Thanks for the info. I'm a fan of Epomaker Wisteria aka HMX Hyacinth V2, so the HMX KD200 piqued my interest BUT I've got too many switches already.

Yeah I think there are too many switches varieties going on.

There is like a new switch every other week from HMX/Keygeek.

Cherry also trying to keep up with the hype now after being kinda silent for a while.

for the time being, things should still get improved with time. however, it will become jwk recolor-like situations sooner or later.

for beginner, it's good for them to experience progressively, starting with base types as reference, so that they can decide based on own user experience in the long run. they can still just simply grab after-market options, if they wanted to, or follow the old route, i.e., playing with frankenswitches.

cherry is always slower to react to market demands and changes. their prorities are else where.

Cool dive into stabs with Ryan Norbauer and Adam Savage

.. and that's how important perfect stabs are for hardcore enthusiasts haha

Heeyyy guys! Did my first keeb mod over the long weekend;

The long gist is here
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=112164204

In summary, after few months using the Thunderobot K104S I still didnt like the linear switches that came with it so I changed those OEM TR Reds to Kailh Box Whites


I was nearly complete changing over until some issues made me stop to take out a few Kailh switches that I put on to find this


Long story short, I found out the rear pin is slightly bit wider than the usual Outemu types switches (inc the keeb OEM switches) which cause it unable to slot into the connector. That was why that rear pin was squished. Reading around I never heard that Kailh switches had this problem

Kailh rear pin width 0.9mm


OEM Cherry type switch pin width (both) 0.6~0.7mm


Lesson learnt.

Next mod I did was to put 2mm thick EVA foam sheet into the bottom case that I bought from EcoShop.


Cheap as dirt and I have a huge piece leftover.

Summary: I didnt realise keeb parts swapping isnt as universal standard and I would be more cautious next time I change anything, safe to say this huge surprise nearly ruined my appetite for modding and perhaps it was fortunate that I much prefer typing on those Box Whites to ever want something else for now.

Oh yeah, for those interested my K104S unit is using BYK 916-00997A MCU controller


This post has been edited by babylon52281: Sep 19 2025, 01:08 AM

What really helped me along the way was an online key tester that put on screen each key press at real time. Thru this I know if I had good switch connection and testing for any that failed (I found 2pcs that stop working after ~10 presses).

The tester looks like this


Also during the changeover they key press settings went wonky and I didnt know how to fix it so I reset the keyboard in Windows by reinstalling the driver


That solved the problem and the keyboard functions as normal again.

i did notice that on my old tecware phantom 104.
because it seem like using 3 pin + 'sleeve' type hotswap (i not sure what it call in english)
example from internet:


so the normal mechanical switch cant fit

Hi, thanks for sharing your point. From my limited experience Im not really sure what would be considered 'normal' switch dimensions, however measuring some of those Outemu samples I have and the keeb OEM Reds, their about the same for both pins (0.6~0.7mm).

Kailh website & documentation didnt really mention the size difference altho their switch drawings (which omitted the pin widths) showed both pins arent the same size (in red lines)


I wondering if this a Kailh thing, or just the Box switches, or perhaps compatibility from one make to another isnt as drop in plug & play as I had assumed. I dont know much about keebs to know what is what really.

additional info for the socket i mention.
its more to sphere/circle(top pic), compare to normal hotswap socket narrow/rectangular
hence normal narrow pin too wide to fit.

so far i dont know where to find switch replacement for that phantom 104 other than that default outemu red (not dare yet to buy switch for testing)

In my search for switches I find Outemu are widely sold and comes with a lot of variety types. These are super cheap to buy a few & try around (which I did on a key tester)


It also helps you compare the pin sizes of these switches to your keeb Reds before you buy the whole lot, so you dont repeat my mistake. Haha

After a week the mix & match of switches kinda bugs me so I bought replacement Box Whites and replace the numpad switches



Now my keeb is finally finished the mod, fully satisfied with the soft clicky switches and from the get go I found my typing accuracy is better with the more feedback I get than the OEM linear Reds.

Im no enthusiast so this might just be my end game keyboard moving forward. I hope this share can/have help new beginners. Peace out guys!

the devils are always in the details, e.g., outemu vs the world about their thinner pins, and own switch sockets (which were discussed more during tecware phantom's era. back then, options from outemu were not as rich as today, so there were people who did various switch mods that were based on outemu housings to cope with socket incompatiblity).

during that same time period, kailh switch sockets that can cater almost everything already existed. that's why it's more popular, and considered standard today for obvious reasons. (gateron switch sockets came later after that)

Owh? So that Kailh switch with the fatter rear pin was actually the defacto standard then and Outemu was the upstart? It does seem now the role has reversed and Outemu compatibility the norm for my China branded keeb and to fit Kailh switches became like I shown above the pin is crushed.

afaik only outemu key switches have thinner pins. to support all mx-style key switches painlessly, just stick to kailh/gateron switch sockets.

in your case, outemu sockets support their own key switches mainly. they will cause bent pins when switches from other brands are used. since there are more switch options from outemu now, you can just stick to outemu, a single brand.

i think you haven't touched about spring swapping, so you haven't found out that not all stock springs are compatible also.

as usual, read the technical specs first before purchase, or simply just ask the seller about compatibility.

Stick to outemu... haha I wished I had knew before getting all those Kailh switches

I would have liked to if I could, each was 0.50 sen a pc while Box White was 1.00 sen (managed to knock down to RM30 for all). But I couldnt find an outemu that had the soft clicky feel (45g) and not-so-gamery-loud-clicks.

it's just part of the learning process. tbh there are too many combos in the rich ecosystem of mx-style key switches, so own research and tests are required in order to have all components fitting for one another.

no brand can cover and offer all options and characteristics of key switches. also, your actual 'issue' is switch sockets, not switches. if your board had mx-style switch sockets from kailh/gateron, you should be fine.

Yeah I guess I rushed in too fast into this hobby, doing a mod within couple months after getting my first keeb and didnt found out the intricacies of keeb modding until now.

Perhaps a bit naive thinking it was straightforward enuff to do watching keeb videos & tutorials. I had built my PC and been modding & adding it since so I figured modding keeb shouldnt be difficult as long as I knew what am I doing. Haha.

But when I realised another newbie could make the same mistake as I did, hence why I figuring to share my experience above.

On hindsight maybe I should have tried the test switches on the keeb itself (rather than a switch tester) plugging it in and test its functions then I would have found out this pin compatibility issue much earlier.

Your right if I had bought the right keeb with the switches I wanted as OEM I wouldnt have this issue however these are quite a bit more pricier than my K104S particularly full sized 104 keeb arent as widely available it seems (mostly I see are 65, 75,96)

This post has been edited by babylon52281: Oct 2 2025, 06:21 PM

yeah been there done that hehe

a lot of things in mkb modding are straightforward, and they are easy once you have enough practice. videos and tutorials are merely for reference, since key sound can be artificial, and key feel is impossible. tbh many useful notes were left in mkb threads. it's just that it takes time go through them to get good answers.

switch testers have their places, but the more practical approach is to test everything out on a board. always. (this is why hotswap boards are popular. it brings convenience to users for the purpose)

honestly, it's always better to spend a bit more to get the right parts for long term use. mkb is repairable and maintenable. they last for a long time. it's worth it.

as for full-size layout, i believe they will return.

Going thru kailh switches website, I noticed there are new info about switch compatibility



However


Which my K104S is the sleeve hot plug type. No wonder there was issues. Too bad either they didnt mentioned this earlier or I missed it.