Err yes.

I already know the dividend was credited to my account early this morning. I was talking about buying additional units this morning (also very early) in my earlier post.

Since ASNB branches opened very early, around 8:15 a.m., you would expect people begin selling units around then, so I snapped up some (500 units) at around 8:33.

My dividend is only around 140-150 units (small fish here). From the online records, it came in at around 01:45 this morning.

Thanks for the info anyway.

This post has been edited by TOS: Sep 1 2020, 09:12 PM

yes, of course you can withdraw online, but 500 units easily snapped up. Plus, think about it, nobody would wake up at 7 o'clock just to sell 500 units when you can do so later in the morning or in the afternoon.

And chances are those who sell are old ah ma, ah gong who don't really know how to use myASNB/app or don't have so much time spamming units everyday. Young people already fishing 24/7, who cares to sell?

So, the major showdown will happen when branches start to open and the aunties/uncles who queued start to enter the branch and start to sell.

In a world starved of units, you need some logical deductions/rational thinking to survive.

At least that logic serves me well. Maybe I am thinking too much.

This post has been edited by TOS: Sep 2 2020, 11:19 AM

myASNB portal. Either online or app.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/g...porate-malaysia

Something to take note of.

While the first 2 are correct, I am afraid the last statement on liquidity is not true. Whereas you can cash out units easily into cash, you can't go the opposite way. The pool for non-bumi is thus VERY illiquid (not sure for bum side). Many people hold on to the units, not wanting to sell at all.

Haha. If you talk about financial liquidity then yes, it's cashable in a matter of seconds. But if you talk about liquidity of market, then no. Can sell easily, but almost impossible to buy. When talk about liquidity of market, it's a 2-way transaction (bought and sold easily and quickly).

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/basic...7/liquidity.asp

So, liquidity can mean different things. You are talking how easy it's to convert to cash, while I am talking about how easy it is to buy and sell units. But technically, this is not really a market between buyers and sellers since ASNB is the middleman and there is a restriction on units available. Yet, indirectly the buyer and seller pool can influence the amount of outstanding units at any given moment, so I guess I can still apply market liquidity to ASNB FP funds.

There are clearly business motives behind the VP bundles, for both ASNB and the banks which offer the service. Online sales charge is only 2% for VP funds, compared to OTC's 5%.

They bundle FP in because ASNB wants to lure customer to switch from FP to VP eventually. Sooner rather than later, it's us investors who have to bear the risk of market rise and fall. Banks on the other hand can earn more handsome commission from VP sales as the profit margin is higher and explicitly mentioned compared to back-end charges for FP funds sold through banks.

So, they share the same goal and thus can collaborate together to make the business work. Contrary to some members who think the VP funds are all but useless. I can point out that ASNB Sara 1 deserves some mention among all VP funds.

My mom purchased it as a yellow bank (largest market cap in M'sia ) bundled it with 8.88% FD, and she signed up anyway. (I would later realize that it's a stupid move). The charges were 5% back then. But the VP actually returns me around 5% since around 2 years ago when the purchase was first made.

High holdings in bonds (close to 60%)and bonds have attracted foreign capital and its outflow is usually much lighter than equities. It gives a stability close to that of typical FP funds and its risk profile is better adjusted than that of typical FP funds (FP funds usually have 70% in blue chips and 30% in bonds and pay 5% which is not sustainable, but Sara I have 60% in bonds and the rest in blue chips and pay around 4-5%, which is expected).

But there are other better UTs/investment vehicles out there without 2% sales charge (or lower) and can deliver better than 5%, so I have diversified the holdings since then.

This post has been edited by TOS: Sep 30 2020, 09:52 AM

Did they every announce dividend late at night? I thought usually 4pm already announced all over the place, yes?

One has to say, they have done a remarkable job, despite the turbulence. The annual report for ASM3 would be interesting.

Just for the records, annual report for ASM 2 Wawasan will be available from 31st of Oct 2020 on ASNB's official website.

Still waiting for EPF's 2019 annual report. What is parliament doing? Those naughty kids... 2020 is about to come to an end. Approving an annual report also so difficult?

1 is because of 2 reasons:

a. The forex loss consist of both realized and unrealized portion in the P&L statement, but only consists of the realized portion in the source of distributable income statement. Total realized and unrealized loss is 11,490,445 MYR but the realized portion is only 6,839,002 MYR. Since the unrealized part is just an accounting gimmick and not really a cash-related expense, the difference between the 2 numbers must be distributed as cash.

b. Of course, "past realized earnings" as usual. It seems like ASNB must have made a lot of realized earnings in the past!

For this year, the portion of past year reserves distributed is only 3.4% of the total distribution amount whereas for last year, the past reserves account for 17.8% of the total distribution amount. The wild fluctuations here deserve some attention.

Those interested in understanding the discrepancy can do the following:

1. Open 2 tabs in your browser with both tabs showing the same ASW annual report document.
2. On one tab, scroll to page 21 (of PDF document, actual page is page 17), showing the income portion and its breakdown.
3. On the other tab, scroll to page 30 (of PDF document, actual page is page 26), showing the source of distribution breakdown.
4. Now compare the two different views and you will see how the discrepancy arises.

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 1 2020, 10:44 AM

As for 2., is there any specific reason why PNB wants to hold units in the fund? Sounds funny they manage it and they invest in it at the same time. Is this something similar to why REIT managers hold units in their managed REITs, i.e. to align unit holders and fund manager's interest?

But if staff is bumi and seller is non-bumi, this transaction still won't work, right?

Even if both sellers and buyers are bumi, I don't recall bumi having issue with getting ASNB units. Most people who complaint and rant here are the non-bumis who keep piling cash to get 4% returns.

As for the situation where both staff and seller are non-bumis. Well, I don't recall seeing any non-bumi officials sitting in counters in ASNB branch offices.

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/busines...e-amid-pandemic

Annual Report of ASM 3 for financial year ended 30 September 2020 can be accessed at ASNB's website: www.asnb.com.my
starting from 30 November 2020.

Source: ASNB email to ASM 3 Unitholders

They should float the unit price to end this black market and irrational demand. The fact that unit price is fixed and risk is perceived as similar to FD rate means the demand will keep coming until post-"commission/sales charge to black market sellers" come down to FD rate. Only when unit price floats can the market sees there is such a thing called "risk".

Completely anticipated by economics theory decades-old, yet no one dare to make any changes.

Anyway, the grass is greener out there. Closer to home, S-REITs, S-banks and SG blue chips pay me 6-10% p.a. No need to rob for units everyday. Can buy blue-chip stocks anytime, save the hassle.

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 26 2020, 10:20 PM

The thing is, the risk pricing is totally wrong. Anyone with finance background will know why. Underlying the FP funds are mostly blue chip stocks. Yet the market price it as safe as FD, you can see it from members here. (At least from non-bumi side, since their pricing comes form the demand for units and hence its expected return.)

It is PNB and ASNB who has to bear all the risk for you. I personally would demand a higher return than FD for that kind of risk. The market is pricing it wrongly. One way to let them (the non-bumis who keep piling on FP units) know is to float the unit price.

Once float, the non-bumis will start to sell. Because they see price fluctuate. (Oh, not safe anymore. Not FD-like.)

Then the demand and supply would normalize.

For all you know, even among the non-bumis, regarding this FP as safe as FD is really a stupid investment mistake, for their underlying assets are totally different. It's because the price is not floating, that tricks even the most savvy non-bumi investors into thinking that this product is "as safe as FD".

As for killing PNB. Yes, for sure, they need to educate investors. They don't have to do it hastily. Education takes time. But sooner or later they will have to do it. There is too much risk to bear for the fund managers themselves. See Maybank, TNB stocks prices on KLSE like rollar coaster and the FP units still stay at 1 ringgit per unit? Only idiots will believe in it.

It's time for us investors to bear our own risk. Enough education should have been given to us investors. If the fund managers don't perform well, we reduce our holdings and look for others or invest ourselves. But the price has to float to reflect the underlying risk. That's rule of thumb in the finance world. There is only one risk-free rate. One price exactly for one kind of asset. You can never say a chicken is a cow.

Just my 2 cents. I know China already move away from FP funds, as reported by Bloomberg years ago (Will edit this post if I can find the article by Ren Shuli I think, the famed Bloomberg columnist).

EDIT: Can't find the actual article. But this one from Caixin illustrates the case. https://www.caixinglobal.com/2019-09-11/in-...-101461436.html

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 28 2020, 03:40 PM

You bear risk, so at some point you lose money, can be 5-10% or even worse 20-50%. But if you got the right timing and with a bit of knowledge, you can recover all capital plus earnings of 5-10%. This is investment.

When I started in SGX back in April/May lost about 5% at one point, stay put, and now sitting at 11.5%, in about 6-7 months time. But this pandemic is a one-off event. Not always happen, so I am considered lucky.

Anyway, this pricing is efficient and correct. Unlike the ASNB FP ones. Shares drop 20-30% yet units are still priced at 1 ringgit. You can imagine how much risk the managers have to bear. If they dare to sell you at 1 ringgit per unit even though the actual price is not, they must be certain enough to make up for the lost at a later time.

EDIT: For any kind of non-risk free investment, you always bear risk of losing your capital. The only capital-protected investment is your FD and saving accounts, which are insured by PIDM. But because they have low risk, they give low returns. Risk and returns always come together.

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 27 2020, 12:36 PM

Mind sharing the names of those "blue-cheats"? All from Malaysia?



As for low luck so go for ASN FP. You are just lucky that ASNB/PNB bear all the risk for you. If they transfer these risks to you, you will be equally "unlucky". In the world of finance, there is no such thing as luck, but risk. ASNB can't bear all the risk forever. Some day, at some point in time, you need to learn to bear the risk yourself.

You should keep your fingers crossed that PNB's reserve are huge enough to continue supporting dividends (which I don't think so, as their returns are diminishing over the years and they are aggressively promoting VP funds in recent years). The proportion of past reserves drawn down to top-up the dividend paid to unitholders actually vary from year-to-year. It's around 20-30% last year for the FP funds, but 2-5% (should be low to mid single digit) for the FP funds this year, clearly illustrating the wild fluctuations of the underlying asset's return.

And they have drawn down reserves for years, not sure when is the last time they withhold earnings to add back into reserves. In any case, this is not a healthy sign.

Pricing for units can be like any other mutual funds. Pay dividend or not, it's the fund's choice. As long as total return is what one expects, that's fine. If calculations are to be made simpler, there is no need for dividends. So, fluctuation in daily NAV will illustrate the return over the long run. Key point here is, still, float the units to reflect the market risk.

Honestly, if investing is all about putting money into ASNB FP and one expects to get 4-6% p.a. return plus thinking risk is FD-like, ASNB and PNB has failed in educating its investors. Need to inform Zeti before it's too late...

I will just put it here and leave it as it is. My apologies for confusions.

This post has been edited by TOS: Nov 28 2020, 09:32 AM