What model year is your Vios and what's the numbers for individual Rear toes and Front toes?

Your technician comment on rear cambers of -1.65° left and -1.35° right is Internet 'wisdom' popularly published ........ which sometimes is NOT true for one of the rear tyres.

Your rear toes of Left and Right tyre will reveal angles that actually cause 'accelerated' rear tyre wear, either even wear or uneven wear pattern.

For reduced wear rate, it is essential to adjust rear toes rather than the rear cambers, which in your case the rear cambers provides greater safety and vehicle stability in taking corners or turning. The chances of 'dangerous' oversteer phenomenon is reduced considerably in your case.

Hence, do consider keeping the existing rear cambers but have the rear toes adjusted to minimal positive toe in's, if you so wish.

The technician is correct in saying the rear toes and cambers in a Vios can't be adjusted, with toyota parts or by service centres.

However, it can be done with shim method which fortunately is available for you in a Kempas JB wheel alignment shop.

Go to Post #2 (or is it Post #1) of this thread, under list of alignment shops ..... look out for some contact details of the shop.... which i think is Jettsin or something.

Edit: The front individual toes can influence whether it is outer edge wear or inner edge wear on rear tyres with excessive Rear Total and individual Toes.

Excessive rear negative cambers does influence whether it is outer or inner edge wear, BUT in itself does NOT cause excessive tyre edge wear if you know what I mean.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 2 2023, 11:39 AM

Model Vios GX

Yeah, yesterady morning i just went there ( Jetsiin auto in Kempas industri area), i presumes is ah Bao, give me two solution, change the axle or shim the camber, i took second solution.
It took near 2 hour to fix the rear left alightment, 4-5 times mount and unmount the tyre, add or reduce the washer, finally the value is toe 0.2, chamber -1.2, all front and rear green color.

He charges RM80 shim camber, RM30 alighment, which is very reasonable, he did it very professional, also remind me pay attention if replace the bearing, big kudos to him

This post has been edited by wong_86: Jan 2 2023, 03:55 PM

Wow.. 4-5 times of mount and unmount of tyres with nearly 2 hours. A shimming job could indeed be quite a 'headache' for a pro. Imo, RM80 for shimming is really value for money for owners of cars whose rear axle is either Rear Torsion Beam or live solid axle - in which the Rear cambers and toes is supposedly not adjustable.

+0.20° Rear Total Toes would be having normal tyre wear rate, even at rear cambers of -1.20° or more negative.

However, if individual rear toe for one side is +0.20° with the other side about the same ...... then you're going to have 'accelerated' abnormal rear tyre wear rate despite of less negative rear camber of -1.20°.

Hence you may want to ascertain that the +0.20° mentioned is Rear Total Toes.

Yes, it is Ah Bao whom I had contacted about my Avanza rear live axle shimming proposition. Unfortunately he is of the opinion shimming can't be done on my rear wheel drive RWD Avanza. 2-3 other mechanics I contacted has similar opinion as Ah Bao's.

However, I still believe shimming can be done on a Rear Wheel Drive Avanza like mine ..... hence the search continues ...... hopefully someone would do it for me in years to come.

Btw after current wheel alignment, do your steering wheel off to one side whilst driving straight ahead ?

Does the Vios drifts or pulls to one side without steering input?

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 2 2023, 09:13 PM

not quite sure is negative or positve 0.20, didnt capture the monitor, just saw all the values are in green color, ah bao also said gaodim, i not expert on car, so i trust him what he said, will monitor the tyre wear condition time to time.
- the steering not wheel off while driving straigh head
- my car will drift slowly in left or right in straight line without steering input

This post has been edited by wong_86: Jan 3 2023, 08:29 AM

The fact that all the (rear) values is green means they are within (Toyota?) alignment specification range adopted by Jetsinn computer.
So the toe value of 0.20* degree cannot be toe out (-ve) but definitely is a toe in (+ve) .
On most car brands (inc Vios GX, I believe) Rear Total Toes of +0.20 degree is typically within factory specification.
But individual rear toes per side of +0.20 degree for Vios GX? I'm not sure, as I don't have info or access to Vios GX factory specification range.
However +0.20 degree individual rear toe per side for some Hyundai Elantra and Accent is within specification.
But the same value is out of factory specification for some models of BMW, VW and Audi.
Glad to learn that Jetsinn gives you a properly centred steering wheel whilst driving straight ahead.
On drifting slowly to the left or right whilst driving straight without steering input, it could be related to your front alignment angles, which is unknown for now.

Hi @wong_86,

How is the rear tyre life after shimming in km so far?
Normal or accelerated tyre wear in your opinion?

This post has been edited by zeng: May 28 2024, 10:51 AM

I tried contacting another 3-4 alignment/workshops who all said shimming on a RWD like Avanza cannot be done, including Oscar Bukit Kemuning.

However I managed to convince Ah Dong of Oscar to do so while I'm responsible should rear axle oil leaks occur in future.

The rear alignment numbers before shimming were:

Camber
L= -00.31°, R= -00.06°

Toes
L= -00.03°, R= -00.15°

Total Rear Toes= -00.18°

Thrust Angle= -00.06°

Edit: Add image


0.3 mm shims were added to the Right Rear but he refused to add 0.1 mm shims (which I had with me) saying it's so little and minute that it makes no difference, which I beg to differ.

Of the 4 bolts on Right Rear, these 0.3 mm shims were added at Rear bolts (top and bottom)

Unfortunately, AFTER rear alignment numbers were not displayed -hence not photoshot by me.

Will report back after test driving for some time, post rear shimming job.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 13 2024, 10:27 AM

Oscar test drove the Avanza and concurs:
a) steering wheel is slightly off-centre to the left i.e about 6 mm base on left/right (wiper/head lights) sticks markings, and
b) vehicle pulls or drifts to the left with both hands temporarily off the steering wheel whislt driving straight ahead.

Without checking front wheel alignment numbers, Oscar proceed to lift up right front tyre (only) off the ground and began adjusting camber bolt(s) on right front.

Note:No lifting or camber adjustment on left front tyre.

After making right front camber adjustment, the front wheel alignment reads as follows:

Front
Camber -00.38°(L), +00.49°® ;

Toes +00.50°(L), +00.20°® ;

The finishing numbers were as follows:

Camber -00.21°(L), +00.44°® ;

Toes -00.01°(L), -00.01°® ;

36 hours after collecting the Avanza from Oscar, the initial test driving feedback thus far is:

a) Whilst driving straight ahead holding firmly to the steering wheel, instead of steering wheel off-centre to the left initially now steering wheel off-centre is even worst than before to the right by some 20 mm of desired wheel position.

b) Vehicle is still pulling/drifting to the left like before, with both hands temporarily off the steering wheel whilst driving straight ahead.

In short, general wheel alignment job by Oscar tak boleh pakai langsung, in respect of problems a and b above.

I would like to speculate front and rear tyre wear rate issue should be ok, if any but only time will tell.

Note: I paid RM90 - RM50 for shimming right rear axle and RM40 for wheel alignment.

This post has been edited by zeng: May 28 2024, 09:17 PM

10 days after (mis)alignment by Oscar I visited Single Dove USJ19/2 on 6/6/24 about:

a)To check and confirm previous rear left tyre alignment as negative toe out.

b)Steering off-centre to the right by about 20 mm whilst driving straight ahead,

c)Vehicle pulls to the left (4 seconds at 60 km/hr) from right tyre on white line to left tyre touched on white line within the same lane.

In contrary to rear left tyre alignment at negative toe-outs by SL Car Care Klang (-0°09' dated 31/3/22) and Oscar (-0.03° dated 6/6/24), Silver Dove measured both rear left and right toes as positive toe-in as below:



Note: I've strong suspicion on its accuracy showing rear left toe as positive toe-in of 0°02' .

The horrible part of front wheel alignment attempting to correct problems b and c above was that this was carried out without displaying the front wheel alignment numbers.

They messed around with both front left and right tie-rods (to change front toes) and no camber adjustment was made and call it quits.

After paying RM40 for the supposed front wheel alignment job, sure enough my test drive for the past one week there is no improvement in my complaints b and c above.

Returning on second day to correct the vehicle pulling left problem in particular, the shop shocks me by merely swapping front tyres left/right and the car was NOT put on the alignment machine to re-measure and adjust the front cambers as well as the front toes.

To me this is another scam alignment job.

no shop want help accurate alignment one. blame here n there.
have u found official sc with these machine ?

btw inspect ur shock mount n bush all got senget or not

mine too mount is broken. that y cannot center line unless hispeed

Not sure of what you meant to say, the image below suggests this Silver Dove machine is an HPA C400.



I'm sure my shock mount bushings (and other suspension bushes) are not loose or senget.

Anyway whenever a suspension components like shocks or arms etc senget, it would be reflected very bizarre or out of mind alignment numbers in a properly set-up alignment process.

But heck, my current problem is the appropriate alignment numbers are not displayed by Silver Dove whilst making adjustments to the front toes/cambers 'blindly' -

this to me is a slip shot job and/or a scam as far as correcting vehicle pulling left AND steering wheel off-centre to the right phenomena is concerned!

This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 22 2024, 08:23 PM

bro. i met an issue with toe and torque steer.
old workshop did -0⁰7' toe out all was fine

so im changing tyres in new workshop who put everthing to 0⁰

otw back i driving straight, steering direction keep on change between left and right bias, depend on gas pedal.
complain to shop, foreman told me chassis leg broken so fix them first.

u got idea?

This post has been edited by ktek: Nov 4 2024, 06:46 PM

Oops.... apology for being late to the party.

Generally your situation may happen with excessively high front total (meaning LHS+RHS) Cambers (be it negatives or positives), excessively high front total toe outs, uneven side to side wear profile on front tyres, excessively low front total positive casters etc..

Excessively high rear total toe outs may be a source of issue too.

Without complete front and rear wheel alignment numbers, it is hard to 'speculate or predict' imo.

This post has been edited by zeng: May 7 2025, 03:26 PM

yes. tyre & all mess up d. i found another proper shop with knowledgeable young sifu.

after i mention to him, he test drriving (long) before attach car to machine. just one time job. resolve with satisfaction.

btw it is generic brand not hunter

After hearing your annoyance and then spending a 'longer' time test driving prior putting your vehicle on the alignment machine is an indication of his seriousness in identifying the real roots of misalignment.

It would be nice after test driving that he asks whether your prefer a tighter or looser steering wheel feel at turns like......

But alas our slipshod practitioners here...

Anyway it's nice that you're happy with the outcome and happy motoring with a nicely done wheel alignment job.....

This post has been edited by zeng: May 8 2025, 08:15 AM

Hey guys!

Planning to do tire swap and balancing with 3rd party shops instead of doing it at SC

Any shop to recommend in Klang Valley? I heard good things about

Btw do these shops remove the balancing weight or do they keep on adding more and more as time passes by if required?



Is Kee Hin the go to and king of rims?

balancer weights ideally removed and then run it on the machine.

however i can tell you 90% of the shops the balancers have never been calibrated over the years. Another issue is the weights, some of these cheapo weights will have you chassing weights, keep adding and keep removing and back and forth. My personal rule, if i need to add more then 30g, i end up getting the shop to rotate the tire on the rim. and try again.

one of the wheel balancers that i love are hunter's, normally only found in premium shops. These machines are spot on. Those shops cost more to do the balancing but ive never had an issue, and with the smart weight option, they will rotate the tire on the wheel to minimize the amount of weights used.

Hi Calvin,

I've been patronising Kim Heng SS14/1 for a decade or two for their quality workmanship and friendliness.
About a month ago they did an internal patching (not plug type) on my Avanza rear left nail-punctured tyre.
During tyre balancing, and to my'surprise' they took the trouble to zero out completely the unbalanced "outside 5 grams inside 5 grams combo" out-of-balance tyre on a non-steering rear wheel - a scenario some or most tyre shops would call it quit and consider job done.

Another tyre shop recommended by someone in this thread is Weng Tat along the same road, which I find it's space is tight and crowded.

Tyreplus- SL Car Care Klang is another tyre shop I would recommend.

Hope it helps.

Note: I visited Kee Hin some two years ago for a wheel alignment correction job on my Avanza, not for accelerated tyre wear problem which my Avanza didn't have, but for normal and 'simple' problems of car drifting/pulling to left hand side and steering wheel crooked/off centre to one side.
Instead of resolving them, the two problems had gotten worse immediately after the job.
Hence, beware of it's wheel alignment competency!

This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 20 2025, 06:04 PM

Thanks Scoupe! Haha will look around if the shops that I head to have hunter's machine.. All my life I have actually only gotten the SC to do it for me, until the last time during my last service

I realised that the tires were not swapped and such a waste of time to head back to the SC to get them to swap, re-align and balance it again. The only reason I know it's because my front tires and rear tires are different brand

Thanks Zeng! Will definitely give Kim Heng a try next week..