Noticed a comment on iherng’s most recent video “Is there future for Malaysian real estate?” which is interesting but once again very one sided in what he supports.

But in the comments, a user shared that DBKL was going around spot checking units for partitions. So is this now an illegal thing? In this country, the laws only come up once they’ve decided that something is wrong/contrary to their interests.

A matter of time.

It's a matter of time especially since it competes with hotels and also it runs contrary to the Madani government's aim of a more equitable housing market. Also, potentially, taxes are being evaded by these owners who don't declare their income properly.

Well a matter of time is when? Considering the sheer amount of people who spent like 50k on partitioning renovations in the last 2 years. So more Lelong?

I called this out a while ago but didn’t expect it to be resolved so soon.

This post has been edited by Cavatzu: Aug 9 2023, 11:56 PM

Under the Local Government Act 1976

"Overcrowding of houses
78. Any person who permits a house to be so overcrowded as to
be injurious or dangerous to the health of the inhabitants shall be
guilty of an offence and shall on conviction be liable to a fine not
exceeding two thousand ringgit or to a term of imprisonment not
exceeding six months or with both and to a further fine not
exceeding one hundred ringgit for each day during which the
offence is continued after conviction.


When house to be deemed “overcrowded”

79. For the purpose of this Act a house shall be deemed to be
so overcrowded as to be dangerous or prejudicial to the health of
the inhabitants thereof if it or any room therein is found to be
inhabited in excess of the proportion of one adult to every three
hundred and fifty cubic feet of clear internal space, and in such
calculation every person over ten years of age shall be deemed an
adult and two children not exceeding ten years of age shall be
counted as an adult."

Those ppl knew that its illegal rite? But still insist to do it. That's the risk they have to take it tho. If the raiding news is true, then only thing they can do is to embrace it...

Well this “strategy” was normalised by gurus who touted it as being the solution to make your “investment” profitable. There’s YouTube videos out there showing how many rooms you can squeeze out of your unit.

To many partition rooms dy. To raid and dismantle it is very difficult.

any laws saying partition is illegal? cant find it

There is the “overcrowding” law quoted above. If your neighbours don’t like what you are doing and mengadu then be prepared to face the consequences. Probably more an issue in the mid range units where there’s quite a lot of own stay so know your market.

This post has been edited by Cavatzu: Aug 10 2023, 08:01 AM

alot of bumi interest in this issue too thanks to 'you shall not be name' guru... need to see how the government manage to handle this carefully... lol... but i think enforcement will on a complaint basis, operators who go on and add more than 1 partition room in a condo unit will most probably higher risk of getting complaint...

end of FXX CXXXXXX?

Hai for people who are more concerned about the hereafter, they sure are capitalistic. Be nice to your Karen’s, I know for one if I see it I will make noise unless I’m suitably buttered up with bottles of wine.

Partitioning will slow down evacuation during a fire.

All these fucking property gurus are mostly conmen. They are telling the people to break the laws because of gomen weak enforcement.

End of the day, who suffers? The owners and tenants.

This post has been edited by acbc: Aug 10 2023, 10:02 AM

I'm surprised this wasn't implemented earlier. Partitioning should be illegal and overcrowding must be reported and enforced strictly. With all the land and supply ard, we can't be turning into another Hong Kong. There are better ways to invest than on properties. As it stands currently, any cash-strapped Tom dick and Harry can call themselves a property investor by getting "free" units from developers and then resorting to these tactics to earn money from investment they can't afford to begin with.

This. It has always been illegal to overcrowd any unit with partitions. Also potential fire hazard and death trap.

if no tenant renting those partition room.. no demand then you think ppl will waste money to do it ma? there are always both side to every matter...

well its true that every legal enforcement in Malaysia, you have take care of the welfare of all the parties, as your votes dependent on that... lol... just like the baby seat legal enforcement issue, now the police also dont give a damn... hahahaha

There will be always people looking to rent cheap rooms in the city and owners and gurus took advantage of the situation by breaking the laws. Now the laws are coming to bite them in the ass. So, do u think the gurus will take responsibility? Of course not otherwise how do they cari makan?

well to be fair, its the owners' own choice.. you have to be responsible on your own choice on your own asset.. guru guide you, you can choose not to listen... there is no gun pointing to your head to do it hahahaha

There are 2 types of guru.

One tells the buyer all the risks and bad news but got low or bad reviews and another BS the buyers all day like a car salesman but receives good praise and reviews. Buyers typically don't know anything, especially first-timers. They trusted these people for advice and got the wrong ones instead.

When the buyers panic, they turned to the conservative guru for advice and only to be told this...

"See, I told u so last time and got a bad review. Now, u ask the other fella for help la. Hahaha."

Overcrowded is inhumane.

Now is overcrowding which pose danger to the people staying inside. What it has to do with Madani?

All house or building plan need approval from Bomba and all relevant departments, right? So far it was not enforced to ensure safety like house renovation.

its partition board, alot of owners can argue its temporary structure, bomba have no rights in interfering with temporary structure in the unit itself... i can partition up a big ass glass door and wall in my own unit and which act saying that I cant do so in my own unit? i think that will be argument

Let’s look at our neighbors down south.
They have a rule of how many number of people can stay in several size of house.
There is no laws saying that you cannot partition like Japanese cyber cafe but only yourself live in it.

The problems is overcrowding.
Government should clearly define what’s the limit threshold for each size.

Eg. Like 6 pax max for units between 900-1200sqft

One can argue but unlikely to win in court.

i heard previously a few cases they won using this reason, not sure how true is it... especially the 'you shall not be name' gang...

Because it's never been enforced so often or reported as often until recently. Plenty of times "shoebox rooms" only become a problem if it's reported, or a tragedy occurs like a fire: https://www.malaysiapropertynews.com/2012/1...kajang-too.html

With the new government pledging to protect the rakyat more, citizens and enforcement both have a lot more boldness to actually take action.

People are also pushing for more laws to protect tenant interests: https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...ords-govt-told/

This will raise many problems esp in low cost housing where 1 family can have like 8 to 10 people cramming in a 650 sq ft apartment due to poverty

I empathise with those ppl and hope they are not wrongly targeted. The problem is the popular co-living packagers who think they can do whatever they want without accountability.

Berjaya already managed to get approval to build a low(ish) cost 900sqft, 5 bed 4 bath property

Just curious

Scenario 1
A 1000 sqft with originally 3 rooms partitioned into 5 rooms. Each room occupied by 1 tenant.
Total tenants in the unit = 5

Scenario 2
Same 1000 sqft without extra partition but each room occupied by 2 person
Total tenant in the unit = 6

So since our law mentions only overcrowding instead of partition, isn't it scenario 2 will be more illegal compare to scenario 1?

No, with partition makes it look cramped than without

That's the problem with our law, "look more cramped" is very subjective, that gives room for ppl to challenge the enforcement

This post has been edited by hcstwb: Aug 10 2023, 03:43 PM

likely because of its inflexibility to move around with partition

its more on the number of persons in the unit rather than the partition issue, partition is bomba punya issue already...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid...mibextid=5eVWNK

Both are illegal, so no point to compare which scenario is more illegal.

Both are legal

Scenario 1 is bomba concern. If partition does not obstruct escape path in the case of a fire, no issue.
But dun quote me. Ask bomba, I think2 only.

Scenario 2 is my scenario - 900 ft apartment, me n wifey in masterbedroom, two sons share room 1, two dotters share room 2.
If illegal I sleep on staircase. M40 not much choice.
The overcrowding clause is based on cubic feet, not sqft.

6 ppl in 1000 sqft is illegal? Doesn't sound right. I gave the scenario to highlight that not necessary unit with partition are more crowded than without partition. As seem alot of readers here hates partition so much and I wonder what is the reason. Just sharing the thought. I went my niece rented room at Nadayu near Sunway University. Almost all unit are partitioned, and I felt it is quite well partitioned, does not feel crowded at all.

Compare to 20 yrs back, when my sister was studying in TAR college Setapak, she stayed in a double storey house that are partitioned into 10 rooms.... now that was super scary.

So I guess we can't just hate all room renting today, as long as it is not against the law or bomba regulation.

How would said sister feel now if she bought an 800k apartment with her husband and young child in KV to live next door to 6 Middle Eastern uni students. You see the knife cuts both ways and the tune will change quickly when it’s your life that is impacted

This post has been edited by Cavatzu: Aug 11 2023, 09:12 AM

Anyone has link to the official letter?

rejoice rejoice

Hope this ruling comes with enforcement. Penalty, Court order to seal the premise, make good before release back to owner.

This post has been edited by jojolicia: Aug 11 2023, 09:39 AM

this is malaysia dei.... lol

First line of enforcement is the owners and Management Office

Please make a report or complain if you suspect any of your neighbours are doing partition. Follow it through till it get closed.

Don't spin my point, I was talking about partition not necessarily means crowded. You still can have serial killer live under same roof with you regardless you have partition or not.

But that doesn't matter for KL condo now, the letter clearly mentioned no partition, instead of overcrowding.

I believe the partition as safety concern is about the fire escape time and the flammable material of the partition.

My opinion the limitation of tenant should fall back to the additional by-laws set by MO/JMB/MC.

6 pax adult tenant may not too cramped within the unit, but it might impact the usage of common facilities, security, lift usage, carpark, motorbike parking etc.

Then plaster ceiling, woods, plastic, fabric also cannot be use due to flammable material as well?

Nice strawman. Obviously if you put flammable materials next to fire hazards then is asking for trouble and invalid insurance 😅

If the partitions prevent a clear escape route and is made of materials that accelerate fire spread, and cause smoke and carbon monoxide to accumulate much faster in the property than usual, then yes, it is a fire hazard.

This is the major concern of having such illegal partitions because of the route of escape and the accumulation of smoke/CO that causes death by suffocation. Fire victims usually suffocate first before they actually get burnt.

This post has been edited by DragonReine: Aug 11 2023, 12:39 PM

In building code, fire escape route here also mean smoke dispersion. Smoke stratification creating smoke plateau

Example in condo/ SA, facade windows or sliding doors at living room-balcony are blocked/ sealed off by a partition wall built across the hallway in the dwelling unit.

Making matter worst, the now converted living room into a private bedroom door is locked by its unauthorized occupant.

This post has been edited by jojolicia: Aug 11 2023, 06:09 PM

Expecting room rental rate to increase after this.
RM1000 at M Vertica as per discuss here:
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=107738411

It is definitely not true.

Malaysia/KL has one of the most diverse choice of accomodation. From low, medium and high end.

Btw rent by whole house say 3 bedrooms house is still cheaper partitioned 2+1 house.

The only reason these landlords doing sublet and partitioned because conventional rental return is too low for them as they have purchased overpriced properties. They are not that mulia to do charity works.

good move.

I think sublet & whole unit rent is different business. And people doing sublet business most of the time is the one buying below market value actually especially auction player and bulk purchased group buyer who offered highest Rebate. Instead the convention buyer who buy for ownstay would rent whole unit. I think both different is because investor mind set.

If partition is not allowed, just devide the maximum profit per-room into other room. (mostly refer to living hall room ÷ 3 or 2 (depend on the unit layout) and add into original room rental price). Singapore just apply the new house crowd control policy, and it affected the rental price. So it can be reference by Malaysia if plan to use the similar policy.

If that really happen Renters will group together to rent a unit. I see rent a whole unit got more demands.

Again this is definitely not true.

Just look into any co living website. Their property is either location is not ideal or overpriced for the location

Their solution is to partition and sublet to enhance the return otherwise the property as rental vehicle does not make sense.

Malaysia has so much options

In fact with removal of this, I foreseen more supplies and hence rent for whole house especially those location populated by co-living will get cheaper. However, tenants maybe need to rent whole house and in same find own housemates

I guess since it's low cost housing, mostly nobody bother to complain.
Like others said, authority only acts when someone complains. Its near to impossible to enforce on all properties.

350 cubic feet per person per room.
Says a typical room with 800-1000 cubic ft, it should fit 2 pax max.
I think quite reasonable.

The market will find way to adjust itself. Not necessarily rental price hike. We may see more hostel concept building development to fill up the price gap which some developers has already started experimenting.

From flipping properties to increasing partitions to rent out, all these contribute to property inflation. Must be stopped

Good move, high time to weep out wannabes.

This post has been edited by jojolicia: Aug 11 2023, 06:37 PM

It is exactly against fire regulations. And god knows what dodgy wiring work is done to add another fan or aircon point. I called it out a few years ago and common sense has caught up.

People are predicting price hikes which I don’t think will happen. It just shifts the affordability point to older/ less cantik units. Lest we forget, the expectation has shifted to having a fully furnished designer quality unit just to get a subpar rent which is nowhere near mortgage. A proper housing market in a developed country that is not as f****d as here can rent out vacant and cover mortgage completely.

Those qualified for bank loan would buy rather than rent.

Until poorperly overhang is reduced substantially, price will remain suppressed.

Co-living, partitions , etc are poorperly trap by guru.

Those in construction business know what bomba wants, owners have to yield else penalty is almost a certainty.

Bulu alwiz smlj oso ok wan ma

In social media can kpkb say tis say tat blame tis blame tat

Biasalah skim cepat telur+gula+santan semua maciam telur separuh masak 🤣🤣🤣

Under this notis, is it +1 room allowed to partitioned as a extra room usage? Example 2+1 room. And the + 1 room is study room (a space with 3 wall cover, only 1 face open face to living area)

No wonder so many new condos now don't have balcony

If we go by Western standards for what is a bedroom then it must always usually have a window for ventilation and a minimum 70 sqft in size. Your +1 can be used however you like but I’d like to see stricter definitions in marketing and advertising brochures.

Dude you repeat the same sentence everywhere u go. Yes I geddit. They are talking about the rental floor price for students/fresh grad workers.

se7en

can tag faizul ridzuan and far capital and wetopia here ah?

no defamation so far

My personal view on this is that:

Most investor/ property owners will benefit from this. Some small portion of them where they bought investment unit based on calculation of partition room rental yield might/might not affected.

For example like Quinn, PV9, those near University area condo and condo very near to prime public transport station and retail. These are heavy partition area.
Owners might try to increase rent per room, market can absorb or not we dont know yet, it depends on spending power of tenants (aka young fresh graduate and students).
Foreign student and rich FAMA student in Sunway Uni area might able to pay the higher rent easily. Setapak student and most fresh graduate might not able.
In the end, it is either owner need to be (negative cashflow/small positive cashflow) or some tenant moving slightly away further from this expensive rent and take more time to travel.


Those moving away tenant incl those live in partition will create a small increase in demand which will benefit unit rental and room rental as well.
Imagine a condo where almost all unit doing partition and still close to 100 percent occupancy rate. These people either need to move out or pay higher rent to fight non-partition room.
Or a middle room will then need to fit at least 2 ppl, so that higher rent burden can be shared. If not couple or friends, you might stay with strangers.

However the effect will be very different in each location.
At area where occupancy rate is already low like condo near taman suntex down to mrt kajang , naturally owners wont do partition . The room rental rate might then become healthy.
At Bangsar south / Mont Kiara area where almost no room partition due to rental yield already super good might not be affected at all.
At University area and limited condo supply area near prime LRT/MRT station, rent might increase. However owners yield might be slightly negative affected, tenant either need pay higher price or less quality life where you might need to share your room space with others.


Me as a tenant myself, unless I got no choice. I would never want to stay in a living hall partition room. I think most dont want too. But if the price is affordable (some may argue it is still expensive) and it is very convenient for me to live (to work, to buy grocery/eat, near to station). I no need a car then. Owning and maintain a car is definitely more expensive than the partition room rental. This is why ppl still willing to stay in partition room at prime location. There is a demand, there is a supply.

Conclusion, car sales gonna be better because people need to travel further. More jam maybe. TOD projects is not unlimited supply. Tenant might need to pay higher price in very prime location. High density condo near good LRT/MRT gonna do well. Property overhang will definitely reduced.

Good news is that, Malaysia is not Singapore. Rules might not be follow. Even if it inforced seriously, this process will take some time.


Cheers

This is a quite straightforward issue if you are a person that's not blinded by greed.
have you seen the videos/pictures of those partitioned rooms? I am an investor myself and I will not subjugate another human to such an inhuman living condition just so that I can make profit out of it.

Just my humble opinion.

This post has been edited by mouthpoop: Aug 12 2023, 01:12 AM

If I am single I will stay. There is a different between good and bad quality partition. I have seen people partition living room using book shelf in 2016, yet there is a tenant. Crazy and unhealthy. Now the condo no more unit do partition, because old building and less renowned retail nearby. Supply and demand is the force behind.

As fresh graduat if I earn only 2500, 2200 nett and have to buy a car. I got nothing left every month.
800 (car installment, fuel, toll, parking), 600 for food, 750 for room rental.
Sure a lot of fresh graduate will fight to stay near TOD because can save money.
Unless you live on credit card.


It got nothing to do with greed. If nobody do partition, sure TOD occupancy rate damn high, high demand push high price if supply didnt keep up.

I got no partition unit and didnt plan to do also. Market may able to balance out or may not.

Anyway, it is just an assumption, time will tell.

I thought there is only one reason that really needs to be considered: fire safety hazard, not the rental.

If using gypsum board, they are non combustible unless use sandwich board which is very expensive and not in this weather...

We are lucky not to have a fiery fire hazard like happened in China last year.

Once kena baru rasa

If an unit caught by authority, tenants (partitioned) chased by authority, they can get any compensation?

Are the co-living companies actively dismantling the partitions?

Otherwise some very bored and spiteful Karen can just browse through all their ads and just report 1 by 1.

Currently supply>demand, most landlords will drop price to be tenanted. Rental yield from partitioned units will likely much lower than expected and unworthy to consider.

actually it has never been allowed from the beginning, 10years back also not allowed as doesn't fit bomba requirement.

I have seen bomba spot check unit and ask owner to remove. So be it this statement issue by DBKL now, long long time ago already not allowed, just that no ppl enforce.

The only logical reason bomba come your house and spot check is actually you kena report by other ppl

now with this statement come out, sure got many jealous owner will report to management and if management actually ignore them, those too free owner might report to authority

Yup. Law, regulations and safety issue. Only owners and tenants with self interest keep twisting facts for their self interest.

We yet to go to insurance protection and coverage....imagine if the building is on fire and insurer dismiss the claim as some units are illegally partitioned... Imagine how owners will react.

I think the condo management will be blamed for allowing that …

This is what happens when all the co-living businesses just focus on the yield of renting out your living room and ignore all the risks and downsides.

I feel a tinge of pity for those who paid good money to erect the partitions and now have to pay to take them down. Really negative profit.

Most gurus onli hav 1 way tix for investors.

HOLAND

They onli wanna build their bank acc not ur portfolio

They take the risk to exploit grey area now they have to pay the price, it's a fair game. There is no free lunch.

Again this is not grey area. This is a crystal clear local regulations.

This regulation already there since donkey years ago.They chose to ignore it with knowledge enforcement is weak and nobody will make a fuss out of it.

Now they claim they are victim and doing a noble service to provide affordable housing? Come on...can do better than this.....

After all the huluhala, business as usual. places are full of partitioned. Too late to stop, seriously.

The amount of responses from this thread points to...

That's the way to go. Don't add partitions yourself. Buy properties that have optimal rooms, ask them to give hackable walls. You may reduce the number of rooms if you like but many rooms is the default from developer

I agree with you, it's not how humans should be made to live, tenants treated like rental farm

Actually partitioned rooms fulfil a much sought after niche.
That why they are hot in the rental market now.

For those who
cannot afford proper room in condo >rm700
dun want old, dirty room in low/mid apartmt rm400-600
a rm500 partitioned room is the only choice.

A 900 sqft condo properly partitioned can make 5 rooms > 100sqft each, with windows and shared living n kitchen space.
Working single pipl only need come back and sleep.

No i dun own condo unit for rental.
My son planning to work in kl next year, so we went looking for rooms.
I have seen the rooms myself, not judging by forum talk only.