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News Ukraine army launches large assault on SE Ukraine, Probable probing attack on Russian lines

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Etude8891
post Jun 20 2023, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Jun 20 2023, 11:44 PM)
Your news outdated liao. The available Ukrainian airfields have already been assessed as adequate.
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Then why Denmark's 2 promised F16 need to send to Lithuania airbase instead of directly send to your so called Ukraine airfields?
oe_kintaro
post Jun 20 2023, 11:58 PM

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QUOTE(Etude8891 @ Jun 20 2023, 11:53 PM)
Then why Denmark's 2 promised F16 need to send to Lithuania airbase instead of directly send to your so called Ukraine airfields?
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There are other logistics reasons not related to the condition of the fields per se, more like training and maintenance package and making sure both pilots and crews can hit the ground running
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 21 2023, 08:04 AM

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nuvi
post Jun 21 2023, 08:09 AM

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TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 21 2023, 08:27 AM

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bengm2019
post Jun 21 2023, 08:30 AM

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QUOTE(nuvi @ Jun 21 2023, 08:09 AM)

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Nice.... Keep shooting them.
bengm2019
post Jun 21 2023, 08:34 AM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 21 2023, 08:27 AM)
Interesting.

They fly too low for AA missiles and long range missiles make them out of range of portable Sam's like stingers...

On a defensive position, these helicopters are extremely deadly... I am guessing the only way to take them out is by planes or drones. But since Ukraine has no air cover, this is impossible. Ukraine now has very few drones as well.
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 21 2023, 08:37 AM

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oe_kintaro
post Jun 21 2023, 08:38 AM

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QUOTE(bengm2019 @ Jun 21 2023, 08:34 AM)
Interesting.

They fly too low for AA missiles and long range missiles make them out of range of portable Sam's like stingers...

On a defensive position, these helicopters are extremely deadly... I am guessing the only way to take them out is by planes or drones. But since Ukraine has no air cover, this is impossible. Ukraine now has very few drones as well.
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Their LMUR and Vikhr missles are formidable, assuming supply is readily available but the fact they lost at least 5 last few days point to their increased usage to make up for reduced artillery support.
bengm2019
post Jun 21 2023, 08:46 AM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 21 2023, 08:04 AM)
Helicopters are extremely powerful weapons when used in a defensive position. The only reason why Ukraine could take out Russian choppers early in the war is because these choppers are venturing into enemy territory and a solder hiding could easily use portable sam like stinger to shoot them down.

But now when they are used for defensive purpose, they won't be attacked by hiding infantry. They fly low and use terrain for cover. AA missiles like s300 and other western ones are designed for high flying aircrafts. Their radar is not able to track these choppers.

Spaags and portable sam do not have range to engage these choppers. If Ukraine try to move them within range, they get hit by russian artillery and other weapons. Those atgms fired by choppers has around 8/10km range.

Of course helicopters/planes with AA missiles could take them out... But ukraine has none of these.
bengm2019
post Jun 21 2023, 08:49 AM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Jun 20 2023, 11:44 PM)
Your news outdated liao. The available Ukrainian airfields have already been assessed as adequate.
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Oh, it's even better if they are adequate. This way, Russia will only target these air fields. Don't need to bomb other countries. Couple of cruise missiles will do the job.
WinkyJr
post Jun 21 2023, 08:51 AM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 21 2023, 08:27 AM)
might as well ask for aircraft carrier terus lol.gif
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 21 2023, 08:52 AM

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One of the best takes on why Ukrainian forces have yet to make serious advance in the current offensive

Suddenly the oft-quoted "attacker can expect to suffer up to 3x more casualties than defender" I heard sooo much last time would not apply here? laugh.gif

oe_kintaro
post Jun 21 2023, 09:00 AM

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QUOTE(bengm2019 @ Jun 21 2023, 08:49 AM)
Oh, it's even better if they are adequate. This way, Russia will only target these air fields. Don't need to bomb other countries. Couple of cruise missiles will do the job.
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Assuming they get through lol. You would need expensive Kinzhals, Iskanders or Kalibrs to get the job done, not Shaheds, due to the amount of explosives needed to cause craters. With the increase of Western SAMs this is increasingly difficult. Just look at how the air terror campaign against the Ukrainian infrastructure and civilian targets have failed.
Not to mention runways are easy to repair. All these combine to reduce the the dollar cost effectiveness of trying to knock them out.
chaosneo
post Jun 21 2023, 09:08 AM

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hmmm...
what he said is in line with what i thought too.

Ukraine has a precision range capability and a very obvious drone superiority in frontlines and these are actually doing quite well as we have seen past two week, munitions depo, field munitions depo, train logistics, troops staging area are being taken out behind the front lines.

Ukraine is chipping russian forces at the front and making sure supplies and reinforcements are being complicated as well. not saying Ukraine is not without its losses though, anti air protection is lacking still.

i am not military expert but just using simple logic and deduction, i would say the counter offensive is going according to how Ukraine military command may want or near.as it should be.

one key factor is only three out of twelve brigades are committed. it says a lot that Ukraine is using chisel and the hammer is yet to brought down. another key factor is advancing army can recover vehicles for repair or reuse especially those with mobility kills which defending army cannot.

the recent release footage from Ukraine are only some that probably doesn't violate OPSEC and it already shows more times destruction of russian forces where russia claims Ukraine is suffering enormous casualties but i seen only a few as posted. i am sure russia media will have no qualms about posting Ukraine losses first hand they have.

but we shall see, maybe i could be wrong too 🤷🏻‍♂️


QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 21 2023, 08:52 AM)
One of the best takes on why Ukrainian forces have yet to make serious advance in the current offensive

Suddenly the oft-quoted "attacker can expect to suffer up to 3x more casualties than defender" I heard sooo much last time would not apply here? laugh.gif
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Einjahr
post Jun 21 2023, 09:10 AM

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QUOTE(nuvi @ Jun 21 2023, 08:09 AM)

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whats with Russia attacking rescuers and flood victims trying to save themselves?
Einjahr
post Jun 21 2023, 09:11 AM

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QUOTE(bengm2019 @ Jun 21 2023, 08:30 AM)
Nice.... Keep shooting them.
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now rescuers are legit targets too? What next? Ambulance crew, civilians ? kids?

see a therapist today
DDG_Ross
post Jun 21 2023, 09:11 AM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 21 2023, 08:27 AM)
well who would have guessed an armor-hunting-attack-helicopter would do its job which its built to do
Halas
post Jun 21 2023, 09:13 AM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Jun 21 2023, 08:52 AM)
Suddenly the oft-quoted "attacker can expect to suffer up to 3x more casualties than defender" I heard sooo much last time would not apply here? laugh.gif
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Only applies when fighting equally good enemy.

US when they go attack Afghan or Iraq the K/D is many times in attacker favour.
TSMilitaryMadness
post Jun 21 2023, 09:13 AM

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QUOTE(DDG_Ross @ Jun 21 2023, 09:11 AM)
well who would have guessed an armor-hunting-attack-helicopter would do its job which its built to do
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Haven't you heard that Russian weapons is down to shovels only?


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