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 How to deal with medical insurance repricing?

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batman1172
post Sep 1 2024, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(contestchris @ Sep 1 2024, 03:48 PM)
As a standalone product, they are exactly the same.

But life insurers can bundle medical plans with Traditional insurance (Par / Non-Par) or ILP, which general insurers cannot.
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Product offered by general insurance no guarantee renewal right?
Wedchar2912
post Sep 1 2024, 06:23 PM

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QUOTE(batman1172 @ Sep 1 2024, 05:17 PM)
Product offered by general insurance no guarantee renewal right?
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guaranteed renewal doesn't mean the price will not go up by a lot...
ZZMsia
post Sep 4 2024, 08:33 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Jan 10 2024, 05:56 PM)
Honest answer. Not trolling
1. Switch funds. Ideally choose one with US exposure, minimal china and Malaysia exposure.
2. Go standalone route (that way you get rid of the baggage of lousy underperforming funds), you only get the repricing for medical inflation part. I don't hear standalone people complaining. Only ILP
3. Use gathercare if you are stil eligible (this one no repricing as not insurance and not for profit I think)
4. Switch to more expensive room plan. I already showed you the higher tier insurance usually kena less repricing Vs lower and mid tier.
5. Self insure. Set aside a fund, every month put in money into that investment. Money used for insurance premium divert it there. Can be very simple. Say your investment fund consist of public bank and Maybank stock As long as you never draw down the fund it will keep increasing vs insurance. Unlikely you will use insurance now. Likely going to use it in your 60s or 70s. That time substantial amount unless you are in 50s. If you are able to get 6 digit of passive income a year, what medical insurance do you need?
6. Govt hospital. But need to wait your turn, cramp with people and lower down service to B40 lifestyle.
7. Do a top-up lump-sum into your ILP say RM50-100k and it will stop the hike for a while. Not a route I want to take. This was advise to me by my agent when I asked about ILP. She said ILP will always increase  in price and buy topping up lump-sum l, it will increase sustainability. Your money, your call.
I also kena conned. After doing research found out buy early or late more or less the same. Lol. But I buy now cause I know will use it in the future. Cause if you get illness already, too late to buy insurance already.
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Standalone also has repricing FYI.

ZZMsia
post Sep 4 2024, 08:37 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Jan 10 2024, 07:48 PM)
I had heard stories of waiting lists of some normal emergencies like stent procedures can be long in govt hospital
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This is true, happened to my cousins friend . 6 months waiting and last monday was procedure date.. lucky he did not have another heart attack.

LiQuID2
post Sep 4 2024, 08:39 PM

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It happen to all medical card insurance. It hike due to inflation
Ramjade
post Sep 5 2024, 07:09 AM

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QUOTE(ZZMsia @ Sep 4 2024, 08:33 PM)
Standalone also has repricing FYI.
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Yes. But not subjected to most of the time non performing funds.
Hence only you get hit by the insurance part and not hit 2x (fund not performing and insurance part)

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Sep 5 2024, 07:20 AM
MUM
post Sep 5 2024, 07:25 AM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 5 2024, 07:09 AM)
Yes. But not subjected to most of the time non performing funds.
Hence only you get hit by the insurance part and not hit 2x (fund not performing and insurance part)
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If what you said is true, ...
Then, during the good days,
The ilp products will hv lower premium increases bcos the funds performed well?

Standalone will hv higher quantum of premium increase due to the insurer did not pay more "in advance".
Susah sekarang senang kemudian.

This post has been edited by MUM: Sep 5 2024, 07:29 AM
Ramjade
post Sep 5 2024, 07:35 AM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Sep 5 2024, 07:25 AM)
If what you said is true, ...
Then, during the good days,
The ilp products will hv lower premium increases bcos the funds performed well?

Standalone will hv higher quantum of premium due to the insurer did not pay more "in advance".
Susah sekarang senang kemudian.
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Very easy only. Every time the fund not performing well they can increase the premium and give excuse insurance not sustainable. I don't want them to give me that reason to hike my premium.

Now do you want to be subjected to that excuse like every year (cause the fund is like dead weight over long term)? I don't. I rather get hit on the insurance part. They cannot give me BS oh fund not performing so not sustainable excuse to raise my premium as I don't have any fund for them to manage.biggrin.gif

If fund not performing, fire the fund manager and not ask the one buying insurance to pay for the losses.

You do you. I do mine.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Sep 5 2024, 07:40 AM
MUM
post Sep 5 2024, 07:42 AM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 5 2024, 07:35 AM)
Very easy only. Every time the fund not performing well they can increase the premium and give excuse insurance not sustainable. I don't want them to give me  that reason to hike my premium.

Now do you want to be subjected to that excuse like every year (cause the fund is like dead weight over long term)? I don't. I rather get hit on the insurance part. They cannot give me BS oh fund not performing so not sustainable excuse to raise my premium as I don't have any fund for them to manage.biggrin.gif

If fund not performing, fire the fund manager and not ask the one buying insurance to pay for the losses.
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Have you actually made a comparison between ilp and not ilp (standalone) of a same or similar product?
Get the projection premium tables of each of them may hv better view

This post has been edited by MUM: Sep 5 2024, 07:43 AM
Ramjade
post Sep 5 2024, 07:44 AM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Sep 5 2024, 07:42 AM)
Have you actually made a comparison between ilp and not ilp (standalone) of a same or similar product?
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Of course. I found out ILP cheaper. But after hearing about "voluntary top-up" and making it sustainable than both came to more or less the same thing.

It's simple crude excel file of using the projected premium they give.

But like I said I don't want them to give me that excuse to cannot sustain.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Sep 5 2024, 07:54 AM
MUM
post Sep 5 2024, 07:54 AM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 5 2024, 07:44 AM)
Of course. I found out ILP cheaper. But after hearing about "voluntary top-up" and making it sustainable than both came to more or less the same thing.

It's simple crude excel file of using the projected premium they give.
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Isn't it better to hv "voluntary top up" option given then no voluntary top up option given?
In no voluntary top up option, one only get to hv "pay this increased amount or else, ......."
nexona88
post Sep 5 2024, 09:08 AM

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All these need to blame ourselves too... Not purely on hospital & insurance companies...

Small matter go private hospitals... Check in few days... Private hospital see you got insurance coverage... What else... Charge fee kaw2 one until cannot recognized 😁


Ramjade
post Sep 5 2024, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Sep 5 2024, 07:54 AM)
Isn't it better to hv "voluntary top up" option given then no voluntary top up option given?
In no voluntary top up option, one only get to hv "pay this increased amount or else, ......."
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Tell me why should I pay extra for incompetence of the insurance company?

Do you think it's voluntary? It's more like being forced. If you don't pay your age sustainability decrease. Does that sound voluntary to you? If you don't top-up and no issue happen then it is voluntary.

Also like I mentioned, Every time fund making losses I have to increase my premium? Eventually the amount of top-up/increase premium will get excessive.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Sep 5 2024, 01:30 PM
MUM
post Sep 5 2024, 03:14 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 5 2024, 12:46 PM)
Tell me why should I pay extra for incompetence of the insurance company?

Do you think it's voluntary? It's more like being forced. If you don't pay your age sustainability decrease. Does that sound voluntary to you? If you don't top-up and no issue happen then it is voluntary.

Also like I mentioned, Every time fund making losses I have to increase my premium? Eventually the amount of top-up/increase premium will get excessive.
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Don't you realised that, once you buy medical insurances, you will be subjected to the mercy of the insurance in terms of premium increases.
You cannot run away. Be it voluntary or not. You will still be at their mercy.
Does not matter, Whether they are competence or not as there will be frequent periodic premium increases.

Standalone also cannot runaway from their frequent forced upon you the premium increases.

Ha ha ha.

This post has been edited by MUM: Sep 5 2024, 03:25 PM
Ramjade
post Sep 5 2024, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Sep 5 2024, 03:14 PM)
Don't you realised that, once you buy medical insurances, you will be subjected to the mercy of the insurance in terms of premium increases.
You cannot run away. Be it voluntary or not. You will still be at their mercy.
Does not matter, Whether they are competence or not as there will be frequent periodic premium increases.

Standalone also cannot runaway from their frequent forced upon you the premium increases.

Ha ha ha.
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Bro I don't think you get my point.
Standalone you are only dealing with 1 point of increase in premium.
ILP you are faced with 2.
Insurance and fund not performing part. It matters if they are competent or not. Cause if a fund manager is competent, the ILP is paying for your insurance. If a fund manager is not competent, you have to pay for insurance and losses of the fund
If you have looked at the fund performance across most of the ILP (AIA, GE, prudential, allianz, Manulife, Tokyo marine) for past 10 years you will be very worried and won't even want to park your money with them.
Actually there is another one. Management fees of around 1.5%p.a

So don't laugh too early.


MUM
post Sep 5 2024, 04:51 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 5 2024, 04:45 PM)
Bro I don't think you get my point.
Standalone you are only dealing with 1 point of increase in premium.
ILP you are faced with 2.
Insurance and fund not performing part. It matters if they are competent or not. Cause if a fund manager is competent, the ILP is paying for your insurance. If a fund manager is not competent, you have to pay for insurance and losses of the fund
If you have looked at the fund performance across most of the ILP (AIA, GE, prudential, allianz, Manulife, Tokyo marine) for past 10 years you will be very worried and won't even want to park your money with them.
Actually there is another one. Management fees of around 1.5%p.a

So don't laugh too early.
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Ilp you pay more to hv the sustainability to be longer too.
Standalone you dont pay more, so you will hv greater quantum of increases when compared with ilp.

This ilp and standalone pro and con had been argued in details many times before, yet you still dont get it

Btw, you brought up the voluntary top up and forced ....
Both ilp and standalone will also have force upon premium increases.
Ilp hv "voluntarily top up" to prolong the sustainability. Standalone has this option?


This post has been edited by MUM: Sep 5 2024, 04:57 PM
Ramjade
post Sep 5 2024, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Sep 5 2024, 04:51 PM)
Ilp you pay more to hv the sustainability to be longer too.
Standalone you dont pay more, so you will hv greater quantum of increases when compared with ilp.

This ilp and standalone pro and con had been argued in details many times before, yet you still dont get it

Btw, you brought up the voluntary top up and forced ....
Both ilp and standalone will also have force upon premium increases.
Ilp hv "voluntarily top up" to prolong the sustainability. Standalone has this option?
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Let me put it straight by giving you a very easy example.

Insurance increase regardless standalone or ILP for simplicity sake increase RM10/3 years.

ILP increase say RM5/2y for bad performance.
1y no increase
2y RM5 for ILP
3y RM15 total for ILP 10 for standalone
4y RM20 total for ILP
5y no increase
6y RM35 total for ILP 20 for standalone
Get my point?

So my point is why should I take on the extra RM5 incurred by the ILP for bad performance?

Another example
My friend borrow my car. He kena saman. I need to pay his saman. Why should I pay his saman? Just because he used my car?
I should be paying for my saman and not his saman. Same thing. If you like to pay for other people saman, be my guest. 😂

Who cares about voluntary top-up for standalone? You can choose to pay until what age you want. If you can't afford to pay premium for that year, it's gone. Bye bye. Simple.
Next year you know already roughly say, I need to pay around say 7k, need 1y to get 7k. Let's make it 10k. Budget the 10k ready.
Eg, you plan to cover until 70. At 60 years old you can't pay. Then bye bye.
As long as can pay you can continue paying until 99 years old.

ILP if you refuse to increase premium, your coverage duration decrease. Same thing. If you plan to cover until say 70 years old, insurance company keep increasing premium and you already on the lowest tier plan and can't downgrade anymore, like it or don't like it, your coverage ends at 60 (likely sooner) once the fund have no more cash value cause you need to pay to keep the investment part active. So at age 60, if you cannot do volunteer top-up, your insurance ends at 60 year old. End of story.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Sep 5 2024, 05:24 PM
MUM
post Sep 5 2024, 06:10 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 5 2024, 05:16 PM)
Let me put it straight by giving you a very easy example.

Insurance increase regardless standalone or ILP for simplicity sake increase RM10/3 years.

ILP increase say RM5/2y for bad performance.
1y no increase
2y RM5 for ILP
3y RM15 total for ILP 10 for standalone
4y RM20 total for ILP
5y no increase
6y RM35 total for ILP 20 for standalone
Get my point?

So my point is why should I take on the extra RM5 incurred by the ILP for bad performance?

Another example
My friend borrow my car. He kena saman. I need to pay his saman. Why should I pay his saman? Just because he used my car?
I should be paying for my saman and not his saman. Same thing. If you like to pay for other people saman, be my guest. 😂

Who cares about voluntary top-up for standalone? You can choose to pay until what age you want. If you can't afford to pay premium for that year, it's gone. Bye bye. Simple.
Next year you know already roughly say, I need to pay around say 7k, need 1y to get 7k. Let's make it 10k. Budget the 10k ready.
Eg, you plan to cover until 70. At 60 years old you can't pay. Then bye bye.
As long as can pay you can continue paying until 99 years old.

ILP if you refuse to increase premium, your coverage duration decrease. Same thing. If you plan to cover until say 70 years old, insurance company keep increasing premium and you already on the lowest tier plan and can't downgrade anymore, like it or don't like it, your coverage ends at 60 (likely sooner) once the fund have no more cash value cause you need to pay to keep the investment part active. So at age 60, if you cannot do volunteer top-up, your insurance ends at 60 year old. End of story.
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Thank you for the story.

It would be more convincing and beneficial if, ...

you can made a comparison between ilp and not ilp (standalone) of a same or similar product.
Get the projection premium tables of each of them may hv better view.
those premium to be paid projection table usually come with the plan.
They are just a guide, but a guide is better that don't hv and based on just assumptions.

I hv some standalone medical plans for decades and realised that the premium will become unaffordable in future when my age catches up with it.

I experienced that standalone plans had large quantum of increases (much higher than the projected rate table) and was told by many that ilp product will not hv so nasty quantum of rate of increases

This post has been edited by MUM: Sep 5 2024, 06:49 PM
Ramjade
post Sep 5 2024, 07:30 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Sep 5 2024, 06:10 PM)
Thank you for the story.

It would be more convincing and beneficial if, ...

you can made a comparison between ilp and not ilp (standalone) of a same or similar product.
Get the projection premium tables of each of them may hv better view.
those premium to be paid projection table usually come with the plan.
They are just a guide, but a guide is better that don't hv and based on just assumptions.

I hv some standalone medical plans for decades and realised that the premium will become unaffordable in future when my age catches up with it.

I experienced that standalone plans had large quantum of increases (much higher than the projected rate table) and was told by many that ilp product will not hv so nasty quantum of rate of increases
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All insurance plan will increase drastically as you age. Cannot run a way or avoid or slow it down even with ILP. That's why I said will come a time when the yearly premium > more the premium you paid in a year. When that happens, the insurance company will start selling your investment and then your fund will start being sold down. If a time comes when the fund is zero or less than the premium needed to pay for the insurance, you have top-up the balance or else the insurance will lapse and then it's bye bye.

So that's why I said for this kind of thing, make sure you have free cash flow coming in. If you can generate say 100k/year from investment, you can afford whatever premium the insurance company is asking at that time.

Can that be done? Yes. I have seen financial bloggers in Singapore and US doing that. All have 6 digit of passive income coming in every year. Some around SGD200-300k/year!!!

That's why I try my best to generate min 100k p.a in dividend income and another 100k p.a via semi passive income (selling options).
My options part more or less settle (I can reach like 90k p.a)

So be brave. Don't try to think of ways to run away. Just accept it. Prepare for it.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Sep 5 2024, 07:38 PM
p0wer2003
post Oct 18 2024, 11:30 PM

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Today another price hike in Preudential premium

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