so, they're equally good ?? I only see Innova in petshops and not innova evo . That's why i'm asking. But acana and orijen, if u see da internet rating, orijen is 6 stars whereas acana is only 3 stars

innova evo is also 40% protein

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Added on October 16, 2007, 12:42 pmiirc it smells kinda good and the kibbles are tiny, got a sample pack a long long time ago.

This post has been edited by madmoz: Oct 16 2007, 12:42 PM

Aiyah, the internet rating is mainly as a guide. You do not need to follow it. Each dog has different needs. Now my boxer changed food to Back To Basics.... looking at the ingredients, Acana is better but then B2B doesn't give my Boxer red skin..... but my lab and CKCS eat Acana ok.... Summore B2B won't be my choice of dogfood since it contains loads of corn as filler....

So it depends lah. Nutro choice can be good for certain dogs but it wasn't good for mine, shed alot hahhah.... so I stay away from Nutro....

If given a choice, Acana is much better than Nutro too.

Innova and Innova Evo.... well, 1 is a super premium and another is a holistic.

Eagle Pack also the same, they got super premium and Holistic.

Yesterday I saw a new type of dogfood, I forgot the name.... but it is in a light brown bag, fully organic ingredients and the protein % and fat % is not bad, average... but the price.... I think it was something like RM120 something for only 6.8kg.... crazy price for such a little amount.... Orijen 7kg already Rm96.

If you still dunno which food to use, get sample packs.... Then try them as treats for your dog and see the reaction.

If you dog is choosy, then just ignore it. Chelsea was very very choosy till I trained her that if she don't eat, no food for 1 day.... now she licks her bowl clean. If I forget to feed her in the morning on time, she would bark at me.

NutriEdge, well, it really made my dog put on weight. The taste is so far appetizing for dogs lah. The brand is considered holistic but then not the high end kind, the ingredients to me was ok ok only. Nothing much to jump about. Right now they are being quite commercialized.... I think it did effect the quality of the food.... their sample packs are the 1kg bags.... less than Rm20 1 bag if I remember correctly. Poop smelly but it did give nice results in my dogs till I changed food coz found better brands that suit them better.

Actually, smelling stronger doesnt mean its more appetizing for our dogs. I am not sure about Hepy but for Casper, both Acana and Orijen (same manufacturer, same smell, just different protein content) smells so strong that Casper has problem eating them. Orijen gave Casper rashes due to the high protein content. I always think that protein for dogs are like for humans. If you eat protein powder and dont go to gym, you will get a lot of pimples and of course, protein left unprocessed, turns to fat. So, if your dog is indoor, not too active, high protein content is not advisable but that's through my own experience la. You can give it a try.

I too would like to switch to Blackwood next cause its easily available in the town I live in, Klang. If I wanna get Acana / Orijen / Canidae, I have to go to SS2 to buy them as most pet shop has never even heard of them. Eaglepack can be found in Klang too but Casper never like it since the first bag a few months back.

Yes, Casper had Orijen and Moonie is now eating Nutri-Edge Stage 1. I think Nutri-Edge is just so-so. The smell is not as strong as Acana / Orijen and the protein is 30% but I feel the ingredients are not that great, so as soon as I finish this bag, I will feed Moonie Blackwood puppy.

Acana for Adult Small Breed is ~RM35 from SS2's Seapark Pet Supplies. Orijen is about RM10 more expensive. Not all brands got sample pack ler, Syrian. You can try Canidae also as I read the review is pretty good and I went through the ingredients, not bad - somemore it comes in a box!

Oooo... I am looking for Canidae sample!! I think Nutri-Edge kibbles are really small too, slightly smaller than Blackwood puppy so its very easy to eat. Acana small breed puppy, never see before.

I think Nutri-Edge is just so-so the ingredients and all. I doubt it's as good as Blackwood but I had to feed it to Moonie due to that's the breeder food and she is still sick. If you want, can let your furkid eat for fun, that's it. There are better food out there in the market than Nutri-Edge.

Innova is a ~26% protein range. Innova Evo is ~40% protein range. Just like madmoz wrote,
Innova = Acana
Innova Evo = Orijen
If I am not mistaken, Innova Evo has been in the market much longer than Orijen had. In fact, I believe Evo was the first dog kibble that starts with 40% protein but please remember that this 40% does not apply to every dog. Later when they have too much energy and no place to release, they will gila barking and running around cause of too much energy or else these protein will turn into fats.


Yeap, I believe you're right.

Innova Evo is in a yellow bag, sealed with an external plastic bag. Usually, most Innova packing is like that, cause their bag is made of paper, I think can masuk angin. Yea, but then you cannot be too dependent on the internet ratings too. Sometimes, they give a bad remark on a certain brand but the same ingredient is in other brand but they dont give the same negative remarks.

I suggest you know the ingredients yourself, so you know what you put into your doggy stomach. Things like beet root and chicken fats preserved with vitamin E, etc are usually encouraged to be avoided but many dog food contain all these.

Yea, I think Evo > Orijen but seems like the dogfoodreview.com website prefer Orijen. I have never opened a bag of Evo before but the normal Innova (red bag) smells pretty alright.

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Added on October 16, 2007, 1:44 pmAgree with you Hun. Nutri-Edge is written Hollistic on the bag but the ingredients is so-so only. There are other better brands out there.

About the organic dogfood you are talking about. I've seen it too and part of the money is donate to some organization for cancer or for dogs, I forgot. I was thinking about that but not sure if it would be suitable for Casper. As for Moonie, right now she is stuck with Nutri-Edge until she gets better.


This post has been edited by Pennywise: Oct 16 2007, 01:44 PM

actually i think so-so means good lah. so-so = not allergic, no diarhea, no rashes, no skin problem, then ok loh.........
The main concern is how deep is our wallet lah, haha........
One comment on BW from me, so-so also (means ok lah), but poop alot, haha...........
Actually i've found one way lah. Get a so-so brand kibbles, not too expensive, maybe +/- Rm40 per 3kg, then plus with some supplement, would be better.
Now i'm having Vitaplus fish-oil capsule. I get the 300 capsule big bottle from watson during promotion, price forgot. Anyway its cheaper than fish oil for dogs lah.
The fishoil capsule i also got makan daily, good for heart. Then I'll give FIFI 3 tablets per week. just poke a hole, then squeeze on the kibbles. I prefer squeeze directly into her mouth, coz she will dirty her face easily, and the fishy smell will stay on her fur for the whole week.

Actually, many dog kibbles are below RM40 if you go for Super Premium / Hollistic. If you go for Orijen, then it will be extra RM5. I think Evo is even more expensive as Innova Puppy (red bag) already cost RM50.

I am feeding Bark Fish Oil, everyday one capsule for Casper and havent start with Moonie yet. Casper will just eat it with his kibbles like it's nothing.

I think Blackwood is a better brand than Nutri-Edge and many others. For Blackwood, just feed a little is enough as I think it packs a punch despite the small kibble, I was told that their contents were more compact, hence no need to feed so much.

So have you decided on which brand to go with?

oh .... whr did u see orijen 7kg at RM 96 ?? I saw it at Ikano and some other places .. all above RM 100 . That's why sitll thinking if i should give orijen or not .. kinda expensive but so far the review is good and it has good comments. If the kibbles contain more protein, the coat will be shinier and nicer ?? Is that true ?? Correct me if i'm wrong .

Hahahaha ... I used to give him fish oil too ... wahhh ... da smell is unbearable after he ate his kibbles .. Yucks!! Now i give him olive oil only.

Ya... personally i also think BW is not bad. Quite good and it's everywhere in the market . Super easy to find .. hehe. But da taste's kinda blant lor. I might try out orijen and see how it goes. If it's good, then I'll continue with orijen. else need to change brand again @@.

Just becareful with the Orijen high protein content, it is not suitable for all dogs. Yes, I never fed Blackwood before until I got Moonie last Thursday, I feed her Nutriedge (breeder's food) + Blackwood puppy + milk powder, she had diarrhea. So I cut off the Blackwood and milk powder totally until she gets better first.

Thanks for the confirmation, I will look for Blackwood once Casper's food run out.

I get it from Plaza Damas.... I think after discount become Rm96. Can't remember hahaha... coz my dad use card, I didn't see price tag. Maybe you can get from White Palace, see how much he offer you lah.

No, protein doesn't make the fur shinier.... it has more to do with fat and oils.... the fat content is high, thus the skin won't dry easily, also it has alot of Omega oils in it. Anyway, I'm ok with the price of Orijen and even my dad coz if calculate, 1kg is only Rm13 plus.... still affordable lah if it is small dog. If large dogs, goodness.... for me 15kg can only last like 3 weeks only.... and my boxer can't tolerate high protein so nevermind lah, feed my Chelsea would do.

Why Innova Evo more expensive? The ingredients used is higher quality than Orijen lo, that's why.... also closer to a natural diet in a way.

If Hepy takes Orijen, he would need to exercise a bit. For me, weekly walks and also everyday play fetch many times with Chelsea keeps her fit. But be warned.... if you 1st start Orijen, the poop can be watery the 1st week.... then later it will be firm but the smell bearable lah.... Not very very stinky but you will notice the smell if you are in a enclosed room. Sometimes Chelsea makes mistakes in my room during the night, so I wake up in the morning to find a slight smell and see a pile of poo on the floor hahah.

ROFLMAO!!! Ya, i play fetch with Hepy everyday until he's outta energy . And i take him to da park to run every weekends. So, i think should be fine gua. Either i stick to BW or Eagle Pack or get orijen . See how first lor. THese two days, he's eating back his BW ady. After his BW finishes, then i'll give him EP completely and see how it goes. I jz bought the EP couple of days ago and opened it to see if he eats

Pennywise,

I think your dog has rashes might not due to the high protein level, i would say it is fairer to say that Orijen is not suitable for your dog.

I have 12 dogs at home feeding Orijen, and non of them have rashes on them despite 11 of them (maltese) are not brought out for a walk, they just roam free at home.

While for Maya (which is Malaysian Mongrel), i used to fed him with Rotal Canine that i won from doggy day and she started to has rashes on her. I switched it to Blackwood as i left a lot when switch to Orijen for my maltese, and she starts to show sign of itchiness and start chewing on her body. Then i thought perhaps i switch to Acana yet the itchiness doesnt reduce and her fur starts to drop!

I seek vet's advice and according to him, it is allergic instead of skin problem. I brought Maya out for walk & run daily so i really don't think that high Protein level will cause rashes if we do not exercise the dog.

At last, although for Maya's size feeding Orijen will burns bigger hole at my pocket, I decided to feed her. I dare not comment previously cause I need prove, and now, my Maya has no rashes and the fur grown back already.

No hard feelings, but for discussion sake, i wish to pour in my side of view too, hope you wont mind. So far non of my customer complains that Orijen causes rashes (I sold worth thousands of Orijen) so I would say Orijen just not suitable to your dog or perhaps maybe it might due to other problem since your vet did treated Casper while you switch from Orijen to other brand?

Alright, regarding protein level. From my side of understanding is, meat protein can be easily absorbed by dogs while if from plants it is harder and burdens the digest system more.

Last time, when you consult a vet, they will tell you that Alpo0O, PedigreEes etc are not a good brand, switch to Science Diet or Eukanuba instead because at that time, these are the best source. Then, dog owners tend to concern more on the well-beings on dogs, so they looking for dog food which main ingredients are not corn, because if you eat corn, you will know most are not absorbed & how can these corn protein absorbs in your dog body?!

Disregard "Premium" or "Super Premium" as these are just names/titles for commercial purposes. It doesnt require a dog food to meet any criteria to put on these titles.

Then, there goes Holistic meals. Some ingredients are really good, but some, really so-so. We gotta do our own research on the ingredients to identify good ones.

And now, like most forumers here, we love our dog like our own kid! We buy supplements for them, we wish them can eat food that quality is equal to ours! Hence, there goes "Human Grade Quality" dog food, such as Orijen & Innova Evo.

Generally feeding these food, you don't really need to give extra supplements, and the quality control is much stricter, ingredients inside are considered cautiously since the nature of their target is to provide the best. They replace pure meat as the source of protein to replace protein from plant.

To me, the right source of protein should be from meat, not plant. No point to see the analysis of the protein level if it doesnt reflects the true percentage of the dog able to digest. I felt that the right level of protein for dogs should be 40% since this is what it should be if the protein is from pure meat! Corns or any other sort of plant protein is used previously since it cost much lesser.

I'm not trying to conclude that Orijen is the best for ALL dogs. No diet is perfect so what we can do is to look for products with best ingredients, if it is not suitable, switch to the next best alternative. And also to clarify the confusion of protein level, I would say i will be more worry about whether my dog will absorbed sufficient amount of protein from plant source rather than over protein from meat which should be what they get the protein from.

Hopefully, i didnt offend anybody as i had double checked, this article is just for the sake of discussion.

The protein allergy could be due to the type of protein..... like if my toby takes beef or certain chicken dogfood brands, his skin will break out. That's all I can safely say, some dogs are allergic to the type of protein.... but to some, Orijen memang high protein lah but so far I have never seen my Chelsea go overweight even though she eats 2 meals a day.... just that other brands with lots of fillers, they fillers are the ones that make them go overweight..... but once a dog reaches senior age, it is advisable to feed a low calorie dogfood....

Every dog can react differently to certain dogfoods.... some dogs may be allergic to certain herbs or ingredients in the food, I would say YEAST... quite a number of dogfood includes loads of yeast. What put me off into buying that organic dogfood I saw was that it contains a whole lot of yeast! Sometimes if your dog is prone to skin rashes or itchiness, yeast can make it worst. Some could be the lack of iron and zinc.... so research, and try brands that suit your dog as well high in quality. If your dog is prone to itch skin which leads to sores that never heal, then stay away from yeast. But if your dog is normal, brewer's yeast is quite fine if taken in the right amounts.

Anyway, now ah, I'm trying a supplement known as Zinpro dog biscuit supplements that contain natural zinc. Seems that it can help dogs with sensitive skin, helps with shedding and coat growth, even helps with hotspots on dogs and rashes.... well, my dogs taking the supplement now, wait for 6 weeks see got improvement or not. Toby eating for his skin condition, Chelsea eating to see if can lessen shedding. Large dogs take 2 biscuits, small dogs 1 a day. Hahah... a bit pricey... normally RM35 but the petshop at Plaza Damas sells for RM33 I think.... see how effective it is, if it works, then it will be a must buy item for my dogs liao.

Zinpro, brought in by champion pet also, was introduced this thing but i'm not sure whether it is good. You try already let me know alrite? Thanks wo.

Yang,

No offense taken. Dont worry about the discussion thing nor do you have to double check your post just to ensure you dont hurt anybody. Everybody in here is friendly enough to learn and deal with things.

I know it is not entirely Orijen fault because I also know that Westie are more prone to skin diseases, its stated even in dogbreedinfo.com. I get what you're trying to prove here (chance to increase sales right? hehehehe) but then how do you justify that if our dogs eat 40% protein and dont exercise much, these protein are stored in the body, not burnt out and turn into fats.

I mean same theory applies to a bodybuilder who eats protein whey and then dont workout, right? They get pimples like dogs get rashes. The protein within their system also turn into fats and this generally applies for dogs as well, true?

I'd like to listen to your explanation in regards to the statement above cause that's what I believe to be true unless you can explain otherwise. I am open for discussion so I hope you are too. I know you're Orijen supporter but I am sure people would want some truth in it. Lai laiii... educate ur frens!

Lastly, (I sold worth thousands of Orijen) So now we know how rich you are, they are going to rob your Maltese, I am going to rob your wallet!! Hahaha!!

Yang into dog food industrial already I can see you know alot about dog food liao You are distributer for Orijen?

Most dog owners been feeding false infos. Do keep up in educating.

Orijen's main protein source is chicken rite?? same like acana puppy?

I also notice got a bit 3 pimples on FIFI's tummy and neck, sei loh..........dunno wat problem lah, been swtiching food from chicken to lamb and back to chicken, but still the same. Bring to vet last time, then no more rash, but she still continue the scratching.
Now give a try on acana puppy, if got obvious rashes again, then need to see vet again lah, hai.......

I remember posting a while back that although high protein foods appear to have more proteins (say 40% as opposed to 28%) the actual amount fed is supposed to be 1/3 less no? So effectively, the amount of protein your furkid gets (assuming you feed 2/3 of the amount of the lower protein feed) is 26.67%.
Also, methinks the lesser protein kibbles often do not disclose carbo contents, which as they are using grain/plants as fillers could be quite substantial too?

I've not yet had the opportunity to try for a sustained period of time any high protein foods, so this is again guesswork

Great! I'm so precautious coz i know lots of forumers will take things personally, so...

Alrite, for the sake to increase my Orijen sale, so that i can sell worth thousands more to be super rich, we shall continue our discussion.

I'm not trying to justify that excessive protein woldnt turn into fats. My main concern that i wish to pass on is, if excessive protein is a dog owner's concern, they should be more concern of the source of protein. If the source of protein is from plants, then it will upset the digestive system and the true amount of protein might be very much little from the analysis shown. So now, shouldnt we concern about "under-protein" than "over-protein"? Perhaps we should do more research on what will happen to a dog if they are lack of protein & worry about the burdens adds on to the dog's digestive system because they are not meant to digest plant's protein?

And if a dog owner finds that dogs feed with high level of meat will become fat, i thought that the owner should reduce the sum of food, else it is simply just an owner's responsibility to works the dogs out.

What i'm selling is what i'm using on my own dogs which i find best, i believe that to recommend a product, you must be a believer. But I had never failed to switch to a better one. I used to feed my dog with blackwo0d for abt 1 year and at that time, i thought that food is good and introduce to forumers, when i start to mention Blackwood, most asks me "what is that?" sadly after one year, i find that all my dog's skin & coat dried up, so i switched. If i found another dog food that is much better than Orijen, you will see me encouraging ppl to use other brand instead.

yo chris, need to say until like that meh? juz small small discussion only neh.

If your dog is allergic to certain brand, then my advice is switch brands. If after you switching few brands still the same, then the next stage is to look at the similarity of ingredients of these brands i.e. all the brands you fed contains chicken. then avoid buying kibbles with such content. Eliminating & analyse the ingredients until you find out what your dog is allergic to. But of corse, you must check with the vet to confirm it is not skin problems but allergic.

wanna ask ...

say if i feed my boy with orijen, so, i need to reduce da consumption a bit but then won't my boy feel hungry coz da food is suddenly lessened ??

That is one of my main concerns too... imagine if your nasi 1/3 less, EVERYDAY!