Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages  1 2 3 >Bottom

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 How to deal with medical insurance repricing?

views
     
Ramjade
post Jan 10 2024, 05:56 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(contestchris @ Jan 10 2024, 04:09 PM)
For the second time in 3 years, I’ve received a letter on the increase in cost of insurance for my ILP’s medical plan. The quantum of increase is rather steep at 35%! This has resulted in increases to my monthly premium.

From what I gather, this will likely continue happening every 3 years or so. The future quantum of increase might well be higher than 35% as the good risks depart the medical plan and the bad risks (with substandard health resulting in high claims) remain.

What’s the best way to deal with this issue? It seems like the sustainability projections at the start of the policy are a joke and wholly useless as in just a few short years, there have been multiple repricing exercises and the premiums have been increasing.
*
Honest answer. Not trolling
1. Switch funds. Ideally choose one with US exposure, minimal china and Malaysia exposure.
2. Go standalone route (that way you get rid of the baggage of lousy underperforming funds), you only get the repricing for medical inflation part. I don't hear standalone people complaining. Only ILP
3. Use gathercare if you are stil eligible (this one no repricing as not insurance and not for profit I think)
4. Switch to more expensive room plan. I already showed you the higher tier insurance usually kena less repricing Vs lower and mid tier.
5. Self insure. Set aside a fund, every month put in money into that investment. Money used for insurance premium divert it there. Can be very simple. Say your investment fund consist of public bank and Maybank stock As long as you never draw down the fund it will keep increasing vs insurance. Unlikely you will use insurance now. Likely going to use it in your 60s or 70s. That time substantial amount unless you are in 50s. If you are able to get 6 digit of passive income a year, what medical insurance do you need?
6. Govt hospital. But need to wait your turn, cramp with people and lower down service to B40 lifestyle.
7. Do a top-up lump-sum into your ILP say RM50-100k and it will stop the hike for a while. Not a route I want to take. This was advise to me by my agent when I asked about ILP. She said ILP will always increase in price and buy topping up lump-sum l, it will increase sustainability. Your money, your call.

QUOTE(zero5177 @ Jan 10 2024, 05:02 PM)
And they always say, buy early to prevent price hike  laugh.gif

In reality when during entry they already fully calculated everything be it u come in early or late all cost factored.
*
I also kena conned. After doing research found out buy early or late more or less the same. Lol. But I buy now cause I know will use it in the future. Cause if you get illness already, too late to buy insurance already.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jan 10 2024, 06:38 PM
Ramjade
post Jan 10 2024, 06:46 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(zero5177 @ Jan 10 2024, 06:42 PM)
Yeah agree it is always about coverage, never about being cheaper to start early.

heck even my newborn daughter cost as much as mine with lower coverage, who says younger cheaper lol.

Speaking of the investment link they said it is compulsory for medical card package, my way of dealing with it is going for the fund with lowest return so I can get better plan with same premium.

Is this the right way to deal with these? since the forecasted return is variable I think it may not worth it.
*
Actually you want fund with the highest return cause poor performance of fund will cause the insurance company to keep asking you for money cause your sustainability is affected with low returns fund.
Not true. You can buy standalone. I did. Of course when I ask for standalone insurance, all the agent showed me sour face except one.
Ramjade
post Jan 10 2024, 06:49 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(MUM @ Jan 10 2024, 06:22 PM)
Regarding ILP vs STANDALONE.

This is a data that I got for standalone plan...just for discussion sake

I don't hv the ILP version,....I only got the data for the standalone plan.
In 2011 age 39, premium was 930
In 2024, age 52, premium is 3430

For a coverage of 300k lifetime.

In 13 years, the quantum of increase is just staggering ....$2500 or 268.8% increases.
( every year about 20% increase??)

Looking at the quantum of rate increases, I believes the premium may reach 5k in another 5 yrs at age 57, then may even reach 10k at 68.
The chances of needing medical claims would be alot higher at age 68....insurance company will be happy I cannot continue to afford paying the premium ...

If one is not wealthy, .... May really "eats" into the budget of the retirement plan.

I always envy those that had bought the 1 mil standalone med coverage at young age....hopefully they can hv the mean to sustain it before they die

Just hopefully someone can provides comparison of the quantum of rate increases of ILP Vs STANDALONE plan .

What is lower cost or cheap to buy now may not be so after the premium increases...
*
The price increase when old is insurance way of being polite and tell you to get the f**k off. We have milk you enough now we don't want to pay. If you want to continue, kindly pay up.

No other way. Only way is if Tnb is your boss. They cover you until you die.

I have shared even actuarist avoid ILP. People who design ILP literally avoid ILP. You know something is wrong.

Try to talk to agent and see if you can get better plan. As long as still healthy can jump to new plan every 10 years.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jan 10 2024, 06:53 PM
Ramjade
post Jan 10 2024, 09:15 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(MUM @ Jan 10 2024, 07:07 PM)
There are always will be someone going against any topic.

Just because of some "certified" people says it is good...do you fall for it that that things really suits you?

Just bcos some actuaries or doctors says it is good...
*
Bro, even FIRE bloggers in Singapore also advised against taking ILP. These people got nothing to sell me. No course. They just blog to share experiences.

QUOTE(koaydarren @ Jan 10 2024, 07:11 PM)
Agents are busying using your premium to fly here and there. The best way is to avoid agent, buy online directly from the insurance company. Be aware of agents sweet talk, just buy the basic. Reduce unnecessary premium. Just buy another plan from another company. Or coz ur agents will black face and tell u that u will waste ur current plan becoz u already bought it early.
*
I wish that is true. Medical insurance with limit of rm1m+ need to go via agent. Those no need medical insurance usually limit is RM100k+.

Also the only insurance with 1m+ limit which don't need agent is Fi.life (partner with Generally Malaysia)
Ramjade
post Jan 10 2024, 09:22 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(MUM @ Jan 10 2024, 09:19 PM)
go look for the statistic of insurance sales of ILP vs standalone....
perhaps can get more input

they have nothing to sell to you but they may not provides the FULL pictures...
*
ILP sells.

They memang got nothing to sell. In fact people who follow these financial bloggers end up better than asking banks or agents or financial planner. I have been seeing their posting for years already. They are legit. Really nothing to sell you and they explained their reasoning why they choose to avoid ILP. Why they invest this way, etc.

You seems very pro ILP and agents. Lol.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jan 10 2024, 09:23 PM
Ramjade
post Jan 10 2024, 09:24 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(MUM @ Jan 10 2024, 09:22 PM)
they memang have nothing to sell to you but they may not provides the FULL pictures...

just like some people that from their "experience" promotes money games or stock trading or forex tradings etc etc....
they don't sell those products to you,...but they may not provides the FULL pictures
*
Is teaching people how to plan their own financial journey or investing in diversified etf not provide full picture? I think they provide more than enough picture.
Ramjade
post Jan 10 2024, 10:02 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ Jan 10 2024, 09:47 PM)
agents obviously prefer to sell ILP due to the commission payout to them. No need to waste time in trying to figure this part out. and naturally insurance firms prefer ILP as it gets to grow its asset management biz as well.
*
Yup regardless of fund making or not making money, get paid asset under management fees. biggrin.gif

The loser is the buyer. That's why invest in asset company and insurance company. Turn the cash register around.
Ramjade
post Jan 10 2024, 11:15 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(contestchris @ Jan 10 2024, 10:35 PM)
user posted image

This succinctly captures the vicious cycle! It's a death spiral I'm sure!
*
Now you know why I said if still healthy just change new insurance every 10y. It reach a time where you cannot change anymore (once you got some illness)
Ramjade
post Jan 10 2024, 11:37 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(zstan @ Jan 10 2024, 11:33 PM)
why are you comparing singapore to malaysia?  rclxub.gif  we have different healthcare systems
*
Health system maybe different but principal behind insurance is more or less the same.

They also kena repricing like crazy cause everyone admit because of insurance.

QUOTE(zstan @ Jan 10 2024, 11:29 PM)
ILP supposed to sustain the same premium for the number of years promised in the policy. outdated insurance policies should be dumped and renewed. either new policy or change insurance company.
*
In theory. In reality nope.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jan 10 2024, 11:38 PM
Ramjade
post Jan 11 2024, 12:37 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(zstan @ Jan 10 2024, 11:45 PM)
standalone is worse cause they have no buffer. that's why you only cancel the old insurance after the new insurance has passed probation to prevent any lapses.
*
QUOTE(MUM @ Jan 11 2024, 12:00 AM)
that means you will have paid 2 insurance premiums for that period.. perhaps 2 years of contestability period?
*
Yes that's right. Or if you are brave just cancel the old one and buy new one and use govt hospital while waiting for the new medical insurance to mature and then you will be covered.
Ramjade
post Jan 11 2024, 06:46 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(Holocene @ Jan 11 2024, 06:26 AM)
Get a deductible plan.
*
Won't help much. It just help to lower the premium paid but will still be hit with deductible.
Ramjade
post Jan 11 2024, 08:24 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(Capt. Marble @ Jan 11 2024, 07:05 AM)
To to top it all off, the insurance only insured you up to like 70-80 years? Just when you need it most, they don't want to even insure you. Wise up.
Insurance is a risk calculated business where insurance company always win. How else they can afford a full color centerspread on newspapers announcing the success of their sales managers every now and then. They money comes from you. And when they increase the premium, did you see if they actually increase your coverage value? Or your coverage remains the same while they increase your premium stating higher medical cost but they conveniently did not increase your coverage... points to ponder. Mine did not increase the coverage while increasing the premiums and it's beyond 40% increase.

I had the same issue and I interpolated the increase amount up to age 75 when they stop insuring. The amount is staggering and I decided I am not going to do that.

Set aside funds for self insured. You have to be persistent in topping up that fund.
*
That is insurance polite way of saying get the f**k out. We don't want to cover you when you are old. We have milk you enough when you are young. You want to be cover, pay up.

That's old insurance. Nowadays all new insurance cover you until age of 99 provided you can pay up the premium. Around 20-30k/year at that age. Can even go higher.

QUOTE(MUM @ Jan 11 2024, 08:04 AM)
Set aside funds for self insured. You have to be persistent in topping up that fund.
1 month set aside 1k,  yearly returns averaged 6% ( conservatively)
1 year = 12k
10 yrs = 120k + app roi 40k = 160k

If got medical need, you only hv 160k to use.

12k per annum insurance premium can get his much medical coverage?

Go for self insured plan if you are sure you will not need medical spendings of more than 150k in the next 10 yrs?

In that 10 yrs, if you had made medical spending of 150k, the money from your self insured plan will hv to start from 0. ...that is the time you may need more medical spendings as you are now 10 yrs older, or needed more medical follow ups.

Also, you will need to have to come out with money for deposit during admission and discharge....well unless your CC has high limits then that is not a concern
*
I show you how.
https://singaporeanstocksinvestor.blogspot....n-life.html?m=1
https://singaporeanstocksinvestor.blogspot....-smile.html?m=1

Like I said he is one of the blogger I respect.

It's not like keeping the money in savings account earning nothing. If you put into say mmf, conservatively can earn 3%p.a which will be worth something in the future.

Again I agree with Capt marble. Need discipline for it. Not many can do that.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jan 11 2024, 08:27 AM
Ramjade
post Jan 11 2024, 08:35 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(MUM @ Jan 11 2024, 08:28 AM)
Passive investment thru stock investing???

Ha ha, ..that is a "good" way to gamble with money for risk mitigations
*
You haven't read his blog. He have been generating 6 figure SGD income for like 10 years already. He already FIRE a long time and he even have 6 figure of cash buffer sitting in FDs, Sg govt bonds. Lots of people have don't it.(US side). Don't dismiss it.

Like I said earlier I am also on early FIRE. I am one of those people. I can choose not to work if I don't want. I am doing part time cause no need to answer to stupid bosses. No KPIs. Like I said my passive income today can pay for my 80year old premium. So think again.

Let me show you another financial blogger. In fact he posted recently in lowyat too.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jan 11 2024, 08:41 AM
Ramjade
post Jan 11 2024, 08:50 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(MUM @ Jan 11 2024, 08:43 AM)
This forummer (imaged) had this to says about his "investment" too.

There are also many in forex or stock forums also said making 10-15% per month in their investment activities .

Just a note of concerns: Your money earned in the 1st 10 yrs may not last 1 major surgery and its follow up treatment .....
*
Forex, stocks, FDs are just tool. Up to individual to use whatever tool they are most proficient one. Not all tools can be used by everyone with the same proficiency. Kindly see evidence provided and make your own decisions. I have already tagged you in the other thread.

Ramjade
post Jan 11 2024, 09:17 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(MUM @ Jan 11 2024, 09:13 AM)
I think few years ago BNM had already had them made a more stringent projections by narrowing down their projected numbers??
*
They give that table. 2%p.a return and 5%p.a return. All ILP have that.
Ramjade
post Jan 11 2024, 09:39 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(MUM @ Jan 11 2024, 09:27 AM)
Ramjade, I think if I can remember correctly, the commission rate is not that low....
Did I remembered it wrongly?
*
More or less the same. Few % difference I believe. But it matters if amount is large and volume is large.

QUOTE(GOPI56 @ Jan 11 2024, 09:33 AM)
Orang Malaysia lead an unhealthy lifestyle and they claim insurance a lot. This what learned when I was in the insurance sector.

This causes the premium for others to increase.
*
Another stuff simple flu, cough all get admitted. Lol.
Ramjade
post Jan 11 2024, 09:43 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(MUM @ Jan 11 2024, 09:41 AM)
Is it not something like 55, 45, 30, 25....
Reducing yearly for a few years?
*
All also reducing and no commission after 7 years. Those no commission have coverage of RM20-50k. You can buy that directly online.
Ramjade
post Jan 11 2024, 09:54 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(zero5177 @ Jan 11 2024, 09:44 AM)
Is the insurance reliable say when you need it the most when there is no agent to follow up for you?

Or is the insurance agent basically using the same escalation protocol as you like calling the same support line/raising ticket.

How much a value agent can bring to you VS without? anyone walked through these experience on their own before?
*
QUOTE(zstan @ Jan 11 2024, 09:49 AM)
Projections are only projections and can still result in their funds making losses. one only can hope the fund manager doing their job properly.
yes wait till the insurance company rejects the claim on the first try and nobody coaches you or the doctor how to rewrite the medical report to get the claims back. good luck navigating all the turns while you are half dead on the hospital bed.
*
Agent is useless in my opinion. But you can't get rm1m+ coverage without going through agent.

That's why don't let them decline your claim. Be truthful. Wait 2y until after purchase insurance to use the insurance. Pay on time.
After 2y generally no issue.


This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jan 11 2024, 09:54 AM
Ramjade
post Jan 11 2024, 10:07 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(blindmutedeaf @ Jan 11 2024, 10:06 AM)
Unfortunately certain plan need to be sold by agent only due to the license, especially those policy with returns
*
My medical insurance got no return. But no way I can buy myself online i have tried.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jan 11 2024, 10:13 AM
Ramjade
post Jan 11 2024, 10:12 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
24,375 posts

Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(blindmutedeaf @ Jan 11 2024, 10:12 AM)
Yes, that's what I'm telling.
What (policy) we can buy online is less than what agent can be selling
*
Correction. My medical insurance have no return. It's basically me burning my money.

3 Pages  1 2 3 >Top
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0208sec    0.63    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 11th December 2025 - 04:23 PM