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News Ukraine army launches large assault on SE Ukraine, Probable probing attack on Russian lines

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TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 22 2023, 01:35 PM

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In one of the campaign’s early battles near Orikhiv, in Zaporizhzhia province, a Ukrainian infantry company drove into a minefield and reportedly came under fire from Alligators, losing several US-supplied Bradley infantry fighting vehicles and a German-built Leopard 2 tank.

It was unclear how many vehicles were destroyed or later recovered. Nor has Kyiv shed light on to how many Ukrainian soldiers were killed. But images of that battle, shared by Russian media and pro-war bloggers, spoke powerfully of the obstacles Ukraine’s forces will have to overcome.

Ukrainian troops and western analysts and officials have long highlighted the role of aviation, including Russian fighter jets and attack helicopters in picking off Ukrainian armour, and the lack of air defences at the frontline to deter them.

“I personally saw how, during our assault, the enemy [fighter jet] aircraft immediately fired on our advancing troops using laser guided bombs from a far distance,” said Stas, a soldier with an elite drone surveillance unit helping infantry regain lost territory in the south of the country. It was not an isolated incident, he said.

Russia’s use of helicopters to attack armour was a “very powerful technique” to which Ukraine had no parity, said Stas, pleading for the west to provide Ukraine with US Apache attack choppers, in addition to F-16 fighter jets.

Earlier this month, Russia deployed an additional 20 helicopters including Alligators to an airfield near Berdyansk, 100km from Orikhiv, which has become a leading base for rotary wing operations.

“In the constant contest between aviation measures and countermeasures, it is likely that Russia has gained a temporary advantage in southern Ukraine, especially with attack helicopters employing longer-range missiles against ground targets,” Britain’s defence intelligence tweeted over the weekend.

Russian fighter jets and helicopters are now exploiting deficiencies in Ukraine’s air defences at the frontline. Kyiv operates different Soviet-era surface-to-air missile systems, but has too few to provide full cover, leaving it partly reliant on very short-range shoulder-launched missiles (Manpads) which require the operator to see the target before shooting.

“Manpads are not very effective at night,” said a Ukrainian air force pilot. “We need systems with detection and guidance — radar or optical-electronic systems,” the pilot added.

Justin Bronk, senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, a London-based think-tank, said Russian helicopters fitted with anti-tank guided missiles “were always going to be a much greater threat to Ukrainian forces during a counteroffensive than during periods when Ukraine was defending against Russian attacks”.

“They can hover, spot for targets and fire anti-tank guided missiles from beyond the range of shoulder-fired Manpads or anti-aircraft fire,” Bronk said.

This leaves Ukrainian forces having to constantly balance the risk of deploying their scarce surface-to-air missile systems closer to the front lines against the cost of leaving their armoured vehicles exposed to Russian gunfire.

As Russian missile strikes against multiple Ukrainian cities have intensified since early May, Ukraine’s armed forces had to keep their surface-to-air missile systems in place to protect the civilian population rather than moving them to the frontline. The losses in the opening battles of the counteroffensive to Ukrainian forces has set off a rush by western allies to supply additional air defence systems and ammunition to Kyiv. 

Britain last week said that together with the US, Denmark and the Netherlands it was purchasing “hundreds of short and medium range air defence systems”, largely Soviet era, to be delivered in the coming weeks. 

On Monday, Emmanuel Macron, president of France, announced Franco-Italian SAMP-T systems pledged earlier were now “operational” in Ukraine.

“The most important problem for Ukraine is that we need to do two air defence tasks simultaneously — to protect major urban areas and industry . . . and the frontline,” said Mykola Bielieskov, a research fellow at the Kyiv-based National Institute for Strategic Studies. “It’s a challenge as we have a shortage of land-based [air defences].”

Bielieskov cautioned that those systems could themselves become targets to Russian Lancet kamikaze drones.

Stas, the drone operator, said Ukraine needed F-16s and US helicopters to protect ground forces.

“Offensive actions require air cover and the most important thing now is the offensive, because if we do not swiftly win this war, if we do not take back all of our territory, it will drag on and on,” he said.



AthrunIJ
post Jun 22 2023, 01:38 PM

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De fook. War for so long?

Russia so damn bad meh...

Finish it la.


TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 22 2023, 01:40 PM

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From the reports I read in the past week this village must have changed hands nearly 10 times already


kiasunkiasi
post Jun 22 2023, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 22 2023, 01:15 PM)

One of the main issues Kyiv’s ground forces have faced as the counteroffensive gets underway is Russian air power holding them back. Russia still maintains air superiority, which makes it difficult for ground forces to advance.

“Their aviation works in waves, as it was in Vietnam, Afghanistan,” says a deputy commander in one of the units with the 128 Separate Territorial Defense Brigade said. “Continuously, all day long, they work either by helicopters or by airplanes,” said the commander, who goes by the call sign “Spas.” “In general, aviation support is sorely lacking.” Still, Spas added grounded forces were making progress nonetheless.

In total, Ukraine has received 45 Su-25s and Mig-29s from NATO and allied nations in Europe – but it’s not just a numbers game. A Mig-29 pilot, with the call sign “Juice,” acknowledges the difficulties facing the Ukrainian air force and says Western nations could help by providing Ukraine with the coveted F-16s.

Confident in an ultimate Ukrainian victory, Juice and Pumba wish they were able to do even more to help their countrymen as they launch Ukraine’s long-awaited counteroffensive.

“At the moment we can’t do anything,” Juice says. “We can’t fight them at all with our missiles, with our radars.

“The F-16 will definitely help with that,” he says.

But while Russia maintains technological superiority in the air, it’ll be very difficult for Ukrainian pilots to push Moscow’s pilots out of their skies.
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personally I doubt F16 will help much for Ukraine... some of the functions / features / weapon range will possibly be reduced or crippled as Murika is cautious Ukraine will be attacking Russia targets thus escalating conflict further
kiasunkiasi
post Jun 22 2023, 01:59 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Jun 22 2023, 01:21 PM)
Only if you buy the great power theory bullshit. You're not alone of course. Decision makers of big and influential countries all subscribe to the fallacy that the world revolves around
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tell that bullshit to Murika who die die wanna maintain their global hegemony world power status
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 22 2023, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(kiasunkiasi @ Jun 22 2023, 01:57 PM)
personally I doubt F16 will help much for Ukraine... some of the functions / features / weapon range will possibly be reduced or crippled as Murika is cautious Ukraine will be attacking Russia targets thus escalating conflict further
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Why treat F-16 as gamechanger? Unless the west supply the latest versions of F-16 (very doubtful), most F-16 variants are contemporaries of the Mig-29 Ukraine now currently uses and offer no obvious technological advantage.

The fighter planes Russia uses right now like Su-30 and Su-35 all far outclass the F-16.


oe_kintaro
post Jun 22 2023, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(kiasunkiasi @ Jun 22 2023, 01:59 PM)
tell that bullshit to Murika who die die wanna maintain their global hegemony world power status
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They are all the same. Basic question you have to ask end of the day is, are you American/Russian/China or are you Malaysian?
It's about self interest, but also about fairness. There's no merit in siding Russia just because you behsong USA. That is just an emotional choice, not based on self preservation. What about the little guy caught in the middle? In this case the one caught in the middle is Ukraine. If one day we are caught in the middle, e.g. between US and China, do you simply side one over the other based on emotions or do you consider which one is harming us as Malaysians? If US invaded us, then side China, but if China invades then side US. In all probability, the latter is more likely, but still I prefer a world where the little guy in the middle gets to decide for himself. This is why i don't consider US or NATO to be the main character in this particular tale.
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 22 2023, 03:53 PM

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Klitschko dah kena cucuk


TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 22 2023, 04:14 PM

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OMG even official sources now buy into the claim Ukrainian army went to the offensive to try inflict attrition on the Russian army.

My dudes your military rely on handouts and you have only a quarter of Russia's population, you are the ones getting attrition


kiasunkiasi
post Jun 22 2023, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Jun 22 2023, 02:48 PM)
They are all the same. Basic question you have to ask end of the day is, are you American/Russian/China or are you Malaysian?
It's about self interest, but also about fairness. There's no merit in siding Russia just because you behsong USA. That is just an emotional choice, not based on self preservation. What about the little guy caught in the middle? In this case the one caught in the middle is Ukraine. If one day we are caught in the middle, e.g. between US and China, do you simply side one over the other based on emotions or do you consider which one is harming us as Malaysians? If US invaded us, then side China, but if China invades then side US. In all probability, the latter is more likely, but still I prefer a world where the little guy in the middle gets to decide for himself. This is why i don't consider US or NATO to be the main character in this particular tale.
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ask yourself why Ukraine in this deep shit? coz Murika wanna weaken Russia or even breakup Russia by luring Ukraine with NATO membership, before they take on China

as your hypothesis of China invade Malaysia, why would China do that? they could have easily wrap up all SEA during Ming Dynasty...
China and SEA countries are pushing for Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, and guess who is trying to prevent it?
Murika is the biggest bully and smelliest shit stirrer of the current world
oe_kintaro
post Jun 22 2023, 05:18 PM

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QUOTE(kiasunkiasi @ Jun 22 2023, 04:55 PM)
ask yourself why Ukraine in this deep shit? coz Murika wanna weaken Russia or even breakup Russia by luring Ukraine with NATO membership, before they take on China

as your hypothesis of China invade Malaysia, why would China do that? they could have easily wrap up all SEA during Ming Dynasty...
China and SEA countries are pushing for Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, and guess who is trying to prevent it?
Murika is the biggest bully and smelliest shit stirrer of the current world
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There are clearly gaps in your risk calculus.
Absence of proof =/= proof of absence.

Before February 2022 nobody with common sense, who understood the order of battle between Russia and Ukraine thought Putin was stupid enough to invade, and yet he did. Most people, even amongst the Kremlin's elite thought it was just mind games, and yet here we are 483 days later.

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: Jun 22 2023, 05:24 PM
marfccy
post Jun 22 2023, 05:28 PM

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QUOTE(kiasunkiasi @ Jun 22 2023, 01:57 PM)
personally I doubt F16 will help much for Ukraine... some of the functions / features / weapon range will possibly be reduced or crippled as Murika is cautious Ukraine will be attacking Russia targets thus escalating conflict further
*
add it to the list of "wunderwaffe" that NATO has promised to be gamechanger

Bayraktar
Stingers
HIMARS
Javelins
NLAW
M113
Bradley
MRAP
M777 & Excalibur
Starstreak
Brimstone
Patriot/NASAMS
Leopard 2/Challenger 2/M1 Abrams
Storm Shadow
chaosneo
post Jun 22 2023, 06:22 PM

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i would say Himars was a gamechanger.
it affected the russians enough to change a lot of their doctrine and quite a number of high ranking officers paid the price for it too.


QUOTE(marfccy @ Jun 22 2023, 05:28 PM)
add it to the list of "wunderwaffe" that NATO has promised to be gamechanger

Bayraktar
Stingers
HIMARS
Javelins
NLAW
M113
Bradley
MRAP
M777 & Excalibur
Starstreak
Brimstone
Patriot/NASAMS
Leopard 2/Challenger 2/M1 Abrams
Storm Shadow
*
sunami
post Jun 22 2023, 06:27 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 22 2023, 12:13 PM)
cukur...ukraine is winning
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 22 2023, 06:31 PM

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Klitschko not happy with Zelensky administration....


TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 22 2023, 06:47 PM

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Zelensky comment on Ukrainian offensive


YamiBear
post Jun 22 2023, 06:50 PM

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Some delusional ktards thinking this is the time to bring down Russia bad because Ukraine is a sovereign country that deserves to join NATO. NATO pun "tulung" sejemput bang. Menang atau kalah Ukraine tetap hutang sama abang long Amerika. Lepas perang Amerika confirm baik dengan Russia sebab nak logam.
bengm2019
post Jun 22 2023, 06:57 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 22 2023, 04:14 PM)
OMG even official sources now buy into the claim Ukrainian army went to the offensive to try inflict attrition on the Russian army.

My dudes your military rely on handouts and you have only a quarter of Russia's population, you are the ones getting attrition
*
Ukraine will fight to the last man!! Something Russia not read to do...
bengm2019
post Jun 22 2023, 07:08 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 22 2023, 12:06 PM)
Ka-52 Alligators continue notching up kills

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Looks like they are really enjoying it..... This is not even war, its target practice.
YamiBear
post Jun 22 2023, 07:17 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Jun 22 2023, 02:48 PM)
They are all the same. Basic question you have to ask end of the day is, are you American/Russian/China or are you Malaysian?
It's about self interest, but also about fairness. There's no merit in siding Russia just because you behsong USA. That is just an emotional choice, not based on self preservation. What about the little guy caught in the middle? In this case the one caught in the middle is Ukraine. If one day we are caught in the middle, e.g. between US and China, do you simply side one over the other based on emotions or do you consider which one is harming us as Malaysians? If US invaded us, then side China, but if China invades then side US. In all probability, the latter is more likely, but still I prefer a world where the little guy in the middle gets to decide for himself. This is why i don't consider US or NATO to be the main character in this particular tale.
*
In an ideal world the little guy gets to decide where to go. Even we don't have much say when it involves USA/China.

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