@darklight79.. the DF 5x5 will commence come this september.. in the mean time i have to find the true max of my big 3.. mainly my bench.. cuz was doing alot of negative works for my shoulders and incline DB bench.. any thoughts on this? have u done periodization on this b4? or have u done something similiar?

@pizza.. dude.. just a quick question.. when was the last time u deloaded? u're in PR territory now right? for how long? and how long have u been on volume(if u are) i'm getting the feeling from ur description that u are starting to overreach.. so start to plan and take advantage of it.. if this is what's happening that is..

hope dark can comment and contribute to this..

saturday tak boleh? sunday?

Then you haven't seen real hardcore powerlifters. My partner does 315lbs deadlifts 20 times for warm ups. That day pizzaboy was attempting a 1 RM max for that weight, which was used as a warm up for my partner when we 3 were in the same gym. I have a video of my partner doing it. He plays TUT too on the DL with no apparent problems and he's a bodybuilder, not a powerlifter.

.............

Madcow himself pm'ed me the last time about the importance of NOT doing the Dual Factor unless you're seriously seriously advanced because the rate of progression is too slow. It is for extremely advanced lifters. You do know you can still switch things up around in the SF Madcow to keep milking the gains right? (eg. fukking with the program).

I've done periodization with DC and HIT for 2-3 weeks. That's it.

This post has been edited by darklight79: Jul 20 2007, 12:42 PM

lol.. i AM fukking with the programme.. albeit i know what i'm doing.. but u can't really switch the big 3.. which is y i set the DF so far in september.. cuz at the rate i'm going, don't know how long i can last on 5lbs a week.. squats are really getting hard at 275.. i need a spotter behind me just to feel safe, even then my body shakes like a tremor on my way up.. i really do not wish to start using a belt till i hit at least 3 plates.. on deads i'm already starting to use the belt on and off for my top set with straps..

i'd like to progress further all natural and hopefully without much help from equipments..

i'm definitely not an advanced lifter.. but according to the progression rate of the DF, i could slap on 25lbs of PR by 9-10 weeks.. which is almost equivalant to the SF.. but i feel that i don't get enough work done(i've been on the SF principle for around a year and half).. maybe i need more volume.. which is why i am considering the DF..

what would be ur criteria if u really wanted to step into the DF?

Lol... well, i stopped deadlifting at 505 pounds for 5 reps. I'm squatting around 315 for 12-15 reps or so on a good day but i know i can probably go heavier if i try it in the powerlifting rep range but even then Madcow still suggested against going for the dual factor. Go figure.

And no, that rate of progression you'd like from the DF is still too slow for a newbie. Remember, if you trainee has been working out for even 3 years, he will still be considered a newbie.

And sorry you're wrong, Madcow told me you can even switch with the big three. Squats replace with leg presses, bench replaced with incline bench or dips, rows replaced with pull ups, etc. It's even stated by Glenn Pendlay in one of his articles about the 5 x 5. You need to do more research.

i totally understand what u're trying to say.. haha!

i think i was unclear of my goals from the beginning.. i want to concentrate on the BIG 3 and get stronger on it.. i really want to bring up my numbers on these.. and i did consider about using the DF or not based on the progression rate.. perhaps i'll look into something else.. westside i feel is still far away from me as i'm not lifting anything above 400s..

any recommendations?

as of now this is what i do when i get in the gym..

day 1
squats 5x5-ramped till top set(PR day)
incline DB-negative works 4x8............... i've started to work on my bench again this week.. 5x5-ramped
rows 5x5-ramped
cable lat pulldowns
decline weighted situps with 25,35lbs plate

day 2
light squats/overhead squats/front squats/leg presses.. depends on how i feel..
military 5x5-ramped
deads 5x5-ramped(PR day)
cable lat pulldowns(depends on feel)
decline weighted situps with 25,35lbs plate

day 3
GHR/hammy work i.e. RDL/speed squats or check form(lighter weight)
incline DB-negative works 4x8............... or some pushing variant
power cleans
hypers
curls
lying tri extensions
decline weighted situps with 25,35lbs plate (if i feel like it)

what do u think?

Looks ok. But i don't understand incline db negative works? Wazzat?

oh.. the negatives.. something i tried out to strengthen the negative part of the bench.. like take 4-5 seconds to lower the DB and shoot up/get spotter to lift it up.. and repeat.. basically to get used to the descending part of the lift.. and get stronger on that part to handle more weight..

You mean you're only doing the negative phase for this exercise or you're emphasizing on the negatives?

Oh man.. Now I'm the puny ass who lift light stuff

Oh well.. this is what I get for a casual lifter

ok, my bad . basically i meant our body may be spoilt by gaining 10kg and then losing 10kg.

emphasizing on the negative phase..

i read from a book about HIT by Mike Mentzer that overall strenght come from dynamic, negative and static strenght.



anybody try this before?

This post has been edited by T+1: Jul 20 2007, 02:26 PM

it is actually true.. hence what i'm doing now on my bench.. do u have a link for it? it would be a great read i'm sure...

i read a explanation about this before. our strength is limited by our mind (CNS) which control how many % of muscle fiber recruitment. it is due to inhibition signal by our brain to prevent injury. if we can lift a weight, our brain will reduce the inhibition signal.
so by training, we can improve CNS efficiency.

in ur example, although the guy was cutting, he still has the muscle memory for the weight.



based on this, i find that power movement is effective to 'cheat' the brain for heavier weight to increase the inhibition signal threshold

u got that right.. mind over matter!

i read the book in bookstore, haha

Which is precisely why elite athletes are born, not made. They are born with the natural affinity to recruit more muscle fibers compared to normal people.
And as for the muscle memory thing, yea, that is why if an athlete takes a layoff for 4 years, and starts back again, it would take him less than half the time to reach his previous strength level compared to a newbie trainee.

Nope, sorry, you still got that wrong. This is another element of advantage that born elite athletes have over the average human being apart from genetics. They have the higher ability in their CNS to RECRUIT more muscle fibers compared to the norm. They are born with better neural efficiency compared to the norm. It ain't kung fu.

i was agreeing to pizza's post which T+1 quoted.. stop jumping on me..

*pounces on carl, grabs him in deadlock and slams his head on concrete pavement repeatedly till his skull cracks and blood plus brain matter starts spraying everywhere and seeps deep into the cracks of the pavement till the stains last for many many years till they finally can wash it away*