another reason is becos of posche website maa.
everything become correct when u put reverse gear

so zeng ur way is correct. dont hesitate.

regarding over-understeer. play with tyre pressure on avanza quite strong effect. weight reduction also affecting very much

Is it, on an Avanza?
Ok, will give it a try on my Avanza as I can feel some over-steer right now.
Rear tread depth is low though at around 2 -2.5 mm (at about 100-105k kms usage).
Front tread depth now is about 3 -3.5 mm at about 83k kms usage.
Right Front outer edge wear more than inside edge and Left Front like a difference of say 0.5 mm due to previous mis-alignment I think.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 5 2022, 09:55 AM

the key is pam front wheel correctly. twist steer at shopping mall simen type car park no squeeze noise = just right.
then increase rear wheeel accordingly.

the difference between front vs back is just 10kpa my final results

My last known or pumped tyre pressures some 2 months ago were:
275 kpa Front

255 kpa Rear.

Any suggested tyre pressure values?

before weight reduction F270 R230 superb grippy easy control

after buang 3rd seat & spare taya, tend to understeer so F260 R270 is perfects.
the rest full ori never align wheel since bought

When you buy and install brand new tyres on your car(s), beware of brand new tyres with Tyre Conicity defects leading to vehicle pull to one side, despite 'perfect' wheel alignment works being done.



Source:
Diagnosing Tire Pull
by www.tirerack.com

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 7 2022, 01:38 PM

Wow you both really like really hard pressures.

becos van uses tall side profile

Car without installing Rear Shock Absorber set - See how the Rear Suspension behaves!
21 s.
Have a laugh pl...



This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 7 2022, 11:28 AM

Hi sifus. Please help me out here 😞.
I drive a perodua myvi 2nd gen which has torsion beam at rear. Went to do alignment today and mechanic told me my rear toe in totalling both side to 1 degree. He offered 2 solutions.

1. Change the whole rear axle / torsion beam costing around RM650 Inc installation.

2. (For my understanding) Add shims / washer at 1 of the wheel bearing/ nut hole. To compensate the degree.

Note:
Car has not been in an accident , only minor rear bang/light collision middle not side.

Can any sifu give me some opinions, since toe in will degrade tyre faster right.

Huuh...... Rear Total Toes of 1 degree both sides combined.

Mind sharing the print out of the alignment read outs?

That 's going to eat up the rear tyres really really fast right?

How's your tyre life so far?

Do you experience rear axle instability on rough road surface, especially on turns/curves/cornering?

Yes, replacing the whole rear torsion beam is one option technically.

For RM650 it is probably a used second hand from the kedai potong/scrap yards??

If so the replacement might not be accurate also giving you another set of wrong alignment angles??

If it is new torsion beam from Perodua may be worth trying.

Shimming the rear torsion beam is another option which I personally prefer, problem is I have difficulty in finding a competent and reasonably-priced mechanic in Klang valley to do this kind of job on my Avanza.

Let us know if your mechanic is good and competent on shimming rear torsion beam delivering cun cun good alignment reports.

Here is a link on shimming of rear torsion beam axle on a 2012 Hyundai Elantra with reasonably good results.

https://www.hyundai-forums.com/threads/do-i...7/#post-1984049

This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 16 2022, 09:40 PM

dont see the total toe, see the toe at each side instead, for your case added shim or washer seems to be better choice unless your torsion beam damaged badly then only you change

or you can go to another workshop and have it check, if have you have 1 degree toe in you should experience understeer and excessive tyre wear on the outer thread of the tyres, or the rear of your car will push to one side while driving if the toe is imbalance

If you look through the link I provided 2 posts above on shimming of Rear Torsion Beam/Hub, total shim thickness required by @nightlord in order to shrink its Rear Total Toes to factory specifications would be about 0.40 -0.60 mm on one and/or both sides combined.

Unfortunately the shims or washers thickness I found online is in 1 mm, 2 mm and 3 mm size.......
which imo is not quite suitable for such a typical Rear Torsion Beam shimming job.

Is there metal shims in 0.10 mm or 0.20 mm thickness available in the market, online store or retail shops? Mind intro one or two such outlets?

Replacing with a used rear torsion beam might end up with a rear camber/toe also out of factory specs. IDK.

Replacing with a brand new rear torsion beam would be very pricy. Even then the resulting rear camber and toe might look 'bad' or worse still, also out of specs. So it is a big risk too.

@Nightlord, as suggested above by @amduser do you experience 'understeer', excessive tyre wear?

Rear axle push to left and/or right sides when driving over bumps and potholes?

Car drifts or pulls to one side on straight ahead driving when both hands temporarily off the steering wheel?

With a centred steering wheel the car does not travel straight but move to one side?

Turning left steering effort or smoothness is different from turning right as your steer?

This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 19 2022, 09:59 AM

you can find it online, it is called ring shim, 1mm above is common because of household usage generally require those thickness, there are special kind of ring shim that is made from spring steel and is used for absorber valving tuning

here you can see the size they used
https://www.teknikmotorsport.com/ring-shims/
https://restackor.com/sample-apps/stack-tun...ntals/ring-shim

for those uncommon size you might need to go to those suppliers that specialized in selling gasket and seals, they should have those specialized washer, but they might not willing to sell in small quantity though

here is some ultra thin one you can find from lazada
https://www.lazada.com.my/products/100pcs-s...3364916647.html?

Oh no Bro..... never thought about this option of Ring Shim. Thank you.

The search continues ..... with Ring Shims for Avanza Rear Live axle.....

This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 20 2022, 12:07 PM

Hello all sifus. Sorry for late reply.

I do notice excess wear on outer rear tyres. regarding about understeer, I don't notice it. But I do notice just a little bit of body vibration when getting up to highway speeds. But I already changed the tyres that day cause thread is up.

I went to do second alignment scan at another shop and it shows. Toe: RL0°11' RR0°40' I guess thats almost 1° on total right ? Since 60' is 1°

Heading to do 'shimjob' while replying this.

Thanks all sifus

Hi guys. Done the shim job. Foreman says usually won't tune it to absolute zero. Rear wheel will leave a small margin of toe in.

I can slightly feel that the deceleration rate when off throttle is reduced (able to maintain speed longer while cruising off throttle / less drag) don't know if it's a placebo effect or not.

Steering is more centered, heaviness of turning left/right feels more balance (previously heavier turning right)

Tiny vibration during acceleration has been reduced.

Will do a highway test to confirm testimony.

Hi, yes you are right in suggesting 60' is 1° .

With Rear Toes at +0°11' (at LR) and +0°40' (at RR) i.e Rear Total Toes is +0°51' .

As suggested by @amduser above:
I would be surprised if you do not have outside edge tyre wear as suggested.

The question is:
do you experience more outside wear on Right Rear tyre only,
or Left Rear tyre only,
or both rear tyres wear at the same rate?

I concur you should experience understeer phenomenon when pushing the car to the 'limit' during fast cornering/turning if you know what I mean.

You don't feel it that way. But that maybe you were not pushing hard enough? IDK.

The little bit of body vibration when getting up to highway speeds that you experienced is most probably caused by what @amduser says:

Ok, you have decided on doing a shimming job.

Care to enlighten us how long a time is the job?

Types of shims or washers used, material metal or plastic elastomers?

Thickness of shims used?

Only on one side or both sides of Rear?

How much is your wallet damage?

How many times does the shop dismount and remount the tyres onto the tyre rim hubs, as I read it could take a long time like 2 rounds or more in between setting up on alignment machine?

Would appreciate if you could upload the Before and After Alignment print out to share about the quality and finishing to the shimming job as well as the alignment job.

Do you mind sharing as I am very keen to know the name and location of the shop that do your shimming job for I have been researching/enquiring about it for my Avanza rear axle without success thus far, and also location of alignment shop if they are another different shop.........
assuming you are quite happy with their rear axle shimming and alignment workmanship and pricings.

This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 21 2022, 05:59 PM