The question you should be asking is
Could we defense our EEZ all by ourselves?

If we can't then make sure our equipment are compatible with the people we intend to work with and try hard to win their commitment. And commitment from others don't comes free out of the kindness of their hearts.

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Could we defend our EEZ ourselves? If we have far-sighted and patriotic leaders, spend our resources wisely, and and maximise our revenues gained from our EEZ, in peacetime scenario, yes it is possible.

Pushing back Chinese coast guard, or at least keeping them in check can be done if MMEA is given sufficient resources to put an OPV 365 days on location where chinese coast guard lurks. Our MMEA is operating within 1 day sailing time from home, while chinese coast guard sails thousands of kilometers from home. Rather than wasting money buying expensive LMS and OPV for the navy, MMEA could buy plenty of OPVs for themselves. The LMS is more expensive than the MMEA DAMEN OPV that is as big as the Kedah class ship.


MMEA OPV


For example this Korean Coast guard OPV is larger than our Gowind frigates, but cost less than our LMS !!! This is the OPVs we should get to police our EEZ. We have the budget to get these kind of ships. For 1 Gowind, we could get 10 of these large coast guard OPV instead.

Defending EEZ without maximising our revenues from it is wasteful. Why Vietnamese, chinese and other fishing boats always fish on our EEZ? Because we don't. We need a programme to give grants for deep sea fishing. Modern fishing vessels need to be introduced with comfortable cabins so that locals are willing to work on them. Need to establish state-owned fishing companies with deep sea fishing boats (sarawak, sabah, kelantan comess to mind) to expand the industry. More fish processing factories need to be established to make fish products with longer shelf life (fishballs, fishcakes, fish fillets and burgers comes to mind). Training institutes for fishing vessel crew needs to be established to train locals to work on fishing vessels.



So we must have 2 tiered defence plan

1. peacetime policing headed by MMEA. Large OPVs that will be on station (on rotation) every single day of the year. supported by surveillance by TUDM MPA and UAVs. For example, for the Beting Pattinggi Ali, MMEA need at least 3 large OPVs allocated to that area alone, to have at least 1 large OPV always on station 365 days a year.

2. Potent deterrence and second strike capability. This will be with more submarines, SU-30MKM with anti ship and land attack missiles. At least need to be able to strike back when attacked to buy time to go back to diplomatic table or reinforcements and help by allies.

This post has been edited by alexz23: Sep 2 2021, 11:37 AM

Maiden flight of CN235-220 MPA for the Indonesian Navy at PTDI facility. Credit to danilgunawan.



https://www.instagram.com/p/CTREciyhGCp/

This post has been edited by azriel: Sep 2 2021, 02:08 PM

Removing hanky panky is great and all but it won't help much, aftwrall despite no hanky panky,SG still spend 3% of GDP on defence, be a certain lapdog to a major weapon manufacturer to ensure 2st in line in getting new toys and thus technological superiority and the likelihood of such weapon manufacturer to side with them at the negotiating table. And all of that is just to defend against another middle power. Su-30 won't do much in a fight against the dragon since they themselves have plenty of it. Off course as of current SG is under pressure, their relationship with the weapon manufacturer had always been one sides as they benefits militarily & economically for decades,and now the master are asking something back for all the decades of protection and prosperity they give.

Which back the question who exactly is our allies that's strong enough to hurts the mighty dragon enough that they choose to go to the diplomatic table And what is the price of this allies.

If you assume our allies is the same allies that SG hope we're their allies and what SG is doing is exactly the price that those allies demand.

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Security is not just when there is a full all out war.

The reality is, we need to prepare to uphold our security 99% of the time there is no conflicts.

To do that in our EEZ is with a credible MMEA force that is out there 24/7, to block chinese coast guard from having free reign in malaysian EEZ and enabling malaysian economic activity, oil and gas, fishing, tourism to be freely undertaken anywhere within our EEZ, while blocking any chinese attempt to do the same in our EEZ. If we succeed to prevent china from drilling for oil off sarawak coast, or able to chase away all chinese fishing vessels in our EEZ, then it means that we have upholded our security and sovereignty of our EEZ.

SG does not have an EEZ, so their circumstances and defence needs are very different than ours. Their prioritiy now has shifted from preempting a possible land attack to enabling a secure sea lines of communication and making sure singapore is not blockaded from the sea.

Deterrence and second strike does not mean the ability to fight head-on with the aggressor. We need to tackle it asymmetrically.

We need more subs that can lurk in the depths, that can attack the aggressors ships stealthily when the shooting starts. SU-30MKM will be our main strike "shoot and scoot", with the need for longer ranged missiles for stand-off attack capability. Things such as the Brahmos NG, NSM, SOM J and Taurus KEPD350 needs to be added to the MKM arsenal.

Well the Chinese aren't really stopping us from doing anything in SCS YET.

Not due to the kindness of their hearts or anything but simply due to them not having the Expeditory capabilities to harrase us YET.

SG are in the SCS on the pretext of securing their sea lines of communication but what they really doing is joining the international effort of containing china.

china has 1.4 billion tax capable paying citizens we only have 30 mil. We would never out compete china in equipment. We do not need to acquired brahmos ourselves, what we want is ability to work together with Pinoy & India who already had brahmos. Let just face it with the budget we have, we won't have enough of anything.

But what we could do is join with some like minded country whose had an interest in containing china where it is and to make sure they don't expand further.

Never think that this conflict is just about the 9 dash lines, china want to secure their lines of communication and that's including subjegating Malaya to remove any potential blockage at SOM.

>


As i have written previously,

Security is not just when there is a full all out war.

We are not going to have a full all out war with china. China has billions of investment tied in Malaysia (like Proton) to burn bridges with us, unlike say the Philippines.

on our EEZ, everything we do is according to UNCLOS, which is the binding law regarding what is allowable internationally. Any harassment china tries to do to us within our EEZ, will be seen as the aggressor. Anything defensive we do in our EEZ will be seen as protecting our rights that is enshrined in the UNCLOS law.

If we spend wisely and correctly for the security of our EEZ, and we fully exploit the resources there, China can do nothing. Yes china will still send coast guard ships regularly, but they won't go all the way to steal our oil platforms or arrest malaysian fishermen's fishing just a few miles outside bintulu. Which is why a larger presence of MMEA ships will curtail chinese coast guard activities off our shores. They can loiter around, but they would not be able to harass our economic activities. The continuous presence of MMEA is also a proof that we are enforcing our EEZ sovereignty, so that nobody can claim that we have no presence there.

China won't burn the bridges with the west. This is nothing remotely similar to the cold war with Russia. China's wealth comes from the western consumers, unlike miniscule economic interactions of Soviet with the west.

You think they won't?

Have you heard of the Icelandic Cod Wars?

China can build 10 "fishing boats" for every 1 MMEA boat we can field, and then use those 10 "fishing boats" to ram our MMEA boat and send it back to dock for repairs. And no way we can spend enough to build enough boats to replace them. Shortly then the sea will be empty of any of our ships.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars

They can also impound and seize any of our fishing boats if they want to, under the pretext of guarding "their" EEZ.

Realistically there is nothing we can do, other than ask for big brother protection. But then we are too proud to do that...

>


there was no UNCLOS when the cod war happened. read the aftermath of the cod war. The cod war shoes that historical claims to fishing areas have no standing in international law. Even a superpower such as UK has to concede to a smaller state like Iceland according to the international laws. Nobody came to help Iceland against the UK, they stood up against UK on their own and no it does not cause an all out war between Iceland and UK.

Chinese EEZ according to UNCLOS is just 200nm from chinese shores. There is no such thing in UNCLOS as chinese EEZ off bintulu.

Chinese imaginary southern most island (james shoal) is actually 22m under the sea. Something imaginary cannot create an EEZ around it. But Bintulu is real, and anything 200nm from sarawak and sabah coast is internationally recognised as malaysian EEZ under UNCLOS law.

This post has been edited by alexz23: Sep 3 2021, 02:27 AM

If china thinks that the 9-dash line is internationally legal under the UNCLOS, they should have already registered their official claim with the UN and publish their official baselines of the claim in accordance to the UNCLOS law.

But they still has not until now. Because it can never be legal under the UNCLOS law.

>thinks China gives a fark for UNCLOS

Someone forgot that the rules in this world is might is right
Gov works because they have a monopoly over violence thus they can impose their rules on everyone else.


Just like in the cod war, Iceland has leverage, which is basically it's geostrategic importance and thus they threaten to leave NATO which scared the US and thus everyone else back down and just let Iceland get their way.

International law are only law because the US enforce it. UNCLOS is one such law that US imposed on others but they themselves didn't recognize it.

Same with china, they are a signatory but if they didn't want to abide by it whose going to enforce it?

The only reason they haven't bullied us silly like the Philippines is simply due to our holding of SOM and abilities to pull a blockage. It would be silly to think that the Chinese has no plans in mind to liberate such blockage and a longer term plan to make sure we didn't have the ability to pull a blockage at all.

Let stop pretending that this is just some border dispute like batu putih or Sipadan. China are just using those claims as a pretext to what they actually want. What they wanted is to subjegate all their neighbors. Which is unfortunately something they need to do since they are trapped inside the 1st island chain. They wanted to be liberated and the price of their liberation is our subjegation.

China would love to not fully burnt the bridge with the west, but worries not since the west are actually the one doing all the burning.

As one wise man once said, 🐘 fight 🐘 grass suffer. : 😂

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Sep 3 2021, 05:38 AM

Something we really need to fully leverage for our deterrence. Right now we don't really have the means to pull or prevent a blockade. Something that we need to address.

The army needs to add NSM batteries to the Royal Artillery Regiment, more so than looking at 6x6 IFVs or even self propelled howitzers.



The Navy needs to recapitalise its mine countermeasures capability. More subs could roam the andaman sea to do blockading raids. Paskal + HOM AW139 would be a great asset to capture ships and do a tactic like the iranians are doing in the persian gulf.

The MMEA needs to have its own large salvage/rescue tugs to help with large ship grounding, sinking, burning, oil spill that can block the use of the straits of melacca.

They want to be a superpower. But they are trapped in 19th century mentality.

Subjecting other countries to fear you is not going to win you friends. You want other people to willfully be on your side. With its economic power china can easily do that.

rather than using fear tactics, just upholding UNCLOS, dropping the 9dash line and giving SEA countries recognition of their respective EEZ, and using its coast guard to help SEA countries to police them would immediately pull SEA countries into Chinese friendly orbit.

if they want extra sea areas, they can always offer pacific countries to be a part of chinese SAR like Macau or Hong Kong, i can see many cash strapped pacific islands more than willing to do that.

Unfortunately, No amount of NSM we could buy would be enough to sink all the Chinese asset. SPH and hopefully anti air gun & probably more radars are probably more bang for the bucks, particularly a better prioritization since our budget are a bit tight.



Why do it in the Andaman? Why not just do it at Singapore straits?


Isn't that jabatan laut jobs?

Thought jabatan laut had already bought all those stuff?

They can change the narrative of the 9 dash line.

If they can forget about Mongolia, which is clearly under chinese control for ages, they can change the narrative about south china sea too.

for example look at this 1933 official chinese map.

You don't need to sink all chinese ships to do blockade. just those around the straits.


How do you submerge your subs in the shallow Singapore straits? How do you run when you are playing in confined waters?



Jabatan laut stuff is geared mainly for bouy maintenance and other maritime aids. MV Polaris bollard pull of just 60 tons won't be too helpful against large supertankers or container ships.

something under MMEA could be used as OPVs too.

This is china coast guard version, and has been seen around james shoal too

They do not want to subjugated us out of desire, they wanted to subjugated us out of nessacity to ensure their own survival.

85% of the oil supply goes through SOM. A blockage would crippled them, the water tap run dry, lights go off, heaters run out, hospital offline, foods goes bad and they all starved and freeze. That's just the oil not other export & import that they do.

They are reliances on the sea lanes of communication, without any ability to secure it themselves they would themselves trapped in the 1st island chain and relied on the generousity and good will of US & ffriend to allowed them continued survival.

Even if china is friendly, their big size would still mean others would still felt treaten by them and would still band together and inlist ourside help for a "just in case moments"

Remember a time when china was friendly and invest in proton,ecrl, forest City? Remember what we did? Yes we voted the Chinese friendly guy out because we felt treaten by their presence. China then was the 2nd largest investors and everyone lose their mind but at the same time Sinki being the largest investors no one bats an eyes.

we voted bossku out because of 1MDB.

we felt threatened because of what china is doing. if china changes tack, like doing away with the 9 dash line, chinese allies will come willingly.

Places in the straits are all within strike distance of SPH.




We don't? It's a blockage afterall. Just send out ships.

MMEA currently do not have enough ship to do their own jobs so the likelihood of them using their funds to do jabatan laut jobs is probably miniscule.

Personally i think eventually MMEA would be the brown water navy in charge of Coastal protection and enforcement, something RMN used to do and RMN would instead go further out into international waters.

This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Sep 3 2021, 11:25 AM