Over-steer and Under-steer problems and its adjustments :



Source: Automobile handling, Wikipedia

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 25 2021, 12:41 PM

In summary, make the axle that lose traction softer to increase grip/the axle that has too much grip stiffer to reduce grip.

i just leave it the shop they more expert do it everyday
but if they start to talk shit need to add chamber nut or what shit...i wud just walk off

One may be surprised that the use of camber/eccentric bolts in most modern vehicles is indeed genuine.



This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 3 2021, 02:08 PM

Interesting ....
that a brand new BMW 2020 M4 Sedan(?) Coupe at 64 miles (100 km or 64 miles) has
out-of-specification Toe and Camber alignment angles ............



Why and how could it be ?

Source

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 7 2021, 10:17 AM

wow steering pun miss center

Concur with you the steering wheel is likely off-centre, possibly pointing right(?) if I may add.
IIRC, a thead respondent inferred this 64 mile M4 before current alignment could be pulling right during straight ahead driving.
However the owner was complaining about out-of-spec alignment in this new car and its non-adjustable Front camber unless parts are replaced.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 10 2021, 10:31 AM

Summary of alignment specifications for:

2015-2020 BMW F82/F83 M4 Coupe 20 inch Wheel (Modified Specification);

Front
Camber Minimum -2.00° Maximum -1.00° Preferred -1.50° Tolerance ±0.50° ;
Toes Minimum -0.02° Maximum +0.18° Preferred +0.08° Tolerance ±0.10° ;
TotToe Minimum -0.03° Maximum +0.37° Preferred +0.17° Tolerance ±0.20° ;
SteerA Minimum -0.05° Maximum +0.05° Preferred +0.00° Tolerance ±0.05° ;


Rear
Camber Minimum -2.00° Maximum -1.40° Preferred -1.70° Tolerance ±0.30° ;
Toes Minimum +0.01° Maximum +0.21° Preferred +0.11° Tolerance ±0.10° ;
TotToe Minimum +0.02° Maximum +0.42° Preferred +0.22° Tolerance ±0.20° ;
ThrustA Minimum -0.17° Maximum +0.17° Preferred +0.00° Tolerance ±0.17° ;

This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 19 2021, 12:19 PM

Hi,

Steps and interpretation of wheel alignment angles by a retired alignment business owner (Australia)

Go to Reply #6 of this thread ...



... on How to align a Mercedes Benz 280 SE W116 with Air Suspension.

It is nice and good he did measure the Rear camber and toe angles, but only adjusted Front Caster, camber and toe.

Question: Did Carl make a mistake in the final (Front) adjustment?

Note: 2-wheel front alignment vs thrust line alignment vs 4-wheel alignment.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jul 10 2021, 11:16 AM

Update, 6 months later.

By March 2021, I dropped Front tyres to 37 psi from 40 psi. Rear pressure remains the same at 40 psi. There is no perceptible improvement in vehicle drifting left problem (with both hands off ) and steering wheel is still pointing slightly (towards) right when driving straight ahead.

Front tyres were not swapped left right as a possible 'solution' till todate as suggested by some above, yet.

Note:In February 2021, on closer inspection outer edges of both front tyres had worn more than inner edges with RF outer edge slight more severe ..........I believe most likely this has been happening all along well before the Dec 2020 wheel alignment.

By July 2021 today, there is an improvement in steering wheel seems no longer pointing (towards) right like previously but pointing quite straight ahead.

Has conicity/wear pattern of front tyres improved substantially enough (post alignment) to make me feel better currently ?

However, vehicle drifting left problem (with hands off the steering wheel) remains the same.

Note: Someone(s) has/have suggested above this drifting left problem could be caused by 'unknown' Rear toes which was not 'measured or displayed' in December 2020 alignment readings and he/they could all be right afterall..........
hence the requirement for a more 'complete' Thrust Line Alignment (generally lacking in local alignment industry) instead of the incomplete Front End Alignment broadly adopted locally.

Of late I realise turning right seems to be harder than turning left in relative terms. It requires quite a bit of steering effort to do turning.

Not sure if this has anything to do with reduced Front pressures of 37 psi, or other unknown causes like too high a Front total toes of +12' left and right ?

This post has been edited by zeng: Jul 21 2021, 01:40 PM

Sharing another differrent alignment specs (from Version 1.0) for an Avanza F601 from an Indonesia blog :




Summary of F601 Ver 2.0 alignment specifications -

Front
Toes Minimum -00°12' Maximum +00°12' Preferred +00°00' Tolerance ±00°12' ;

Camber Minimum -01°15' Maximum +00°15' Preferred -00°30' Tolerance ±00°45' ;

Caster Minimum +03°34' Maximum +05°34' Preferred +04°34' Tolerance ±01°00' ;

SAI Minimum +11°25' Maximum +13°25' Preferred +12°25' Tolerance ±01°00' ;


Rear - N/A.



Note:
Previous Ver 1.0 specs Preferred Camber is +00°30' vs -00°30' here.

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 2 2021, 11:53 AM

Hi guys,

wanna ask do you have any recommended trusted tyre shop to do balancing/alignment in Mahkota Cheras/C180 area without need of changing charmber?

My car is Proton Saga VVT version

Hi Bro,

Am I right to deduce Proton Saga VVT version stock does not come with Front adjustable camber bolts, anyone ?

If yes, then all alignment shops can't adjust and correct/rectify Saga VVT front camber angles (if and when they are out of factory specifications) until and unless an after-market Front eccentric bolts set are installed, on a typical Front MacPherson Strut suspension.

I installed after-market Front eccentric camber bolts on my 2007 Avanza (whose Front cambers are non-adjustable at stock) .

This eccentric camber bolts installation and its adjustment improves my general driving experience tremendously (yes, from a boxy Avanza) and better ensure longevity of tyre lifes imo.

Proper adjustment of camber angles (and toe angles for that matter) is definitely a plus, question being does your car need one at the moment .....
but a time will come in days to come unless one ceases driving a car.

First off, try have a look at this Ho Tang Kee from Kajang .

This shop was mentioned/recommended by a lowyat forum member here and see if it is of help to you. Do let us know in this thread whether they do computer 2D or 3D wheel alignment and its pricing/service/quality level, if you ever pay them a visit .

Alternatively nearer to Bandar Mahkota is this Ah Man Tyre Centre (ML) Sdn Bhd Balakong said to be opposite Jusco Balakong .

However another lowyat forum thread here suggests they were using 'manual' and non-computer method.
Do they use computer alignment today? IDK.
Do update us whether they have computer alignment todate and their pricing/service/quality levels if you happen to visit them.

In any computer alignment shop one is visiting, first make a request for a print-out for Before and After alignment settings (that includes Rear camber and toes), never mind it may not be adjustable stock and maybe take pictures of alignment settings (maybe with permission granted by shop) and upload the results for us to learn/troubleshoot or evaluate the quality and workmanshop/finishing of the shop in question as a reference for other readers here. Yes, I believe a complete alignment results print-out can help other readers in assessing/determining the 'standard' of the Shop.
Meanwhile this can help me in building up a data base on factory Preferred alignment angles (on Post #1) of our cars here and also increase or improve our knowledge base on anything Wheel Alignment which almost all car drivers 'suffer' from.

The sad truth about driver complaints across the world whether in Malaysia or overseas is majority of car owners, with valid basis seem to find wheel alignment jobs done on their respective cars and its 'workmanship and finishings' as generally 'lacking' , unsatisfactory and anger the owners often times, as I understood them from among the alignment threads I have read about thus far.

Edit: IIRC, there is a shop in Salak South that uses 'manual' method and a very famous alignment shop along Jalan Klang Lama that uses computer alignment method. I have to do some search, if there is a need.

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 9 2021, 07:05 AM

It is Syarikat Kee Hin - Tyreplus along Jalan Klang Lama on your Left after passing by a BHP petrol station (PJ bound from KL city centre).

@ceo684 has good remarks/experience with Kee Hin's alignment results.

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 21 2021, 11:50 AM

Any recommended tyre shop with no chamber bent scam?

Where are you located? No point people recommend to you someplace in Klang Valley when you are in Sabah, for example.

Sorry forgot to tell.

Subang Jaya

My Avanza Front camber bolts were supplied and installed by this Kim Heng Tyre Service SS14/1 some 6-8 years ago, no problem till todate and are still in use.

Did wheel alignment over there too, not aware of any dis-satisfaction with their service thus far.

@speedy3210 is probably well versed with some tyre shops in Subang Jaya/USJ too?

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 25 2021, 02:49 PM

Kim Heng is actually relatively near to my home, but I actually like the job of my usual tyreman more. Doesn't matter it he is actually >30km away. Been to Kim Heng twice but somehow his service is not as satisfactory as my usual go-to. And all the jobs were on my daily workhorse wira.

As for Kee Hin, tried his service once when my usual go-to was ill due to cancer. Also OK like Kim Heng, but I think he is more reliant on the alignment rig.

As for my tyreman, I like his skill in reading my tyre wear and adjusted accordingly. Started going for his service in 2000, when I was looking for even tyre wear, and progressed to more corner stability from mid 2000s onward.

Hi bro, thank you for sharing your experience with Kim Heng (Subang Jaya) and Kee Hin (Jalan Klang Lama) for the benefit of the readers here.

It appears to me your usual go-to tyreman could well be a 'hard to find' knowledgeable alignment guy around in the market.

Besides adjusting alignment angles according to reading your tyre wear patterns, can he mods and makes alignment adjustment to Rear cambers and toes of a fixed live axle (like Avanza) and/or rear torsion beams (like prius) or could he recommends one who can undertake such mods (as Toyota factory does not provide for Rear camber/toes adjustment) ?

Mind sharing location of your usual go-to tyreman for the benefit of all, as I'm keen to check with him on the mods ?

This post has been edited by zeng: Aug 27 2021, 02:10 PM