For our Indo friends:

So what's you get after spending ten of millions building one of a kind items that benefits Indonesian industry other than getting to say ohh wow cool!

ATR-72 wing is not designed to be able to have weapons pylons.

ATR-72 based MPA have only 2 fuselage pylons to carry torpedoes or other stuff. Compare that to 8 possible weapons pylons on CN-235.



So you prefer spending hundreds of millions to have 2 platforms (CN-235 MSA & ATR-72 MPA) performing exactly the same missions so that in the future we will have to spend double the money on different spare parts and maintenance schedules ?

I don't care if we go for ATR-72 if theoretically we don't have the CN-235 MSA. But reality is that we now have those, and why bother going different?

Turkish navy even with 2 different platforms, the ASW systems for both are totally the same (Thales AMASCOS), so mission operators could fly in both aircraft, sitting in exactly the same work station, flying ASW missions.

What would happen with RMAF is 2 different aircraft, 2 different maritime patrol operating systems (CN-235 MSA with Cartenav, same as MMEA CL-415 and ATR-72 with Leonardo ATOS)

Read more: https://www.intelligenceonline.com/internat...e,109836101-art

Is it? Indo has not even allocated funding internally for this i.e. permission to acquire foreign loans and wants the US 2 pay for it. It may be more credible if Indo is Israel.

yeah sorry to burst the bubble but we do not spend even a dime for a the CN MSA
even the training are part of the package

and for the ATR MPA, you've actually answered your own question,
no doubt that the MALTEM will be one of the factor beside the cost factor for the government to choose the ATR

Indonesian Air Force Chief ACM Fadjar Prasetyo received Boeing Defense delegation. Credit to TNI-AU.

ID is not a cohesive entity and different ministries,minister & agency are competing to push forward their own agenda particularly as both Menhen & MOF are vying to occupied the presidential office.

There is fund allocated by the MOF but it only enough to pay for LCA,

No. It is only for a handful of Rafales I think with the rest all pending foreign loans. Many projects are in limbo as there is no funding. Some are dead like their Elang Hitam. Some may come ffbnw like their delayed iver frigates.

Im sure you understand that they like to enunciate their wishlist to the whole world or sign letters of intents or indicate interest w4 confirming they could buy them let alone integrare equipment from different "planets".

I suspect the bluster is for political mileage. Their modus operandi is now quite well known - to other countries and defence manufacturers.

Btw, do you see any mainstream media even talking about that claimed f15 purchase from Intel Onlines so called "sources" ? Thats the amt of credence given to that claim.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Oct 19 2022, 09:10 PM

Indonesian Navy newly launched MCMV KRI Pulau Fani-731.

One thing is the seller countries even want to offer loan. It's another thing whether or not ID MOF even want to approve those loan in the 1st place.
due to the risk involved while not getting much out of it. ID rupiah isn't a very stable currencies and they themselves had been burned with devaluation & inflation so many times before

You see lot of news where the countertrade for all these expensive item usually involves the host country throwing away their old depletated equipment with the purchase rather than the usual counter trade, market enteries etc etc.Then there's Jokowi who made a very public remark on the high level of imported goods in their defence spending.

So whatever comes out of their manhen mouth is basically just that. A bunch of hotair for his own political millage and not an indication of the country willingness, needs Nor desire to even acquired those equipment.
Of course it's goes a lot further, whatever acquisition nor long term plan like the minimum essential force that ID gov draw up. It just lips service to the global power, neighbors & own citizens. The reality is ID has NO intension to modernising their military, they are very comfortable with their territorial defense formation and they are not going to involve themselves in other people war. It's not in their best interest to do so.

ID citizens like those in India and PRC are overly nationalistic, overly proud but at the same time lack in confidence in themselves due to domestic circumstances. Economic wise all these 3 countries are mostly lead by domestic consumption for their large population thus overly protectionist economics policies and not apart of any economic, military alliance and thus has a high degree of distrust to outsiders and thus they would just sweap things under the carpet not interested in public discussion on the merit of doing something for fear of losing face with the neighbors. Thus this sorts of politics suits them.

SG,like MY,NZ,aus,JP,SK are export oriented economics thus highly dependent on the US lead global orders. A collapsed of such systems would see each & every one of us starving.

Lets wait for the official news. Based from the banner pic the Indonesian F-15EX will be designated as F-15IDN.

This post has been edited by azriel: Oct 20 2022, 09:43 AM

What are you talking about?

Anyway Western govts do not usually offer loans. FIs do and thats also not easy to get esp. if there are in the billions. A few like France offer some form of barter trade as a means to compete with the US. The US defence coys almost exclusively do not deal in barter trade.

Like the 42 Rafales (apart from the handful) and KFXs? Do not hold your breath.

Boeing doing a sales pitch is one thing. Indo having the means to buy it is another.

Technically US like France or even UK mostly deal with counter trade by giving preferential access to their market, increase in FDI to buyer countries & technology transfer for the buyer of their weapons.

Market access that ID couldn't care much about because they aren't an export oriented economy and are obsessed with being self sufficient. The same thing could be said with Philippines, they won't benefit from more market access or counter trade (because they don't actually produce much products in the 1st place) and thus why US like SK just straight up offered them loans.

As said so many times before. Don't judge other countries with your own nationalistic tinted lense. It up to you to think that whatever SG is doing is the bestest things since slice bread. But it doesn't mean other nations had to follow exactly what SG is doing.

ID are not interested in helping neither MY,SG Nor the west contain china. you are free to be disappointed with it. But it is what it is.

KF-21 Boramae static display at Sacheon Air Show. Beautiful aircraft.

This post has been edited by azriel: Oct 20 2022, 08:14 PM

Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto during meeting with Boeing officials. Credit to Pentagon Press Sec & Indonesian Embassy Washington.

Harimau tanks (Kaplan MT) for the Indonesian Army at PT Pindad assembly line.

This post has been edited by azriel: Oct 23 2022, 09:17 AM