PETALING JAYA: A project manager specialist in a leading telecommunications company was awarded RM703,664 in compensation after the Industrial Court ruled his dismissal for poor performance was without just cause or excuse.

In an award dated July 16, the Kuala Lumpur Industrial Court noted that Ng Keng Seng’s performance had never been appraised as “unsatisfactory” throughout his 25-year stint with the firm.

Court chairman Zulbahrin Zainuddin instead found that between 2017 and 2019, Ng’s employer, Maxis Broadband Sdn Bhd, had said his performance “partially meets expectations” (PME).

The court also noted that Ng’s annual evaluation reports over the three years neither provided reasons for the PME rating nor listed weaknesses in the performance of duties to warrant a dismissal.


Instead, Zulbahrin said that despite being rated PME, the company had in the three reports recorded its thanks to Ng for his “contribution” and “commitment”. The court also noted that Ng had received RM26,132 as a “token of appreciation” for his efforts.

According to evidence led in court, Ng was placed on a three-month ad-hoc performance improvement plan (PIP) on Sept 1, 2020 following his three consecutive “PME” ratings.

However, Zulbahrin found that this requirement was only implemented in January 2021. Prior to that, only those appraised as “unsatisfactory” would be placed in the PIP programme, he said.

“The court took note that there was no attention to detail or uniformity on the part of management in its application of the correct PIP policy to the claimant (Ng), which had confused and impacted him greatly as the company’s error resulted in his termination without just cause or excuse,” the award read.

According to Zulbahrin, Ng’s immediate superior, Macy Ho, testified that the decision to place him under the PIP programme was made by the company’s human resources department although it had no direct dealings with him on work matters.

Under the terms of the PIP, Ng was given 12 deliverables to accomplish over and above his core duties. The company said this was aimed at improving his performance.

Zulbahrin, however, noted that Ng had written to management questioning the timing of the PIP.


Ng had said that 2020 was a challenging year, and that the Covid-19 pandemic required various changes to be made to existing work processes.

The court noted that Ng also expressed concern about his workload, especially with his department introducing a new core network to add capacity and partnering with a new vendor.

Ng had also expressed concern that the PIP programme had been imposed on him during the busiest period of the year, Zulbahrin added.

“The unclear PIP programme caused Ng hardship and affected his concentration when carrying out his daily duties. It also impeded the performance of his essential duties,” the award read.

As a result, Ng failed all three appraisals and was told that his services would be terminated with effect from Feb 28 the following year.

However, Zubahrin found that the PIP deliverables had obstructed Ng’s discharge of his core duties and was not designed to improve his performance.

“On the contrary, it had the tendency to burden the claimant, causing him to fail, and providing the company with an avenue to terminate his services,” the award said.

Ng joined the company as network management control system operator in 1995, drawing a monthly basic salary of RM2,400. He eventually assumed his current post, earning RM15,920 per month when his services were terminated in 2021.

Ng was awarded 24 months’ back wages, which after a 20% deduction for post-dismissal earnings, amounted to RM305,664. He was also given one month’s pay for each of his 25 years of service, totalling RM398,000, as compensation in lieu of reinstatement.

Patrick Tan appeared for Ng, while Maxis was represented by Janice Anne Leo, Adrienne Sena and Gurjeevan Singh Sachdev.


Some of my colleagues frequently speak badly about me.

But I think I'll just send this message to all known colleagues through WhatsApp...











This post has been edited by plouffle0789: Jan 6 2025, 02:06 AM

Why so many space. Cannot enter once only issit

in simple term -- Big Brother is watching you -- Kim Bang Non style

yes, my daughter also skip step 2, from step 1 terus step 3

usually dont need warning to go into PIP
and very often when people get PIP, they are almost sure to be terminated, many will start looking for job and leave even before PIP is complete.
rarely people come out of PIP scratchless, unless it is for wayang type, where there is a certain percentage of people that needs to go thru (bell curve) thing.

pip itself is usually the warning already

kesian TS..

but if already in PIP... standby to be kicked out sooner or later...

PIP is only an excuse and documentation proof for your future dismissal. So that they have bullets to shoot you with you unable to countersue or lodge complaint for unfair dismissal.

Sure some people do complete their PIP supposedly unscathed and continue working but those are more exception than norm. Chances are they already have the target board on their backs and is placed in fridge for any consideration for BIP.

If you really intended to climb up further in your career, then it's time to make a jump if you kena PIP. Even if you like the company/culture/environment or whatever benefits, you jump out first. Go a few other companies and build your value then you can go back to that company with a different role or position. But chances are once you're out, you won't want to go back there because the grass is always greener on the other side.

Eh isn’t tS always posting about sg PR? take note if you kena pecat need to find a new job asap or it will negatively affect your future PR renewal

u spent too much time in /k.

Usually once kena PIP, better to spend the time looking for a new job. Simply put, even if because of the bell curve, it means that the person is the lowest on the totem pole.

Company do not have step 2 or just your daugther kene skip step 2?

PR renew 5 years later......

Any severance paid after failing PIP?

Or that's what mnc do to fire staffs without compensation?

Whatever PPIP it's time find a new job

/k so many underperforming staff but still spend so much time on /k

standard SOP to goreng staff.

its not a good thing buddy

From my exp when kena PIP means they already target you. Just a matter of time.

Normally when PIP happens, they hope you will just resign then management happy. No need pay compensation.

Better start looking for new job because even if PIP pass, they will still find fault from somewhere else.

Pip = sure win method to kick u out without legal consequences.

no severance package, they will just serve you notice to terminate you, either pay you the notice period in liu or force you to work till last day, handling over etc.
life will be difficult like hell for you.

management will be damn happy because you are not able to sue them for unjust dismissal, unless you can proof the PIP is done in unjust method.
many of the PIP targets set on you, they will ask you to sign and accept in black and white, very difficult to dispute.

This post has been edited by matrix88: Aug 30 2024, 03:59 PM

usually PIP mean you already f*ck up.

find new job liao, usually only like 5% of ppl will survive PIP, because the management will make it impossibly hard to complete the PIP

if u kena PIP, means your company already want to fire u ledi, they already 'given up' on you

I never kena PIP. But my year end KPI very low. So end up im resigned and now im join gov. Salary not high but secure with pencen

I thought ppl say now no more pencen.

The survivor 5 percent can pass the target set by management?

Now no need to sign one.

They thought they are banking industry......

You received bank letter before then you will know

Management will just send it to your email inbox, and you will be considered to have acknowledged it even if you do not click to open and read it.

This post has been edited by plouffle0789: Aug 30 2024, 06:22 PM

Now no need to sign the PIP?

Now They thought they are banking industry......

You received bank letter before then you will know....

Management will just send it to your email inbox, and you will be considered to have acknowledged it even if you do not click to open and read it.

This post has been edited by plouffle0789: Aug 30 2024, 06:22 PM

In gov, goyang kaki?

My manager had his PIP redacted after he fought back with local HR.

His KPI is above average each year, good client review, no official warning was ever given, and its more toward new management personal beef with the previous management team member.

All the reasoning to get him into PIP were not related to his job scope.

Just dont sign the PIP if you think its not justifiable.

Now some MNC management thought they are banking industry......

You received bank letter before then you will know....

Management will just send it to your email inbox, and you will be considered to have acknowledged it even if you do not click to open and read it.

PIP = company wants to legally terminate an employee

No people will be survive in the company after 3 months?

Yes. For new intake no more pencen. Only kwsp option

Can. Show him improvemens/ good results.. Show boss u can be valuable to him/ company.

Not goyang kaki bro. But secure job and more benefit.

Well I was wonder why would anyone downgrade their salary to work in gov albeit the stability.

True
It is just a polite way of saying
This job not fit you, you are too lazy to work, you are just lazy, you are sux in so many level and you just wouldn't admit it
Apply any one of it. Go find new job

No free meail, no iron bowl. Work hard and keep learning new things

This post has been edited by taitianhin: Aug 30 2024, 08:31 PM

Well, you will still need to sign it, without your signature, they cant put you under PIP. But only applicable to MNC.

What do they ask u to do in PIP?

But if the boss memang jahat wanna kenakan the employee, how?

Is Singapore different in style?

My email from management just ended with this sentence:

'We appreciate your acknowledgment.'





I have not signed anything at all.

No physical letter has been issued to me.

I just received an email from the company.

This post has been edited by plouffle0789: Aug 30 2024, 09:10 PM

Manager have to justify to HR why this staff kena pip.

Lots of paperwork and justification. Not just because boss is jahat.

HR will only listen to the manager. They're all in cahoots.

5% that kena PIP actually made it through i guess, and sometimes its not because your performance meet the crazy target that they set, but because they kesian u and decide to give u another chance

they have written black and white documents with targets that u need to meet during the PIP, and even if u meet them, they still can fire u off actually and say u didnt meet the target, PIP is just a formality and to protect the company in case the employee sue the company for unfair dismissal

and yes its one of the ways for the bosses to kenakan employees that they dont like or have beef with, last time my ex company 1 staff kena, he was star performer in his team for many quarters and even won award in the company as a star performer, then one day his team change manager and the new manager didnt like him, and put him in PIP to force him out, end up he resigned also

To trigger stage 3, aka start of PIP.

Your supervisor/manager should already gave repetitive performance warning/reminder which you never heed.

This is the 'evidences' whether in past email/reviews/chat to remind you that certain things can't do or must deliver which you failed to meet.

So yeah, people who get PIP already getting warned by supervisor about their low performance. Just they don't listen and the tidak apa attitude as long my salary come in monthly.

Start look for job, there's no cap for number of PIP. you miraculously pass 1 pip (like 5-10% chance). few months down the road there can be another one. Also PIP are low performer which may not entitle to bonus/increment. bleak future in the company.

2 outcomes, pass and you stay. failed and you're out.

Throw letter

Define performance metric within 1 or 2 quarter

Like picking up specific skillet or deliverable within certain period of time

If that boss really target you .in the description he can add some vague and arguable expectation to hailat you

HR usually will side manager..unless HR feel like manager action might lead to potential legal issue

This post has been edited by fantasy1989: Aug 30 2024, 10:18 PM

Start looking for new job lo. PIP means telling you to resign in a polite way.

You make think of PPAP song only

Management didn't do anything meh?
Not question why suddenly new manager and get one of the "best" performer with PIP

My first time hearing PIP was from k/. But if I remember correctly, someone did survive after PIP.

u just summed up /k in nutshell deswai got so mani experts here with big celeri left right hand

lel

in the end management sided with the new manager iirc, and he resigned himself, im not really sure of the full details because he is in another team but i did see his name in the company star performer award a few times during townhall meetings, and one day he suddenly resigned just like that, many ppl were shocked, then i go kepoh from other colleagues what happened, and all i heard is the team change to new manager for a few months, and PIP

How's the new manager's team/department?

Yeah..... Some bosses will throw out people that won't "assimilate" with their old cultures

Had it before, jump before it simmered though

is PIP a new thang in corporate world?

i've left corporate life since 2010 lol..

I tell U, if U wanted to remove a worker due to his/her bad performance even if U did full stages of PIP also, she can sue U back from labor law.

Just happened last year in a fmcg company. The lady executive level has serves more than 10 years. Bad performance. Done PIP and paid her 1 month in advance to ask her leave.

She bohsong go labor law, company then pay back I forget 24 months or 28 months. True story because the lady company is our principal meanwhile we are the distributor

the team only he 1 person kena iirc, others are safe, i also not sure what happened between him and his new manager, didnt go kepoh much and just minding my business haha, but that incident also reminded me that no matter how well u perform in a company, also useless punya, because in MNC everyone is replaceable, the company can easily hire new staff to replace the old ones

and also maintain a good relationship with your manager/supervisor, he/she is the one who will be deciding to put u into PIP, and the HR will not question their decision because there are too many teams and impossible they go check each team punya PIP decision lol,
if u always ular but always kiss your manager's ass then he/she will not put u into PIP and put another person in your team into PIP, but if u work very hard and perform very well but not ngam with your manager always argue then he/she will put u into PIP to get rid of u lol

https://dnh.com.my/case-spotlight-performan...n-pip-pitfalls/

this?

👍🏻

👍🏻

You retired since 2010 or become boss?

TS, if you PIP means they gonna get rid of you.

Start looking for another job.

Do all MNCs Performance Improvement Plan have these three outcomes?

1) Terminate the employee

2) Extend the PIP

3) Discontinue the program (meaning the employee has passed and their performance has improved)



Third outcome cannot happen?

Cool finding but not this. Sorry I don't wanna expose company name

not retired nor become boss.

build own business.

TS u step on ur boss tail ka? Or u go atur his girlfriend???

Can, but very few gets out.

PIP is generally last resort, for company to terminate an employee while not risk any constructive dismissal, they have to show the person has really failed to perform.

If you screw up one time or whatnot, your boss usually will just talk to you and sort it out right. PIP comes in when all has failed and they want to get rid, so they will come up with a really hard target to meet (but not impossible) and likelihood if the person can't do their normal job well, they won't perform this harder target.

What if the staff just learns slowly because there isn’t enough manpower?


He never do anything wrong....


What if the staff is learning slowly due to insufficient manpower, and upper management hasn't hired additional personnel, having only hired one new person last week?


After the new staff join company ,the old staff is put on a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP).....

This post has been edited by plouffle0789: Aug 31 2024, 12:53 AM

a bit out topic
but just to give another prospective

You think most ppl in corporate are capable or qualified for their job?

Leaving corporate is the best decision I ever made
(although left the 5 fig paycheck behind)

I'm lucky as I explored
wht I interested to do
wht I good at
wht I capable to do

years before I left the company
and never looked back

This post has been edited by yehlai: Aug 31 2024, 06:31 AM

Wad u doing after you left?

Same sector?

Short answer... Nope.

In summary better find another job. Those PIP are just tools to make sure u resign

3 stage, 3 substage for each

Stage X
- substage 1 - set improvement plan
- substage 2 - monitoring
- substage 3 - evaluation - continue with next stage (still problematic) or exit the system (improved)

each stage last for 3 months, so employee have 9 months to improve

in last stage, Stage 3, if still problematic, the employee will received surat dinasihatkan berhenti

This post has been edited by WinkyJr: Aug 31 2024, 08:25 AM

No counseling stage first?

Many companies only have Stage 1 for 3 months.
Stage 2 happens at the same time as Stage 1.

I think Stage 3 is just 1 day, which is 3 months later.


If the company issues a letter advising the employee to resign, I believe this act constitutes a violation of labor law.

This post has been edited by plouffle0789: Aug 31 2024, 08:30 AM

When there is pip, there is no violation of law.

And for me there is no counseling stage. If I want to get an idiot out of my team, I just issue him pip and for sure he will be gone. No way he can meet the expectations I set. Been there, done that. That's the power of pip.

Different 🙂

You are manager in your company?

Now I will just stay 3 months exactly ,see what is the outcome....


My PIP do not write any possible outcome.




Do all MNCs Performance Improvement Plan have these three outcomes?

1) Terminate the employee

2) Extend the PIP

3) Discontinue the program (meaning the employee has passed and their performance has improved)

And your company email will not state these 3 outcomes right?

This post has been edited by plouffle0789: Aug 31 2024, 09:12 AM

Brave and bold decision!


May I ask at what age you decided to change sectors?

bro wake up, manager will have sufficient 'evidences' before trigger the PIP which is a formality process to terminate you.

End of PIP, failed will result in termination. Literally you're fired, get out.

don't be delusional, no such thing as letter advice you to resign if failed PIP.

3 months to resign gracefully and get a new job or failed the PIP, get terminated and leave a bad record. easy choice.

Sounds like k/ poster. All not their fault but only they kena PIP.

Insaf la.

last time 2017 when every Oil & Gas company letting go people buy lazy to give MSS/VSS first, this are their tools to discriminate workers, to lets them resigned on own. so TS, if ur permanent, just stay until get MSS/VSS. Else take linkedin to find new job

But the new company won’t know if you have a bad record with the old company, right?



This post has been edited by plouffle0789: Aug 31 2024, 11:18 AM

They have already given this PIP letter.

Will they still offer MSS/VSS?

This post has been edited by plouffle0789: Aug 31 2024, 11:17 AM

Those under PIP generally won't be offered this. There is a payment associated with MSS/VSS.

PIP I can get rid of them at no cost.

People usually resign before end of PIP, because it goes into permanent record so if your new employer calls HR to ask why you resigned, they can officially say you failed PIP, thus telling your potential new employer you failed to perform.

nope usually new company not to rajin to call previous company for this hassle pip thing. Unless ur selected for IV, mean they already verbally accept u r the suitable candidates.

still eligible. should get 1 month salary x how many years u served the company. unless u resign ownself, then not eligible to get.

counseling should be in your regular 1:1

then once your boss tell you ..i feel like your performance is not up to speed.. PIP might be given if you continue behave like that

consider stage 2 verbal warning

Or company can ask you work for 1 more month like serve the notice period?

This post has been edited by plouffle0789: Aug 31 2024, 11:48 AM

My company management didn’t provide any counseling.


The 1-to-1 meeting with me and the management was just a casual chat about some work issues.

The next day, a PIP letter was sent to me.

Damn, this company.

This post has been edited by plouffle0789: Aug 31 2024, 11:50 AM

u should ask him regularly on his opinion on your performance or got any concern or not

if he diam diam say ok ok ok then last min PIP ; u can challenge him

Or in another word, the company don't really like you and probably think they hired wrong person

If HR colludes with management, how can we challenge them?

This post has been edited by plouffle0789: Aug 31 2024, 12:04 PM