moving forward including love and sex unfortunately.

Like everything else in life, when demand and supply is not equal. People will monetise on it.

I myself given up normal dating and straight to sugar dating, and I dont think I can go back

Thanks for sharing. Interesting study. I'll get a copy to read.

As women, we are more sociable and emotionally supported by our family and friends. We share our ups and downs with them.

I'm not exactly sure why men don't have such with their own family and friends. I thought men have their own brotherhood circles/gangs...? Or are those just for hobbies and fun, but don't really delve deeper into supporting each other (probably be seen as weak in the group)?

In my personal experiences, I do know of men (either someone I know or someone my friends know) who suddenly collapsed at work or during sports and passed away in their 40s... without any warning signs. They are usually highly repressed men with stressful or demanding jobs.

This post has been edited by Ralna: Oct 3 2024, 05:46 PM

I saw several of the HOT Girls back uni and school - end up with good looking rich dudes are now single moms.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Personally, I think normal dating and sugar dating fullfil two different sets of needs and goals.

With normal dating (between mature men and women), there are deeper emotions involved with medium-to long-term relationship goals, social connections and mutual growth. It is a romantic partnership that can last for years to a lifetime. However, it also comes with lots of commitment and own sets of challenges.

Sugar dating is more to fulfilling physical needs and some emotional needs, using money. As long as a man has money, he can get as many sugar babies as he wants. Some are happy with the choices they get, while some feel the void deep down.

As to which dating mode to choose, it depends on what men are seeking in their body, heart and mind.

Ultimately, we humans always want to choose the path that makes us feel the most fulfilled, depending on which stage we are in life.

This post has been edited by Ralna: Oct 3 2024, 05:35 PM

Apart from looks what do women offer to the top 10% men?

This is quite a broad question. No two women offer the same things.

Also, top guys aren't always after good-looking women. Some prefer plain Janes.

Needs and wants change as time evolves.

Divorces are common nowadays.

Thats the wealth/career part..its just one area and probably the hardest to upgrade (takes the longest time).

But one dont need to be a CEO or millionaire to be in top 10%. There are also physical aspects and soft skills which makes a top 10% man in the top 10%. These are lower hanging fruits.

Ate they still HOT or not?

Yes, you're right. There are many ways to win a woman's heart.

The wealth/career consideration is mainly for our offspring if we want to be mothers. We want financial stability to provide the best we can for our children.

If a woman doesn't want kids, she won't emphasise too much on the monetary aspect (unless she is materialistic and wants to flaunt). Normally, career-oriented women mainly want companionship and intimacy. They can earn their own money.

still boleh pakai .

these 38 - 41 girls , usually second guys they end up with often chubby no face but quite wealthy too .